Coral Import ban ?

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

There was a brief discussion during the last meeting about possible coral importation ban in the future. Fuji was one of the first countries to consider this (actually, Florida already has a ban). I was wondering if anybody knows what the status of the coral and LR importing from Fuji.

Worst comes to worst, we will have to start farming, caring and sharing the corals that we have left.

Thanks.

- Victor.

[ 29 January 2002: Message edited by: reefburnaby ]</p>

[George]

There won't be any "ban" in the near future. It's just a CITES *recommendation* because Fiji was in a political chaos and dind't communicate with CITES.
Read it here :
Fiji situation (http://www.reefs.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=35&t=000067&p=)
BTW: If anyone in a hurry, you can just read the first few posts and last few. Middle part is just another flame war.

Regards,
George

[naesco]

CITES exists to protect endangered species which include some coral and fish.
The Government of Fiji failed to comply with the result that imports from Fiji are prohibited or have been threatened with prohibition (don't know.)
It is pretty certain that in the near term unless some things are done to improve how our industry operates, either total bans or bans on some species will ocurr.
Luckily we can trade frags amongst us and ,there is a heightened interest in captive raised fish as well.

[StirCrazy]

I thought (from what I have been reading) that CITES has no ofical power to ban anything .. that in fact that they can only encourage people not to import from the non compliant places. what this says to me is that if people want stuff from a place that CITES has recomend be banned.. they will still get it.

Steve

[naesco]

Try to cross the border with anything on the CITES list. No way.
The items on the list are endangered species.
I presume they have the power to advise of non-compliance with the resulting ban by those nations who support the CITES 'protocol'.
Good thing, eh. Some people will sell their soul for money>

[Axial Corillite]

So as of today Fiji is gone for any CITES species. CITES does have authority in that they can say if a CITES protected species comes into Canada or not. And of course no supplier is going to bring anything into Canada if its just going to be seized at the border. This from Tim at Sea Care and he's freinds with a head honcho at CITES.
Sucks to be Walt Smith.

[StirCrazy]

is there a list of what is concidered a "CITES species"

Steve

[Axial Corillite]

CITES (http://www.cites.org/eng/disc/species.shtml)

[StirCrazy]

there lists are pretty small.. I can only find like 6 coarls that are concidered "CITES species".
does this mean any other coarls can still come in? or are they recomending a blanket ban? from what it looks like they are only recomending the ban because fuji didn't get there paper work done in time. kinda like being shot for turning in your home work late. especialy sence fujiexplained the problems with the goverment upheavle and there laws that have to be changed befor they can adopt the CITES protocals. hell they even asked for a extension till june of this year to get things in order but oh well..
looks like I will have to get Jakarda rock if we can't get fiji anymore.. damn that was some nice looking rock.

Steve

[Delphinus]

I can only find like 6 coarls that are concidered "CITES species".

A species can be listed as Appendix I, II, or III. In some cases entire groups can be listed (the example on the CITES webpage lists whales and orchids as examples, among others).

Appendix I is a list of species "immediately threatened with extinction" (or some such wording). Essentially, anything listed as Appendix I, forget it, there is no way for it to legally cross a border, save for very exceptional circumstances where specialized permits might be optained (research perhaps, I don't know). Paphiopedilum sp. orchids, for example, are App. I, and there is no way to cross a border with one of these plants, or even a piece of the plant, or any seeds. I'm not certain about seedlings in flasks but you get the general idea.

Appendix II are species that are not immediately threatened with extinction "but may become so unless trade is closely controlled."

Go to the Fauna species database lookup page (http://www.cites.org/eng/resources/fauna.shtml) and enter in some coral species names. When I did it just now, all the things I came up with had a hit in the database as App. II. (Trust me there are more than 6 species listed altogether! images/smiles/icon_razz.gif )

As I understand it, most (if not all) stony corals are listed as either App. I or II. Live rock and live sand are listed somewhere too (I couldn't find any listings in the 30 seconds I alloted myself to find them, but we can safely trust that they are listed).

Tridacnid clams are listed as Appendix II.

I have heard (but have not independently confirmed) that a lot of the soft corals we see in the trade/hobby are not listed.

Surprisingly, the Pacific host anemone species are NOT listed.

I have no idea about fish species. I imagine that some are listed, while others possibly not so.

It doesn't matter whether the individual specimens were captive-propagated, or wild-collected. All that matters is that its species name is in the database or not.


does this mean any other coarls can still come in?

While being completely ignorant of the specific Fiji situation, here is what the general import process goes like.

- Importer (here) obtains any relevant import permits
- Importer contacts exporter (there) with purchase order
- Exporter obtains CITES export permits issued in country of origin, and any other governmental permits required by both countries (for example if it were plants the government of Canada requires an inspection by the government of the exporting country to issue a "phytosanitary certificate" documenting that the plants are "certified nematode free", or something like that).
- Exporter puts goods on a plane
- Goods arrive in new country
- Importer clears goods through customs, showing all paperwork issued in both countries, lists documenting all the species in transit, etc. etc. Customs may require an inspection of the goods to see if they match the paperwork details, etc. etc.

It is at this last step where if anything is not copesetic, that the goods be seized and likely destroyed. That's if the importer is lucky! If customs beleives that the importer was trying to "pull a fast one by them" and trying to illegally sneak something in, then the importer is going to be in a world of hurt (you can face several thousands of dollars in fines and I've even heard, up to 15 years in prison).

So, my guess is with Fiji, is that CITES export permits can no longer be obtained in that country.

So my answer to your question is, probably "yes," seeing as there probably are indeed a handful of species that do not require CITES export permits. But there probably isn't much left, seeing as most things are CITES one way or the other. Also, customs officers are going to know about the Fiji situation, so if they see anything coming out of that country, you know it's a safe bet they are going to be looking at those shipments with very diligent scrutiny. Any professional importer is probably going to recognize this too, and (my guess is) just decide that it's not worth the bother, and instead import from somewhere else. So the caveat to my "yes" is "... but probably not, realistically."

[ 07 February 2002: Message edited by: delphinus ]</p>

[TimT]

Hi Everyone,

Just thought I would clear the air on what is happening with Fiji.

The CITES secratariat in Geneva has decided that it will recommend banning trade in CITES animals unless the exporting country has a sustainable management plan in place. This recommendation was to take effect January 14th. Germany immediately followed recommendation and implemented a ban.

Why is Fiji banned you may ask. Fiji was in process of creating the necessary CITES legislation and it was included in another bill. There was a fair amount of debate about some other things in the bill so it was not promptly passed. In the meantime, George Speight gets all upset about losing a very lucrative Mahogany contract and overthrows the government. Just a few months ago a new government was elected. They are concentrating on running the country instead of worrying about CITES paperwork. They will be working toward extracting the various CITES issues and then passing that bill. This will probably happen within 6 months. How long it will take Canada to implement trade again I do not know.

All stony corals are CITES app II, this includes live rock and the pieces of rock that leathers, mushrooms etc are on. All clams are CITES app II. Inverts and fish are not listed except for the leafy sea dragon. But they run about 10K US per fish.

As of yesterday afternoon Fiji is suspended. No shipments of CITES listed animals will be allowed into the country. PERIOD. The US will be following with a ban of there own fairly soon.

The days of cheap Fiji rock are now over. Expect live rock prices to increase as demand outstrips supply and the higher freight rates take their toll. FYI the freight rate from Fiji to Vancouver direct is 3.00USD/KG, the rate from Bali to Vancouver direct is 4.79USD/kg. So see for yourselves, Jakarta or Bali rock will not be as cheap as Fiji.

Hope this clears up any confusion.

If you want to read more here are some links
http://www.cites.org/eng/decis/11/15-21.shtml
and
http://www.cites.org/eng/notifs/2002/003.shtml


Sincerely,
Tim

[SuperFudge]

Thanks for the info Tim.

I guess we could assume this has been along time coming....so could likewise be said for a reversal of this ban?

Marc.

[SuperFudge]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Clam man:
How long it will take Canada to implement trade again I do not know.

Sincerely,
Tim<hr></blockquote>


Sorry,didnt see that....

Marc.