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surgeonfish
12-03-2007, 06:43 AM
I have been running my current tank for 2 years and have had some algae problems and my nitrates are always at 5. I have tried Reef-resh for only a few months and did find some improvement with my few SPS corals. I have decided to try the ZEOvit system as it also employs the low nutrient philosophy, but also uses zeolites with a reactor. I wanted to let everyone know what I am doing and if it is worth the effort and $$$$. I will try and show pictures of the corals on a regular bases as the health of the corals is what it is all about.

1. Gross water volume of your complete system (incl. sump etc.)
320
2. Net water volume (incl. sump etc.)
280
3. Are you using a CaCO2 reactor or other technique?
no
4. Are you using a PO4 reactor (how long, how long ago, etc.)?
Two TLF reactors in series for 1 year, now stopped
5. Are you using Ozone?
no
6. Are you using UV?
just stopped
7. What skimmer are you using (type, rated water volume)?
Euro-Reef RC250, recommended Tank Size: 250 Gallons
8. What are your actual PO4 and NO3 levels?
PO4: 0.02-0.03 (Hanna), NO3: 5
9. What are your actual Ca, Alk and Mg levels?
Ca: 512, Alk: 7-8, Mg: 1550
10. What filtration method do you use (refugium, DSB, Miracle Mud, etc.)?
Live rock + skimmer + Deep sand bed
11. Type of light (Watt, color temp, how old, etc.)?
XM 400W 10000K x 2 + 56W actinic CF
12. What corals do you keep?
50% LPS + 50% SPS
13. Tissue color (light or dark)?
all are moderately dark
14. How long has the tank been running?
2 years
15. Why do you want to use the ZEOvit system?
more growth and more colorful for SPS
16. Any supplemental dosing (type, amount, why, etc.)?
Kalk via kalkreactor on hold b/c calcium too high
17. Live rock (how much, how old, etc.)?
220 pound, two years old
18. Present dosing, amounts and intervals (ZEOvit, ZEObak, ZEOfood, ZEOstart, ZEOspur2, etc.)?
ZEOvit - 2 litres with 100 ml/hr flow
ZEObak - 10 drops/day
ZEOfood7 - 10 drops/day
ZEOstart2 - 2.5 ml every morning & 2.5 ml every evening
19. Other water parameters and water stability (salinity, temp, etc.)
1.024, PH7.9-8.0

The Zeovit system arrived last week. I was hoping for the larger ZR150 reactor, but the smaller ZR110 (2.8 litre) reactor arrived which I think is actually going to be too small.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k301/Surgeonfish/DSC_1118.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k301/Surgeonfish/DSC_1116.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k301/Surgeonfish/DSC_1121.jpg

I was told by various individuals with reactors that you could control the rate as you are supposed to run it slower initially. I had to make my own flow value. I couldn't find one at any local store as the reactor comes with metric plumbing.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k301/Surgeonfish/DSC_1124.jpg

Here is my corals before starting the ZEOvit system. Sorry, I was in a hurry so they are poor quality. I will try and update my progress and add pictures regularly.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k301/Surgeonfish/DSC_1133.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k301/Surgeonfish/DSC_1142.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k301/Surgeonfish/DSC_1138.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k301/Surgeonfish/DSC_1145.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k301/Surgeonfish/DSC_1149.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k301/Surgeonfish/DSC_1152.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k301/Surgeonfish/DSC_1157.jpg

Sorry for the long post

albert_dao
12-03-2007, 07:01 AM
People should never be sorry for long posts. They're usually more relevant and intersting.

Anyway, back to Zeo; I suspect you'll be pleasantly surprised with the performance of the system. I've spoken to a few people (SEAN, SPEAK UP DUDE) who had some particularily eye-opening readings after starting up Zeo.

Psyire
12-03-2007, 07:35 AM
Quick note: Not a good idea to restrict flow to a pump on the suction side. I'd put that valve on the discharge side instead.

Good luck with your setup!

cprowler
12-03-2007, 01:15 PM
Hi Shane, I am considering trying Zeo also. My system is also 2 years old and I have been using Reefresh with limited results. I will most likely start Zeo in the new year, I look forward to following along.

Slick Fork
12-03-2007, 02:22 PM
Hi Shane,

I just started my zeo program last night as well so we'll see how it goes. Looking forward to seeing your results!

surgeonfish
12-03-2007, 04:41 PM
[QUOTE=Psyire;285216]Quick note: Not a good idea to restrict flow to a pump on the suction side. I'd put that valve on the discharge side instead.

Thanks for the advice. I couldn't find any other way to restrict the flow. The outlet side is all metric sized plumbing. It will only be short term. Once the system becomes low nutrient (usually 3-6 months) I will use the full flow rate (~300 ml/hr).

Jason McK
12-03-2007, 05:09 PM
Shane,
I would get the larger Reactor unless this one can hold 3L. you will need the reactor that can hold 3L plus be able to pump it.

Also, you can, instead of restricting the flow through the reactor just run it 3 hour on 3 hours off.

J

surgeonfish
12-03-2007, 05:34 PM
Shane,
I would get the larger Reactor unless this one can hold 3L. you will need the reactor that can hold 3L plus be able to pump it.

Also, you can, instead of restricting the flow through the reactor just run it 3 hour on 3 hours off.

J

Jason
I agree. I am only using 2 litre of ZEOvit, but will need to add 2.8 litres when the system is low nutrient. However, even with only 2 litre, I have spilled some of the zeoliths into the outlet pipe trying to pump the reactor.

I am also running the reactor pump 3 hours on and 3 hours off. Are you running the ZEOvit system? If so how long have been using it and what are your results?

Thanks,
Shane

nanopodreefer
12-03-2007, 06:13 PM
Surgeonfish, like the pictures, before and after, looking forward to the results. If you don't mind, I think that this would be a great place to get a Zeovit discussion going. I like the idea of Zeovit, but continue the research...

Why not share our thoughts/experiences on the pros/cons/theories and even DIY ideas re: Zeovit, all while observing Surgeonfish's tests.

I originally posted this quote below in another thread but it kinda got lost. Anyways I found this quote over at that the TalkingReef. There is a discussion there also if anyone wants extra reading.

The guy below, Anthony Calfo, seems to be some sort of author and reefer extraordinaire maybe??? :razz:
____________

"Zeo-stragegy" is overall sound (albeit risky - see below) husbandry and can work with very good results when strictly adhered to.

It is not for the casual or poorly funded aquarist

It is very much for the Acroporid specialist (be sure you fit this description... see below)

It is "risky" in the sense that it aggressively manages nutrients to the extent that corals are walking a fine line of "colorful evident FPs and not overly fertilized zoox." That can (and obviously does vis a vis the reef and some beautiful Zeo-tanksin kind) work well for nearly fully autotrophic species (a corrupt generalization here... but meaning species that are mostly photosynethtic and not heavy organismal feeders) in tanks with decent fish loads (namely Acro displays)... but with any sudden change in nutrient levels or on systems with "hungrier" corals (less nearly autotrophic corals as most all we keep are other than Acros, Xenia, eg)... it can be dangerous.

And finally... it is not for casual intermediate aquarists or beginners at all because of the discipline required to apply it, the knowledge required to understand and finesse it... and the very focus (Acroporid displays) of its intended use (IMO) which preclude beginners necessarily (we do not recommend Acroporid tanks for most newbies).

Zeovit strategy is but one of the many successful ways to run a reef tank. And if you fit the above criterion, then you may well be suited for it.

Anthony Calfo
__________________

Looking forward to everyone's thoughts.

nanopodreefer
12-03-2007, 06:20 PM
And Jason McK was nice enough to reply on the other thread with this comment.

Shane thanks for posting all your info and such good questions for people to consider.. good luck! :biggrin:

I Will be the fist to disagree with Mr. Calfo.
you can see a ton of LPS/SPS tanks with very health Blastos, Hammer, Bubble, Ricordia and many other common LPS. I myself have a 10 inch hammer coral that is thriving in the ZEO environment.
Also I have been struggling as of late with really low Alk like 4 DKH. This has had negative effects on my SPS but not anything more than what could be expected. the fact that I am on Zeovit has not heightened the the issue because my levels are unstable.

there are many additives in the ZEO system that "enhance" coral colour. but most of them are through feeding or increasing levels of elements that aid in the colouration of the corals flesh. YES ZEO creates a low nutrient environment. But is what ZEO strips from the water something corals would other wise be using? I personally think in a closed system it is better to remove the rotting food waste and add a controlled levels of supplements that will benefit the coral.
I could go on but need my sleep.

J

steve fedyk
12-03-2007, 06:23 PM
I've been reading about the Zeovit system for about a week and seen lots a pictures a on how well it works. Thinking of giving it a try in the new year. Couple of the guys and gals at my LFS have been useing it for four mounths to just a couple of weeks. One just started the program about three weeks ago and said he saw a big differance in colour after two weeks.
Sounds like all you need is carbon a good skimmer and Ca reactor.

Keep posting pictures on progress, thanks:mrgreen:

Der_Iron_Chef
12-03-2007, 06:31 PM
My biggest beef with Zeovit is the price of the reactor....because, really, it's the simplest construct in the history of DIY. But that's it--the results speak for themselves. I've also been thinking about trying Zeovit, so I'm also looking into making my own reactor.

albert_dao
12-03-2007, 06:32 PM
Surgeonfish, like the pictures, before and after, looking forward to the results. If you don't mind, I think that this would be a great place to get a Zeovit discussion going. I like the idea of Zeovit, but continue the research...

Why not share our thoughts/experiences on the pros/cons/theories and even DIY ideas re: Zeovit, all while observing Surgeonfish's tests.

I originally posted this quote below in another thread but it kinda got lost. Anyways I found this quote over at that the TalkingReef. There is a discussion there also if anyone wants extra reading.

The guy below, Anthony Calfo, seems to be some sort of author and reefer extraordinaire maybe??? :razz:
____________

"Zeo-stragegy" is overall sound (albeit risky - see below) husbandry and can work with very good results when strictly adhered to.

It is not for the casual or poorly funded aquarist

It is very much for the Acroporid specialist (be sure you fit this description... see below)

It is "risky" in the sense that it aggressively manages nutrients to the extent that corals are walking a fine line of "colorful evident FPs and not overly fertilized zoox." That can (and obviously does vis a vis the reef and some beautiful Zeo-tanksin kind) work well for nearly fully autotrophic species (a corrupt generalization here... but meaning species that are mostly photosynethtic and not heavy organismal feeders) in tanks with decent fish loads (namely Acro displays)... but with any sudden change in nutrient levels or on systems with "hungrier" corals (less nearly autotrophic corals as most all we keep are other than Acros, Xenia, eg)... it can be dangerous.

And finally... it is not for casual intermediate aquarists or beginners at all because of the discipline required to apply it, the knowledge required to understand and finesse it... and the very focus (Acroporid displays) of its intended use (IMO) which preclude beginners necessarily (we do not recommend Acroporid tanks for most newbies).

Zeovit strategy is but one of the many successful ways to run a reef tank. And if you fit the above criterion, then you may well be suited for it.

Anthony Calfo
__________________

Looking forward to everyone's thoughts.

I guess my first question would be "Has Anthony Calfo ever tried Zeovit?"

I don't believe he has.

I use the system at the store to great effect. I have a thriving tank full of Xenia, Acanthastrea, Kenya Tree, Acropora, Bird'snest, Candy Canes, yadda, yadda, you get the idea. All are thriving and I'm not operating on thin ice.

GTG right now, but I'll be back later to post my experiences.

Tom R
12-03-2007, 06:51 PM
Shane,
Also, you can, instead of restricting the flow through the reactor just run it 3 hour on 3 hours off.

J

I have been using ZEOvit for 1 year now, my tank was 4 years old when i started the ZEOvit system. As Jason McK says just run your pump 3 hours on and 3 hours off. However you must ensure that the ZEOlites are continually covered in water. If the water level in the sump does not cover the ZEOlites when the pump is off you will have to come up with another way of reducing the flow. I also agree with Jason in exchanging the reactor for a larger one. My system is approx 500G with a net estimated dosing level of 350G. When I exchange the ZEOlites I leave one liter of the previous and add 2 liters of new.

Tom

Delphinus
12-03-2007, 06:58 PM
I'm with Drew. The cost of the reactor is a bit of a turn-off but if you can get past that, the results do speak for themselves.

Jason McK
12-03-2007, 06:58 PM
Are you running the ZEOvit system? If so how long have been using it and what are your results?

Thanks,
Shane

Yes I am running Zeovit. I've been running it for 16 months now. I have nothing but positive things to say about it. I feel a lot of my corals have intensified in colour, while others that had great colour to begin stayed the same.

J

andestang
12-03-2007, 07:21 PM
My biggest beef with Zeovit is the price of the reactor....because, really, it's the simplest construct in the history of DIY. But that's it--the results speak for themselves. I've also been thinking about trying Zeovit, so I'm also looking into making my own reactor.

That is also one of the long delays for me to get started up, so I just finished making my own reactor. It cost me about $85 (including the pump) and probably made it a little more fancy than I had to.

andestang
12-03-2007, 07:24 PM
Shane,I noticed you also have the K-Balance, thats one thing I did'nt get.Are you using it right away ? I have'nt read anywhere wether to use it at the beginning or not. Albert, Jason your thoughts ?

Doug
12-03-2007, 07:26 PM
So if I may question something, just as a point of discussion. We so many beautiful sps and mixed reef aquariums not running zeovit. Several stunning sps displays on here for example.

How would they attain this, without zeovit and what do they do different? If this product & others are able to help in such a manner, are the non users lacking something in their systems?

Or are non Zeovit users not able to get the same colours in their sps corals, period. I assume this is because of superior water conditions for the corals from using this product.

Anyways, just wondering. As this has turned into a discussion on zeovit, I hope the thread originator does not mind and if so I can split it and move the discussion portion to its own thread.

Delphinus
12-03-2007, 08:33 PM
My take on this is: you don't need Zeovit to run a successful tank. But you can use it to help run a "really successful" tank. For example, going back to Brad's thread about "not all live rock is created equal", what can you do to promote the ideal bacterial growth to consume nitrates and phosphates? If a bacterial based system can be managed to promote a low-nutrient system, then it can level out the playing field a little. Plus, encouraging the rampant growth of these bacterias to rapidly consume things like nitrate and phosphates and then be skimmed out via the skimmer, allows you to in turn ramp up your feeding, which in turn, has its own benefits (since ordinarily you're limited by the bioload capacity of the tank - so the limits are increased :) ).

surgeonfish
12-03-2007, 08:58 PM
Doug
I agree with Tony. I think there are many ways to have an amazing tank. So far I haven't found one that works for me. I was seeing some improvement with the Reef-resh and felt the ZEOvit system was much more established and also used Zeolith.

andestang
I did get the K-balance (strong) as well. I was told that potassium is usually depleted in most systems. I started using it for 2 days, but then decided to wait as I didn't want to change too many variables at once. ZEOvit also makes a potassium test kit, but they were not in stock last week. Once they are available, I will test my K+ and dose accordingly. I am nervous about dosing K without knowing the levels in the aquarium. Does anyone else dose any of the multiple additives available?

kwirky
12-03-2007, 09:23 PM
i'd have to say i'm quite pleased with zeovit so far. I've been running it for 2 weeks and some of the algae waves i've had in new tanks just haven't happened. The tank's been running for 2 weeks now with 50% new rock. Here are some nitrate tests that are pretty damned interesting:

24g sumpless tank. aqua-c remora skimmer, DIY zeo-reactor, aquaclear HOB for carbon.
Nov 16: started zeovit
Nov 19: 5ppm Nitrate, 10% water change. Theoretical nitrate now 4.5ppm
Nov 21: 2.5ppm nitrate
Nov 30: 10% water change
Dec 3: undetectable nitrate (salifert kit)

FAST results I tell you :D. It's a low-nutrient tank in only 2 weeks. Crazy...

my only complaint is my own DIY reactor. I didn't break up the zeolyte media at all when I put it in my reactor made of 1.5" pipe. There are some large chunks that make washing the media a *****. When I change the media on the 7th I'm going to break the larger (1.5") pieces in half so they fit better in my tiny reactor.

Oh and the recommendations to run the carbon "passive" wasn't cutting it for my system. I had my carbon in a bag just sitting on the liverock and i had huge microbubble problems and never had skimmate from the skimmer. put an AC30 on the back of the tank and threw the tiny carbon bag inside and the next morning I started getting skimmate. I don't think it'll be an issue because the size of the media bag inside the filter is so small there's enough bypass to ensure the carbon's not being assaulted with flow but there's enough flow through it to ensure it's working. I knead the carbon daily as part of the dosing routine.

24storm
03-05-2008, 03:32 AM
Any update on this Shane? I am thinking about start Zeo and wanted to know how yous is coming along. I have approx the same size tank.

Keith

digital-audiophile
03-05-2008, 04:18 AM
I'd love to see the results too. I've been running zeo now for just a week but have already realized major improvements mainly in water clarity and the reducion of film algae.

Delphinus
03-05-2008, 04:37 AM
In one week? Wow, that settles it, I'm setting my reactor up tonight. :)

digital-audiophile
03-05-2008, 02:36 PM
Go for it Tony :) I tell you the results really are amazing. Before I started I would come home to a solid film of grean algae that I would have to scrub off daily, now a week and 2 days into zeo there is nothing, just a few litte spots here and there. My water has also gone from having a yellow colour to it, to being white and clear.

I actually just moved some of my new SPS pieces down in the tank becuase they were starting to burn becuase the light is penetrating deeper in the tank.

Delphinus
03-06-2008, 07:39 PM
For better or for worse, I got the reactor set up and running last night. Was a bit dicey getting my sump cleaned up and ready for a reactor (the main reason I'd been holding off .. I hadn't cleaned out my sump in a while :redface: ).

Quick question (for anyone reading this), the top 1" of media in my reactor is above the waterline when the pump is off (I'm doing the 3-on/3-off thing). Think that's a problem? Or should I just switch it to 24/7 and have it cranked back? I have it cranked back to about 1/2 flowrate already.

Jason McK
03-06-2008, 07:47 PM
Hey Tony, Yes having the rock exposed to air during the off times will render the rock ineffective. I would think that at 1/2 flow now you could run it 24/7. or cut it back alittle more just in case.

J

Delphinus
03-06-2008, 07:53 PM
Thanks J :)

digital-audiophile
03-06-2008, 07:58 PM
I had the same problem when I set my reactor up, because of the water level in my sump there was an inch or two of the rock exposed to air when the pump was off (I had it 3hours on 3 hours off) What I did was decide to trottle it back a bit and run it 24/7. The pump on my rector is rated at 200gph and zeo says max 100GPH so I moved the ball valve to the 50% position and then turned the valve to about 50% of that.. just really a trickle going through right now but the results speak for themselves.

I've been dosing .5ml zeostart in the morning and night and 4 drops of zeofood7 and zeobak in the sump beside the reactor pump at night. I clean the zeolites with 15 strokes morning and night. I am also dosing 4 drops of sponge power and amino acid direct in the display ever night and I'm dosing 2ml of coral snow in the display every second morning (it makes the water cloudy for about two hours so I decided to do it in the monring before I go to work so it is clear when I get home)

I'm no expert on zeo at all but it you have any questions on the dosing let me know :)

albert_dao
03-06-2008, 08:52 PM
I'm here too :D

digital-audiophile
03-06-2008, 09:05 PM
It's a shame you didn't get to sell me my zeo system Albert :( You should be proud though since it's your constant chatter about zeo that made me decide to do it :p

albert_dao
03-07-2008, 12:10 AM
Eh? Where'd you pick up the system Greg?

digital-audiophile
03-07-2008, 02:18 AM
I got it from Golds :p Dennis helped me out :)

vanreefer
03-08-2008, 05:34 PM
Reactor was a breeze to make took 3 trys at it but now it works just as well as the $$$ version

My biggest beef with Zeovit is the price of the reactor....because, really, it's the simplest construct in the history of DIY. But that's it--the results speak for themselves. I've also been thinking about trying Zeovit, so I'm also looking into making my own reactor.

Johnny Reefer
04-10-2008, 06:38 AM
Considering joining the Zeovit team, but then…maybe not as the attention that seems to be required may get me cut. The way it’s laid out in the “Zeovit Guide” would be impossible for me. Thus, might have to stick with “traditional” methods.

A few questions….

Has anyone found that they do not have to plunge/clean the zeolith daily and still get good results? During some months I would only be able to do this weekly.

I would have to dose the ZeoStart2 with a dosing pump. Anyone doing this? Is it even possible?...as, if I’m not mistaken, ZeoStart2 requires refrigeration?...(and the dosing pump would obviously not provide this).

The 11 additional elements. Wow! That’s a heck of a lot of dosing going on. Costly too? Has anyone found good results while underdosing all those? Again, I’d be looking at weekly doses, not daily, during some months.

I think it’s a longshot, but I thought I’d ask anyway.

Thanx much,

Jason McK
04-10-2008, 06:46 AM
Considering joining the Zeovit team, but then…maybe not as the attention that seems to be required may get me cut. The way it’s laid out in the “Zeovit Guide” would be impossible for me. Thus, might have to stick with “traditional” methods.

A few questions….

Has anyone found that they do not have to plunge/clean the zeolith daily and still get good results? During some months I would only be able to do this weekly.
Not Ideal but would not cause problems with the nitrate and phosphate eliminating ability of Zeovit

I would have to dose the ZeoStart2 with a dosing pump. Anyone doing this? Is it even possible?...as, if I’m not mistaken, ZeoStart2 requires refrigeration?...(and the dosing pump would obviously not provide this).
the only Zeo Product that requires refrigeration is Aminoacid


The 11 additional elements. Wow! That’s a heck of a lot of dosing going on. Costly too? Has anyone found good results while underdosing all those? Again, I’d be looking at weekly doses, not daily, during some months.
There are only 4 products required in the basic 4. I'm only using 3 others
Basic for
Zeolith (Rock)
Zeobac
ZeoFood7
ZeaoStart2
3 others I use and recommend
Amino Acids
Coral Vitalizer
ZeoSnow
I think it’s a longshot, but I thought I’d ask anyway.

Thanx much,[/QUOTE]


J

digital-audiophile
04-10-2008, 03:33 PM
AAC does not need to be in the fridge?

From everything I've read and understood only PCV and ZeoBac need to be in the fridge (allthough the new version of bac can be left out if the ambient temp is <20deg. C.)

Jason McK
04-10-2008, 03:46 PM
Oh shoot your right. It's coral Vitializer and Bac that is refrigerated. I refrigerate everything. As I have a bar fridge right next to my tank

J

digital-audiophile
04-10-2008, 03:52 PM
I'd also add sponge power to the list of good additional products, I really like it myself.

I've thought about using a dosing pump for the Start myself too, in the guide it suggests dosing 4 times daily with this method.

I should look for the thread but on zeovit.com some one had posted an auto flush reactor that would blast water through the zeolites on a timer.

Delphinus
04-10-2008, 05:45 PM
Dosing pumps are keeeeewwwl. :)

Honestly, I don't find Zeo to be any more work really. It just changes the routine a little bit, sure, but it's not like I wasn't already doing something everyday with the tanks. If nothing else, I at least feed the fish everyday, so adding a few drops of this or that into that is not too bad. Pumping the reactor, well, I dunno, maybe I'm weird but I sort of look forward to doing that in the morning and evening..

It's not as good a system as Zeo, but you could alternatively consider Polyp-Laps Reef-Resh system. You can dose it on a weekly basis instead of daily, and there's no reactor. I was running this (still am actually on different tanks) prior to Zeo and it did show some remarkable effects on pulling down NO3.

digital-audiophile
04-10-2008, 06:33 PM
I'm like you Tony.. I seem to get a kick out of pumping the reactor and watching the mulm flow out.

albert_dao
04-10-2008, 06:43 PM
I'm like you Tony.. I seem to get a kick out of pumping the reactor and watching the mulm flow out.

Most of us like Tony because he's a bundle of mega lovin', Greg. Just thought I'd mention it so that we may avert an awkward situation.

Delphinus
04-10-2008, 06:46 PM
LOL... Oh Albert .... I thought we were going to keep that a secret.