PDA

View Full Version : Bad Hair Algae


likwid
12-05-2007, 06:39 PM
Hey guys,

I have a 10g tank with 72w 50/50, AC500 refugium with chaeto and halimeda macro algaes and live rock rubble, and a, AquaC Nano Remora skimmer. The tank has around 15 lbs of live rock, an inch of live sand, and various corals. Also in the tank is a BTA and percula. It has been running for around a year now and I have been battling hair algae the entire time. I try to syphon out as much as I can during weekly water changes, but it grows back everywhere, including the sand and glass. I am now only feeding twice a week.

Any ideas?

kwirky
12-05-2007, 08:05 PM
maybe switch to feeding frozen mysis and soak it in RO before feeding it? I found flake food a contributor to problems in any freshwater or saltwater tank I've kept.

likwid
12-05-2007, 09:00 PM
I used to feed only frozen mysis shrimp that was soaked in tap water first, I thought switching to flakes would make things better. I dont think it is related to the food anyways, I feed small amounts a couple times a week. I am using RO water from walmart for top ups/water changes.

Jeff_
12-05-2007, 11:56 PM
Could it be the high waste production from the BTA?

likwid
12-06-2007, 12:11 AM
I only spot feed the BTA mysis shrimp once a week, so I dont think that would do it? Wouldnt the skimmer remove most of it and the macro algae suck up any left over nutrients. Seems right now like the skimmer and fuge are useless.

Jeff_
12-06-2007, 12:15 AM
That idea came to me after remembering that vendors usually ship their anemones without water so that they cant pass waste and kill themselves. Which led me to think maybe in a smaller tank the waste would accumulate faster than the skimmer and macroalgae combined could remove it. Other than that I dont see anything else that could be contributing to it in such a big way.

likwid
12-06-2007, 02:27 PM
I really do not think it is the anemone, I have been having these problems before I even had it in the tank.

BC564
12-06-2007, 02:31 PM
Is the location of the tank in natural sunlight?

likwid
12-06-2007, 02:42 PM
Nope, not in any direct sunlight at all

BC564
12-06-2007, 03:22 PM
How big are you weekly water changes?

BC564
12-06-2007, 03:45 PM
I had Cyano once...and used Red slime on it...it was totally gone in 2 days....and has never returned........it was on my 20 gal nano....and i just followed the instructions perfectly.

likwid
12-06-2007, 06:01 PM
I used Chemi-clean which is suppsoed to remove red slime as well, but it did nothing at all. I do a 10% WC every week.

Delphinus
12-06-2007, 07:47 PM
That's weird, I thought Chemiclean was supposed to do a pretty good job.

Could it be something else other than cyano? Can you post a picture?

likwid
12-06-2007, 09:47 PM
Sure, Ill snap a shot tonight to post. On a side note, I have had a couple dead snails in the tank for unknown reasons. The shells are still in the tank, not sure if this is attributing to any of the cyano/algae problems, but they are in a hard to reach spot. I'll try to grab them tonight after my waterchange.

likwid
12-07-2007, 12:05 AM
Here are the photos of the red slime.

http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/3641/dsc01409bi1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/923/dsc01410io5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


And a FTS so you can see all the ugly hair algae on my rocks :/

http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/383/dsc01412yt4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

BC564
12-07-2007, 03:03 PM
I had a bunch of hair algae like that also.....I used Algae magic on it for 3 consecutive days.....and it has never returned either.....but I also added a Phosban reactor on the 5th day from treatment....so I would guess that is why it hasnt come back. That looks like Cyano to me...

Reefer Rob
12-07-2007, 03:27 PM
I suppose I'm stating the obvious when I say it has to be a nutrient export issue. You could try "live rock in a bucket", or dosing iron to increase your Chaeto growth.

Also have a look at this thread.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1078532

likwid
12-07-2007, 06:23 PM
Ya I spent $60 on a bottle of Algae magic that did nothing at all for my tank.

Ill try 3 days of darkness and post the results.

BC564
12-07-2007, 06:54 PM
wow....I dont know what to tell you ......hmmm

fiorano
12-08-2007, 07:29 PM
can cyano also get all long and stringy too because i have like thick red slime on some parts of my sand that is like flowing with the water in strings?

Farrmanchu
12-09-2007, 02:22 AM
Are you using tap water? That's an insane amount of nuisance algae. I would decrease the waterchanges and feeding, maybe even lower the bioload. Manually remove the Hair Algae, and use Maracyn antibiotic on the Cyano. I've found that too many or too large of water changes can contribute to this problem, especially if you use tap water.

Johnny Reefer
12-09-2007, 03:48 AM
I used Chemi-clean which is suppsoed to remove red slime as well, but it did nothing at all. .....
Did you remove most of the problem Cyano manually? You should do this in conjunction with the Chemi-Clean. I've used Chemi-Clean with good results, and FWIW...have decided to use it regularly on a monthly basis...as the package suggests. Ya, I know....frequent chemicals in the tank, which some might not agree with, but it's working for me and keeping it in check.

Cheers,

Johnny Reefer
12-09-2007, 03:48 AM
can cyano also get all long and stringy too because i have like thick red slime on some parts of my sand that is like flowing with the water in strings?
Yes.

Black Phantom
12-09-2007, 04:13 AM
I helped a friend of mine with the exact same problem. His tank was two years old with a ton of algae and after this "amazing cure" his tank cleared up in less than a month.
Stop using water from Wally Mart, or Safeways, or Co Op. Unless you know exactly how often they change their filters then the chances are you are getting more than good RO water. Go fork out the money and buy yourself your own system. That way you can keep track and change filters accordingly.
That's my two cents worth tonight. Hope it helps:biggrin:

Skimmerking
12-09-2007, 04:13 AM
that is major phoshates in your tank get a refugium going and stick that HA in there and the will take it down some. that is what I did get some phosphate sponges to soak it up

likwid
12-11-2007, 06:32 PM
Well I did the 3 days without light technique and most of the cyano is gone. All of the hair algae remained however. I have decided to change from fill it yourself RO water from walmart, to pre bottled distilled water that says 0.01 ppm on the bottle. This will be more expensive, but I will try it out and see what happens. I have also changed the flow in my refugium so that the water flows under the baffle and up throw the liverock and chaeto, instead of just overtop of everything like before (mis-read the DIY instructions).

Reefer Rob
12-11-2007, 07:32 PM
The lights out thing seems to totally annihilate cyano, I don't know for how long. I think it might help with your hair algae if you did it regularly, say once a month. Did the lack of light have any negative effect on your corals?

likwid
12-11-2007, 09:45 PM
Nothing negative as far as I know. Yesterday was the first day with them back on, and I only put actinics on, so it is hard to gauge. My toadstool and xenia werent standing as tall as they usually do, but I think that is just temporary.

The hair algae still looks the same to me as far as I know. How does it look when they are dieing off?

Reefer Rob
12-11-2007, 10:27 PM
I didn't wait for mine to die off. I only had a few patches, and I basted mine with boiling RO/DI water (my remedy for everything :mrgreen: ) The next day there is nothing but bare rock.

Canuckgod420
12-11-2007, 10:46 PM
I dont think you should use distilled water....I cant remember where I read it but distilled is not good....I use a RODI unit but in a pinch if I need water I use my Canadian Springs bottled water(demineralized using RO).
Never had a problem using this...and maybe someone else has also heard about the negative effects using distilled.

likwid
12-11-2007, 10:56 PM
I didn't wait for mine to die off. I only had a few patches, and I basted mine with boiling RO/DI water (my remedy for everything :mrgreen: ) The next day there is nothing but bare rock.

Anything negative about basting with boiling water? Besides making sure the fish arent near it when you are basting? Will it harm the rock or my tank in any way?

Reefer Rob
12-12-2007, 03:11 AM
If you have a small tank you need to be careful not to raise the temperature too much. In any case just do a small patch at a time. The rock will be bone white for a while after, but coralline will re-establish again. Protect your corals with a shield such as an oyster shell, but the water isn't really that warm except right where you're basting. I would start by pulling as much out as you can, without letting any get loose in the water. When it's nice and short baste what remains on the rock.

likwid
12-16-2007, 01:25 AM
Ya I tried basting a patch with boiling water, and that did nothing at all to it. I also added some nitrate media in a bag and a phosphate sponge to my refugium. I'm beginning to think that this algae would survive a nuclear holocaust. I am getting very frustrated here!!

hillbillyreefer
12-16-2007, 06:55 AM
I thought that it wasn't possible to win too. I pull out algae every day. Some rocks that were infested I turned over so the algae was in the dark and slowly but surely I'm winning. Good luck with your problem, don't give up.

jasond
12-16-2007, 07:23 AM
Likwid....I have a sea hare that you are welcome to "borrow"...he loves hair algae, and now that my tank is pretty much free of it, is not finding much to eat. A couple of weeks, and I can guarantee he will have eaten his fair share. He poops, but it is a lot easier to clean than the HA :biggrin:

If you are interested just shoot me a pm.

Jason

likwid
12-16-2007, 05:49 PM
Likwid....I have a sea hare that you are welcome to "borrow"...he loves hair algae, and now that my tank is pretty much free of it, is not finding much to eat. A couple of weeks, and I can guarantee he will have eaten his fair share. He poops, but it is a lot easier to clean than the HA :biggrin:

If you are interested just shoot me a pm.

Jason

Thanks for the offer, but I am in Lethbridge and do not go up to Calgary very often.

All of my levels are good, I just dont know what to do anymore. It does not spread, it just keeps growing in the same spots all the time. Whenever I yank it out during water changes, it just starts growing back in the same spots days later. There are areas of the rock that have never seen any hair algae, but the spots with it, just wont lose it.

Myka
12-16-2007, 06:04 PM
Have you ever researched high magnesium levels as a solution to hair algae? Check this out: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1113109&highlight=hair+algae+magnesium

Aside from that, all we have are some basic details from you about your tank. If you're not into trying the Magnesium idea, then take the time to write down all your daily maintenance, weekly maintenance, monthly maintenance...everything you do to your tank and how often. Include amounts like size of waterchanges, amount of food, dosing of any additives, etc. Also include brand names, and product names. List all specs - all testing from the last 6 months; ph, amonnia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate. Also salinity, temperature, lighting hours, hardware, bulb brands, last time bulbs changed, etc. Don't leave anything out.

jasond
12-16-2007, 06:12 PM
No problem, for some reason I missed that and thought you were in calgary.

I would get a phosban reactor. It really will STOP it from growing. My sea hare ate away, but the phosban really stopped it from growing. The key was to keep the media changed during the beginning, and after a couple weeks it all pulled right out, and has not come back.

Phosban, sea hare, and hermit crabs and it will be gone!

calkrog
12-16-2007, 06:41 PM
the high magnesium solution is for bryopsis only, which is what i am batteling right now, i am trying the high mag solution, but it depends on what mag you use. apparently kent tech-m is the best solution for this, followed by epsom salts because it is magnesium sulphate and not magnesium chloride or whatever magflake is. i wish it was just high magnesium that was the solution, because then my OPP salt that was 2300 ppm mag would have taken care of it. so after lots of water changes using reefcrystal i am now able to does tech-m to battle the bryopsis. i will let everyone know as to my progress.

Matthew N
12-16-2007, 07:35 PM
I had that exact same problem, so I know what it feels like.

What seemed to be my problem was phosphate, I started to use RO water from the local grocery store and that helped alot, but at the same time it seemed to hurt coral growth which I thought was weird.

So I mixed half and half (well water and RO water) and that made a huge difference, I also increased my lighting to 120 Watts, because I noticed the hair algae was bleaching that was closer to the light, This seemed to clear all the hair algae out but the red slime started to grow like crazy.

I then bought another powerhead, and that seemed to take care of all the red slime.

Oh and I also started to pour tons of seachem's reef complete which raises calcium.

I live on the east coast so my make up water might be different then your's but I really hope this helps

Matthew

likwid
12-16-2007, 08:25 PM
I am using pre-bottled RO water from a company called Arrowhead that is less than 5 ppm per bottle. I dont think the water is the cause of this. I would try a phosban reactor, but I dont think I have room in my tank for another ugly pump. I have an aquaclear 500 converted into a hang ob back refugium, and I run a bag of rowaphos, a phosphate sponge, and a bag of de-nitrate in there along with my macroalgae and live rock rubble.

I am almost ready to give up on saltwater.

Myka
12-16-2007, 09:50 PM
I am using pre-bottled RO water from a company called Arrowhead that is less than 5 ppm per bottle. I dont think the water is the cause of this. I would try a phosban reactor, but I dont think I have room in my tank for another ugly pump. I have an aquaclear 500 converted into a hang ob back refugium, and I run a bag of rowaphos, a phosphate sponge, and a bag of de-nitrate in there along with my macroalgae and live rock rubble.

I am almost ready to give up on saltwater.

Can't help without more info. Answer the questions I laid out for you in my last post.

Sometimes there ends up being for much waste breaking down in an aquarium that the rocks and sand become loaded with phosphates and nitrates. The only decent way of fixing that problem is to break the tank down, and "cook" the rocks in a dark bin for for several weeks doing waterchanges (using RO and salt obviously) every few days, until phosphates read 0. It may also be neccessary to replace the sandbed with new sand. Since your tank has been like this for a long time, I'm lead to believe this may be your problem.

If your phosphate and nitrate test kits are reading 0 that doesn't mean anything. You have so much hair algae that it is eating all the phos and nitrate out of the water so your test kits won't read it.

Get rid of the hair algae and the cyano will follow.

likwid
12-17-2007, 02:36 PM
Have you ever researched high magnesium levels as a solution to hair algae? Check this out: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1113109&highlight=hair+algae+magnesium

Aside from that, all we have are some basic details from you about your tank. If you're not into trying the Magnesium idea, then take the time to write down all your daily maintenance, weekly maintenance, monthly maintenance...everything you do to your tank and how often. Include amounts like size of waterchanges, amount of food, dosing of any additives, etc. Also include brand names, and product names. List all specs - all testing from the last 6 months; ph, amonnia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate. Also salinity, temperature, lighting hours, hardware, bulb brands, last time bulbs changed, etc. Don't leave anything out.

I do not add any additives to my tank. I do a 15% waterchange every week using instant ocean salt and RO water. Feed hikari mysis shrimp twice a week, presoaked in water. PH: 7.8, ammonia: 0, nitrite: 0, nitrate: 10, phosphate: 0, Salinity: 0.023, temperature: 78 degrees. Photo period is 7 hours actinic, 5.5 hours actinic+daylights. Bulbs are each 36w coralifes, changed in october.

BC564
12-17-2007, 03:59 PM
Can you put a T fitting after your return pump ....put a valve on it and then feed your phosban reactor and then back into your sump.....just control your flow with the valve? Do you have room for that?

jasond
12-17-2007, 04:18 PM
Without making some changes, it is not going to get better or go away. Try to make the phosban work, it is a cheap fix. My rock was totally covered, I thought no way am I going to get rid of this stuff, and there isnt a "hair" left.

midgetwaiter
12-17-2007, 06:21 PM
This is almost always a phosphate issue but other things come into play. Ultimately you have a lot of bio load for a small tank and things like this can be difficult to solve. Up the water changes to 2g a week and see what happens.

If you want to use something like Rowaphos you really need a fluidized reactor, you don't get near the effect out of the media in a bag. Is the sponge you are using an HBH cut to fit? If so this is an aluminum based product and not a great idea for tanks with soft corals. The easiest way to deal with phosphate is using a chemical that binds and precipitates it like Blue Life Phosphate Control or Carib Phosbuster.

Making this tricky is the fact that low price phosphate kits are all sucky. You need to use something like a Merc kit to get a good idea what is really going on there as organic phosphate is harder to detect. At minimum make sure that the reagents in the kit you are using are as fresh as possible. I use a cheap one myself but I you need to keep in mind you may not have a good picture from it. Also if the source water the company uses has phosphate in it RO won't remove it. You need a DI resin to get it so don't assume it's good just because it is RO.

Alkalinity also plays a part in this. You said your pH is 7.8 which seems low for a tank with a skimmer. Do you test for this? Try and keep it at the high end of the safe range (200ppm / 7dkh / 4meg/l) hair algae hates that.

Another thing that would help are getting a bit more flow in there. Swap the power sweep for a Korallia 1 or Sieo 620.

I also noticed from your FTS that your open brain isn't showing much polyp extension. If it's usually like this try putting it on the sand, the rock rubbing on the polyp may be bothering it.

likwid
12-17-2007, 09:47 PM
This is almost always a phosphate issue but other things come into play. Ultimately you have a lot of bio load for a small tank and things like this can be difficult to solve. Up the water changes to 2g a week and see what happens.

If you want to use something like Rowaphos you really need a fluidized reactor, you don't get near the effect out of the media in a bag. Is the sponge you are using an HBH cut to fit? If so this is an aluminum based product and not a great idea for tanks with soft corals. The easiest way to deal with phosphate is using a chemical that binds and precipitates it like Blue Life Phosphate Control or Carib Phosbuster.

Making this tricky is the fact that low price phosphate kits are all sucky. You need to use something like a Merc kit to get a good idea what is really going on there as organic phosphate is harder to detect. At minimum make sure that the reagents in the kit you are using are as fresh as possible. I use a cheap one myself but I you need to keep in mind you may not have a good picture from it. Also if the source water the company uses has phosphate in it RO won't remove it. You need a DI resin to get it so don't assume it's good just because it is RO.

Alkalinity also plays a part in this. You said your pH is 7.8 which seems low for a tank with a skimmer. Do you test for this? Try and keep it at the high end of the safe range (200ppm / 7dkh / 4meg/l) hair algae hates that.

Another thing that would help are getting a bit more flow in there. Swap the power sweep for a Korallia 1 or Sieo 620.

I also noticed from your FTS that your open brain isn't showing much polyp extension. If it's usually like this try putting it on the sand, the rock rubbing on the polyp may be bothering it.

A small clownfish and BTA is too much bioload for for a 10g tank? I dont think that is the problem.

The RO water is guaranteed < 5 ppm. It is pre-bottled from the manufacturer, so I'm not too worried about the water supply.

I will try raising my ALK, and see what happens. And I guess I will try to cram a phosban reactor in there.

I dont know if I need to change my flow, the powersweep is rated 160 gph, and the aquaclear 500 on the back produces too much flow that it blows sand around.

Ill put the brain on the sand and see if that helps it as well.

Thanks for the tips.

michika
12-17-2007, 09:54 PM
You have PM.

BC564
12-17-2007, 10:27 PM
sorry....I misread something....its a 10 gal tank? I wouldnt worry about the phosban reactor ....I would check your water quality of the water used for your changes...and maybe slightly increase them...maybe not in quantity but in frequency....

TANGOMAN
12-17-2007, 10:35 PM
As mentioned, RO is good but the resins in DI will eliminate compounds which are suspended in a liquid form. Phosphates were mentioned, silicates are another pottential nutrient for the nucience algae. I've been there and replacing the DI resins made the difference. It's a small system which makes it very unstable! Change your Source water, try a different salt too. Keep it simple and stick to the basics. It's a crappy battle, I think we've all been there.

Myka
12-18-2007, 04:09 AM
I do not add any additives to my tank. I do a 15% waterchange every week using instant ocean salt and RO water. Feed hikari mysis shrimp twice a week, presoaked in water. PH: 7.8, ammonia: 0, nitrite: 0, nitrate: 10, phosphate: 0, Salinity: 0.023, temperature: 78 degrees. Photo period is 7 hours actinic, 5.5 hours actinic+daylights. Bulbs are each 36w coralifes, changed in october.

What brand test kits are you using?

Do you not test for Calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium? These are very important for the health of your corals, and is used by them on a daily basis. Calcium and Alkalinity usually have the be supplemented. Hair algae LOVES low Calcium, Alkalinity, and magnesium. Considering you are using IO salt, and not supplementing, then it is very possible that your Cal/Alk levels are low. Calcium should be 400-425 ppm, and Alkalinity should be 8-10 dkh (err on the high side). Magnesium should be 1350-1400 ppm. Your low pH leads me to believe that your Alk may be low as well (see below).

When you do waterchanges do you siphon off as much detritus from the rocks and sandbed as possible? This can definately help lower the waste in the tank. Hair algae traps detritus in it (which is how it helps itself to grow), and using a turkey baster daily to blow any detritus out of the hair algae may help as well.

When you say you "presoak" your food, do you pour the water off, or do you just soak it in water and dump the whole thing in the tank? I would suggest you feed your fish at least once every second day. Twice a week is pretty tough on a digestive system (smaller fish) that is designed to constantly be eating.

How often do you clean your skimmer? How much skimmate do you get in the cup each week?

That's all I see provided the information you gave.

Alkalinity also plays a part in this. You said your pH is 7.8 which seems low for a tank with a skimmer. Do you test for this? Try and keep it at the high end of the safe range (200ppm / 7dkh / 4meg/l) hair algae hates that.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Low pH is often related (although not necessarily directly) to your Alkalinity level, so your low pH makes me suspect low Alkalinity. 7 dkh is not the high end - that is in fact the low end. Alk should be 6-12 dkh, with 8-10 dkh considered "normal". I keep my Alk as close to 10 dkh as I can. Many people who run ZEOvit keep their Alk in the 12-14 dkh range.

BC564
12-18-2007, 03:44 PM
I am using Calgary tap water for my aquariums and here is the water parameters. I have had one bout with hair algae. It seems odd to have a battle with this for so long esp. using RO water. There must be something in your source water...

http://www.calgary.ca/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_0_771_203_0_43/http%3B/content.calgary.ca/CCA/City+Hall/Business+Units/Water+Services/Drinking+Water/Annual+Water+Quality+Report/Water+Quality+Parameters.htm

likwid
12-18-2007, 03:51 PM
What brand test kits are you using?

Do you not test for Calcium and Alkalinity? These are very important for the health of your corals, and is used by them on a daily basis. Calcium and Alkalinity usually have the be supplemented. Hair algae LOVES low Calcium and low Alkalinity. Considering you are using IO salt, and not supplementing, then it is very possible that your Cal/Alk levels are low. Calcium should be 400-425 ppm, and Alkalinity should be 8-10 dkh (err on the high side). Your low pH leads me to believe that your Alk may be low as well (see below).

When you do waterchanges do you siphon off as much detritus from the rocks and sandbed as possible? This can definately help lower the waste in the tank. Hair algae traps detritus in it (which is how it helps itself to grow), and using a turkey baster daily to blow any detritus out of the hair algae may help as well.

When you say you "presoak" your food, do you pour the water off, or do you just soak it in water and dump the whole thing in the tank? I would suggest you feed your fish at least once every second day. Twice a week is pretty tough on a digestive system (smaller fish) that is designed to constantly be eating.

How often do you clean your skimmer? How much skimmate do you get in the cup each week?

That's all I see provided the information you gave.



This is exactly what I was thinking. Low pH is often related (although not necessarily directly) to your Alkalinity level, so your low pH makes me suspect low Alkalinity. 7 dkh is not the high end - that is in fact the low end. Alk should be 6-12 dkh, with 8-10 dkh considered "normal". I keep my Alk as close to 10 dkh as I can. Many people who run ZEOvit keep their Alk in the 12-14 dkh range.


I believe the kits I am using are salifert. I am not testing for Calcium and Alk right now, I will have to run out and grab those kits. I'll grab some calc/alk additives as well and make sure those are in the correct range.

I do siphon everytime I do a waterchange, and baste the hair a few times daily into my skimmer.

When I presoak my food, I just pinch the frozen mysis in my fingers and run tap water through it to melt it and rinse away gunk from it.

I clean my skimmer every couple weeks, and only get around 1/8 of a cup a week. Seems really low to me.

I did a waterchange last night and ripped out as much hair algae as I could, and when I hooked my skimmer back up it was going crazy. The collection cup would overflow with bubbles in like 30 seconds. I turned it off and tried again this morning and it is still going nuts. Any ideas why it would be doing this?

likwid
12-19-2007, 02:45 PM
bump

Slick Fork
12-19-2007, 05:32 PM
Clean your skimmer weekly. Make sure you get the neck clean, I find mine skims best about a day or so after a good scrubbing. Being that prolific, I'm thinking your algae may be a bryopsis strain rather than straight hair algae. Could we get some close up shots?

I'll second the boiling RO water suggestion. Just do a small bit at a time.

BC564
12-19-2007, 05:55 PM
can you add pump your ro water from one container to another ...and put a UV sterilizer in the flow?

likwid
12-19-2007, 07:08 PM
Clean your skimmer weekly. Make sure you get the neck clean, I find mine skims best about a day or so after a good scrubbing. Being that prolific, I'm thinking your algae may be a bryopsis strain rather than straight hair algae. Could we get some close up shots?

I'll second the boiling RO water suggestion. Just do a small bit at a time.

Ya it definately looks like hair algae, but has the bulletproof characteristics of bryopsis. I can try to get some close ups, but my camera really sucks.

What do you mean by boiling RO water a small bit at a time?

Reefer Rob
12-19-2007, 07:38 PM
The key to basting with boiling water is to get the end of the baster right next to the rock, and squeeze the baster very slowly while doing small circular motions. If it's done right nothing can live through it. Sometimes I push a short piece of 1/2" tubing over the end of the baster to cover a larger area with a slower flow.

Slick Fork
12-20-2007, 04:48 AM
I meant baste a small patch of algae at a time. If you try to nuke it all at once you'll run the risk of a mini cycle as I'm willing to bet that at this point the algae is absorbing large amounts of the ammonia produced by the critters.

Myka
12-20-2007, 05:04 AM
I believe the kits I am using are salifert. I am not testing for Calcium and Alk right now, I will have to run out and grab those kits. I'll grab some calc/alk additives as well and make sure those are in the correct range.

I do siphon everytime I do a waterchange, and baste the hair a few times daily into my skimmer.

When I presoak my food, I just pinch the frozen mysis in my fingers and run tap water through it to melt it and rinse away gunk from it.

I clean my skimmer every couple weeks, and only get around 1/8 of a cup a week. Seems really low to me.

I did a waterchange last night and ripped out as much hair algae as I could, and when I hooked my skimmer back up it was going crazy. The collection cup would overflow with bubbles in like 30 seconds. I turned it off and tried again this morning and it is still going nuts. Any ideas why it would be doing this?

Awesome! I am interested to hear what your Cal/Alk readings are. Kent Liquid Calcium is very good and easy to use. It is expensive when used on large tanks, but your tank shouldn't go through much, I use it on my 33, and it's cheap. I use SeaChem Reef buffer (not the pH one!!!) for Alk...it's a good product as well. Don't buy any products that directly alter your pH. Even though yours is low the last thing you want is a swinging pH level, and that's exactly what you'll get with pH altering additives.

That is low production of skimmate. You have a Remora Nano right? Does it have an adjustment screw like the regular Remoras and the Remora Pros? If so, play around with it (turned off!! lol it sucks when it's on and you accidentally unscrew it all the way). I find the more I screw mine in the more skimmate it produces. So I have mine screwed in all the way, and then the skimmer cup propped up as high as I can get it. I seem to get the best skimmate this way.

Not sure why it would be going crazy since what you said you did doesn't correlate to it freaking out.

likwid
12-20-2007, 06:21 PM
Awesome! I am interested to hear what your Cal/Alk readings are. Kent Liquid Calcium is very good and easy to use. It is expensive when used on large tanks, but your tank shouldn't go through much, I use it on my 33, and it's cheap. I use SeaChem Reef buffer (not the pH one!!!) for Alk...it's a good product as well. Don't buy any products that directly alter your pH. Even though yours is low the last thing you want is a swinging pH level, and that's exactly what you'll get with pH altering additives.

That is low production of skimmate. You have a Remora Nano right? Does it have an adjustment screw like the regular Remoras and the Remora Pros? If so, play around with it (turned off!! lol it sucks when it's on and you accidentally unscrew it all the way). I find the more I screw mine in the more skimmate it produces. So I have mine screwed in all the way, and then the skimmer cup propped up as high as I can get it. I seem to get the best skimmate this way.

Not sure why it would be going crazy since what you said you did doesn't correlate to it freaking out.


Unfortunately none of the local stores here sell those test kits or additives, so I cannot check until my next trip up to Calgary.

There is an adjustment screw, but it is screwed in as tight as it can go already. I have my collection cup as low as it can go as well. If I put it up any higher it would not collect anything.

On a side note, I tried basting with hot water again, and put the baster right near the root of the hair algae and it did nothing at all. Today the spots I basted are looking alive and healthy as ever.

Also, I have quite a bit of live rock in my fuge and those have never had any algae growth on them. They look perfect. Shouldnt the algae be growing on those rocks mainly? My chaeto doesnt grow very fast either. I have my fuge light on a reverse cycle, so its on around 16 hours a day.

calkrog
12-20-2007, 08:02 PM
Also, I have quite a bit of live rock in my fuge and those have never had any algae growth on them. They look perfect. Shouldnt the algae be growing on those rocks mainly? My chaeto doesnt grow very fast either. I have my fuge light on a reverse cycle, so its on around 16 hours a day.

you may just want to run 24hrs on your fuge and dose iron to stimulate your cheato to grow a bit more. then it should out compete some of the hair.

Myka
12-21-2007, 01:21 AM
Unfortunately none of the local stores here sell those test kits or additives, so I cannot check until my next trip up to Calgary.

There is an adjustment screw, but it is screwed in as tight as it can go already. I have my collection cup as low as it can go as well. If I put it up any higher it would not collect anything.

On a side note, I tried basting with hot water again, and put the baster right near the root of the hair algae and it did nothing at all. Today the spots I basted are looking alive and healthy as ever.

Also, I have quite a bit of live rock in my fuge and those have never had any algae growth on them. They look perfect. Shouldnt the algae be growing on those rocks mainly? My chaeto doesnt grow very fast either. I have my fuge light on a reverse cycle, so its on around 16 hours a day.

Try adjusting the screw out then...? Make an adjustment and wait a few days to see if does good or bad, then adjust again.

I agree - try 24 hour fuge lighting.

likwid
01-03-2008, 06:18 PM
Try adjusting the screw out then...? Make an adjustment and wait a few days to see if does good or bad, then adjust again.

I agree - try 24 hour fuge lighting.

I have been doing 24 fuge lighting and my chaeto is growing like mad, it doubles in size every few days, but the hair algae is not slowing down one bit. I siphoned off a whole bunch after my last water change, but it has all grown back since. I ordered a reef test kit from JL last wednesday and am still waiting for it to arrive so I can test all the other params.

bv_reefer
01-03-2008, 07:15 PM
i know how it is, it can over grow everything, when my tank was about 2 months running my hair algae got so bad i couldn't even consider any more corals, so i tried that scalding water in a water bottle procedure, and i did that maybe 3-4 times followed by a couple 20% water changes as albert dao recommended and since then i've been nuisance algae-free for 5 months, no hair,bubble, or plate algae. you might want to try it out- i got it from michikas hair algae thread a couple months ago- :wink: good luck-

Reefer Rob
01-03-2008, 07:17 PM
I have been doing 24 fuge lighting and my chaeto is growing like mad, it doubles in size every few days, but the hair algae is not slowing down one bit. I siphoned off a whole bunch after my last water change, but it has all grown back since. I ordered a reef test kit from JL last wednesday and am still waiting for it to arrive so I can test all the other params.

If you're getting that kind of growth you are putting way too many nutrients into your system, it's as simple as that. Chaeto won't grow without fertilizer.

likwid
01-03-2008, 07:30 PM
i know how it is, it can over grow everything, when my tank was about 2 months running my hair algae got so bad i couldn't even consider any more corals, so i tried that scalding water in a water bottle procedure, and i did that maybe 3-4 times followed by a couple 20% water changes as albert dao recommended and since then i've been nuisance algae-free for 5 months, no hair,bubble, or plate algae. you might want to try it out- i got it from michikas hair algae thread a couple months ago- :wink: good luck-

I tried boiling water in a pot and then blowing it right into the rock where the hair algae is rooted with a turkey baster and it did nothing at all. Am I doing something wrong?

If you're getting that kind of growth you are putting way too many nutrients into your system, it's as simple as that. Chaeto won't grow without fertilizer.

How am I putting nutrients in? I feed mysis lightly twice a week and use < 2 PPM water for WC's and top ups. I dont understand.

bv_reefer
01-03-2008, 07:59 PM
it's the turkey baster likwid, thats what i tried first but with a baster the water is cooled too fast, not too good, then i bought one of those water bottles with a fold down mouth piece and straw, and slowly let it linger over the hair algae, siphoned a bit out, 20% water change, i cut down on meaty feedings like brine shrimp and phytoplankton for about 10 days and thats about it. I wish i could be more help but everyones tanks so different it's hard to say. What really set me off is that my nitrates we're very low at the same time as i had the bloom! mind you i never tested my phosphates and i would not doubt if thy we're high

likwid
01-03-2008, 08:01 PM
it's the turkey baster likwid, thats what i tried first but with a baster the water is cooled too fast, not too good, then i bought one of those water bottles with a fold down mouth piece and straw, and slowly let it linger over the hair algae, siphoned a bit out, 20% water change, i cut down on meaty feedings like brine shrimp and phytoplankton for about 10 days and thats about it. I wish i could be more help but everyones tanks so different it's hard to say. What really set me off is that my nitrates we're very low at the same time as i had the bloom! mind you i never tested my phosphates and i would not doubt if thy we're high

Hmm, I'm not sure how the water could cool too fast. I boil the water and bring the pot over next to the tank while its still boiling, suck it up with the baster and quickly put it in the tank to baste. Where did you buy that water bottle? Maybe I'll go out and grab one tonight to try that.

bv_reefer
01-03-2008, 08:08 PM
just bought it at the dollar store, i just made sure there we're no inverts or corals near by, my hair algae was literally smothering my condy anemone so it was kinda ackward squirting scalding water at the algae, i think if i remember correctly you're supposed to let it linger very slowly over the algae, it was pretty neat as corraline took over the rock right away as soon as i got rid of the GHA

bv_reefer
01-03-2008, 08:14 PM
-heres the thread from while back hope it helps
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=34686&page=5&highlight=green+hair+algae

likwid
01-03-2008, 08:27 PM
-heres the thread from while back hope it helps
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=34686&page=5&highlight=green+hair+algae

Thanks for the link. So you boil the water in a pot, fill up the bottle, and then stick it in your tank and squeeze the water out slowly onto the hair algae?

michika
01-03-2008, 08:55 PM
Yup, that is how it is done.

It didn't work for me unfortunately. In the end it was my urchin that cleaned it up and off the rocks.

likwid
01-03-2008, 08:59 PM
Yup, that is how it is done.

It didn't work for me unfortunately. In the end it was my urchin that cleaned it up and off the rocks.

What kind of urchin, and will it fit in a 10g tank? I had a Sea Hare for a few days before it got sucked into an intake, but in those 2 days it would just sniff the stuff and not eat any of it. It pooped like crazy though.

bv_reefer
01-03-2008, 09:12 PM
Thanks for the link. So you boil the water in a pot, fill up the bottle, and then stick it in your tank and squeeze the water out slowly onto the hair algae?
ya pretty much, and other obvious things like cutting down on feedings helped me, i think coral feedings were my main contributor

bv_reefer
01-03-2008, 09:18 PM
my sailfin tang ate some but definitely not enough to keep the scourge under control

michika
01-03-2008, 09:53 PM
What kind of urchin, and will it fit in a 10g tank? I had a Sea Hare for a few days before it got sucked into an intake, but in those 2 days it would just sniff the stuff and not eat any of it. It pooped like crazy though.

I have a longspine urchin.

likwid
01-09-2008, 01:16 AM
Finally got my test kit in. Params are as follows:

Calcium - 300 mg/L
Alk - 11.2 dKH
PH - 8.2
Nitrate - 0
Phostphate - 0
Salinity - 1.021

hillbillyreefer
01-09-2008, 03:13 AM
I picked up a tuxedo urchin on Saturday to help out with my GHA problem. He's about 4" across so they should fit in a 10 gallon. If you get one it may require feeding eventually. Mine leaves a path free of GHA after he passes over. Moves pretty slowly and is going to be a while cleaning up my 24 gal but is doing a great job. As an added bonus I think it's one of the coolest critters in the tank. The urchin has done more cleaning in three days than the rest of my CUC has done in four months.HTH

He seems to be a consumer of coraline also.

Brad

likwid
01-10-2008, 06:24 PM
How are my levels? Do I need to increase/decrease any?

likwid
01-11-2008, 02:23 PM
bump

dsaundry
01-11-2008, 03:36 PM
Looking at your last reading, I might suggest you bump the salinity up to 1.023. One question I have though is what type of salt are you using. I was told by another reefer that for reef tanks he found that TM worked best for him. Less dosing was one of the benefits he stated. I am going to try it next time but right now I am using IO in my 72g. I did have a hair algae issue a little while ago and in my case narrowed it down to overfeeding. I didn't think I was at first but after looking at how some other reefers fed their tank I determined I was. I seem to have it under control as in the last 2 weeks it has virtually dissappeared. I also used rowaphos in my aquaclear 500 as well.
Hope this helps.:)

michika
01-11-2008, 03:55 PM
Are you doing a hyposalinity treatment on your system? If you aren't I'd bump your SG up to 1.025-1.026, assuming you have inverts, its from what I've read is the best level for them.

likwid
01-11-2008, 04:13 PM
Looking at your last reading, I might suggest you bump the salinity up to 1.023. One question I have though is what type of salt are you using. I was told by another reefer that for reef tanks he found that TM worked best for him. Less dosing was one of the benefits he stated. I am going to try it next time but right now I am using IO in my 72g. I did have a hair algae issue a little while ago and in my case narrowed it down to overfeeding. I didn't think I was at first but after looking at how some other reefers fed their tank I determined I was. I seem to have it under control as in the last 2 weeks it has virtually dissappeared. I also used rowaphos in my aquaclear 500 as well.
Hope this helps.:)

I am using IO salt. How much/often do you feed? And how much/often would you feed a 10g tank with 1 clownfish, corals and a bubbletip anemone.

Are you doing a hyposalinity treatment on your system? If you aren't I'd bump your SG up to 1.025-1.026, assuming you have inverts, its from what I've read is the best level for them.

I am not doing a hyposalinity treatment, that is one of the safe levels that is shown on my crappy little hydrometer, so thats what I have been keeping it at.

michika
01-11-2008, 04:21 PM
Its up to you where you want to keep your SG at. I just read and was told that 25 & 26 are "optimal" for inverts like shrimp. 1.021 I believe is a midpoint in hyposalinity treatments.

Take a look at say reef keeping magazine, and maybe advanced aquarist for more info on SG and make a decision from there.

dsaundry
01-11-2008, 04:40 PM
I feed twice a day. I use a baster and squirt a tiny bit into the anenome that I have, and into my sun corals. I also just put a tiny bit in so the fish can get it. Everything seems fine. Even the fish seem ok with this. I have a 72g bowfront with a sailfin tang, a foxface, a couple of percs, some stupid chromis's that I used to help cycle the tank and cant get out now. 2 manderin dragonettes that are fat and happy and a sea hare[newest addition]
I think tou said you tried a seahare but it got sucked into one of the powerheads? I had this problem with an anenome and seemed to have remedied it by cutting and fitting some filter sponges around the inlets. So far so good. In a smaller tank it wouldnt take much to spike the phosphate and unfortunately even a test kit cant pick it up as it absorbs into the rock. The water may read zero's but the rock may have tons in it and with regular water changes and rowaphos or a phosban system it will decrease over time. One more thing..with feeding. It would have apeared to me when I started my reduction in the amount I fed all the fish wouldnt have enough food. I thought that with all the filtration I had in my tank it would absorb any excess amounts..it didnt. Forgot one other thing. What type of cleaner crew do you have..just snails??

likwid
01-11-2008, 06:31 PM
Right now I only feed around 3 times a week. Usually a pinch of formula one flake or a tiny bit of frozen mysis that I pre-soak to thaw. I baste the mysis like you do and squirt it into the anemone. I really dont think I am overfeeding at all.

My cleanup crew consists of around 6 ceriths, 2 astea, 1 turbo, 2 sand sifting snails, and 4 blue leg hermits.

I also run a hang on back fuge filled with live rock and chaeto.

Myka
01-11-2008, 06:34 PM
Hydrometers are notoriously inaccurate. You should calibrate your hydrometer as it is very likely that it is not reading right. Mine reads 0.002 lower than what the salinity actually is. Now that I know this, I am able to keep my tank's salinity where I actually want it! I keep my tank at 1.026. Your tank at 1.021 is very low. I would suggest raising it up to 1.026 which is the average salinity of the world's oceans that our critters come from, and also the most common level aquarists keep theirs at. :)

Here is a link to calibrate your hydrometer: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/rhf/index.php

Myka
01-11-2008, 06:38 PM
My cleanup crew consists of around 6 ceriths, 2 astea, 1 turbo, 2 sand sifting snails, and 4 blue leg hermits.

Holy wowzers!! This may be your problem. The cleanup crew also give off waste. They may eat algae but they also poop!! You have more clean up crew in your 10g than I do in my 33g. I would suggest you cut this down to maybe 1 Cerith, 1 Astraea, 2 Nassarius (I'm assuming this is what you mean by sand sifting snails?), and 2 hermits. Although I would think that 2 hermits and 1 Astraea are likely to be able to keep a tank that size clean. I would take the rest to your LFS. The Turbo in particular is a huge dumptruck of poop.

digital-audiophile
01-11-2008, 06:58 PM
This is what has always confused me. You see in many places that it is recommended that you have 1 crab per gallon and 1 snail per 1/2 gallon.

I have always found this to be extreme.

michika
01-11-2008, 07:15 PM
I always hear the other way, 1 crab per 1/2g and 1 snail per g. Really just pick what you find best. For me I find more snails work best for me. If you find your cleaning crew works for you, stick with it, if not make changes.

I don't think your clean up crew is the source of your algae problems. It also sounds like you have feeding more then under control. Have you tested your salt for phosphates?

Myka
01-11-2008, 07:23 PM
This is what has always confused me. You see in many places that it is recommended that you have 1 crab per gallon and 1 snail per 1/2 gallon.

I have always found this to be extreme.

I agree. I have found the "suggested" clean up crews from LFSs to be quite extreme. I think it's really just a money maker...

dsaundry
01-12-2008, 01:07 AM
Ok it souds like you are not overfeeding and as for your clean-up crew, I think that is plenty. I didn't see in previous threads but do you dose with Iodine? If you do, stop for a bit. There are several articles about dosing with Iodine, Pro's+Con's. I still dose as well. There was an interesting article about how Iodine can enhance algae growth as well. So a little becomes a lot. I can sure see why you are frustrated though. If I had hair and it was my tank I would be pulling it all out. Hope this helps.:biggrin:

Myka
03-18-2008, 07:36 PM
Any updates?