What brand protein skimmer?

[marciemp]

I am looking for an in sump protein skimmer for a 92 gallon corner tank. Can you give me several brands that are top notch, ones that are good, several that are decent, and a warning list of some that are junk?

I have been looking mostly used but without an knowledge about what is good and what is junk it is hard to know.

Also how big of a skimmer? Is it Ok to use one that is rated for much bigger than our tank, and how much bigger is OK? Right now our tank inhabitants are limited to a blue tang, a yellow tang, 2 clownfish, a yellow watchman, and 2 damsels some snails and hermit crabs, and 3 groups of zoanthid polyps, but we would like the option of branching out to more corals eventually.

Thanks,
Marcie

[Salmon King]

I use a uro reef 135 on my tank and am very pleased.This size would be good for yours.I dont think any size skimmer too big.The one size up is the next one I will get.I hang around the local pet store and have heard the best opinions about this one

[andresont]

Things too look for in the skimmer:

Air mixing- good one will give you 600 Liters per hour or more (some are in Gal/hr) Benefits of the large air mixing capacity are: stable ORP, and Ph. Better nitrogen cycle ( bacteria takes oxygen to metabolize waste )
Power consumption, look for Watts rating on the pump (lower the better)External pumps are very power hungry.
Quietness , noise level.
How easy is it to clean ? do you need to deal with screws? or just lift the cup and go? The easyer it is to clean the more likely you WILL do it, (clean skimmer performs better)
How much room will the unit take ?
How easy is it to dissemble (the whole unit) you need to do it at least once a year for stable performance.

I am cautious to name names of the skimmers because people have preferences. However i think that most people will agree on basic points.

i would always go for the most powerful unit that you can afford.
Anything less the $400-$500 (retail) is of questionable performance and you will end up selling it, loosing money , getting a better one , so buying a good one in the beginning will save you money, time, you will have better performance from the beginning and resale value is higher so its a win win.

.

[Geofrog]

From what I hear the Euroreef skimmers are the best out there, but they tend to be very pricey. If you can afford one, get one. I currently use a V2 Skim 800 on my 95 gal, which works great, and easy to clean. It is rated for 180 gal with a flow rating of 2800 l/hr. I agree with andresont, don't chinc out on the skimmer. I started out with a Red Sea Berlin turbo, what a piece of crap, and then ended up upgrading. In the end I could have saved some money by spending the extra cash up front for a better skimmer.

[digital-audiophile]

I just upgraded from a Coralife Super Skimmer to a Eruoreef RS135 on the weekend. Although it is still breaking in I am very pleased with it. Just in the couple days it has been running my water quality seems to have improved.

If you are interested in the Euroreef go talk to Albert, his price on them is amazing.

If you want a super sexy skimmer look at the bubble king, out of my price range but if I won the lottery It would be my first purchases... well maybe second after a Lamborghini Gallardo :p

[albert_dao]

TOP NOTCH:

Bubble King - Fantastic build quality, insane performance, unmatched silence and efficiency. Smallest model is, more than likely, too large for your tank (130 gallon min w/ BK Mini 160). $850+

Deltec - Aggressive skimming, trusted brand name, but I don't like them very much. Seems to me like Deltec USA (the master distributor in North America) is gouging the crap out of everyone, considering that these things are cheaper than H&S in Europe/Asia and more expensive than H&S here. $600+.

H&S - Aggressive skimmer. Never heard a complaint about these things, though I've never used one myself. Identical performance to Deltec, cheaper, built like a tank. You probably can't go wrong with H&S if you can find one used. $500+

ATI Bubblemaster - Good skimmer, but requires heavy bioload to operate. Junky build quality (thin plastic), poor product support, but fantastic price vs cost/performance ratio. $500+

GOOD SKIMMERS:

EuroReef - You simply CANNOT beat the price vs. performance ratio on these skimmers. Construction quality is decent, efficiency is very average, the filtering capacity is very good, noise levels are on par with a medium sized air pump (quiet enough for under a cabinet, but don't expect to sleep beside the unit). I use a lot of these, I've also sold a lot of these and I've had no complaints. $240+

Elos - Decent performing skimmer, but WAAAAAAAAY to expensive for what it does. Definitely well constructed though, mine looks like a work of art. $600+

ASM - I dunno, EuroReef's have way better construction and are cheaper to get new (yes, ASM has raised their prices, EuroReef has lowered theirs). Don't bother with these unless you can get one super cheap; like your mom wants to give you one cause she's moving to Montreal to join the circus cheap. $300+

PM Bullet - I don't have any personal experience with these, but a few of my customers use them and they like them. I'm just not a huge fan of injection style skimmers. $400 w/ pump

JUNK STUFF:

SeaClone - Don't. $90+

Coralife Super Skimmer - These are fine if you're a dirt poor, starving college student or a parent with a family of seven. If these don't apply to you, stay away. $120+

Aqua C Urchin - I use to sell these. They worked, but for the price point, EuroReef's definitely are of better value. $190+

All the misc. Chinese made copy products - Most of them are either sub-par to okay skimmers for low prices. If you have the money, dont' waste your time with these things.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Good review Albert.

[banditpowdercoat]

I have to ask, what makes a skimmer soo damned expensive? I mean, I have never seen a junk one yet, let alone a good one, but by looking at pictures, some acrylic tubing and a pump? I am an extreme DIY person and hate overpriced things(the if you need it, your gona pay attitude) with a passion, guess I just need some explanation why they cost so much.

[albert_dao]

Also how big of a skimmer? Is it Ok to use one that is rated for much bigger than our tank, and how much bigger is OK? Right now our tank inhabitants are limited to a blue tang, a yellow tang, 2 clownfish, a yellow watchman, and 2 damsels some snails and hermit crabs, and 3 groups of zoanthid polyps, but we would like the option of branching out to more corals eventually.

Thanks,
Marcie

Modern skimmers do NOT need to be oversized. In fact, many skimmers will perform poorly when oversized to your system. A lot of the newer skimmers sport a wide neck feature. These wide necks require a MINIMUM bioload in order to produce a stable foam head. Oversize and you'll just have an overpriced water aerator.

[albert_dao]

I have to ask, what makes a skimmer soo damned expensive? I mean, I have never seen a junk one yet, let alone a good one, but by looking at pictures, some acrylic tubing and a pump? I am an extreme DIY person and hate overpriced things(the if you need it, your gona pay attitude) with a passion, guess I just need some explanation why they cost so much.

For the most part, you're paying for R&D, cost of materials and a decent pay wage for labor time.

Consider the prices on cast acrylic tubing ATM:

http://www.polymerplastics.com/transparents_acrylict.shtml
- play with the prices (8"diameter, 1/4" thick @ $110.88/ft!!!)

http://www.professionalplastics.com/cgi-bin/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/85283/sesent/00/Acrylic-Tubes---Cast
- $115.41 for 8.5"!!!

Additionally, many of the pumps are further modified from their stock versions. Royal Exclusive goes as far as to have Askoll custom manufacture motorblocks to their exacting specifications.

Toss in rising wages, import costs, wholesale distributor markups, retail markups, and boom, there's your skimmer price. By no means are the people at the manufacturing end making a KILLING off each individual skimmer.

Edit: Let's imagine what it would cost to build a BK 250 with some inferred and some arbitrary numbers...

Cast acrylic tubing 12" diameter @ 3/8" thickness = $1155.49 (source: http://www.polymerplastics.com/transparents_acrylict.shtml)
PVC Sheet 3/8" = $68.57 (source http://www.professionalplastics.com/cgi-bin/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/85489/sesent/00/PVC---Type-1-Grey---Sheets-&-Rods)
Red Dragon retails at $830. Let's be conservative here and assume it costs the manufacturer about 40% of this value to custom order this from Askoll, then perform further modifications such as the anti-calcium bypass and CNC'd impellar = $300.00
Labor (I'm going to assume a decent wage since these things are manufactured in Germany, not China, so how about $35/hour? Let's go with a conservative two hours per unit) = $70.00
I'm not even going to include the price of rent, utilities, interest rates, blah blah blah...

Total costs to produce (estimation) $1594.06
- 25% just to account for anything I might be missing like wholesale discounts, etc $1195.55
Manufacturer's markup @ 15% (conservatively speaking) $1374.88
Wholesaler's markup @ 5% (again, conservative figure) $1443.62

Retail value of the unit $1824.99

Hope that makes sense.

Edit #2: All that said, I absolutely CANNOT figure out where Deltec gets off charging what it does. The construction is skimpy, the materials are just kinda okay (extruded acrylic on some models as I recall, ABS neck, Uniseal grommets vs. bonded bulkheads or PVC joints, the list of where they cheaped out goes on and on), and the customer service is non-existant (this may have changed recently, so don't hang me for it), OMG...

And for the record, YES, I do have experience with Deltecs.

[banditpowdercoat]

Ouch, never thought tube would be that expensive

[Patrick1]

Listen to Albert..... He is a reef tech Junkie... I like the Euroreef myself. with a narrow neck you can go larger and keep a good head. The newer wide neck style you will need to match the tank size and bio load to the skimmer, meaning don't over size. The Euroreef is so easy to clean. Also it's new bubble diffuser/level setting are silly easy.

[jasond]

Ouch, never thought tube would be that expensive

I bet you never thought you would spend money on "live rock" either! That still makes me shake my head. Yes I see the benefits, but yes I am still paying money for rock!

[blaster]

Great i just ordered a minibubbleking300 for my 120,iguess i might as well sell that then.

[digital-audiophile]

Here is a question, Albert you sort of eluded to it on the weekend.. when calculating water volume for the appropriate skimmer should you take the gross water volume, or a calculation of water volume after accounting for water displacement from live rock, sand and equipment?

[albert_dao]

I would size the skimmer according to your budget in that sense. If you're trying to be cost effective, size it according to the net volume after displacement. If you're blatantly able to afford a BK, size it to the gross volume (this assumes moderate to dense stocking).

Net vs. Gross volume calculations aren't a make or break calculation when it comes to skimmers unless we're talking about substantial displacements of water.

These kinds of calculations are more relevant to dosing regimes, eg. chemical additives, trace elements, probiotic methods, etc.

[blaster]

By the way albert do you have a bubblekingmini operating?I no now this is it for me,so i was curious if you had one running on your system?

[albert_dao]

Yes, I do. There's a 160 running at the back of of the store.

[Matt]

Albert,

Kudos for a thoughtful, complete and nuetral set of replies here. You've helped me as much as the OP, I think.

[marciemp]

Thank you so much for all the replies. It can be so hard to get a sense of what is good and what is bad reading all of the forums as everyone has different experience based on so many things, not just quality of product, but customer service, price...
Thanks again, really gives me a better idea of what's what

[albert_dao]

Thank you so much for all the replies. It can be so hard to get a sense of what is good and what is bad reading all of the forums as everyone has different experience based on so many things, not just quality of product, but customer service, price...
Thanks again, really gives me a better idea of what's what

What is your budget?

[digital-audiophile]

Thanks Albert, with my budget in mind you sold me the correct skimmer.. allthough you did your best to sell me on the bubble king :p

[JPeach]

Albert,

If you go to www.mcmaster.com you will find that the cast tubing can be purchased around 50% less then you suggested.

My company uses Mcmaster weekly,there shipping is a bit expensive but if you think about 50% savings, the shipping cost would probably be mitigated. There shipping normally takes days to come from Atlanta. They literally have just about anything you industrial you can imagine.

If you look at Page 3447 of there on line catalog you will see the costs of there tubing.



Jim