Need some advice, thanks

[smoke20ster]

Hopefully this is the right thread to be asking....

Ok, this is the 2nd salt tank I have done, the first was over 10years ago....

the tank is a 45tall (25x18x25)
My thoughts are this for filtration and what not
-Fluval 205 (already have)
-Pentair Aquatics (Lifeguard #FB300) Fluidized bed filter (rio 600 powered)
-Protein skimmer (unknown brand right now...)
-ebo jager heater
-2 Hydor Koralia #1 wave circ. pumps hooked to a wave maker
-Lighting will be 2 bulbs at ho, and 2 bulbs at vho. Like to add some lunar lights. The only issue I have is that Id like to have a single unit. Ive found a 4 bulb hood, that is hooked up for 2 ho, and 2 for vho(just need a ballast for vho)

As for the protein skimmer.....I originally thought the seaclone 100 would be a good choice, but after reading alot of different reviews, I struggle to think that was a good choice. 2nd choice is a Aquarium Systems PS, its used and reminds me of a seaclone.....but I came from using a Lee's counter current PS, so...these new skimmers a trick to me :P its really between the Aqua-C and a CPR Bak-Pak 2.
Ive seen some hang on the back ones called "Aqua-C Remora or Remora Pro" using a surface skimmer/bubble trap, and a Maxi-jet pump. Id like to find a hang on the back PS thats very reliable, and easy to use and set-up.

The lighting is also a big factor...as I plan to get a few soft corals(colt, mushroom, clam, and afew other easy to take care of ones to start with.) Id like to either make a case to hold a 4 or 6 bulb retro kit in VHO, as I have read 4-6 watts per gallon. Id like to see daylight bulbs, and attinics, or 50/50 in there as well. Im not sure if a MH bulb would cook the tank, as I dont want a chiller......would a MH bulb sitting on top of the aquarium raise the temp enough to cook stuff? Ive seen 150watt bulbs as the lowest so far

As you can see...I have aloy of questions....and hopefully some of you might be able to help. As for fish....
Im looking at a clown fish, hippo tang(dora from nemo :P ), prawls(or prawn) gobie, and a scooter blennie and a 8line wrasse. would a MH bulb sitting on top of the aquarium raise the temp enough to cook stuff? Ive seen 150watt bulbs as the lowest so far.....The tang is open to discussion to say, since Ive got to have the blennie, gobie, and the clown. other tank inhabitants(sp?) will be brittle stars, serpent stars, a long spined sea urchin, hermit crabs and some snail of different types.
. Down the line Id like to go with a much bigger tank...possibly a 90ish that will be housing a dwarf octopus.

Any ideas and help you can throw my way would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
S

[digital-audiophile]

First off welcome to Canreef :)


Scrap the bed filter first off :p Are you planning on running a sump or were you thinking about using the cansiter filter for LR rubble?

I would also recommend not getting a regal tank for that size tank, far to small to keep it happy and healthy.

[Shipwreck]

I would not use the fluidized bed and if you use the fluval keep it free of media and use it just for flow. A sump/fuge would be a better solution for both of these. As well make sure you have a good skimmer, a sump gives you the option of buying an in sump version and more choices.

For lighting I would go with T5's and not VHO. VHO is being phased out and will no longer be available in the near future. T5's are cheaper, more common and provide a better light output at less power (hence the reason they are going to be no longer produced).

As for your fish list your tank is no where near big enough to support any member of the tang family. The other fish on your list sound like a good choice for a 45.

An octopus tank sounds neat but do lots of reading before you jump into that world, their tank requirements and care is much different then regular stuff.

Good luck on your setup and feel free to ask lots of questions.

[smoke20ster]

thanks for posting.

The fluval was going to be used for chemicals....ie(carbon, those noodle things they send with the kit, and whatever else will help.)
As for a sump? I never gave it any thought. I did at one time want a wet/dry filter...Im hoping this is the same type of sump your refering to?

As for lights...Ive read, that 6watts is good lighting for each gallon of the aquarium. And with HO I havent seen a high enough wattage in hoods to attain that in a 2-4 bulb fixture. That was the only reason for going to vho. Even the power compats just dont put out that much wattage. Unless Im not seeing something in plain sight, how would this work out? the tank dimensions are 25longx18deepx25high. The tang is a open item, I like the look of them but its not needed :P

Deffiently going to have a few soft corals the choices I have looked at were:
Yellow Fiji Finger Leather, Flourescent Green Rasta Leather, Neon Green tree coral(leather), Colt Coral, Yellow tree Gorgonian, Red Sea Pink/white pumping Xenia, short tentacle plate coral.

As for all the fish I looked at:
Randall's Gobie, Golden head sleeper gobie, watchman bluespotted goby, scooter blennie, 8 line wrasse, starry lawnmower blenny.
Later on, Id like to get that blue hippo tang(dora-finding nemo?) and a Black tang. This of course will be in a 90 gallon I might do in a few years.....right after I get a house bought or built.

[Slick Fork]

The Watts per gallon rule is almost useless in a sw tank. a 4 or 6 bulb High Output T5 unit will be tons of light for the tank you're planning. A single 150 watt Halide pendant would do the trick just as nicely as well

[Shipwreck]

Watts per gallon is no longer used in marine aquariums. More important is the spectrum of the lights and the PAR of the light. Normal output fluorescents, VHO and Power compacts are all old technology and I would not wast money on buying any fixtures for those. On a tank your size a T5HO fixture would work great or a MH if you really want, or if you have money a LED system.

Here (http://reefperfection.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=479) is an example of the Sunlight Supply wave T5HO fixture (a cheaper fixture) and here (http://reefperfection.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=191) is an example of a more expensive Tek fixture just to give you some ideas.

[smoke20ster]

I would not use the fluidized bed and if you use the fluval keep it free of media and use it just for flow. A sump/fuge would be a better solution for both of these. As well make sure you have a good skimmer, a sump gives you the option of buying an in sump version and more choices.

For lighting I would go with T5's and not VHO. VHO is being phased out and will no longer be available in the near future. T5's are cheaper, more common and provide a better light output at less power (hence the reason they are going to be no longer produced).

As for your fish list your tank is no where near big enough to support any member of the tang family. The other fish on your list sound like a good choice for a 45.

An octopus tank sounds neat but do lots of reading before you jump into that world, their tank requirements and care is much different then regular stuff.

Good luck on your setup and feel free to ask lots of questions.

Ive seen the Refugium's...but I dont see what they actually do. As for a simple sump, Ive got a small bit of room under the tank(in the stand) but wouldnt a wet/dry be around the same lines?

Watts per gallon is no longer used in marine aquariums. More important is the spectrum of the lights and the PAR of the light. Normal output fluorescents, VHO and Power compacts are all old technology and I would not wast money on buying any fixtures for those. On a tank your size a T5HO fixture would work great or a MH if you really want, or if you have money a LED system.

Here (http://reefperfection.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=479) is an example of the Sunlight Supply wave T5HO fixture (a cheaper fixture) and here (http://reefperfection.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=191) is an example of a more expensive Tek fixture just to give you some ideas.

Yeah Ive even looked at those Tek light fixtures, and I was very impressed. Even seen a MH with 2 ho bulbs in a 370watt hood, was a generic china made fixture and wasnt ul listed, so I wasnt a big fan there...hate to see the house burn down :P

[Doug]

Welcome to Canreef



W/D,s are a bio filter, used to support high fish loads, where not enough live rock or other means of providing bio filtration are not used.

I agree with the hanging halide pendant for a tank of that shape & depth. Hanging it over the open top, allows of easy fan cooling and no overheating.

Purchase a good skimmer.

[digital-audiophile]

The sump is not really used in the wet/dry type application in SW. The main reasons to have a sump are :

Greater water volume = better water stability
A place to put a skimmer/heater/reactors
You can build in a refugium for to grow macro algae for nutrient export

Do you already have the tank/stand? or is it something you are looking at buying?

[smoke20ster]

The sump is not really used in the wet/dry type application in SW. The main reasons to have a sump are :

Greater water volume = better water stability
A place to put a skimmer/heater/reactors
You can build in a refugium for to grow macro algae for nutrient export

Do you already have the tank/stand? or is it something you are looking at buying?


All ready have the stand that I built, and have the tank already..its the old style 45 tall from all glass aquariums (i think it was discontinued, and redesigned) not bad for 50 dollars, though.

So the sump would just be like another aquarium under the primary one?

[Matt]

First, welcome to Canreef, and welcome back to the hobby!

Adding in on the lights issue, speaking from experience. An organism that uses light for photosynthesis has no idea how many gallons of water it is in. It only 'knows' how bright the light is. In a 25" deep tank, you have a lighting challenge if you want to keep light-loving corals or clams near the bottom. Eventually, it will become a trade-off between light and heat.

Tank might also be too small for a scooter blennie. They have roughly the same requirements for live rock volume, healthy pod populations and tank stability as a Mandarin.

The final note I'll make on the 45 tall is that you're minimizing surface-area to volume with that setup (again, this is my experience with a not-too-different effort). That leads to dificulties with aquascaping, access (how long are your arms?), water flow, heat control and oxygen exchange. If I were doing it again, I'd be looking to reverse the ratio, and go for a longer, shallower tank.

Cheers,
Matt

[digital-audiophile]

Basically, yeah.

There are a few different designs, some people use a series of baffles to maintain water levels in the skimmer chamber and to control micro bubbles. A cool design though that I think I just got my head around (and I think I am going to swith to) has just one baffle in the middle just above the water line with a hole drilled in the lower part of the baffle with a ball valve.

If you have room for the sump it is something to look at, hwoever you would need to either drill you tank or look at a hang on overflow to move the water to the sump, and then a return pump plumbed in to return the water.

[smoke20ster]

First, welcome to Canreef, and welcome back to the hobby!

Adding in on the lights issue, speaking from experience. An organism that uses light for photosynthesis has no idea how many gallons of water it is in. It only 'knows' how bright the light is. In a 25" deep tank, you have a lighting challenge if you want to keep light-loving corals or clams near the bottom. Eventually, it will become a trade-off between light and heat.

Tank might also be too small for a scooter blennie. They have roughly the same requirements for live rock volume, healthy pod populations and tank stability as a Mandarin.

The final note I'll make on the 45 tall is that you're minimizing surface-area to volume with that setup (again, this is my experience with a not-too-different effort). That leads to dificulties with aquascaping, access (how long are your arms?), water flow, heat control and oxygen exchange. If I were doing it again, I'd be looking to reverse the ratio, and go for a longer, shallower tank.

Cheers,
Matt

I can just touch the bottom of the tank as the stand is only 29" tall. Had to be that way for me to reach. worst case, I go with a different tank.....Ive got 36" length for where the aquarium goes, so its leaving a few options......thanks for the reply !

[smoke20ster]

Basically, yeah.

There are a few different designs, some people use a series of baffles to maintain water levels in the skimmer chamber and to control micro bubbles. A cool design though that I think I just got my head around (and I think I am going to swith to) has just one baffle in the middle just above the water line with a hole drilled in the lower part of the baffle with a ball valve.

If you have room for the sump it is something to look at, hwoever you would need to either drill you tank or look at a hang on overflow to move the water to the sump, and then a return pump plumbed in to return the water.

Yeah drilling isnt a option for me...unless I go to a different aquarium, and use this 45 for the sump. Since noone in my home town drills glass I would haveto go with a HOB overflow box.

Thanks for all the help thus far guys/gals....greatly appreciated!

[Matt]

A cool design though that I think I just got my head around (and I think I am going to swith to) has just one baffle in the middle just above the water line with a hole drilled in the lower part of the baffle with a ball valve.Pictures? Links? I'm in the process of redesigning my sump.

[digital-audiophile]

There are some pictures of the ball valve sump design in Richards thread here http://canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=37356

[Shipwreck]

A sump is primarily a holding tank for extra water, pumps, skimmer, heater, calcium reactors, sensor probes, autotop off and any other equipment that you don't want to see hanging in you main tank.

A fuge or refugium is a place to hold additional liverock, house a deep sand bed and grow macro algae (most common is Cheato). The purpose of this area is to add to the filtration of your system. The additional live rock provides more surface area for the beneficial bacterias to grow, as well as to give an area for pods (copepods, mysis, etc) to grow and breed with no preditors. A deep sand bed (optional) creates an area of low oxegen and denritification will occur. The macro algae is used to export excess nutrients. As the algae grows it takes up the same nutrients that the bad algae's use. You then remove a portion of the macro and dispose of it, thus removing these nutrients from the system.

[smoke20ster]

Old 12-14-2007, 05:08 PM #1
smoke20ster
squid

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 5

Some questions
OK, Ive talked to a few of you yesterday about this 45tall, after sitting down and loooking at the aquarium...and what I wanted to invision it to be.

Ive looked into a much larger aquarium. Going from a 45tall(25x18x25) to a 75tall(48x18x21). So what I wanted to know....hopefully a few others I talked to will remeber my other thread, Im also going with a "sump" as I was pointed in that direction.
Since its not glass, yes glasscages.com wont ship to Nebraska(for glass) and driving to Des Moines, IA is the closest they will ship to so I kind of get screwed, it was cheaper to go with glass in the same size....I hadto go with a acrylic, overflow built in "reef ready". Looking like around 500 shipped (tank, all the bulkheads, acrylic tops, and drilled, overflow, and finally a sump), unless someone has another source?

So, knowing that I will need 2 Hydor Koralia #4's, a skimmer(not sure what kind) and a 48" light (looking at a T5 or T6 with a possible MH or just all T5/T6 bulbs with lunar lights)

Does anyone have any suggestions concerning the tank, or what have you?