60g planning Journal

[SeaSerpant]

Please bear with me for i will not start the actual build till i get the money.

Here i go.

Ok i'm going to start a 60g SW aquarium and this is going to be my first. Since i'm only 13 i need to find a good place for a job. This weekend hopefully i will get the 60g tank and sump. When i do i will post some pics. I will be in dire need at help at some points.

Here is my plan.

Fish/invertebrates

McCosker's Flasher Wrasse
Longnosed Hawkfish
Mandarin Goby
Clownfish
Magenta Dottyback
Lawnmower Blenny
Harlequin Starfish

CUC (what kind should i get that will do all the jobs)

Corals

Clam
Zoanthids
Coco Worm
Tube Worms
Orange Cup Coral
Branching Hammer
Frogspawn
Pulsing Xenia
Orange Ricordea Mushroom
Orange Ball Anemone

I won't add them all to the tank at one time I'll add them over a span of a few weeks. Ok i have need to know the supplies and preferences to what brand you like.

70g skimmer

Pump(for flow)

Pump(for sump)

Salt

Heater

RO/DI

Anything i missed

Since i don't know what else i need you can fill that in for me.

[jasond]

I would suggest holding off on the Mandarin and star, they WILL starve in a new setup. There is plenty of info on here as well as reefcentral on both, try to do as much reading as you can.

Otherwise goodluck and dont forget to post pics!

Jason

[SeaSerpant]

Oh i am going to read as much as i can. For the Mandarin and starfish, i have been told before that they will starve in a new tank. I guess i'll add them a few months after.

[SeaSerpant]

Time for some pics. (i still need help on the first post.)
Ok this is the plan for my stand

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/Aquariumzandstand2bestshot.jpg


http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/Aquariumzandstandtop.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/AquariumzandstandRight.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/AquariumzandstandBackLeftbetterangl.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/AquariumzandstandBack.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/Aquariumzandstand.jpg

These are only the bones so don't worry. the smaller tank is a FW tank and the bigger one is going to be the SW tank. Any help?

[michika]

Tank design is good start!

As for the star and mandarin consider waiting at least 9-12 months and ensuring you have the proper conditions first.

Your list is missing lighting, and details on how you want to return the water from your sump to your display.

For clean up crew there are lots of ways to go. Some people like hermits, others like snails, some like a combination of both. You can also consider shrimp, fireshrimp, cleaner shrimp, peppermint shrim, etc. There are other inverts you can consider too, urchins, conches, cowries, etc. but do your research because some of them aren't appropriate for your 60g.

[SeaSerpant]

Lighting i didn't put down because i already know what kind i need/want. Oh i think i already found the pump. i'm going to get it from the guy i'm going to buy the tanks from. He's giving it to me for 40$ so that will help me save a few dollars. (still pending on first questions). I'll ask for peoples opinion on what kind of fish that they would want and would work in a 60g tank so i can check them out and see if i like them to.

Ok i need some opinions on what you guys would want and what would work, for fish and corals, in a 60g tank?

[SeaSerpant]

I got my aquariums and a maxi-jet 1200, return pump and lights. I'll post the pics later because my dad is gone and the memory is full.

[Myka]

What kind of pump and lights did you buy? You'll probably need another Maxi-Jet 1200. Consider using the Sure-Flow Upgrade kit on at least one Maxi-Jet ($20). In fact, you may be ok with just one MJ1200 with the upgrade kit. One of the purposes of the powerheads is to keep detritus suspended in the water so your filters/protein skimmer can remove it.

You said a 70g protein skimmer, so I'm assuming you're using a sump that will hold about 10 gallons? Be sure that you don't overfill the sump. When you unplug the pump or the power goes off and the water in all the plumbing flows down to the sump it will overflow if you fill the sump too full. How are you plumbing the tank? Overflows or no overflows?

For a protein skimmer I would go with a Euro Reef RS100 ($300) if you can afford it. Don't skimp on a skimmer, it will save your butt when you make mistakes (and you will). The only one that I would suggest that is cheaper would be an AquaC Remora Pro ($265), but the RS100 isn't much more money, but it is much more effective. If you're feeling rich go for a Deltec, and if you win the lottery get a Bubble King! :D Don't waste your money on any of the cheaper protein skimmers...they aren't worth the box they are packaged in.

I use Instant Ocean salt. You have to add calcium, and may need to add magnesium to your waterchange water to get the levels right before you even put it in your tank, but you don't have to worry about that until you start to get corals. I find it's cheaper to use IO and use some additives than it is to buy the more expensive salts that don't need to be added to.

You didn't mention any test kits. I would suggest either Elos or Salifert. I don't believe any other brand is worth spending money on. You'll need pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate test kits to start. Once you want to start adding corals you'll need calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium kits. They have expiry dates though, so don't buy them too far in advance.

You'll also need the additives once you add corals. I use Kent Liquid Calcium to keep my calcium around 415-430 ppm, SeaChem Reef Buffer to keep my alkalinity around 8-9 dKH, and regular ole epsom salts to keep my magnesium around 1350-1400 ppm.

I would highly suggest you buy your own RO/DI unit. I have an AquaFX Barracuda 4 stage RO/DI (~$180) that I really like. Be sure to buy a TDS meter (~$30) at the same time as you'll need it to monitor when to change your cartridges. Now that I have an RO/DI unit I'm kicking myself in the butt for not buying one 10 years ago. I used to use tap water 10 years ago and had algae from hell, but I didn't know any better. In the more recent years I have bought RO water from grocery stores, and the algae was substantially minimized, but now that I have my own RO/DI unit my algae problems are a thing of the past. Plus I don't have to pack 5 gallon jugs to and from the grocery store anymore!!! WOO HOO!

For heaters, I like to use two smaller heaters so that if one gets stuck on (it happens more often than you may realise) it won't cook your tank. Been there, done that, not fun. Lost my whole tank. Where is your tank located? I find if it's in a normal room temperature area then 3w per gallon is enough (in which case two 100w heaters should suffice), if it's in a cold basement then you may need 5w per gallon. I have both Visitherm and Ebo Jager heaters. Although I like both, I prefer the Visitherm as it's easier to adjust and the suction cups seem to last longer.

I've never seen an Orange Ball Anemone for sale, maybe others have...? I also agree to wait at least 9-12 months before you add the Mandarin or the starfish. I also suggest that you add a refugium with chaeto well in advance of adding the Mandarin to help supply food for it. A Lawnmower blenny may starve in a tank that size, but you are new to saltwater so you may have algae problems which would benefit the blenny, but not your corals! LOL Clownfish do better in pairs...what species are you thinking of? I hope you got MH lighting if you want to keep that clam. As mentioned, shrimp are an excellent addition...I really like Peppermints (some have a liking to eat small aiptasia) and Cleaners. They help to keep the sand and live rock clean. I'm not a fan of hermits because they kill snails when they're hungry and to steal their shells. I love Orange Lip Conches for keeping the sand clean and stirred instead of cukes. The conch would be a better choice for your size of tank anyway.

Get your hands on some Stomatella snails if you can find some...they are awesome algae eaters and breed in your tank so they'll keep their population even with the amount of algae your tank is producing. Astraea snails are great too. I don't like Turbos or Trochus as they get awfully big and knock corals over. Nassarius and Cerith snails are good as well. Don't follow the one snail/hermit per gallon rule...that's too much and many will die of starvation. Add them a few at a time until you find the right number.

I use www.jlaquatics.com for my equipment and supplies. They have great prices, and will beat any other price in Canada. They have free shipping via UPS on orders over $200.

Good luck and keep us posted! :)

[SeaSerpant]

Pictures of the main tank
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2670.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2671.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2681.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2680.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2681.jpg
Overflow
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2672.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2673.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2674.jpg
Sump
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2675.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2676.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2677.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2678.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2679.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2680.jpg

I need to make a cover without cutting the sides. how would you suggest i do that.

[SeaSerpant]

flow pump
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2683.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2684.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2685.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2686.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2687.jpg
Visi-therm 300w heater
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2688.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2690.jpg
Pump
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2696.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2700.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2701.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2692.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2693.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/SeaSerpant/IMG_2691.jpg

[SeaSerpant]

I just cleaned out the tank of the junk in it but still need to wash it. i'm 60$ in dept to my dad so i'll be out of action for the next while. Tomorrow i'm going to call a glass company and see if they can cut the top of my main tank because the back and two sides are raise a few inches above everything else:biggrin: . When i get it cut and it's back to my house i'll clean it and leak check it and put it into my teeny tiny room. When and if i get a job i'll make some huge process but i can't find a place that will hire 13yo:sad:. right now instead of a stand i'll put the main tank on top of the sump because that was how they did it in the shop. It should be sturdy enough for that.

If you have any advice or comments i would very much appreciate that. I want to know your guys preferences to corals,fish and CUC. I'll be waiting here.

thanks
SeaSerpant

[mark]

right now instead of a stand i'll put the main tank on top of the sump because that was how they did it in the shop. It should be sturdy enough for that.


sure about this?

[SeaSerpant]

what do you mean?

[dsaundry]

For now the only advise is to do what my son is doing now with his reef tank. He is following my advise and using the K.I.S.S. {Keep It Simple Silly} procedure for now. You have some of your basics and if you are patient you will have a nice system. Keep to taking it slow and budget yourself to a bit here and there and build it up slowly. Dont try to stock it initially with high end corals or fish. Get good advise on really hardy fish and corals and start there. Check around but dont try to rush the set up. You have your tank and some equipment but in my opinion once you get your water mixed up, The only thing I would put in it to start is just some live rock, semi-cured or full cured, whatever you can get at a good price. Then cycle the tank for about 4-6 weeks and maybe add a couple of chromis to cycle it some more. Be patient, Listen to other reefers and check out a few reef forums. Lots out there, and lots of advise on all of them. Its nice to see young people getting into this hobby. Although it can be very frustrating at times, it is one of the most relaxing and fun hobbies there is. :biggrin:

[sharuq1]

I think he means don't fill it with water while it is sitting on the sump 'cus it will bust. Empty it might be ok for a while if you are very careful.

[Murminator]

I dunno if I would trust that pond pump alot of things like that have non stainless steel screws and will rust in saltwater make sure it is safe for salt water

[SeaSerpant]

The person before me had used it in a saltwater tank as back up and there were no ill effects. Ok. I need advice on hardy fish and corals good for starters.

[Skimmer Juice]

If you want shrimp, do not get a longnose hawkfish.

[SeaSerpant]

thanks for the advice :)

[SeaSerpant]

i finally got around to measuring the tanks. their both the same so here it is.
Length: 48"
Height: 16.5"
Width: 20"
Thickness of glass: 2cm

Now do you know if it would be able to support the tank. The back and sides are taller than the rest on both tanks and i'm going to get them cut. Again any suggestions:biggrin:

[SeaSerpant]

bump

[Myka]

The weight of the full aquarium will squash the sump, do not place it on top of the sump. Put it on a stand that the sump can fit inside. You may want to consider getting a smaller sump so you don't have get such a big skimmer, and also so it will fit into a standard stand.

[SeaSerpant]

i don't mind the big sump because i want the least trouble as possible and when i build the stand i don't mind the extra edge:biggrin:

[SeaSerpant]

Ok for my list of supplies for my aquarium i N-need/H-have

N-Euro Reef RS100

N-AquaFX Barracuda 4 stage RO/DI

N-TDS meter

N-Maxi-Jet 1200

N-Lights

N-Kent Liquid Calcium

N-SeaChem Reef Buffer

N-Epsom Salt

H-Visitherm 200w Heater

H-SunSun Fountain Pump

H-Maxi-Jet 1200

Anything i'm missing? For my sump the dimensions are 48x20x16.5. I want the biggest refugium possible so how far should the bubble trap be from the edges and all that?

[SeaSerpant]

bump

[VFX]

I'd recommend getting another heater & connect both heaters to something like this...

http://www.eurorep.net/habistat/twin.jpg

I wouldn't want to rely on just one heater & wouldn't rely on the heater's own thermostat.

.

[SeaSerpant]

where would i get one of those?

[SeaSerpant]

bump

[Marlin65]

They are about $60.00 you don't have to get exactly that kind.
It just controls your heaters more accurately.
You can add it later after you start to have some money invested in your live stock.
Cycle your tank first.:wink:
In your list you have your salt listed as Epsom salt.:question:
Make sure to use proper reef salt. You will have to buy this from your LFS.
PS two heaters are better than one incase one fails.

[SeaSerpant]

epsom salt for magnesium

[SeaSerpant]

Lets say i buy everything at j and l aquatics these are the prices

Euro Reef RS135-339.95

AquaFX Barracuda 4 stage RO/DI 100 GPD-257.95

TDS meter-what does it do?
Algae Free Sure Flow 1600 Maxi-Jet Upgrade Kit-19.95

Maxi-Jet 1200-26.95

Sunlight Supply 48" New Wave T5 Fixture 4-Bulb, 4 x 54W-234.95

Kent Marine Liquid Calcium Additive 64 oz.-26.95

SeaChem Reef Buffer Additive 500 Gram-9.95

(not from jl) Live Rock-315

Livestock:

CUC 70 - 90 Gallons-199.95

Black Percula Clown x2-34.95

Royal Dottyback x2-11.45

Lawnmower Blenny-14.95

Cleaner Wrasse-8.45

Blue Hippo Tang-35.45

Firefish Goby-12.95

Flame Angel-43.45

Pumping Xenia-32.95

Hawaiian Feather Duster-9.95

TOTAL-1800$
Anything missing or wrong with this list?(remember the livestock will be added at different times.)

[tang daddy]

someone is selling a rs135 on buy and sell!

oops sorry didn't realize you were in edmonton until after I posted too bad you werent in van cause I got a modded 1200 also for the rodi why don't you purchase a aquasafe rodi maximus off ebay they're 150 + 50 for the filters and then youre set for the next 5 years lol.

[SeaSerpant]

bump

[mr_alberta]

I agree with tang daddy regardging the RO unit. The AquaFX, while a nice unit, is a bit overpriced IMO. The Aquasafe units available on ebay or through their website are very good unit. I run one myself and have so for almost 4 years now and I haven't had any issues with it yet. Also, consider getting a RO storage tank since its handy to have some RO water on hand in case of any emergencies.

A TDS meter will tell you how well your RO unit is performing and is a good indicator as to when you need to change your RO filter cartridges. You don't absolutely need one though.

Nice choices on the lighting and skimmer!

Oh, also, I'm not sure, but it looks like that maxi-jet mod package requires you to get the suregrip mounting magnet as well?

[SeaSerpant]

the maxi-jet might i don't know maybe.

[mark]

Since you are pricing things out are you considering reoccurring costs (eg salt, testkits bulbs, electricity etc).

[SeaSerpant]

NEED TO START:

Euro Reef RS135 - $339.95

Aquasafe Maximus Combo Reverse Osmosis Water Filter - $224

Maxi-Jet 1200 - $26.95

Sunlight Supply 48" New Wave T5 Fixture 4-Bulb, 4 x 54W - $234.95

Live Rock - $315

Live Sand - live sugar sand? where? best online place?

CUC 70 - 90 Gallons - $199.95

Tropic Marin Pro-Reef Sea Salt 200 Gallon Mix - $79.95

[mr_alberta]

There is someone in the classified section selling that skimmer you are looking at for $250: http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=39157

Also, that's a good choice in salt. Its a bit pricey, but supposedly one of the better ones out there.

[SeaSerpant]

thanks i asked him about it. Anything missing? there's nothing i can think of asides from test in the salinity but i don't know what it is.

[SeaSerpant]

bump

[Marlin65]

epsom salt for magnesium

Can you elaborate on this I always use magnesium out of the bottle.:question:

[SeaSerpant]

I don't really know. myka told me this so i guess i'll do some research.
What kind of pump and lights did you buy? You'll probably need another Maxi-Jet 1200. Consider using the Sure-Flow Upgrade kit on at least one Maxi-Jet ($20). In fact, you may be ok with just one MJ1200 with the upgrade kit. One of the purposes of the powerheads is to keep detritus suspended in the water so your filters/protein skimmer can remove it.

You said a 70g protein skimmer, so I'm assuming you're using a sump that will hold about 10 gallons? Be sure that you don't overfill the sump. When you unplug the pump or the power goes off and the water in all the plumbing flows down to the sump it will overflow if you fill the sump too full. How are you plumbing the tank? Overflows or no overflows?

For a protein skimmer I would go with a Euro Reef RS100 ($300) if you can afford it. Don't skimp on a skimmer, it will save your butt when you make mistakes (and you will). The only one that I would suggest that is cheaper would be an AquaC Remora Pro ($265), but the RS100 isn't much more money, but it is much more effective. If you're feeling rich go for a Deltec, and if you win the lottery get a Bubble King! :D Don't waste your money on any of the cheaper protein skimmers...they aren't worth the box they are packaged in.

I use Instant Ocean salt. You have to add calcium, and may need to add magnesium to your waterchange water to get the levels right before you even put it in your tank, but you don't have to worry about that until you start to get corals. I find it's cheaper to use IO and use some additives than it is to buy the more expensive salts that don't need to be added to.

You didn't mention any test kits. I would suggest either Elos or Salifert. I don't believe any other brand is worth spending money on. You'll need pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate test kits to start. Once you want to start adding corals you'll need calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium kits. They have expiry dates though, so don't buy them too far in advance.

You'll also need the additives once you add corals. I use Kent Liquid Calcium to keep my calcium around 415-430 ppm, SeaChem Reef Buffer to keep my alkalinity around 8-9 dKH, and regular ole epsom salts to keep my magnesium around 1350-1400 ppm.

I would highly suggest you buy your own RO/DI unit. I have an AquaFX Barracuda 4 stage RO/DI (~$180) that I really like. Be sure to buy a TDS meter (~$30) at the same time as you'll need it to monitor when to change your cartridges. Now that I have an RO/DI unit I'm kicking myself in the butt for not buying one 10 years ago. I used to use tap water 10 years ago and had algae from hell, but I didn't know any better. In the more recent years I have bought RO water from grocery stores, and the algae was substantially minimized, but now that I have my own RO/DI unit my algae problems are a thing of the past. Plus I don't have to pack 5 gallon jugs to and from the grocery store anymore!!! WOO HOO!

For heaters, I like to use two smaller heaters so that if one gets stuck on (it happens more often than you may realise) it won't cook your tank. Been there, done that, not fun. Lost my whole tank. Where is your tank located? I find if it's in a normal room temperature area then 3w per gallon is enough (in which case two 100w heaters should suffice), if it's in a cold basement then you may need 5w per gallon. I have both Visitherm and Ebo Jager heaters. Although I like both, I prefer the Visitherm as it's easier to adjust and the suction cups seem to last longer.

I've never seen an Orange Ball Anemone for sale, maybe others have...? I also agree to wait at least 9-12 months before you add the Mandarin or the starfish. I also suggest that you add a refugium with chaeto well in advance of adding the Mandarin to help supply food for it. A Lawnmower blenny may starve in a tank that size, but you are new to saltwater so you may have algae problems which would benefit the blenny, but not your corals! LOL Clownfish do better in pairs...what species are you thinking of? I hope you got MH lighting if you want to keep that clam. As mentioned, shrimp are an excellent addition...I really like Peppermints (some have a liking to eat small aiptasia) and Cleaners. They help to keep the sand and live rock clean. I'm not a fan of hermits because they kill snails when they're hungry and to steal their shells. I love Orange Lip Conches for keeping the sand clean and stirred instead of cukes. The conch would be a better choice for your size of tank anyway.

Get your hands on some Stomatella snails if you can find some...they are awesome algae eaters and breed in your tank so they'll keep their population even with the amount of algae your tank is producing. Astraea snails are great too. I don't like Turbos or Trochus as they get awfully big and knock corals over. Nassarius and Cerith snails are good as well. Don't follow the one snail/hermit per gallon rule...that's too much and many will die of starvation. Add them a few at a time until you find the right number.

I use www.jlaquatics.com for my equipment and supplies. They have great prices, and will beat any other price in Canada. They have free shipping via UPS on orders over $200.

Good luck and keep us posted! :)