Ballasts

[GregJ]

I was taking to a guy about my lighting system today and he suggested that I get my bulb first so that he could make sure that it would work in the ballast. He said that some companies put sodium ballasts on metal halides, so that they won't work or something like that(Iwas a little confused) anyways could someone clairifly for me. Is there lots of bulbs out there that would run on a MH ballast?

Thanks Greg

[Troy F]

Yes but some of the bulbs have a ballast that they'd run better or optimally on. An example would be the Iwasaki bulb is designed to run on a mercury vapour ballast but will run just fine on your standard MH ballast. If you have an idea of bulb and wattage some of our members will be able to give you some help choosing the right ballast.

[GregJ]

Thanks Troy, So the bulbs will still work in a regular MH ballast? Will using a regular MH shorten the life of the bulb? The reason I ask is because there is a guy up in surrey, who says that he can do the whole setup for under 100.00. But he wants me to get a bulb first ,so that he can make sure the ballast will work? I just didn't want to be limited to that bulb, seeing a how I haven't even setup up my tank yet.

Greg

[Delphinus]

In case it helps, here's a sort of general guideline that I used when I was setting up halides. It's just a general guidline you don't have to follow it rigidly if you have a particular plan or look you want to go for, but since we're talking about an empty canvas here, let's just get you started. For every 2' of tank you want one halide bulb. So a typical 4' tank, two bulbs. A 6' tank (e.g., 155 or 180), go with 3 bulbs. Use your depth of tank to determine your wattage. So if you're tank is less than 20" then 175W bulbs will work just fine. For 20"-24" go with 250W, and anything over 24" go with 400's. Of course, change this at will. If you're going with SPS you know you will want more light, so step up the wattage. If you're going with a fish only or something then feel free to step down the wattage.

Ok, now as to your plan. For the most part, just run a halide bulb on the ballast appropriate to its size. So, a 175W bulb runs on a 175W ballast, which has ANSI designation "M57." So if a ballast is labelled M57, it runs a 175W bulb. M58 is 250W. Not to overly confuse matters but there is also a 150W halide size some people run, and these have their own ballasts too. Going into double-ended bulbs is a whole different story, and each of those has their own ballast, too.

But ... the bottom line is, if we're looking at something for less than $100 then odds are it is just a standard "core and coil" type ballast. All you will need know is the wattage. If it's 175W, then it will run any 175W bulb. The only real exception to this rule is when you get into electronic ballasts, then sometimes they are indeed tuned to a specific brand of bulb. But don't worry, for under $100 Canadian, we're not talking about electronic ballasts. They tend to be a lot more money.

I guess the only other exception is the Iwsaki bulbs, like Troy mentioned. These are mercury vapour bulbs that can be run on metal halide ballasts. So if you have a MH ballast, don't worry, you can still use an Iwasaki bulb if that's the bulb you elect to use. The only thing to watch out for, is, Iwasaki's don't come in 175W. 150W, 250W, and 400W. So if this is the bulb you want to use, you might want to not use the 175W size. The flip side to this, though, is that not all people enjoy Iwasaki's. To be honest, I run both 175W 10000K bulbs, and 250W Iwasaki bulbs which are 6500K, and there is little difference to the eye. The 10000K's are slightly crisper white, but despite the lesser wattage I don't see an obvious difference in intensity. I'm rather happy with those bulbs. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, it's not the end of the world if you end up using a 175W ballast.

I hope I haven't just confused you more. Getting back to your case, my bet is your guy wants to know the wattage to be sure he's giving you the right sized ballast. That's all. With the exception of Iwasaki's which are MV, what you have is a metal halide bulb and what you want is a metal halide ballast. (Ok, so technically speaking some people are running Radiums on sodium ballasts, but that's a whole other story, so if you're thinking about going with a Radium, disregard everything I've just said.) Generally speaking pick your wattage based on what you've got and what you want to do, and after that there's little else except to buy the bulbs and turn them on and enjoy. 8)

[DJ88]

Here is a list of ballasts (names and designtations) and the common bulbs(easily obtainable here in canada) that are supposed to be used in conjunction with that ballast. These are recommended ballasts by the manufacturer. Some may run on other ballasts of the same wattage but not as efficiently. There are more bulbs out there but may not be as readily available here in Canada. ie sunbursts etc etc.

150W M81 (150W HQI)

150 Ushio 10,000K
150 AB 10,000K

150W M102

150 Iwasaki 6500K
150 Iwasaki Aqua 50,000K

175W M57

175 Venture 5200K

175W M137

175 Ushio 10,000K
175 AB 10,000K

250W M58

250 Venture 5200K
250 Ushio 10,000K
250 AB 10,000K

250W Mercury Vapour H37

250 Iwasaki 6500K

250W M80 (250W HQI)

250 Ushio 10,000K
250 AB 10,000K

400W M59

400 Venture 5200K

400W M135

400 AB 10,000K
400 BLV/Ushio 10,000K

400W Mercury Vapour H33

400 Iwasaki 6500K

400W Son Agro

400W Radium 20000K

Hopefully that helps. It will let you decide what you are interested in running as far as ballasts and bulbs all in one shot.

As far as what you will like... That you will have to decided with your own eyes.

As far as intensity goes. Do reasearch on Reef Central, reefs.org, Fishnet and to a degree on here for information regarding intensity and color spectrums.

Clear as mud?

[Delphinus]

[...]
These are recommended ballasts by the manufacturer.
[...]

400W Son Agro

400W Radium 20000K
[...]



What is the source of this information? I have heard from two completely different sources that Radium does not honour their warrantee on their bulbs if the bulbs are run on the Son Agro ballast. So which is it?

[DJ88]

I stand corrected. To run these bulbs as people seem to find the best color out of them. the Son Agro is used.

[Delphinus]

Exactly what is the difference between a pulse-start, and a, a, um, a not pulse-start ballast anyways?

I've been using M57's on my 10000K (Hamilton, which I think are just Ushios resold) for years and to be honest I've never thought "gee this just looks inefficient." What is gained by switching to a pulse start ballast?

What is an "F-can" ballast? Is that an electronic ballast by any chance? Are F-can's any better than traditional cap-n-coil ballasts?

While I'm at it, what is the average wing velocity of a sparrow?

:? :?:

[StirCrazy]

Exactly what is the difference between a pulse-start, and a, a, um, a not pulse-start ballast anyways?

I've been using M57's on my 10000K (Hamilton, which I think are just Ushios resold) for years and to be honest I've never thought "gee this just looks inefficient." What is gained by switching to a pulse start ballast?

What is an "F-can" ballast? Is that an electronic ballast by any chance? Are F-can's any better than traditional cap-n-coil ballasts?

While I'm at it, what is the average wing velocity of a sparrow?

:? :?:

the differences between puls start and normals are a few things.. a puls start is designed to be used with a started, also the current and voltagaes can vary between different ballast designs.. so in the end you get the same watage but how it is applied is different. Pluse starts are easyer on the bulb as they use a lower amprage on the bulb when starting and people are finding they are getting longer life out of there bulbs by using them. also another thing you want to look at is CCC (curent crest factor) a normal old M57 ballast has one of about 1.8, some of the better ballast can be as low as 1.4, this is a big increas in bulb life by getting a ballast with a lower CCF. take the HQI ballasts I am getting.. they have a CCF of 1.5, whare a standered cwa 250 watt MH ballast is 1.7 or 1.8.
this alone will be easyer on the bulb and result in longer bulb life.
Now get rid of a Open current start by using a pulse start and you should be even better off.

As for F-cans, they are just a "pre cassed" ballast.. they look like a standard floressent ballast.. the problem with them is if you are getting a pulse start type, the ignitor and capacitor is also encased.. so unlike a normal ballast whare you can replace a 5 to 10.00 starter or capacitor.. with a f-can you have to replace the whole ballast.. (My 175 watt is a f-can ballast)

Steve

[GregJ]

Thanks guys ,that did help to clear things up. I was worried that certain brands put safety guards on the bulbs,so that they would only work with their ballast, thats what this guy was telling me anyways. I did want to pay for a set up and find out that aquarium bulbs didn't work in it, and this guy wasn't the type that would take something back after he sold it, if you know what i mean. He runs his operation out of a shack that is out in the boon docks. Anyways i have another question for you. What is the difference between a M57 and a M137 and how do I go about specifing that to a light guy? Is that common light terminalogy or is that aquarium talk?

thanks again, Greg

[Delphinus]

the differences between puls start and normals are a few things.. a puls start is designed to be used with a started, also the current and voltagaes can vary between different ballast designs..


Ok, I can understand that watts (roughly) amps * voltage * some other factor, so I can appreciate that the same wattage is obtainable via different values on the RHS of the equation.

But what I'm still unclear about is this starter business. "Designed to be used with a starter." Do they not all come with a capacitor anyways? Or is that different? What is the starter? Does it come together with the ballast or is there a different part # for it and it has to be ordered separately?

[StirCrazy]

well, take my ansi M80 ballast for instanc.. I have to chose between 3 different part #'s 1 was a bare ballast, one was a ballast pluss capacitor, and the other was all three.. basicly what a starter does is takes a couple amps (say 2 amps on the venture son agro) but uses 2 amps at a very high voltage which starts the bulb faster and aparently with less stress. a normal M57 ballast uses open line voltage and full amperage to start the bulbs so they tanke longer to strike.

as for a more technical explanation you would have to ask Darren or Victor, which I am sure one of them will post shortly anyways :wink:

Steve

[Delphinus]

So is a starter a starter or are they different depending on the lamp wattage, or is a starter for a M57 different from a starter for a M137?