For those who run kalkreactors and calcium reactors..

[Delphinus]

Few years ago when I had a reasonably successful SPS reef, I ran both a kalk and a calcium reactor on my tank and thought I had pretty decent results.

Thought I'd go back to trying both now, but am noticing a couple things.

For the most part it looks like I'm unbalancing my Alk from my Ca. With the slowest of steady drip rates (about 1 drop per second) on the kalk reactor, I'm getting Alk around 4.0 meq/l (about 11.2 dKH) and Ca is about 370.

I'd kind of like to see my Alk back off a bit or my Ca bumped up a bit, but increasing either reactor spikes my Alk to well above 4.0meq/l, which is way too high.

For those running both, what kind of levels of Ca and Alk are you getting?

[Der_Iron_Chef]

Whoo, late night eh Tony?!

I don't have any personal experience running both reactors, but couldn't you just bump the Ca levels up with an additive and then attempt to maintain it with the reactor(s)?

[Doug]

I would think adding more kalk would increase the calcium and not increase the alkalinity, which is being kept up by the co2 reactor.

[marie]

I don't have a kalk reactor but i do drip kalk at night. My calcium sits around 390-400 and my alk is at 9.5-10 DKH

[untamed]

I would think adding more kalk would increase the calcium and not increase the alkalinity, which is being kept up by the co2 reactor.

I'm of the same opinion. While my current tank runs both, I haven't had it running long enough to spot a trend. My LONG term experience is running Kalk only..which always tended toward low Alk.

So..IMO, the running of your Kalk reactor should only improve your current situation.

[Joe Reefer]

I run both, my kalk reactor is run on my ATO though. Alk 3.0 meq/l and Ca 400 ppm.

[Delphinus]

Hi Drew, yeah I was working on my tank build last night. I only get to work on it after the wee one goes to bed. There's only 1 of him but it feels like I'm chasing after 6 or 7 toddlers. :lol: So there's no progress on anything while he's up.

Well, that's weird then. I thought the kalk was to help with the Alk and not the Ca. Guess I had that backwards but I've really been struggling from keeping the Alk from going through the roof ever since putting both online.

I should mention that I do add Calcium additive to bump the Ca levels but it creeps downward over the course of a week. Which means despite the abundance of Alk output, the reactors are not keeping up the Ca levels.

I should mention that I'm running the reactor at pH 6.7 and an effluent flowrate of 60ml/min. Unless my pH meter is in dire need of a calibration but given that it tells me a pH range of my tank from 8.1 (night) to 8.3 (day), I've not had cause to think it was out of range since the numbers are more or less what you'd expect to them to be.

I wonder if the thing to do here is take them both offline for a week or so and let the levels drop, and just keep bumping the Calcium via additives until the Alk has gotten to maybe 3.0, and then restart. It's just that... well .. I've already kind of tried this once already when my alk approached 5.0 meq/l :eek: ...

[mark]

Just running a Ca reactor only but finding similiar.

I can keep the Ca around 400ppm with the reactor alone but find my alk is always on the high end (11dKH) and if my effulant rate drifts up (bubble count same) then the alk wants to spike.

Been testing my mix water lately and find IO is at 11 right out of the bucket, have been considering bringing the alk down before adding to tank to give me some more head room with the tank. That and a finer valve for the reactor effulant.

[Aquattro]

Well, kalk will add both Ca and Alk, as will a Ca reactor. Tony, on my 150g, once I set the parameters where I wanted them using Kent A&B, my Ca reactor was able to maintain those levels all the time. I never needed both, and that was with a lot of SPS growth. If your Ca reactor is sized to your tank/bio-load, maybe just try running that AFTER you set the right levels.

[fishmaster]

Just to expand on the topic....Anyone using a kalk reactor mainly to help bring up the ph drop from their calcium reactor? I was under the impression that this is the main reason to run both.

[untamed]

Just to expand on the topic....Anyone using a kalk reactor mainly to help bring up the ph drop from their calcium reactor? I was under the impression that this is the main reason to run both.

pH mainly drops at night. I've been trying to use my Kalk reactor to offset this drop. My Kalk reactor runs only at night, but so far it has not made any noticeable change in the pH drop. I continue to increase the nightly amount.

[Doug]

Using kalk only will maintain add calcium and help with alk. levels but I have always found the alkalinity to drop in kalk only tanks. I and others doing the same, add a buffer once a week or so, to maintain alk.

My co2 reactor, maintained both my calcium and alk. as Brad mentioned his did. I found my alk was always on the higher side, pushing around 11.2dkh.

I think most running a co2 reactor, use a kalk reactor or drip, to help boost calcium in a heavy demand tank and also as mentioned, to help with ph levels. However I know of several co2 reactor users who dont follow this idea, as there reactors are sized large enough to provide calcium & alk, plus they also seem to maintain high enough ph levels with no kalk.

I like kalk myself, as its cheap and easy to use. I have never used a reactor though, just dripping now or mixing it in my top off tub when running my larger tanks.

I would say keep the co2 reactor running the same or back it down a bit and keep using a good kalk mix to bring calcium levels up, with perhaps a bit of Reef Advantage or whatever you use, to increase the calcium levle some.

Whats the alk. reading on the reactors output? If mine got a bit ot high, I think I decreased the co2 amount a little, which usually lower it. Cant remember for sure but think mine was running in the low to mid 20,s dkh area.

[Delphinus]

Well, kalk will add both Ca and Alk, as will a Ca reactor. Tony, on my 150g, once I set the parameters where I wanted them using Kent A&B, my Ca reactor was able to maintain those levels all the time. I never needed both, and that was with a lot of SPS growth. If your Ca reactor is sized to your tank/bio-load, maybe just try running that AFTER you set the right levels.
Hi Brad, thanks, that is basically what I'm trying as I try to dial in the two reactors together. (Ie. using the two-parts until I get Ca=390 and Alk=3.0, then let the reactors try to maintain after that point.) It's just that over time, Ca will will fall, and Alk will rise. Which wasn't quite was I was expecting, I was expecting both values to rise (or drop) together. If I run the kalk by itself both values will drop. If I run the Ca by itself I should theoretically be able to retune to the system's draw rates but I was hoping to add kalk to the mix because it helps to precipitate out phosphate (or so I thought).

I dunno maybe I'll just give up on the kalk for now. It's not like I have any SPS left, so the draw should be fairly low anyhow, but I was hoping to maintain the levels for the benefit of the other things I have left (clams and LPS).

[Delphinus]

Thanks Doug. I'll test the reactor's Alk output, I have no idea what it's at, I've only measured pH of the effluent.

One thing catches my eye in what you just said - "good kalk mix." I'm wondering if part of my problem is I'm using Mrs Wages pickling lime (Someone gave me theirs when they left the hobby). I don't really like the stuff very much. It turns poo brown after a week although the pH is still 11ish so I think it's still working but nevertheless I'm wondering I should switch to a proper kalk mix.. I only use a few tablespoons per week or two so it takes me forever to use it up..

[untamed]

Of course, it could be something related to the Ca/Alk that your specific tank uses. It think it is fairly accurate to say that both Kalk and Ca reactors deliver both Ca/Alk in a mostly balanced way.

Holmes-Farley also says that often having one of these parameters a bit low is an indication of not enough of the balanced Kalk or Reactor...as opposed to concluding that you need to chase Ca or Alk separately.

[Delphinus]

That's just the thing, you can't chase Ca and Alk independently when you have a reactor. I am starting to appreciate the Balling method instead :lol: Or just adding the stuff manually, it's just that I can't stand wondering at 10pm at night "Did I remember to add my Ca additive before I left for work this morning? How come I can't remember?" ... That's the beauty of the reactors - once dialed in they are set-and-forget but ... OTOH dialing them in can be such a pain. I can dial in a single reactor perfectly but now adding a kalk reactor to the mix, it just seems I can't wrap my head around what's going on in there. :redface:

[Doug]

I never used the pickling lime much Tony, so cant comment on it. Seems like a lot of aquarists in the US are though. I use Ben,s kalk. Good grade and a decent price. I believe Quinn also sells it at Prairie Reef Supplies. Before that I always used ESV.

If you wish to discontinue the kalk and are happy with ph levels and the co2 reactor, then just use a calcium additive to bring the level up. It should not effect the alk. The co2 reactor then can be set to keep both at par.

I also use the kalk to precipitate the phosphate but have no idea if its doing that. :lol:

[michika]

I run both, kalk and ca reactors, although my kalk pulls water from my top-off bucket, before heading into the tank.

My system seems to have settled on 9-10dKH, and 420-460 Ca.

[Delphinus]

I have some of Ben's kalk too (another hand-me-down from someone departing the hobby). I figure I would use up the pickling lime first just because I want to get rid of what I've got first before moving onto new stuff. But at only a few tablespoons into the kalk reactor every 2 weeks it's just taking forever to use it all up. I have a similar problem with PE Mysis, through participation in group orders and some hand-me-downs I found myself sitting on about 30 packages, I've used up a lot, but still have about 20. At my current rate of consumption (I feed mysis to 3 tanks every day so it's not like I'm overly stingy - but it's about a .75" square of mysis split into 3 tanks so it's not like I'm dumping the stuff either), it takes me about 2-3 months per package to use it up. 2-3 months times 20 packages = 40 to 60 month supply :eek: I'm thinking I'm going to have to start trading some of this stuff away, it just won't hold that long.. :lol:

[Delphinus]

Catherine those are rather ideal looking numbers. Man I wish I knew what I could adjust to make mine similar... :neutral: I wonder if it's a case of too much calcium reactor / not enough kalk? I have the drip rate set on the kalk reactor so that it doesn't exceed evaporation. If I set the pump to 10% or higher of its rated capacity it will overtake evaporation (luckily it's a very slow trend and easy to spot after a day or so, so it's not like I'm in danger of overflowing the sump unless I get VERY inobservant..).

At my old place when I ran both I had the kalk run directly into my float valve. I switched to a metering pump so that I wouldn't have to worry about the valve clogging anymore.

Ok here's my next question, for those with kalk reactors, how often and for how long are you running your mixing pump?

[steve fedyk]

I run Ca reactor without a kalk reactor. My Ph is 8.3 to 8.1 in the tank, in reactor 6.8 to 6.6. My Ca was at 450ppm, alk was 3.43, mg was 1200. I added 200gm of Mg and the alk went up to 3.89 with the ph going up 0.12 in one hour. Mg is now 1300ppm.
I was told once that Mg was the middle of the tetertater, between Ca and alk. If one wont go up but the other will, check your Mg level. I don't know if this is true or not, but it worked for me.:mrgreen:

[Delphinus]

I'll have to test Mg. It's surely too low, it's been a few weeks since I last tested. I want to find a solid based Mg supplement I can run in my reactor because the liquid Kent stuff I tried last month didn't last me very long, I don't think that will be a long-term economical solution.

My Salifert Alk test kit finally finished on me, so I went and bought an Elos. The Elos measures in dKH instead of meq/l. It tells me my Alk is 12dKH so 12/2.8 = 4.29ish meq/l.

Yeah, time to get on that Mg and see if that's part of the issue here I guess.

[midgetwaiter]

I'll have to test Mg. It's surely too low, it's been a few weeks since I last tested. I want to find a solid based Mg supplement I can run in my reactor because the liquid Kent stuff I tried last month didn't last me very long, I don't think that will be a long-term economical solution.


You can put some dolomite in the Ca reactor to help with this, might be tough to find a pure enough source though.

[kari]

Tony, a while back there was some at Gold. Since its snowing it might be a good day to hit Deerfoot :lol: .

[mark]

I'll have to test Mg. It's surely too low, it's been a few weeks since I last tested. I want to find a solid based Mg supplement I can run in my reactor because the liquid Kent stuff I tried last month didn't last me very long, I don't think that will be a long-term economical solution.

Yeah, time to get on that Mg and see if that's part of the issue here I guess.

For using the reactor for Magnesium see Zeomag (http://216.187.96.54/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=36186&highlight=zeomag) being used also, not sure if easier to source than dolomite.

Not sure if I can/could recommend the Magflake from littleilvermax as only been using a little over a month, but found after getting the Mg in system up, it's staying fairly constant (1200-1300ppm, ELOS so don't have the resolution) . I haven't had to add to the display since the start and just been making sure the water for changes is at 1300ppm and it's seems in-expensive.

Back to the alk and MG. Found before I was testing and supplementing for Mg (assume ~900 ppm based on IO salt) my alk was 10dKH, (Ca 350-380). Now since adding Ca/Mg (testing at Ca 400-425 and Mg 1200-1300) in addition to reactor, finding if anything alk now steadily up also to 11dKH.

[andresont]

reading all this makes me want to get Salifert all in one Calcium (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~additives_salifert.html)
I think its Ok for tanks up to 70 Gal to keep up with the Calcium demand...

[steve fedyk]

I use Rowalith C+ for media which is the same as the LFS use's. I used Epnson salts to bring my Mg up to where it should be. I would like to get a kalkwasser mixer to run at night to bring my ph up to a nice stead level.

I thinking of usiing a ph controled to maintane my ph level, but not sure that with work as planned. Ca reactor runs to bring down the ph and Kalk reactor come on when the ph drops. Hopefully that with work. I would set the ph at 8.4 to 8.2 and hope to maintane the Ca and alk level at the same time. I think that would work better if it could moniter the Ca and ALk level to where they should be. Pipe dream or I haven't built the computer to do this.:smile:

[StirCrazy]

I'm getting Alk around 4.0 meq/l (about 11.2 dKH) and Ca is about 370.



Um, sounds almost perfect to me, thoes are pretty much the numbers I shot for in my tank. I maintained 380 Ca and about 12 alk and found that was the best numbers for growth and color in my tank.

Steve

[Delphinus]

I used to think those numbers were perfect too, but it seems to me the current thinking is that an ideal alk is closer to about 3meq/l. Also, apparently with the current thinking on ULNS tanks (Zeovit, Ultralith, Plyplaps, etc.) that your target Alk actually "needs to be" in the 3.0 to 3.4 (max) range (I'm not 100% certain on this but I think I've heard that).

My main concern though was that I was finding that I was going well above 4.0meq/l, at one point I had an alk close to 4.8 meq/l. Things were looking pretty unhappy at that point.

However, since then I have backed off the reactor and the Alk seems to be settling in around 3.4. I'm happier with this although my metering pump that is feeding the reactor is dialed down to basically nil. I suppose that's OK but I'm always happier if I can have an adjustment knob set somewhere in the middle of its range rather than at one of the extremes (ie. if you listen to stereo and the volume is always set to 10 {out of 10} then something's not right. Similarly if you find it's "way too loud" and the volume is set to "less than 1" {out of 10} then again it's sort of indicating something's not optimal with the system, at least according to your tastes if nothing else). I dunno maybe I'm not making any sense here.

Anyhow so I was sort of thinking that my next step might be to dial it up to about 5%-10% but only running it at night. The nice thing is that to do that all I need to do is throw a timer on the feed pump.

I'm thinking that the situation is probably indicative of not having as high of a draw on calcium than I was expecting. I guess this is true, I peg my clams as probably the hungriest consumers of Ca and Alk. I don't have any SPS anymore, they just don't live for me (in the last year the longest I've had an SPS frag live for me is about 2 weeks. Actually, I guess that's not true, I did buy an abrotinoides that was hanging on after 4 weeks but it was trying to recede on me so I've asked a friend to house it for me until such time as I can just tear down this tank and move all my livestock into the new system).

[PzReefer]

Hmm, I was using both a calcium reactor with ZeoMag and dripping kalk at night and got somewhat different results, with calcium way up and alk much lower.

I use TM pro salt and find alk levels much lower after mix in the 7-8 range with decent Mg and Cal levels (1250-1300 Mg and 380-400 Ca),by running Ca reactor at pH 6.6 and drip rate of 60ml/min, and dripping kalk at night was getting results of Ca at 480 and Mg at about 1350-1400 with dKH at 9.8-10.2

The load on system is heavy to overloaded i cant figure out the high Ca numbers and i haven't added any Ca liquid in many months, I recently shut down kalk drip fearing to high Ca may cause problems anyone have any ideas on too high Ca levels?