BB is it really good.

[Skimmerking]

Well After thinking and reading about it and doing it my BB I'm getting bored of it. reasons I think its great for SPS tanks with huge flow area's. you can keep your tank cleaner then a sand bed depending on the sand that you use. But with a mixed tank I'm thinking that a sand bed would be alot better like for example my tank i have alot of lps, softies clams , and a few Sps. I dont really have anything in the system to take out nitrates but I do have my so called RDSb that is 4 " in a 28 gal tank. But I dont know if that would be enought to take out the nitrates where I added it about 2 weeks ago. I run ozone in the tank. to keep the bacteria down and to clean the water. I have a maxima ,2 derasa's and buying another Derasa and Crocea clam tomorrow so I will have 5 clams in my tank hoping that the nitrates will drop some what. But actually how many clams would you need to comsune enough nitrates any ways?

I love the carib sea select sand its tiny rocks but small enough for wrasses to dive into and small for a sand bed too. That is what I have in my tank in the R sand bed. I know that I will put a sand bed of the carib sea sand in the cube when i get if going. I wondering if I should go 30" high or 24 hight for the cube. the size will be either 30x30x24 or 30x30x30 I havent decided with that yet. I'm going to be running a 400 w SE with a lumerac reflector and a ice cap ballast with it. because I love wrasses and cuke's and conchs too so there I go chatting away about other things.

Well how many are likeing the BB? and how many prefer the sand bed?

[marie]

I wouldn't trade my sand bed for anything .

[fishoholic]

I prefer the sand bed. I like it mostly because it provides a home and food for my sleeper goby, but I also like how it looks.

[Skimmerking]

well i look at all the tanks that have a sand bed like Marie's tank amazing, and others on htis board, chaulopa another one, there are so many that have great sucess with it. but on the other hand there is many with great sucess with out it, however alot of reefers are using many gaugets to take out the no3 and the phoshates. well i know that I'm going to ahve a sand bed with good quality snd for my cube when i get back from Afghanistan.

[fkshiu]

I've got a mixed reef with a little bit of everything like you and I've found a happy middle with just a 1" sandbed in the front half of the tank. It's essentially just for looks, but keeps my gobies and pistol shrimp happy. Looks much better than BB.

[Skimmerking]

I've got a mixed reef with a little bit of everything like you and I've found a happy middle with just a 1" sandbed in the front half of the tank. It's essentially just for looks, but keeps my gobies and pistol shrimp happy. Looks much better than BB.

how is your nitrates in your tank

[fkshiu]

how is your nitrates in your tank

I haven't the faintest clue as I've never tested for NO3 in this tank. I'm assuming it's very low since my SPS are all nicely coloured up and growing.

I have a relatively low fishload for a 150 gallon system: 6" regal tang, 3" purple tang, 6-line wrasse, royal gramma, diamond goby and a couple oc. clowns. I feed once a day, skim wet and have a ball of chaeto in the sump on a reverse light cycle. I run purigen but have been too lazy yet to crack open the bucket of GFO that I just ordered. I also have some xenia in the sump which is the only unorthodox method of nutrient removal that I'm doing.

[danny zubot]

A shallow sand bed of 1-1.5 inches is all I've ever had until i went bare bottom. Never had any issues with high nitrates, in fact I think mine are worse now without a sand bed. I can't wait until I set up the new tank and go back to a sand bed.

[Psyire]

Well I hate my sand, so put me down for BB.

I would switch it in a heartbeat if it wasn't so hard to do.

The key is bioload and balancing your waste management. High bioload + a Sandbed is a recipe for disaster in the future. Unless of course you are the worlds best water changer. A sandbed will mask your high bioload problem until it no longer can, and then you're in for some major problems.

Having no sand will not mask this problem and you'll be forced to deal with it before you have major long lasting problems.

Flow is the other area of concern, 'high' flow rates are not possible using sand as it won't stay put. Flow is the #1 overlooked important thing in this hobby, water movement makes everything possible. Stagnant tanks aren't good for much..

[Der_Iron_Chef]

*casts his lot with the pro-BB crew*

[andresont]

Well I hate my sand, so put me down for BB.

I would switch it in a heartbeat if it wasn't so hard to do.

The key is bioload and balancing your waste management. High bioload + a Sandbed is a recipe for disaster in the future. Unless of course you are the worlds best water changer. A sandbed will mask your high bioload problem until it no longer can, and then you're in for some major problems.

Having no sand will not mask this problem and you'll be forced to deal with it before you have major long lasting problems.

Flow is the other area of concern, 'high' flow rates are not possible using sand as it won't stay put. Flow is the #1 overlooked important thing in this hobby, water movement makes everything possible. Stagnant tanks aren't good for much..

All above is very well said.
No3 will accumulate in a long run even with water changes.
Flow is very important.

BB here also.
.

[Reefer Rob]

Sand is a real PTA with the 50X flow in my tank. I only have 1/2" to 1" for looks, and I'd ditch it in a heartbeat if I didn't like the look of it so much.

[Aquattro]

Running my 75 with a full load of SPS, 5 fish, 70# of rock and no sand, I had 0 NO3 every time I measured. No gadgets, no NO3 removal stuff. 10g water change every two weeks, Ca reactor for Ca/alk and nothing else. No Mg, no supplements, etc. My tank did just fine and grew faster than I wanted it to. The BB allowed much greater flow than sand would have allowed, which results in thicker SPS growth. After 6 months the bottom was covered in coraline and such anyway, so it looked ok.
That being said, I miss the times sitting in front of the tank at 3am with a flashlight watching all the cool critters from the sand bed.
My new tank will have some sand for decorative purposes as well as giving me back some of those critters. I do not consider sand neccesary for NO3 removal, but that's just my experience. I would never use a DSB again, as I feel this is just a time bomb waiting to kill the tank. Might be 4 or 5 years down the road, but it will go boom. Again, YMMV

[Skimmerking]

Well with my tank its a 120 gal. with a75 gal sump, ATI BM 250, ozone 20mg, 28 gal with 4" Sand bed not lit.
I have a 5" Foxface
4" kole
4" purple tang
2 clowns
4 Chromis
Royal gramma
Algae blenny
3" Lammerick angel
2 Blue linkia's
Orange brittle star
Leopard Brittle star
2 peppemints shrimp
1 cleaner shrimp
assorted snails

I wonder if that is alot i feed 3 times aday with small feeds

[Aquattro]

I wonder if that is alot i feed 3 times aday with small feeds

That is a heavy bio-load, and with 3 feedings a day, ya, you might get a nitrate problem.

I had 2 tangs that grazed on tank stuff, a pair of clowns and a chromis. I feed once per day with mysis and added about a 2" x 4" strip of nori for the tangs.
Honestly, some of the nicest tanks I've seen used only a skimmer and reactor, good lighting, minimal feedings and were with or without sand. Sand never appeared to be the deciding factor in a nice tank, rather stability, frequent water changes and minimizing nutrient input.

[Skimmerking]

thanks Brad I didn't think that feeding flakes 3 times per day would have a impact on the nitrate problem. I guess i will shorten the feeding down and figure out a way to maybe get rid of some fish I was thinking of taking out the purple tang. and the foxface may be

[michika]

Aesthetically speaking I like BB in small tanks, its kind of like a minimalist look in a way. However, I think when I set up another large system I will go with a sandbed for looks more then anything.

[Aquattro]

Mike, it's a balance really. If you can control the NO3, and keep it in acceptable range, then changing the fish load/feeding might not be required. For me, corals were my primary concern, so I managed my tank to emphasize those. For people that prefer fish over coral coloration, then some NO3 is to be expected, and as long as it's manageable, it's not a large concern. And instead of flake I would switch to pellets, as those tend to end up in the fish more so than flakes (IME). If you feed any frozen foods, rinse well before feeding. If you can keep NO3 below ~20 ppm, I wouldn't worry too much. If you sit around 40+ppm, then maybe rethink what you're doing.

[Aquattro]

However, I think when I set up another large system I will go with a sandbed for looks more then anything.

Agreed. While I think the sand will work against what I'm trying to do, my new tank will be more of a display than previous tanks, and for looks, I'm going to go with a 1/2" of sand, at least in the viewable areas.

[christyf5]

I totally attribute any success I've had in the hobby to the removal of my sandbed. While I do miss it at times (esp when I'm trying to reach the bottom of the tank with my hands) you can't beat BB for siphoning ease. The amount of detritus that builds up in a single week makes me shudder at what was getting mixed into my sandbed. No wonder I always had issues with my tank with sand.

[mark]

I run BB, I'm happy with BB, and can't see going with sand but I do have to admit a maintained sand bed looks great, allows things I can't have and would make placement a little easier for things I do.

DSB, if required for NO3 reduction, can work in a display with a little effort. Believe though for the ease maintenance go RDSB and if want sand in the display for looks, go shallow sand bed.

[untamed]

I went with a compromise. There's a layer of sand covering all the viewable front/sides that varies from nearly nothing to 2" in some areas. MOST people would also view my sand to be dirty looking. I make few efforts to clean it and I believe that disrupts all the critters who are trying to make a living there.

The back (and other less visible areas) is completely BB. All the rockwork is also sitting directly on the bottom of the tank.

When I installed the small refugium, it has a DSB about 4" deep.

I didn't get my nitrate monitor until after the refugium was running, but I have no measureable nitrate in my tank. (I also have more algae than most people seem to want, so I can't conclude that my sand, refugium w/DSB are necessarily the cure)

[Moogled]

BB here, maintenance is much easier too.

Just popping out a suggestion here but if you have a patch of GSP, work with it so you cover the bottom of your tank like a carpet.

The effect is gorgeous and I'm currently trying to get mine to spread more.

[mark]

BB here, maintenance is much easier too.

Just popping out a suggestion here but if you have a patch of GSP, work with it so you cover the bottom of your tank like a carpet.

The effect is gorgeous and I'm currently trying to get mine to spread more.

reminds me of this thread (http://216.187.96.54/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=35197&highlight=star)