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View Full Version : 78 Gallon Cube - How Much Flow


Josh23
11-15-2007, 04:02 AM
Im in the process of planning a new tank, been away from reef keeping for a few years and would like some feedback prior to making any purchases.

The tank is 78 gallon (30x30x20=78 gallons)

As of right now here is my proposed equipment list:

-250 watt PFO MH, 20 K bulb, Reefluxse reflector
-Sequence Barracuda close loop pump (4500 gph)
-Ocrean motion 4 way
-Closed loop returns to be located on the bottom in each corner

Undecided Equipment
-sump return pump (500 gph)
-skimmer

Total GPH= 5000
64 times tank turnover per hour

Proposed Fish:
-firefish x2
-yellow tang
-chromis x6
-clowns x2

Maybe:
-hippo tang
-pygmy angel

What are your thoughts on these fish - will they be effected by my proposed flow? I want to see my fish not have them hide.

As for coral....

SOFTIES:
-Zoas
-GSP

LPS:
-Hammer
-Flog spawn
-Bubble Coral
-Brain
-Candy Cane
-Shelve leathers

SPS:
-undecided but only a few.

Please provide feedback on equipment and gph based on stock list.
I'm also looking for skimmer suggestions.
Should I go with a BB or sand bottom?

thanks

Joe Reefer
11-15-2007, 04:18 AM
As far as skimmers go, needle/mesh wheel skimmers seem to be the popular choices these days. Its really up to you and how much you want to spend. For a return pump....you might want to decide on a skimmer first then base your return pump on what best suits your skimmer.

Josh23
11-15-2007, 04:29 AM
I have budgeted $400 for a skimmer... hoping to pick up a really good used one or take suggestions on new ones in that price range.

Is it possible to run the skimmer and return on the same pump?

What do you think of my turnover and flow rate? to high or should I be ok?

mark
11-15-2007, 05:44 AM
Might be lot of movement for a tank that's mainly going to be soft and LPS (usually low-med flow listed) or at least hard to find areas within the tank with pockets of lower flow.

Never heard a Barracuda but wondering if noise might be a concern?

SeaHorse_Fanatic
11-15-2007, 05:52 AM
For in-sump return pumps, I'm quite pleased with my Sedra pumps. Eheims are also supposed to be very good, power-efficient & quiet.

Joe Reefer
11-15-2007, 02:23 PM
Yes you can feed your skimmer with the return pump, your pump will just have to be sized accordingly.

Josh23
11-15-2007, 06:38 PM
The Barracuda is sequence pump?

I thought most skimmers came with pumps?
What skimmers would you recommend in the 300-400 dollar range that don't come with pumps?

Joe Reefer
11-15-2007, 06:47 PM
There are alot of skimmers that are recirculating, meaning that the skimmer pump's sole purpose is to make foam. Thus requiring a supply to feed the skimmer. You are probably going to have to spend a little more scratch if you want a "good" skimmer that your going to be happy with, then again you might find a good deal on a used one. This (http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/details/skimmers.php?product_ID=ati-ps0200) would be a good choice for your tank and a good deal IMO.

mark
11-15-2007, 07:02 PM
The Barracuda is sequence pump?



Barracuda is a Reeflo but seems Reeflo is a division of MDM/Sequence.

Delphinus
11-15-2007, 08:02 PM
I'm kind of wondering if 64x turnover might be a tad on the wild side for the livestock you're thinking of. It'd probably be awesome for an SPS tank but if you're thinking of things like open brains, Euphyllia (torch/frogspawn/hammer/etc), Plerogyra (bubble), you could probably make do with a bit less. On the other hand, maybe they'll still do OK but the flipside would be that you could probably save a couple bucks if you went with some smaller pumps.

You may also want to go with BB. If it were me I might try a 1" sand bed but be ready to go BB instead if it kept shifting around. 64x turnover is a lot, I have probably more like 20-30x turnover on my cube tank and if I don't have things pointed "just right" then the sand ends up in a big pile in the corner.

I ran my old ritteri tank (72gal bowfront) running the sump return and skimmer off the same pump. It worked, but I found that that I had to valve back the sump return line in order to drive the pressure up enough in the pipe to drive the skimmer properly. This was because it was a non-recirculating style skimmer. With a recirculating skimmer, you don't need the feed line to be pressurized, just provide a little bit of flow. I can't remember the exact recommendation for optimal skimmer feed flowrate, but I think it's somewhere near 1.5 times the system volume per hour. Anyhow, basically, not very much, so the majority of the flow from the pump would still be available for the sump return or closed loop or whatever you're using it for.

SeaHorse_Fanatic
11-15-2007, 08:22 PM
Bubbles really need calm waters or they rip & die.

Josh23
11-15-2007, 11:09 PM
Thanks guys...
What size is your cube tank Tony? do you have a link to the tank setup? If your tank is running smoothly I may copy the design. Are there things you would like to change or improve?

What do you think of closed loops, drilling the bottom of the tank. Should I be concerned about the bulkheads leaking?

Ill look at smaller pump for my closed loop maybe in the 2500 gph range.

thanks for the help

Josh

Delphinus
11-15-2007, 11:47 PM
No unfortunately I never detailed the tank setup in a thread. I really should have, ooops. It's a 30x30x30. I'm running a Rio HF32 as the sump return (mistake, it's too much flow through the sump and I have a bad microbubble problem - I'm considering downgrading the pump) and the main flow is 2x6100 Tunzes on a multicontroller.

Although I will be pulling the Tunzes and installing them on my 280g when it goes online. Unfortunately they are a little too pricey to have 2 sets onhand. I haven't figured out what to replace them with but it will likely involve a Wavysea waving back and forth. Might be a closed loop or it might be a Seio attached to the Wavysea.

I imagine if the bulkheads had a bead of silicone underneath there's no reason to believe they'd ever leak. But, I have to admit, I'd still be a little nervous about it. But there are tanks out there that do that.

Josh23
11-15-2007, 11:57 PM
wow thats very similar to the tank Im setting up 30x30x20. How do you find the space for rockscape. Do you have any pictures? What kind of lighting did you go with? What fish and corals are you keeping?

Delphinus
11-16-2007, 12:19 AM
The tank works well for its intended purpose which is more of a dedicated species tank rather than an overall reef. I have a rock pillar ("bommie") in the centre which is directly under the 250W DE halide, and my H. magnifica anemone sits atop that. There is about 6" of sandbed all around the bommie.

It's not the sexiest looking tank there ever was but here's a FTS:
http://members.shaw.ca/hobiesailor/aquaria/tankshots/20070830/110g_fts.jpg

It used to have more corals in there. I have a problem with hitchhiker crabs eating my zoos, so I pulled out all the corals and moved them into my other tank. It used to look more like this:
http://members.shaw.ca/hobiesailor/aquaria/tankshots/115gside1.jpg

One day I hope to bring it back to something like that, but since it looks like I have to tear down the rockwork to get at the crabs, I've been putting it off until my other projects are closer to done. Moving the anemone is a bit dicey as it's quite large and .. well.. doesn't like to be moved much. The fish would have to be moved into a different system for at least a few days because when the anemone is annoyed, fish die. :(

Anyhow there are of course other aquascaping options. I think 30x30 offers a lot of choice. The only thing I've found is that it is a little harder getting the flow conditions right in a cube, at least with the fan shaped outputs of the Tunzes (for every piece of water pushed to one side, there is an equal volume pushed back). I kind of wish I could have more of an oscillation effect, but I guess I'd need a wavebox for that sort of thing.

Josh23
11-16-2007, 12:38 AM
What fish are you currently or have you kept in that cube tank?
ill have to google a wavebox - im not aware of the product.
What do you think of ocean motions?

Delphinus
11-16-2007, 03:01 AM
I've never had an OM but I think they are neat products.

This is a wavebox: http://www.tunze.com/149.html?&L=1&C=NL&user_tunzeprod_pi1%5Bpredid%5D=-infoxunter016
It moves water in and out of the box creating a displacement wave. Very cool effect but you need the right length of tank (I think 30" is the minimum - longer is probably better since ).

The only two fish I have in there are a Siganus virgatus (two barred rabbitfish) and a Psuedochromis fridmani (orchid dottyback).