Kalk $ calcium reactors?

[GregJ]

What is the difference between a kalk and a calcium reactor, or are they essentially the same thing?

[Doug]

A kalk reactor mixes kalk with fresh water to be pumped slowly into the sump/tank, to replace evaporated water.

A calcium reactor or co2 reactor, uses a cylinder full of aragonite media. Saltwater is fed slowly to it and circulated through the media with a small pump. The ph of the water contained inside the cylinder is lower by the injection of co2 into the chamber. The lower ph allows the dissolution of the media, which, {depending on the media} adds calcium, strontium, magnesium and alkalinity to the aquarium.

[stephane]

both will maintain calkcium and alkalinity but in a different way
on is cheap the other is expensive to buy and they are both relativaly cheap to run

I have supply my tank with kalk reactor for a long time and find it a cheap
and easy way to do it with a litle maintenance IMO they are a realy good add for beginer tank over the calcium reactor since they will climb up the PH and precipitate phosphate and this will protect you a bit from the nasty algea bloom but there way to do it and you should do it right like any method cause if you do it the rong way you will scew you tank like any other method

For the Calcium reactor I just bought one last week but still not install on the tank I will anyway use both cause I dont want to stop using kalk other could tell you more about them Im not the expert on those

you also have the 2 part product but they cost realy to much on a tank with medium demand and recomande them only for small and low demand calcium another ting I dont like from the one like bionic or ESV is that they add all kind of oligo and metal who are useless and IMO more detrimental over the long run

Here a good link you should read to know how calcium and akalinity work
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

[StirCrazy]

What is the difference between a kalk and a calcium reactor, or are they essentially the same thing?

the bid difference is a Kalk reactor only maintains Ca, and it does a good job of that if used right, but it does a pour job of maintaining alkalinity.

A Ca reactor primarily maintains alkalinity, and also does a ok job of maintaining alkalinity, you also have the added benifint of maintaining trace minerals which are in the media you are desolving in your Ca reactor.

I used Kalk and now I use a Ca reactor.. I stoped using Kalk mainly because my top off tank is 20 gal now and I have to make a Kalk reactor now.. as soon as I do I will be running both so I will get the PROs of each and they will cancle out the CONs of each other.

Steve

[stephane]

This is not right :wink: Kalk add alklinity and calcium at the exact same rate than a calcium reactor 1 meq/L alkalinity for 20 ppm calcium no more no less


Here a direct quote from advance aquarist magazine I gave the link upper

There are many ways to add calcium and alkalinity to reef tanks in ways that are balanced with output. These include limewater (kalkwasser)8 regardless of how it is dosed, calcium carbonate/carbon dioxide reactors, the two-part calcium and alkalinity additives (e.g., B-ionic, C-balance, Kent Tech CB, etc.), and a small selection of one-part additives, such as calcium acetate. I strongly recommend that you adopt on of these in your tank maintenance routine, and then never add any other calcium or alkalinity sources unless you are certain of what you need.

If you choose to add limewater, but find that using saturated limewater to replace all evaporated water does not quite keep up with calcification demand9, you can stretch the capacity of limewater by adding vinegar to the solution to enhance the solubility of the calcium hydroxide10.



Here it is again http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

and if you not shure ask randy holme on the chemestry forum he will tell you

[GregJ]

So then for a beginner, the kalk method would probably be the route to go? How offen do you have to add the solution?

[stephane]

you wil have to refil the reactor each two week aprox. each tank is different in depletion rate and each time you add a coral you depletion will change so you need to find it you self with the help of the PH alkalinity test and calcium but mostly PH only will tell you when you will be more familiar with the reactor and you tank reaction

you absolutly need a PH meter if you go with kalkwaser cause it will be the best and easy way to adjust your reactor you aslo need a dripper or
an automatic top off that will add water slowly and not a gallon each time he start

[StirCrazy]

Stephan to quot the book you like to quote sometimes.. by Anthony Calfo

"many American aquarists have the mistaken impression that the primary function of the calcium reactor is to provide calcium. In truth they are most effective at maintaining high levels of alkalinity (buffering capacity) while providing adequate levels of calcium" Pg 184 in the Book of Coral Propagation.

from that same book the argument for using both Ca reactor and kalk

"by using calcium hydroxide with a calcium reactor, an aquarist may enjoy the convenience of high alkalinity generation by the reactor while reaping the benifits of kalkwasser from increased calcium levels. Kalkwasser will serve to protect the buffering capacity of the sustem by tempering acids with liberated hydroxide molecules, efectivly enhancing the preformance of the calcium reactor. Kalkwasser also improves the preformance of protein skimmers by virtue of a dynamic knowen as saponification. It can be harnesed to assist in stabalizing or maintaining and apropriatly high pH, which will discourage the growth of undesirable algae as well."

I have read the artical you posted Stephane.. and when I say something it isn't a opinion bassed from reading one article.. I read many articles and tests and opinions and then form my opinions.. I always have and I always will..
having said that, can you post a link to whare you found that ratio? I have never seen that and I would like to read the whole thing.

there is a type o in my last post.. I said
"A Ca reactor primarily maintains alkalinity, and also does a ok job of maintaining alkalinity"

it should have said "A Ca reactor primarily maintains alkalinity, and also does a ok job of maintaining Calcium"

Steve

[Delphinus]

What I do right now, is I run a Ca reactor and I dose Kalk in my topup water. I will eventually add a kalk reactor although the progression I'm taking seems to be backwards, most people start with a kalk reactor and progress to a Ca reactor after that. The reason I'm going to a kalk reactor after my Ca reactor is that I find while the reactor is doing its job, I started dosing kalk to try to help maintain a stable pH (and see if the raised pH would help get rid of my dinoflagellate bloom that I had been battling lately); and what I found was that after about 2 weeks of the kalk in my topup, I couldn't beleive my eyes as far as the colour of coraline algae all of a sudden. Previously barren white rock are now purple and pink ... and all over. I had no idea this was going on under all the dinoflagellate goo. So ... I can't say that the kalk was 100% behind this epiphany, too many variables at play, but basically in my mind I think I've found a good thing and I want to run with it.

So yes for a beginner start maybe with the kalk, and see where that goes for you. Just my advice anyways. No reason not to go into a Ca reactor right away either (except that it is, a "not insignificant" investment. I think I'm out somewhere between $300-$400 on my reactor -- that's the reactor, the CO2 cylinder, the regulator, the bubble counter, the CO2 solenoid shutoff valve, and the recirc pump). My take on it is, you'll likely not regret either choice, but the kalk reactor is definitely less $$$.

HTH

[myinfo]

Hi:

Sorry to jump in, Can I ask what is the best/accurate calcium test kit?

[StirCrazy]

I fell Salifert is the best Ca test and I think most people will agree.

Steve

[MitchM]

Yes, Salifert.

Mitch

[stephane]

I try severale agen, sea test,seachem even 80$ lamotte and the best and easy I found is salifer

[Doug]

Salifert also.

[Troy F]

Steve, I don't understand the point you're arguing.

I have read the artical you posted Stephane.. and when I say something it isn't a opinion bassed from reading one article.. I read many articles and tests and opinions and then form my opinions.. I always have and I always will..

It's possible that Stephane may be also basing his opinion on his years of experience.

the bid difference is a Kalk reactor only maintains Ca, and it does a good job of that if used right, but it does a pour job of maintaining alkalinity.

They maintain alk just fine if used correctly. A Ca Reactor is just easier to adjust the alk if your levels get out of range.

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Kalk reactor can increase Calcium levels and alk levels, but it depends on the CO2 production of your tank.

Calcium and alk are consumed by corals and they release CO2 in the process. Kalk reactor takes that CO2 and Ca(OH)2 (Kalk), then it converts is back to calcium and alk. If you had no fish in your tank (i.e. no extra CO2 source), then it would not be possible for kalk to raise Ca and Alk levels. If you had plenty of fish or CO2 injection from the room, then it is possible but it is not guaranteed. This is one of the reasons why it is suggested that Kalk is dispersed/dripped during the night...CO2 concentration is higher at night and the chances of CO2 and CaOH bumping in to each other higher at night.

One of the common problems with Kalk is when Kalk is overdosed. There is complete overdose where the kalk precipitates the ca and alk in the water. But there is also a mild overdose where the pH is raised too high and it causes the alk to drop. When kalk is dripped, the pH of the water is increased. In this situation, you need to add buffer to counteract the situation. I think this is one of the reasons why some reefers say that kalk doesn't maintain alk. As a remedy, you can reduce the kalk you place in your mixing tank so that the pH is not as high.

Both are good, but you need to understand the pros and cons of each system. For begineers, I would start with either Kalk and Buffer or 2 Part. The expense of the Calcium reactor is very high and your money could be better spent on other equipment.

- Victor.

[GregJ]

so if I were to get a calcium reactor, would i need to add kalk?

[Delphinus]

"Need to", probably not, but "want to", maybe, that will depend on what you want. Like I said earlier, I am doing both... I feel that by doing both the pros of both outweigh the cons of either. You can go with one or the other, or both, or neither (you can VERY easily maintain nice values with two-part additives such as B-Ionic or Seachem Reef Builder for alk and Reef Calcium for alk).

[stephane]

need is a big word and you dont need any the only ting you need is to add calcium and alk now you can choose any mehtode to do it and IMO they are all good

2 part product very good and easy to dose but have to be dose each day
and cost a harm and a leg if you have even a medium bioload

kalk reactor , cheap to run but need a lilte investment , will keep you parameter well and need lilte maintenance

calcium reactor expensive to buy cheap to run need very litle maintenance
and will keep your parameter as well


Hard to choose :roll: :roll: :D

[Canadian]

How do you add alk? Is it like adding pH, or more like adding temperature? And do corals consume alk the same way they do pH and temperature?

[GregJ]

thanks guys, I think to start, I will have to decide whether to go with a calcium or kalk reactor. I don't like the idea of having to manual add stuff to the tank everyday.

[myinfo]

Hi!


What will be the ideal calcium and Ph level in a reef tank? I start using a Ca reactor 2 days ago. Anything I need to know or check.

[canadawest]

How do you add alk? Is it like adding pH, or more like adding temperature? And do corals consume alk the same way they do pH and temperature?


ROFLMAO :lol: :shock: :lol:

You were kidding, right?

[christyf5]

I add alk, pH and temperature the way everyone else does: with the little bottles my LFS sold me.

:wink:

Christy :)

[Terrance Wong]

Stir Crazy, I haven't read Calfo's book, but everything I've read says that carbonate and calcium is created from CO2 reactor effluent at about the same proportion relative to one another as the consumption of the two during calcification of corals.

That being said, in my system I still have to add a little extra buffer to keep everything balanced. I assume its due to extra acids created by my fish and macroalgae.

Here's a link of most if not all of Randy Holmes-Farley's articles on Central Reef:

http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102605

[Canadian]

No, I'm not kidding. I went to the LFS and asked for some bottles of alk, pH and temperature to add to my tank but they didn't have any, so I figure it must be a DIY thing. :D

[Aquattro]

I went to the LFS and asked for some bottles of alk, pH and temperature to add to my tank but they didn't have any, so I figure it must be a DIY thing. :D

You come to my house and I'll sell you all of those. Bring bottles and lots of money!! :P

[StirCrazy]

You come to my house and I'll sell you all of those. Bring bottles and lots of money!! :P

speaking of which... that bottle of PH you sold me was the wrong one.. my PH didn't change... i want my money back! :wink:

Steve

[Aquattro]

You come to my house and I'll sell you all of those. Bring bottles and lots of money!! :P

speaking of which... that bottle of PH you sold me was the wrong one.. my PH didn't change... i want my money back! :wink:

Steve

Did I not explain my refund policy to you?