My New 72"x20"x20" Tank Build

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Finally after a bunch of set backs, I have finally started my new build! I have never really done a heck of a lot of DIY stuff, so go easy on me...especially the woodworking!

Anyways, heres the story. My fiance and I have moved 3 times in the past year. It has been a disaster for my poor fish. I have 2 large puffers and eel who need a big, big tank. We moved into a really, really nice basement apartment so that I could set up a 220G tank for them. Long story short, the owners sold the house and we had to leave because although the new people were renting out the suite, they did not want such a big tank in their place. Fair enough I guess. We moved back into our old building (luckily I am friends with the owner) and actually got a nicer suite. BUT we could not set up the 220G because its on the second floor. My brother is now using the 220G. I needed a tank that would be suitable for my puffers but not much more than 100G, so the footprint of the tank was important. I came up with 72"x20"x20" being about the best I could do. I was about to build it in acrylic with my father but then found almost the exact same tank from a member here! It turned out great. It will by no means be ideal for my big puffers but I am not willing to give them up and Im confident it will give them enough room.

This is what I want this tank to be...Heavily planted with macro algae and mushrooms, very natural looking and I really do not mind a bit of what people usually consider nuisance algae. Stuff like bubble algae. I really want a lot of growth in this tank! Any suggestions for macro algae or "stuff" in general to add would be great! No corals though besides mushrooms or anything my puffers will leave alone and need little care. I may add xenia but I hate how quickly that stuff takes over a tank!

All the flow for the tank will be from a large return pump and closed loop. I do not want any equipment visible. Had a bit of a drilling problem, so now I think the sump and refugium will be rubbermaids!:wink:

Heres a list of what I have so far followed by many pics!

72"x20"x19" Eurobraced Tank
30G Sump
30G refugium
PM Bullet 2 Skimmer
4 x 80 watt retro fit T5 with individual reflectors (320 watts total)
Sequence 1100 series 6000 GPH Pond Pump for closed loop
Mag 24 Return pump
$600 or so in plumbing:neutral:
DIY stand
DIY canopy
Aqua Controller JR.

2 large puffers sick of QT (QT'd separately)
1 large eel also sick of his QT (at least he has sand though!)
200 lbs. LR sick of rubbermaids
Many headaches already!

Here are some camera phone pics...The kinda woodwork sucks, I know:sad: but I am limited to mostly all hand tools right now. The stand and canopy will be primed white and if we like it, will be painted white. If not, black it is!

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00497.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00499.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00500.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00501.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00503.jpg

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00504.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00505.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00506.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00508.jpg

[mark]

Like the picture with the tankful of fittings.

Measure twice, cut once, dry fit everything and have fun.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Thanks mark. Well you guys here have really helped me get this thing planned out. I should have everything I need now and I know I have extra PVC. I will be dry fitting it all this week and will post pics to get advice.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Do you have a PVC pipecutter? Those things are worth their weight in gold when it comes to these plumbing projects. Way easier & cleaner than with a hacksaw.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Yeah I just picked one up today! I had cut about 3 lengths of the 2" PVC with a hacksaw and mitre box and decided enough was enough...Way too slow and hard to keep the cut really nice. Tried a quick cut tonight with the new cutter and its not as fast as I had thought it would be but perfect cut.

[untamed]

I see Krylon PVC spraypaint.....a product I know very well!

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I see Krylon PVC spraypaint.....a product I know very well!

Yeah! Krylon! Not sure if Im using it much anymore but it was for the back of the tank. Thing is, I want to one day be able to use this tank as a room divider because it is drilled perfectly for one. If I paint the back black, that may not work so well!

[untamed]

Leave the option open. The back wall will get covered in coraline if you don't clean it anyway.

[fkshiu]

If you have access to a mitre saw, I have found that to be the easiest way to cut lengths of PVC using a standard rip/cross-cut blade.

As far as the background is concerned, I use black plastic posterboard slipped between the upper and lower frames of the tank. No mess and much easier to remove than paint.

[banditpowdercoat]

Holly crap, look at the size of that Pump and Skimmer

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Holly crap, look at the size of that Pump and Skimmer

Yeah the skimmer is a decent size but its that pump that Im still amazed by! Its huge! 300 watts too, so a LOT of power consumption. Hope it end up being worth it. I refuse to use powerheads this time around.

[banditpowdercoat]

Hope the pump is fairly quiet:cry:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Yeah I hooked up the pump when I got it for a test and its way quieter than I thought. Once its in the stand it should barely be heard...

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I want to build some rock columns using rods and drilling the LR. What do you guys recommend I use for the rods and where did you get them? I want something not too thick. Im not really interested in using PVC either.

I will post some updated pics of this project soon. I have finished off the stand and canopy besides the doors which will be attached with magnets to keep things really easy. Its all primed and ready for paint which will be done tonight! The stand and canopy will be white, which I do not see too often with aquariums. Really works well in our living room.

I have also finished wiring and mounting the lights and man they are BRIGHT! Im super impressed so far with the T5's. Much nicer coverage than halides and way less watts. VERY nice coloring with the Giesemann daylight and actinic bulbs.

[Phanman]

Im going to do the same thing with rock columns but i think (not sure yet) im going to go the pvc route. For the base i plan on using an H shape, and a straight pvc piece attached to the middle. This way i can have a stable base and just put rocks over top of the base to cover it. I was also thinking of using plastic rods.

[Delphinus]

Acrylic rod maybe?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Im going to do the same thing with rock columns but i think (not sure yet) im going to go the pvc route. For the base i plan on using an H shape, and a straight pvc piece attached to the middle. This way i can have a stable base and just put rocks over top of the base to cover it. I was also thinking of using plastic rods.

What kind of plastic rods are safe in the aquarium? I have had a hard time finding anything that would be safe.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Some pics...

My camera phone really cannot pick up the brightness of the lights but here goes:


Actinics:

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00517.jpg

Actinics/Daylight:

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00518.jpg

Stand/Canopy without doors (needs to be painted white, this is just primed):

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00515.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00521.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00520.jpg

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Another update with regards to the plumbing...I tried drilling the sump and it cracked very easily. I spoke to a glass place first and they had told me to be very careful drilling 1/4" glass because its so thin. I know many people do it with no problems but mine cracked. Not really sure why but anyways, I am back to my original idea of using rubbermaid containers. I already have a few but want a bigger one I think. Problem is, I keep finding ones that are perfect but made of PP. Im not even sure what PP is but I thought it pretty much has to be HDPE to be safe. Anyone?

After doing a bit of research, looks like PP is used for food packing, so maybe safe for a sump???

[Phanman]

Sorry acrylic like tony said. Not really sure where to get it at this point, but if you find out let me know. :biggrin:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I ended up just getting the fiberglass parking poles from Canadian Tire for real cheap. I will post a pic of how it goes in a few days.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Just did a quick "test" with some dried out LR I have laying around. I am going to paint the rods with Krylon Fusion paint so they are not yellow but I thought I would take a picture with the yellow so you can really see the rod.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00523.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00522.jpg

[adidas]

cool..cant wait to see the finished product

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I went to HD today and got some nice Zip ties to support the plumbing and keep it from hanging off the bulkheads and stressing them. Thats all I went for but why do I always end up leaving with a $100 plus receipt???

Anyways, does anyone think I should put a protective acrylic shield just under the T5's? I have some 1/4" acrylic laying around and was thinking about it. It would be a bit of a pain to install but probably could be done. Would the acrylic warp or melt though? I know its a bad idea with MH's but Im not sure about T5's. I was just thinking that even to keep the moisture off the reflectors, bulbs and wiring would be nice. What do you think?

I also picked up some of the foam used under carpeting for under the pumps. Its the stuff kind of like yoga mats I guess but thicker. I figure I will triple it up and see if that gets rid of all the vibration.

I will post a pic of the dry fit plumbing when Im closer to being done and get everyones advice.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Oh and I measured the tank today to see how big I will end up making the pillars and realized the tank is taller than I was told. Its not 19" but 20". So with those dimensions, I guess the tank is a 125G, not 110. Either way, its pretty shallow and I think it will looks cool with a few tall pillars that reach the surface. Im only using 2 tall ones and a short one in the display and then the rest of the rock will be in the fuge and sump. I want a very open tank for the puffers to swim freely.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Now for a few work in progress plumbing pics. I have the overflow return to refugium and sump pretty much dry fitted and ready to cement as long as I (or anyone else for that matter) do not see issues with it. Basically the "herbie" overflow is controlled by the 2" gate valve right under the bulkhead there and then the return tees to the refugium (right) and sump (left). The refugium is reduced down to 1.5" flex PVC and flow is controlled with a 1.5" ball valve. Right now I only have the 1 2" union but I may add another. The sump drain will not be left like that, it will have PVC running down into the sump, Im just holding off on that at the moment. As you can see in the first pic, the overflow is not built yet. I want to get the plumbing worked out and then I will go buy the glass for it. I still need to build the emergency drain but will not do so until I build the overflow so I know the height that is needed. The emergency drain will just go into the sump but water will fall a bit, splashing to let me know that for whatever reason, the emergency drain has been needed.

Anyways, let me know if you catch anything I miss...

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00527.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00528.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00529.jpg

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I also kind of started to think about how the closed loop would be plumbed. Still not sure yet but I am trying my best to avoid over the back! I think I will go through the extra bottom bulkhead I have and then up to the eurobracing. I took a picture of how I think I will have the return get up to the top. It will be painted black and also have a rock column in front of it, so it will not look too noticeable I don't think.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00530.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00531.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00532.jpg


I guess the one thing that may happen is that the flow on the left side will be much weaker because the return would be on the right side. BUT the mag 24 return from the sump will be on the left, so I think that will even it all out. What do you think?

Im also wondering if I do it this way how to have the outlets. Im thinking about 6-8 but Im not sure. Its a big 6000 GPH pump, so I think it could easily handle 8. The head loss is just under 5' and no 90's until it hits the top "t". The outlet of the pump will be directly below the bulkhead.

What would you do with the 2" outlets? Leave them just as 2" 45's or 90's? I do not want to restrict a lot of flow coming out of them. Im kind of lost right now on this...

[untamed]

I would upgrade that gate valve you have on the Herbie drain. I think what you have there is called a knife valve, and I don't think you'll get the fine adjustment that you want from it.

I could be wrong, but most gate valves have round, screw-type handles like this. I know that on my system, an adjustment of almost immeasurable rotation causes an effect.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r118/untamed_photos/Aquarium%20Construction/100_0484copy.jpg

[untamed]

I realize that you haven't built the overflow box yet, but your plumbing mock up shows the primary (Herbie) overflow intake as being quite high in the tank. You don't want that. That line should just be a bulkhead right on the bottom of the tank.

Your emergency flow drain should have a vertical riser like that. The surface will be skimmed by the overflow box, and the water level in the overflow box will be between the bottom of the tank and the level of the emergency overflow.

The closer to the top of the overflow box that you run the water level (controlled by your gate valve), the quieter the overflow box because the only noise is the water falling from the tank surface down to the water level in the overflow box.

Optimally, you will want the water in the overflow box to be almost as high as the tank surface, with the emergency drain standpipe, just higher than that.

Finally...consider using the Herbie AGAIN for the water that drains from the refugium into the sump. As is, you'll have silent flow right from the tank to the refug and sump, but the water that drains from the refug to the sump might be noisy. Use the hole you've already made as the emergency, and create another bulkhead at the bottom and run it as a Herbie. That's what I did and it works perfectly.

There are actually quite a few similarities between what you are doing there and what I have already done. You are welcome to drop by and examine and listen to plumbing, if you like. (I don't know how close you are to Coquitlam...)

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Untamed, thanks for all the advice! I just read it quickly but I will read it again slower later on. Your right about the gate valve...I was ****ed when I ordered some of my plumbing online and it arrived much different than what I expected! The main thing was those gate valves, that are not actually gate valves! Im going to have to find a proper gate valve tomorrow.

Thanks again for the advice and I will use the herbie method for the connection between the refugium and sump. Thanks for the heads up on that. That should also keep any bubbles from getting into the sump from the refugium.

I checked JL and ocean Aquatics but neither have 2" Gate Valves. I know Home Depot and Rona do not either. Anyone know where I can get one? It has to be easy to get to though because I have no car right now. Im in Vancouver.

[Canuckgod420]

hey if your still looking for large gate valves check out the plumbing supply stores...ie hillcrest plumbing on kingsway.....or B.A. Robinson.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Yeah thanks, I will call Hillcrest tomorrow. I am still looking. I need to get this gate valve by Thursday if possible.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Untamed, for the refugium to sump "herbie", do you think a ball valve would be accurate enough? I agree that for the overflow drain, I need a proper Gate Valve but I was thinking that for the reugium one, a ball valve would do...maybe not though.

[untamed]

re: Ball valve directing flow to refugium...

I'm thinking that a ball valve will work fine for that application. It will be a bit crude to adjust the flow into the refugium, but once you get it set you'll be fine if you just leave it alone. You'll then be able to fine tune the water exiting the refugium with a gate valve.

As the Herbies don't allow any air into the lines, you can always have the pipes exit silently below water line. That also avoids splashing and bubbling which results in less salt creep everywhere.

[mark]

Can't say nothing about the Herbie as but to listen to Untamed as he's experienced with running one.

For the return you should be able to reduce pipe diameter one size to make a little more manageable after the top Tee, build a manifold (such as like here (http://216.187.96.54/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=36663)) to even out flow and with multiple outlet not have a great loss.
RC calculator (http://reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php) might be a guide.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Can't say nothing about the Herbie as but to listen to Untamed as he's experienced with running one.

For the return you should be able to reduce pipe diameter one size to make a little more manageable after the top Tee, build a manifold (such as like here (http://216.187.96.54/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=36663)) to even out flow and with multiple outlet not have a great loss.
RC calculator (http://reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php) might be a guide.

Do yo mean for the closed loop return or sump return? I think your talking about the closed loop right?

If you are, you say it should be fine to reduce down to a 1.5" PVC after the first "T"? That may help out a lot actually. In a way...Its kind of a weird situation and heres why...

The closed loop pump has a 1.5" outlet. The bulkhead that the return is going through is 2". I figured this is good because I always hear its good to go up a size anyways. So like I said, I figured it would work well if I went from 1.5" at the outlet to 2" right away and then through the bulkhead and used a 2" manifold. As I said though, the 2" manifold is a bit tricky to manage. So your idea to reduce down to 1.5" seems good. Maybe I should just use to reducers right around the bulkhead? So basically the pump goes to the bulkhead at 1.5" and goes through at 2" and then goes back to 1.5". Seems kind of weird but I can't change the 2" bulkhead at this point. Any thoughts???

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

re: Ball valve directing flow to refugium...

I'm thinking that a ball valve will work fine for that application. It will be a bit crude to adjust the flow into the refugium, but once you get it set you'll be fine if you just leave it alone. You'll then be able to fine tune the water exiting the refugium with a gate valve.

As the Herbies don't allow any air into the lines, you can always have the pipes exit silently below water line. That also avoids splashing and bubbling which results in less salt creep everywhere.

Yeah I love the "herbie" style for that exact reason, you can keep bubbles out of the system easily. Well if I can find some gate valves for a decent price, I may do all gate valves instead of the ball valve for the refugium but Im getting to the point where I cannot spend too much more on this tank. All the little trips to Home Depot or Canadian Tire for something small have added up and I just looked at the bills...almost $500 AFTER I thought I had everything already! Anyways, I can't pay $40 for 1.5" gate valves and $50 for 2" which is what I have seen them selling for online so far. Hopefully I can find some cheaper locally.

[banditpowdercoat]

Can't say nothing about the Herbie as but to listen to Untamed as he's experienced with running one.

For the return you should be able to reduce pipe diameter one size to make a little more manageable after the top Tee, build a manifold (such as like here (http://216.187.96.54/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=36663)) to even out flow and with multiple outlet not have a great loss.
RC calculator (http://reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php) might be a guide.
Ya, you can reduce the loop pipe diam from what your vertical lift pipe diam is after a T. Just like in drains, you cna go down 1 pipe size when using 2 pipes. So, 2". you can go to 1.75 or 1.5 on a closed loop manifold. Acctually, you can reduce the size after every T in the manifold. As long as they are even on each side of the main inlet T. Remember, your loosing GPH flow in the manifold after every tank outlet, so no need for the whole manifold to be the same size as the inlet. There will be a point in the manifold where the water will acctually be still, where water form the left and rigth sides meet, and basically stop. I did mine with a outlet in the center, where I belive the water will meet, so hopefully to not get stagnent section of the manifold. Weather it worked or not, that remains to be seen

Also, if your pump has a 1.5" outlet, you may be better off to keep the rise pipe form sump to tank that size. Increasing the vertical pipe to larger will add more water in the vertical colum, thus more weight. More weight the pump has to lift, the more head pressure the pump will see, the less GPH it will flow. On Horizontal, and bends, larger is better, but not uphill. Just ask any Firefighter. I'd much rather haul the 1.5" hose up 3 storys than the 2.5"

Just changing the pipe pump outlet pipe to 2" for the bulkhead will be fine, and I think, would be the best bet

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Ya, you can reduce the loop pipe diam from what your vertical lift pipe diam is after a T. Just like in drains, you cna go down 1 pipe size when using 2 pipes. So, 2". you can go to 1.75 or 1.5 on a closed loop manifold. Acctually, you can reduce the size after every T in the manifold. As long as they are even on each side of the main inlet T. Remember, your loosing GPH flow in the manifold after every tank outlet, so no need for the whole manifold to be the same size as the inlet. There will be a point in the manifold where the water will acctually be still, where water form the left and rigth sides meet, and basically stop. I did mine with a outlet in the center, where I belive the water will meet, so hopefully to not get stagnent section of the manifold. Weather it worked or not, that remains to be seen

Also, if your pump has a 1.5" outlet, you may be better off to keep the rise pipe form sump to tank that size. Increasing the vertical pipe to larger will add more water in the vertical colum, thus more weight. More weight the pump has to lift, the more head pressure the pump will see, the less GPH it will flow. On Horizontal, and bends, larger is better, but not uphill. Just ask any Firefighter. I'd much rather haul the 1.5" hose up 3 storys than the 2.5"

Just changing the pipe pump outlet pipe to 2" for the bulkhead will be fine, and I think, would be the best bet

Yeah I do understand the concept of increasing adding weight and pressure but I hear a lot of times that these pumps preform much better when increased by 1/2". The main issue here is that I HAVE to increase to 2" no matter what to go through the bulkhead. I have no choice there. Its just a matter of when. I was going to increase to 2" right away near the outlet and keep the manifold at 2" (still may). Otherwise, I think I will increase to 2" right away and then after the top "t", reduce down to 1.5".

I do understand what you are saying but there was also a specific reason people increase the pipe size on these pumps I just forget why:redface:

I know for sure that Mag pumps should always be plumbed with a size bigger pipe. The manufacturer states that themselves.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I think you edited your post after and added basically what I was saying but in one sentence instead of a paragraph! LOL :lol:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Anymore advice for the closed loop? I think I may just stick to going right to 2" stuff right after the output and then stay at 2". Im just unsure about what to use at each outlet? I don't really want to use loc line...

[banditpowdercoat]

I have seensome just cut little pipe pieces, heat the end and squish it to create a nozzle. I went Loc Line with mine mainly because this is my first tank, and I dont know exactly how the water should flow and such. so, 7 1/2" loc line nozzles should give me pretty good adjustability......I hope:lol: For almost $100, they better HAHAHA

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I have seensome just cut little pipe pieces, heat the end and squish it to create a nozzle. I went Loc Line with mine mainly because this is my first tank, and I dont know exactly how the water should flow and such. so, 7 1/2" loc line nozzles should give me pretty good adjustability......I hope:lol: For almost $100, they better HAHAHA

Yeah I know what you mean! Plumbing is so ridiculously over priced for what it is!

So since I cannot seem to find a 2" Gate Valve in town, you you guys think reducing my overflow return down to 1.5" would be a bad idea? I thought 2" was overkill to begin with, so maybe? I can easily get 1.5" Gate Valves. The return pump is big though (Mag 24) and may need the 2" drains. I really do not know at this point.

The other option would be to scrap the whole herbie thing and do a traditional type overflow and return.

[untamed]

I wouldn't scrap the entire idea just because you are having a difficult time finding a 2" Gate Valve.

Here's an unconventional idea that could help you test the concept. After testing, you might find that a 1.5" Gate valve might be fine.

Take your 2" drain and split it into 2 lines. Put a 1.5" gate valve on one of the lines. Make the 2nd line 1" for a first test. Rejoin the lines back into a single 2" and continue downward toward your sump and fuge. Put union fittings above and below the tees so you can replace it once you figured out how it behaves.

The idea is that the 1" line functions as some restriction, while the 1.5" gate valve controls the total amount of the flow.

Diagram attached.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I wouldn't scrap the entire idea just because you are having a difficult time finding a 2" Gate Valve.

Here's an unconventional idea that could help you test the concept. After testing, you might find that a 1.5" Gate valve might be fine.

Take your 2" drain and split it into 2 lines. Put a 1.5" gate valve on one of the lines. Make the 2nd line 1" for a first test. Rejoin the lines back into a single 2" and continue downward toward your sump and fuge. Put union fittings above and below the tees so you can replace it once you figured out how it behaves.

The idea is that the 1" line functions as some restriction, while the 1.5" gate valve controls the total amount of the flow.

Diagram attached.

Actually thats a pretty good idea. I think though I need to just wait and find a Gate Valve. My fish may just have to hang in there for a bit longer! Its really sad to see the Puffers pacing the glass so much:neutral:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Well I have called just about all the plumbing businesses within Vancouver that I could get to (without a car) and cannot find a 2" gate valve! I think I may give a 1.5" gate valve a try. I have two questions though...

1. I used the calculator on RC to figure out that my return pump will be putting out around 1600 GPH after head loss and elbows, ect.

I believe a 1.5" bulkhead is about 1600 GPH. It seems like if I reduce the drain down to 1.5" it may not handle the return pump very well or may be cutting it close. Does this make any sense?

2. Why are these so expensive! Is this normal?

http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/details/plumbing.php?product_ID=pl-gv125

[untamed]

The amount of flow that you can get through any particular pipe is dependent on the head pressure of the water above it. It is actually the reason that Herbie works. I can't tell you how much flow you'll get in your particular situation.

You'll just have to build it to find out!

JL purchases those valves from Corix. Corix sold a 1.5" gate valve to me for $35...(but I was quite a regular customer there!)

[mark]

For flow amount get in touch with Skimmin on this board.

He's in the process of setting up a tank with a Dart as a return and has been experimenting with Herbies. If not glued up might be able to duplicate your setup for some feedback.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

The amount of flow that you can get through any particular pipe is dependent on the head pressure of the water above it. It is actually the reason that Herbie works. I can't tell you how much flow you'll get in your particular situation.

You'll just have to build it to find out!

JL purchases those valves from Corix. Corix sold a 1.5" gate valve to me for $35...(but I was quite a regular customer there!)

Yeah I do really need to just give it a shot and see how it works for my tank. I have found a 2" Gate Valve from a member here now. New for $20, so a great deal. I feel much better sticking with the 2" drains and valving them back a bit more rather than going with smaller drains. So you were saying to have the primary drain as just a bulkhead right?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

For flow amount get in touch with Skimmin on this board.

He's in the process of setting up a tank with a Dart as a return and has been experimenting with Herbies. If not glued up might be able to duplicate your setup for some feedback.

Yes, I have been following his build. I think I will have to just give it a shot though and see how the herbie works on my tank. I have not glued anything yet because I want to have all the plumbing including the closed loop dry fitted first, so people can look at it and give me advice.

[untamed]

So you were saying to have the primary drain as just a bulkhead right?

That's right. The primary drain (with the gate valve on it) is just a bulkhead on the bottom of the overflow. The emergency drain has a standpipe.

When you first turn it on, water should fall right to the bottom of the overflow box and go out the primary drain. As you close off the valve, you'll hit a point where the water level in the overflow box starts to rise. You want to dial up the water level as high as possible, short of the emergency drain.

My overflow boxes are only 12" deep. I found that I need to keep the water at least 6+" deep to prevent air bubbles being drawn down into the primary when the water falls into the overflow.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

That's right. The primary drain (with the gate valve on it) is just a bulkhead on the bottom of the overflow. The emergency drain has a standpipe.

When you first turn it on, water should fall right to the bottom of the overflow box and go out the primary drain. As you close off the valve, you'll hit a point where the water level in the overflow box starts to rise. You want to dial up the water level as high as possible, short of the emergency drain.

My overflow boxes are only 12" deep. I found that I need to keep the water at least 6+" deep to prevent air bubbles being drawn down into the primary when the water falls into the overflow.

Ok that makes sense. So for water testing, I should start with the gate valve open completely and fire up the return pump and then start to close off the valve? Seems like a pretty good chance for a bit of an overflow until you get it dial in perfectly. How long did it take for you to set it? Would you also start by approximating how much flow you want to go to the refugium before you turn on the return pump? Does that make any sense? I guess I am trying to figure out how to get both herbies working together. Im guessing just a lot of adjusting until it works.

[untamed]

Ok that makes sense. So for water testing, I should start with the gate valve open completely and fire up the return pump and then start to close off the valve? Seems like a pretty good chance for a bit of an overflow until you get it dial in perfectly. How long did it take for you to set it? Would you also start by approximating how much flow you want to go to the refugium before you turn on the return pump? Does that make any sense? I guess I am trying to figure out how to get both herbies working together. Im guessing just a lot of adjusting until it works.


I have 4 separate Herbie overflows in my system and they are all inter-related. Any change to any of them affects the others.

Yes, start up with the gate valve wide open. It will be noisy and the water level in the overflow box will be right on the bottom. That will prove to you that you've designed with excess capacity.

Next test: Shut the gate valve 100% closed. This will test your emergency overflow. This is the test that will make you nervous as the overflow water level rises up to that emergency level. You need to know for sure that the emergency overflow can take ALL the volume. Be ready to stop the return pump, or open that gate valve fast....just in case. (and make sure that the emergency overflow actually has pipe connected to it!!!!)

When you go to fine tune things, you'll find that small changes to the gate valve make a difference. It also takes a while for the system to equalize after a change, so adjust slowly.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I have 4 separate Herbie overflows in my system and they are all inter-related. Any change to any of them affects the others.

Yes, start up with the gate valve wide open. It will be noisy and the water level in the overflow box will be right on the bottom. That will prove to you that you've designed with excess capacity.

Next test: Shut the gate valve 100% closed. This will test your emergency overflow. This is the test that will make you nervous as the overflow water level rises up to that emergency level. You need to know for sure that the emergency overflow can take ALL the volume. Be ready to stop the return pump, or open that gate valve fast....just in case. (and make sure that the emergency overflow actually has pipe connected to it!!!!)

When you go to fine tune things, you'll find that small changes to the gate valve make a difference. It also takes a while for the system to equalize after a change, so adjust slowly.


Ok that all makes sense but what about getting the refugium herbie and main drain herbie working together? It seems like it would be hard to work on fine tuning both at the same time, especially if you are starting with both wide open. I guess Im just a bit nervous. If it were just the overflow using a herbie, I would feel fine but the refugium one worries me.

[untamed]

Ok that all makes sense but what about getting the refugium herbie and main drain herbie working together? It seems like it would be hard to work on fine tuning both at the same time, especially if you are starting with both wide open. I guess Im just a bit nervous. If it were just the overflow using a herbie, I would feel fine but the refugium one worries me.

While the two Herbies will inter-relate, it's no big deal. They will inter-relate because they can influence the water level in the sump. If the sump level stays constant, they will be very stable. Trust me, it isn't difficult to adjust multiple Herbies to achieve a steady state.

Remember, you should be able to flood anything, provided your emergency overflows are in place. If the Herbie valves get really mis-adjusted, then the water just flows down the emergency pipes and makes a lot of noise. You adjust them, and wait for the system to achieve a new steady state.

Here's some fun...I won't even attempt to explain this in detail...but I can manipulate the salinity of my system by adjusting the Herbie valve that runs between my small sump and the main sump. Hint: evap water is monitored by a float valve in the main sump. If you can get your head around that one, then you have achieve Herbie mastery!

[Delphinus]

Ooh, ohhh, I know! I know! .. By adjusting the Herbie valve, a robot comes online and goes and gets a cup of salt and then dumps the salt into the sump? Cool!!

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

While the two Herbies will inter-relate, it's no big deal. They will inter-relate because they can influence the water level in the sump. If the sump level stays constant, they will be very stable. Trust me, it isn't difficult to adjust multiple Herbies to achieve a steady state.

Remember, you should be able to flood anything, provided your emergency overflows are in place. If the Herbie valves get really mis-adjusted, then the water just flows down the emergency pipes and makes a lot of noise. You adjust them, and wait for the system to achieve a new steady state.

Here's some fun...I won't even attempt to explain this in detail...but I can manipulate the salinity of my system by adjusting the Herbie valve that runs between my small sump and the main sump. Hint: evap water is monitored by a float valve in the main sump. If you can get your head around that one, then you have achieve Herbie mastery!


I also guess a robot named Herbie!



Or maybe because you can let more flow from your smaller sump into the larger one and therefore not allow the auto top off to kick in even though evaporation is still the same.

But maybe both answers are wrong. Im not entirely sure how your sumps are set up!

[untamed]

Or maybe because you can let more flow from your smaller sump into the larger one and therefore not allow the auto top off to kick in even though evaporation is still the same.

But maybe both answers are wrong. Im not entirely sure how your sumps are set up!

Bingo! That valve controls the water level in both sumps, but evap replacement only happens based on the main sump water level. It was totally unplanned, but kind of neat when I figured it out.

You'll have exactly that same relationship between your fuge and the sump.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Bingo! That valve controls the water level in both sumps, but evap replacement only happens based on the main sump water level. It was totally unplanned, but kind of neat when I figured it out.

You'll have exactly that same relationship between your fuge and the sump.

Yeah and if my fish do not behave I can threaten them with salinity changes! :twised:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

So I picked up the glass for my overflow today and I may have made a mistake. This is to be a toothless overflow. I wanted it to be as close to the top of the tank as possible but I may have got it cut a bit too close. I got it cut so that it will only be 3/8" under the eurobracing. Will this be too close to the top of the tank? It should only be a very thin layer going over the overflow anyways but it looks close. What do you guys think? Does it make sense how I explained it?

[mark]

I measured on mine and the water surface to the bottom of the Eurobrace and I have 3/4". I held up an edge at about 3/8" and can't see the distance being a problem other then when the 4 way goes around I might get rippling that high. It would just mean it would get salt creep on the bracing more than I get now. Maybe also the water level might go over if I plunged my arm in until the overflow caught back up.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Yeah thats pretty much what I thought. I think it will be fine...Well it better be. I am also wondering though if the overflow will be big enough to handle the 2" drain. I may have made it too small.

Just realized I have another small issue. My RO unit came with a faucet adapter but I cannot use it in my apartment because it is for threaded faucets (like laundry sink ones) and I just have the kitchen and bathroom sink faucets to use (not threaded just regular faucets). Is there anything I can pick up from somewhere like home depot to use?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Actually the glass is too tall. It just barely leaves 3/8", maybe even a bit less. What a pain...I guess I have to have new glass cut. I don't think they can trim off just a tiny bit for me. :sad:

This is all because the eurobracing is a bit lower and thicker than I thought it was. Its 1/2" glass.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

A few more things Im really not sure about. I started doing my plumbing and realized that there is not much room to plumb another herbie drain between the refugium and sump. Im also wondering about the fact that the refugium is not raised up much higher than the sump. Is this even going to work? If the refugium is draining from near the bottom and then into the sump by gravity, it would barely be a drop at all. I don't know if that makes sense but this doesn't seem to work out in my head. Is it possible just to keep them at the same level and connected through bulkheads near the bottom. That way just allowing water to flow through the refugium into the return section of the sump?

I will draw a picture:mrgreen:

[Delphinus]

If I understand you correctly I think it will work. The only thing is that without the "drop" that you will not be able to push too much water through the refugium because the back pressure might cause the refugium to overflow. So you might need to experiment with flowrates to find the optimal rate, but I think it's not a showstopper. Good luck!

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Super rough and simple but here we go. Just something basic like this. And yes, I was actually concerned about back pressure but I do not want too much flow through the refugium anyways. I have seen this done before but I do not know how it worked exactly. It does seem like it would be hard to get flow moving properly through the refugium.

Like I said before though, because of space the second herbie would be hard to do. plus I do not see how it will work without much of the height difference. I may be missing something though!


http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/blah.jpg

[Delphinus]

Oh - hmmm - why not just raise the refugium a little (put it on bricks or build a little platform) so that the top is at the same level as the top of the sump? Then it can't overflow (well, not without the sump overflowing too).

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Oh - hmmm - why not just raise the refugium a little (put it on bricks or build a little platform) so that the top is at the same level as the top of the sump? Then it can't overflow (well, not without the sump overflowing too).

Actually it is already a little above, so I guess I could just leave it as it is. Im really just running into problems with space. If I had more space in height and width, this would all be no issue.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00527.jpg

[mark]

To bad about the glass.

You're layout would work.

Any water movement you have have from the pump pushing the water up and gravity filling the void. More will be from the sump as less restriction but you'll get some movement from the ref, plus you have a little head difference working for you as well.

I'm laying mine out very similiar (http://216.187.96.54/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=36380) and it's my project for today so should be able to tell you how it works, at least for me. I do have a problem, being a low max flow, but more do the size of interconnect (1"). Hope your planning something like 2".

On my ro/di have the output going to a Tee, one side is a float valve in the sump, other side to container I use for mixing water. Find the John Guest valve (http://www.johnguest.com/part_spec.asp?s=PISV04B_D1)works well as connects easy to the tubing, HD carries.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

To bad about the glass.

You're layout would work.

Any water movement you have have from the pump pushing the water up and gravity filling the void. More will be from the sump as less restriction but you'll get some movement from the ref, plus you have a little head difference working for you as well.

I'm laying mine out very similiar (http://216.187.96.54/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=36380) and it's my project for today so should be able to tell you how it works, at least for me. I do have a problem, being a low max flow, but more do the size of interconnect (1"). Hope your planning something like 2".

On my ro/di have the output going to a Tee, one side is a float valve in the sump, other side to container I use for mixing water. Find the John Guest valve (http://www.johnguest.com/part_spec.asp?s=PISV04B_D1)works well as connects easy to the tubing, HD carries.

Well my mistake with the glass but they said they can take 1/2" off for me. So not too big a deal.

I will read through your thread and see what your doing. It will help.

As for the RO/DI I am actually talking about how I can hook up the unit to a faucet that is not threaded. The RO until came with an adapter that threads into the intake for the unit and then threads into the faucet. Problem is, I do not have a faucet with threads. I would need something that just fit onto the faucet like a slip...if there is such a thing?

[mark]

Okay, you're talking the supply to the ro/di, for some reason I thought the faucet Aquasafe has for the output.

Usually a bathroom or kitchen faucet has a screen secured with a screw in collar. If you can get the collar off then there's adapters that go on the fine threads on the faucet then allow a garden hose to be screwed on (old water bed days) or other pipe threads.

If that doesn't work, under the counter tee into the cold water line after the shutoff valve and before the tap-set. Between the tee and the ro/di put a valve in so you can remove the unit. Might even be better this way as not tying up the sink in the bathroom or kitchen if making up water.

[Patrick1]

Hey Guys,
If you want an easy solution to installing your R/O.. Go down to the hardware store and buy a Ice maker install kit, they are like 20 bucks it comes with a needle valve that mounts to your water line under the sink. Once you attach it the valve will punch it's own hole in the water main. No need to call a plumber, and the hose diameter is the same as the R/O and has the fittings to connect to your R/O lines.. For mine rather then install new sewer parts, I drilled a hole in one of the sink draines and ran the waste water hose into it, a little dab of silicone and it was done... The whole thing took like 10 minutes to install.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Thanks guys. I figured out how to hook it up to the kitchen sink.

I also had the glass cut down a bit. Very nice of the glass guys to do it and for free! It was my mistake after all. I was checking to see how it fit now and its great but I noticed that it will be hard to silicone the pieces to the bottom corners of the tank because of the silicone thats already there to attach the wall of the tank to the bottom. Any ideas? Its quite thick black silicone and stops the my overflow glass from sitting flush against the back glass.

I guess I will also direct this on going question I have had about using a herbie between the fuge and sump to Untamed, since he seems to be the expert! Looking at the picture above, will it actually work to have a bulkhead at the bottom of the fuge (right) and still create a herbie overflow to the sump on the left??? It seems like there is no where near enough height difference. I mean the water would go through a gate valve and then would have to go through another bulkhead in the sump but only about 6" below where the output (fuge) bulkhead will be. Seems like without much gravity working there, it may not work. A whole lot of back pressure too. Anyways I have no idea, I could be wrong.

[mark]

For the overflow glass, just take the corner off where it goes to the tank silicone.

Not to open this all up again but pls clarify, going from your drawing (and being your primary drain is blue and other that's above the 'n' in return is the emergency).

-You'll have a single gate valve just below the bulkhead and above the Tee to control the flow to the primary Herbie drain.

-A ball valve (as course adjustment okay) on the right leg after the Tee over towards the ref to control how much actually splits into the refugium (other leg, goes left dumping unrestricted to sump).

-The emergency drain line dumps, if needed, directly to the sump.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

For the overflow glass, just take the corner off where it goes to the tank silicone.

Not to open this all up again but pls clarify, going from your drawing (and being your primary drain is blue and other that's above the 'n' in return is the emergency).

-You'll have a single gate valve just below the bulkhead and above the Tee to control the flow to the primary Herbie drain.

-A ball valve (as course adjustment okay) on the right leg after the Tee over towards the ref to control how much actually splits into the refugium (other leg, goes left dumping unrestricted to sump).

-The emergency drain line dumps, if needed, directly to the sump.

Yes, thats exactly the plan.

The main drain will be adjusted by the gate valve to get the right flow to match the return pump. The return is split with a "T" though to direct some flow to the refugium on the right and the bulk of the flow to the sump on the left. The refugium flow is controlled by a ball valve. The return pump is being run externally right between the fuge and sump.

Now what Im struggling with is how to connect the refugium back to the sump. I originally was going to have a bulkhead near the top and let water gravity feed back to the sump through 2" plumbing but that would cause all kinds of bubbles that I do not want. So, Untamed had the idea of adding a second herbie to the connection between the fuge and sump which is a great idea BUT I think the fuge is not elevated enough and I don't see how the herbie would work there...but I am not sure of that. Next I thought I would keep the fuge and sump basically level with each other and connect them at the bottom with 2" bulkheads. Only problem here, is controlling flow between them and making sure the fuge is flowing into the sump properly.

Any help would be great because Im just sitting here staring at it with no idea right now how to proceed. I was hoping to finish the plumbing today. :razz:

[untamed]

...

So, Untamed had the idea of adding a second herbie to the connection between the fuge and sump which is a great idea BUT I think the fuge is not elevated enough and I don't see how the herbie would work there...but I am not sure of that. Next I thought I would keep the fuge and sump basically level with each other and connect them at the bottom with 2" bulkheads. Only problem here, is controlling flow between them and making sure the fuge is flowing into the sump properly.

Any help would be great because Im just sitting here staring at it with no idea right now how to proceed. I was hoping to finish the plumbing today. :razz:

This works...Even if the fuge and sump are very similar heights, it is the difference in the water levels that powers the flow. For simplicity I have not drawn any baffles in the fuge. Without baffles, algae would get sucked out of the fuge. I'm sure you've got that part covered.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Ok...Dont get too sick of me! Im really sorry but I have another idea that would work with the space I have. What about just having the return pump fed by a "T" that connects to both the fuge and sump. Like this:

http://www.canreef.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=6220&size=big&cat=500

I do not know how to post pics from the user galleries here into a thread. :sad:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

This works...Even if the fuge and sump are very similar heights, it is the difference in the water levels that powers the flow. For simplicity I have not drawn any baffles in the fuge. Without baffles, algae would get sucked out of the fuge. I'm sure you've got that part covered.

Yeah see that will not work then unless I really keep my sump water level really, really low. Basically, I could only have about 8" of water in it for this to work. I also cannot raise my fuge any higher. I think I need to figure something else out.

I am still working on the fuge baffles actually. Its hard to find something that will work as baffles in a rubbermaid container. So far I have nothing.

[untamed]

OK...assuming that is a pretty large pipe joining the two tanks....in your new drawings the fuge and sump are connected and will act as one single tank. The water level in each will always remain equal height. It doesn't matter where you put the return pump, the behaviour will be the same.

That will also enable the water to flow silently between them. (assuming both ends of the connection stay under waterline) I imagine that the end effect will be a very deep sump in order to keep adequate depth in the fuge.

Imagine reducing the size of pipe that runs between the two tanks. At some point, the pipe gets so small that the fuge needs to generate more head pressure to push through the water that is coming in. At that point, the fuge water level starts to rise in relation to the sump and you've created an non-adjustable Herbie.

If the pipe is too small to carry the incoming flow, even when the fuge is full (max head pressure), then the fuge overflows.

The bottom line is...if you put a gate valve on that line, you'll be able to adjust the water heights between the fuge and sump to whatever you want. If you want 10" in the sump, and 11" in the fuge...you can do it. Sump level is controlled by the total amount of water in the system...fuge level is controlled by the Herbie valve. Just make sure you have an emergency overflow on the fuge.

My answers are very long-winded. Why don't you just call me, or come visit? PM me if you are interested.

[mark]

Going from the photo, think about this.

Have the top of the sump and ref and about the same height. Inter connect with a large bulkhead as low as you can on the ref (no valve). Assuming the pump is on the far right of the sump with no baffles to the right, the water level in the ref will be the same as the pump compartment. Use a auto topoff to maintain.

Have no baffles in the ref other than a strainer on the bulkhead and maybe some eggcrating in front of the strainer. Negative is if the strainer gets blocked ref overflows so place a second interconnect at the top.

With the interconnect below no bubbles like Untamed said.

Not sure of your planned height in your in the pump compartment but adjust the ref height to max the volume in the ref tub.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Going from the photo, think about this.

Have the top of the sump and ref and about the same height. Inter connect with a large bulkhead as low as you can on the ref (no valve). Assuming the pump is on the far right of the sump with no baffles to the right, the water level in the ref will be the same as the pump compartment. Use a auto topoff to maintain.

Have no baffles in the ref other than a strainer on the bulkhead and maybe some eggcrating in front of the strainer. Negative is if the strainer gets blocked ref overflows so place a second interconnect at the top.

With the interconnect below no bubbles like Untamed said.

Not sure of your planned height in your in the pump compartment but adjust the ref height to max the volume in the ref tub.

Yeah this is similar to what Untamed has suggested. I just got off the phone with him actually. I am going to have a gate valve though in the line between the fuge and sump to create a bit of a herbie effect. He was explaining to me how it doesnt matter if they are at the same height, having a gate valve will still allow me to keep the water height in the fuge higher than in the sump if I wanted or the other way around. Im not sure if that makes sense how I wrote it but I think I "get it" now.

So there will be a 2" line between the fuge and sump with a gate valve to control the water level in the fuge therefore also controlling how much water flows between the two. There will also be an emergency drain at the top of the fuge, just like a regular herbie.

I will post pics as soon as I get the plumbing father along.

But thank you to all you guys who have helped so far...I couldn't have even gotten this far without all your help!

[untamed]

...having a gate valve will still allow me to keep the water height in the fuge higher than in the sump if I wanted or the other way around. ...

...it won't ever work the other way around. You won't ever be able to make the fuge have LOWER water level than the sump. You probably wouldn't want that anyway!

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

...it won't ever work the other way around. You won't ever be able to make the fuge have LOWER water level than the sump. You probably wouldn't want that anyway!

No I would not. Wasn't really thinking of doing that either...just trying to say with the gate valve I get more control over the water levels!

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Well most of the plumbing is just about done. I will post pics when I have a chance. I have a question though...

My closed loop is mostly dry fitted but I still am not sure about how to do the outputs. I am thinking of just using 2" 90's or 45's that are not cemented so that they can be pointed in most any direction. Any one have any reasons I should nto do it this way. Besides the extra cost, I do not want to use lock line because its output is too small. The other problem I have though is the Eurobracing getting in the way but I think I can work around that. Any thoughts?

[Delphinus]

My 75 has the outputs as non-glued in 90's off a T. Low tech, but it works fine. 5 years in now.. :eek:

I find Locline isn't all that restrictive though .. I guess the one counter argument is that if you do find it too restrictive, you can add more outputs (via T's) and then you have more flow-aiming options.. And it should be easy to work it around the Eurobracing. Just a thought. :)

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

My 75 has the outputs as non-glued in 90's off a T. Low tech, but it works fine. 5 years in now.. :eek:

I find Locline isn't all that restrictive though .. I guess the one counter argument is that if you do find it too restrictive, you can add more outputs (via T's) and then you have more flow-aiming options.. And it should be easy to work it around the Eurobracing. Just a thought. :)

How easy is it to go from 2" T's to loc line though? What is involved? I have never used loc line before actually.

What fittings would I need? For example, I see only 3/4" loc line on J&L's site. Would this even be big enough? I do agree, I could add more T's and that would actually be pretty good.

Would I basically have to use PVC fittings to reduce down from 2" to 3/4" and then use a 3/4" Modular Piping MPT Connector Fitting (threaded) and then the loc line and then whatever nozzle? Sound about right or is there a better way?

Nevermind. I just figured out what I would need to spend to do this right with Loc line and I cannot spend that much more on this tank right now. Its like close to $200 for just the loc line fittings for all my outlets and thats without any PVC fitting I would need! So probably like $225-250...Not happening! I added up everything the other day and Im at about $2000 now...Thats ontop of all the stuff I already had. Thats actually not so much for a tank of course but this was suppose to be a cheaper one! Especially being a FOWLR.

[Delphinus]

You need a bushing to go from 2" to 3/4" threaded (NPT or whatever it's called) and then the Locline just threads into that.

Sorry, I didn't realize your returns are 2", that is quite a size reduction. Although you could think about having more outputs I suppose. You could either plumb additional outputs with the pipe, or you could use Locline Y adapters (e.g., http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/details/plumbing.php?product_ID=pl-mp034y )

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

You need a bushing to go from 2" to 3/4" threaded (NPT or whatever it's called) and then the Locline just threads into that.

Sorry, I didn't realize your returns are 2", that is quite a size reduction. Although you could think about having more outputs I suppose. You could either plumb additional outputs with the pipe, or you could use Locline Y adapters (e.g., http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/details/plumbing.php?product_ID=pl-mp034y )

I was editing my post while you wrote this one...Its pretty much out of the question. Im at 8 outlets now and the cost would be far too much. I really just don't like being able to see the 2" 45's coming down into the tank but oh well, for now they will have to do I guess...

[Delphinus]

Yeah, I understand. Maybe just do the 90's and see how they do, you can always change things around down the road if you want. Just keep them as high as possible maybe then you don't see them as prominently.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Yeah, I understand. Maybe just do the 90's and see how they do, you can always change things around down the road if you want. Just keep them as high as possible maybe then you don't see them as prominently.

Yeah Im working on keeping them high enough so they will not be seen much but its hard with such a shallow tank! I will also be painting them black with Krylon as well which I think will help because the back of the tank is painted black. We will see...

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Well I hate how the 45's coming down into the water look. Especially the front ones! Would a "half" closed loop be a waste? Like if I have 6 outlets across the back and then one on either side? I think because the tank is so shallow it would still give more than enough flow in the tank. This tank will be bare bottom, so a few will be pointed at the bottom. I actually think this pump may be too big for this closed loop anyways. I may have to end up downgrading.

[mark]

Since you're still playing around, have you tried to reduce to say 1" then build your manifold fr there with mutiple outlets?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Since you're still playing around, have you tried to reduce to say 1" then build your manifold fr there with mutiple outlets?

Yeah maybe a good Idea. I have 1" PVC already, I would just need a few reducers and T's, 90's and 45's. Might worth a shot at this point.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Well I ended up finding really nice sized 1.5" fittings for the outlets. They are all ABS stuff. The ABS is way smaller looking even in the same diameters. I also like using the transition cement for PVC and ABS for some reason! I think it will work well. Should be done tonight and I will post pics.

[Jason McK]

I'll just sit here and tap my foot

Waiting for Pics LOL

Good to see your makeing head way. Can't wait for the pics

J

[banditpowdercoat]

I'll just sit here and tap my foot

Waiting for Pics LOL

Good to see your makeing head way. Can't wait for the pics

J
Ahh, Tap your foot.... A heck of alot easier than smackin head LOL

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I'll just sit here and tap my foot

Waiting for Pics LOL

Good to see your makeing head way. Can't wait for the pics

J

Yeah I have been a bit slow with the pics lately. It is all coming along...WAY slower then expected but its gettin there! I really do not want to make too many mistakes. I do need to get this thing up and running though because my fish are also tapping their feet and waiting.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Ahh, Tap your foot.... A heck of alot easier than smackin head LOL

Easier and doesn't hurt as much!

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Not a bunch of pics yet but...A few for advice. This is what Im thinking for the closed loop outlets. Would the 90 and then 45 coming off of a 2-1.5" reducer kill a lot of flow? How does this look design wise?

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00575.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00577.jpg

[Delphinus]

I'm not 100% positive on this but I think you will get a slight pinching effect, but, I think you actually want this because of the multiple outlets. You want the manifold line to be slightly pressurized so that each nozzle outputs more or less the same flow as any other. Otherwise, water will just mostly go out the first nozzle and the further away each nozzle will have less and less flow.

Overall the multiple outlets will compensate for each individual outlet having a slight reduction, so it's not like you're not getting the most bang for the buck on the pump.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I'm not 100% positive on this but I think you will get a slight pinching effect, but, I think you actually want this because of the multiple outlets. You want the manifold line to be slightly pressurized so that each nozzle outputs more or less the same flow as any other. Otherwise, water will just mostly go out the first nozzle and the further away each nozzle will have less and less flow.

Overall the multiple outlets will compensate for each individual outlet having a slight reduction, so it's not like you're not getting the most bang for the buck on the pump.

Yeah thats exactly what I was thinking. Each outlet will get that slight pinching effect but after thinking about it, I thought that might help, especially because the pump is fed up on the right side. I was worried that most of the flow will be just the right. I still think the right will get more flow from the closed loop BUT the return from the sump will be on the left and should even things out.

Anyways, I hope this works because I am out of ideas if not and I really like how this looks...Or really how its not very noticable. The ABS is very easy to work with and is much smaller and thinner than PVC. Already black too!

If anyone else thinks theres a problem though, can you please let me know soon because I want to cement the parts that will be cemented. I should be able to do a fresh water test of the whole system on saturday!

[banditpowdercoat]

Looks good. But, I wouldnt rule out the possibility of having to go to even smaller nozzles. Basically, to pressurize the loop a bit, the are of all the nozzles will have to add up to less than the area of the feed pipe. You might even get good results going to 3/4" outlets?? Freshwater test will tell you, and as long as you dont cement the nozzles in, which I wouldnt anyways for cleaning purposes, you can adapt down to smaller real easily. I'd fill tank to just below nozzles and try it, if your drain/overflow will allow that. That way you can see the water coming from each pipe easily.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Looks good. But, I wouldnt rule out the possibility of having to go to even smaller nozzles. Basically, to pressurize the loop a bit, the are of all the nozzles will have to add up to less than the area of the feed pipe. You might even get good results going to 3/4" outlets?? Freshwater test will tell you, and as long as you dont cement the nozzles in, which I wouldnt anyways for cleaning purposes, you can adapt down to smaller real easily. I'd fill tank to just below nozzles and try it, if your drain/overflow will allow that. That way you can see the water coming from each pipe easily.

Yeah I can probably fill it a bit lower for the test. Im not so sure about anything lower than 1.5" nozzles though. I really don't want to reduce from 2" to something like 3/4" or I may as well have used a much smaller pump too. I think this pump at 6000 GPH can give good flow to all the outlets even at 1.5". I could be wrong though.

The nozzles will not be cemented in either because I do not want them stuck in one place. The tank is so shallow that Im sure this will give more than enough flow to the whole thing and then some.

[banditpowdercoat]

Ahh yes, 6000GPH Somehow I missed that. I will be interested to see how she works :D Just got my top loop for the 45g done tonight. Most of the other plumbing done as well. Just need to find a reasonably priced 36" tank for my Freshwater fish, so I can steal their present tank for the sump LOL

[mark]

It looks GREAT.

Like how you got the 45° set up, you're making your own Omni Flex (http://www.oceansmotions.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=41&osCsid=e1e9e93f3a994dcf37bba6aa172c8fe4) nozzles

Close the loop to more evenly balance flow from all outlets (reference here (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pbh2oret.htm)). And you know the manifold has to be good, Holmes on Holmes pushes the manifold for houses)

Get so water in there and try it out.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Ahh yes, 6000GPH Somehow I missed that. I will be interested to see how she works :D Just got my top loop for the 45g done tonight. Most of the other plumbing done as well. Just need to find a reasonably priced 36" tank for my Freshwater fish, so I can steal their present tank for the sump LOL

Yeah your closed loop looked great! When do you figure you can have it all going by? If your like me, your getting really impatient! Well honestly, my fish are the ones getting really impatient...

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

It looks GREAT.

Like how you got the 45° set up, you're making your own Omni Flex (http://www.oceansmotions.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=41&osCsid=e1e9e93f3a994dcf37bba6aa172c8fe4) nozzles

Close the loop to more evenly balance flow from all outlets (reference here (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pbh2oret.htm)). And you know the manifold has to be good, Holmes on Holmes pushes the manifold for houses)

Get so water in there and try it out.


Oh yeah its going to be all closed for sure. I had thought about doing half of one type thing but realized it would never work as well. I am going to cement the actually manifold tonight except of course all the outlets. I hope I can keep the outlets "uncemented", even the black reducers you see in the pics but I thought the pressure might be a bit much and eventually pop out the reducers. I guess cementing them in is ok but I like to have the option of changing still if I want.

[banditpowdercoat]

Yeah your closed loop looked great! When do you figure you can have it all going by? If your like me, your getting really impatient! Well honestly, my fish are the ones getting really impatient...

Well, I'm hopin to have water by end of the month, better be sooner HAHAHA. We just re arranged the living room tonigth, put the tank in another corner. And then I did the smart thing and checked my finances....I'll be over in the corner here sobbing uncontrollably LMAO

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Well, I'm hopin to have water by end of the month, better be sooner HAHAHA. We just re arranged the living room tonigth, put the tank in another corner. And then I did the smart thing and checked my finances....I'll be over in the corner here sobbing uncontrollably LMAO

I hear you about the finances! I can not really change or add much for a good long while now. Even going today to get the ABS stuff for the outlets ended up being like $50...not so bad BUT when you add up all the $50 trips, it gets a little crazy. Well over $2000 now. Im pretty excited to get some fresh water in it saturday and then if all goes well, drain it and start adding RO water maybe Monday or Tuesday. I want to get the LR in the tank by next Tuesday or Wednesday and see if there is a bit of a cycle which I expect. We will see though if that all goes as planned. Nothing really has so far!

[banditpowdercoat]

LOL, Ya I just spent $67 on more fittings tonight too, My 3rd trip for PVC, and I think I'll have one more. Alot of stuff for a 45g, dang LOL. But, I am serious on wanting this tank, so I aint givin up :D

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

LOL, Ya I just spent $67 on more fittings tonight too, My 3rd trip for PVC, and I think I'll have one more. Alot of stuff for a 45g, dang LOL. But, I am serious on wanting this tank, so I aint givin up :D

Yeah I think Im at about 4 trips after my initial $500 worth of plumbing delivered to my door and each were over $50. So Im guessing about close to $700 just on plumbing...Now that I think about it then, Im more like at $2500 on this tank. I also have ended up with enough plumbing to literally plumb two tanks I think. I have changed plans so much. I guess its worth having but if i had known exactly what I would need and how much from the beginning, I bet my plumbing would have been more like $400. Oh well...

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Some Closed Loop and Plumbing pics. Nothing too fancy. Its all about 90% done now. Really just need to plumb the skimmer and then test it all out. I am going to start by testing the closed loop later on tonight or tomorrow morning. The closed loop does not have the 45 degree fittings on the ends of the output yet except for the one close up pic. I also threw in a few pics of my fish and gecko...he does not really like the water too much :razz:

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00592.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00591.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00593.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00588.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00590.jpg

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00589.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00587.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00543.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00542.jpg

He was puffed up so HUGE but by the time I got the camera, this was all that was left of the "puffiness"...Too bad. He was about double this size and had all kinds of spikes.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00552.jpg

Our 2 year old Gecko named "Velcro". He has become such a cool gecko. He loves our cats. They have regular morning meetings in the corner of his terrarium. The cats will go to the same corner every morning and scratch on the glass, the gecko comes over and jumps on the glass right infront of them! He would be a terrible wild gecko I think, he really does not realize they probably want to eat him! Or maybe he does and is teasing them!

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00556.jpg

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00554.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00586.jpg

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Maybe my only real big regret so far is that the overflow silicone is clear and not black. Clear still of course shows up but black would have been really nice looking! Im still debating ripping it out and then redoing it black but I also want to get this thing done so...Might just have to live with it! Its all I can see though:neutral:

[banditpowdercoat]

Nice Pics GSP. How big is your Puffer??


LMAO, wife just read this reply over my shoulder, Puffer she said, your asking another man about his puffer??? ROFL

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Nice Pics GSP. How big is your Puffer??


LMAO, wife just read this reply over my shoulder, Puffer she said, your asking another man about his puffer??? ROFL

Hahaha...I know, my fiance has mentioned something to me along the same lines once! I think I may also have been asking someone about how big their puffer was.

He is actually not too huge yet...about 8", maybe 9 max. He still has a lot of growing up to do. Hopefully he will not outgrow this tank before I can upgrade. So far he has grown about 6" in 9 months. I thought that was a bit slow but he seems very healthy and happy so Im not too worried. Actually I am hoping that hes a "runt" and stays smaller. Maybe about 13" or 14"...I can only hope though!

My eel is pretty big too...haha

[untamed]

I don't know which pump that photo is...but I don't see any valves on the intake or output. Stop and think about how you are going to remove/clean/replace that pump once the tank and pipes are full of water...

[untamed]

Also...I think you need a larger strainer on that CL intake. If you can't find a larger strainer, put a T on the intake and put two of those strainers on. As is, the amount of suction you'll have there makes that a deathtrap for lots of critters.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I don't know which pump that photo is...but I don't see any valves on the intake or output. Stop and think about how you are going to remove/clean/replace that pump once the tank and pipes are full of water...

Yeah I realized that after I had cemented everything and that is actually why I have put this all aside for a while. My fish will have to wait. Im really sick of dealing with all this at the moment. Would have even been nice to have paid someone to do it. A friend of mine did that last year and it has worked out great for him!

So anyways it will most likely be a few weeks or a month until I do much more.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Also...I think you need a larger strainer on that CL intake. If you can't find a larger strainer, put a T on the intake and put two of those strainers on. As is, the amount of suction you'll have there makes that a deathtrap for lots of critters.

What kind of strainer were you thinking though? I really do not want to see a bigger strainer in the tank. I already hate how that one looks! I actually wanted something smaller. I was going to test it with this one and then see how it goes. I knew there might be a lot of suction but there are also no fish smaller than about 10" going in this tank. Maybe the eel could get hurt though...

[untamed]

What kind of strainer were you thinking though? I really do not want to see a bigger strainer in the tank. I already hate how that one looks! I actually wanted something smaller. I was going to test it with this one and then see how it goes. I knew there might be a lot of suction but there are also no fish smaller than about 10" going in this tank. Maybe the eel could get hurt though...

Bigger surface area. Something like this:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=usplastic&category%5Fname=53&product%5Fid=2457

No fish smaller than 10"??? Yikes. I would agree that fish that large shouldn't have a problem with that intake.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Bigger surface area. Something like this:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=usplastic&category%5Fname=53&product%5Fid=2457

No fish smaller than 10"??? Yikes. I would agree that fish that large shouldn't have a problem with that intake.

Well there was only going to be 2 fish. Both are around 8" or 9" now. The porc should only reach about 10-12" and the Stars and Stripes about 12-15", so yeah no fish under 10". My eel is about 24" and very strong. Im not sure he could get hurt by the intake but like I said, I was going to do a test and see how hard the suction is. Because I will be putting this project aside for a few months now, we have decided to sell the porc. I think when this does get set up, it will just be the S&S and the eel. Just makes things easier having the one fish!

Anyways...That test will not be happening for a while now. Your right about the valves on the output and input of the closed loop pumps. Thats exactly why I wanted to post everything here and hope people caught these kinds of things. Well, it would not be very hard to cut out a section of the input and add a valve but for the output, theres no room between the union and reducer. I will not have the time or desire to fix this until after the new year when I will be taking 3 months off work. I am working about 60 hour weeks right now and just do not have the time. I needed to have this tank done by last weekend before I picked up all this freelance work but it obviously did not happen, so I have no problem waiting until January to finish this up. Thats just the way things go I guess...

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Well after being really discouraged and out of time the other night I stayed up until about 4am and finished the plumbing and fixed added valves to the input and output of the closed loop pump (Thank you Untamed for noticing that).

I was going to bed and thought I would go see my Stars and Stripes Puffer, "Crush", as I do every night. I couldn't find him. I looked all over the tank and finally found him in the PVC cave he usually sleeps in but he was not moving. Turned on the lights to find that Crush had passed away. I have no idea what happened, he was his usual playful, energetic self just hours earlier. This has been absolutely devastating. I did not end up sleeping at all the other night. I tested the water MANY MANY times trying to figure it out but found nothing out of the ordinary. Nothing has changed in his tank that I can find. I checked him all over and there were no marks on him. His eyes looked fine and same with his gills. I have never had a fish just die on me and I still can't believe he is gone:cry:

Crush was an incredible companion for the year I had him and he will be very, very missed. Its already weird to not see him come to the glass everytime you pass his tank and spit for food. Its so sad too that he died the night his tank was pretty much ready to go.

Anyways, really not sure whats going to happen now. Tank is ready for water testing but I just have not had any motivation for a few days now to even bother. My fiance wants me to keep going with setting it up and get my porcupine and eel in there but I am now seriously considering selling them and taking a break. Crush really was like family to us and its been so hard to see him go...







Sorry about the length of that. Its just been very upsetting.

[Delphinus]

I'm so sorry to hear that.

I know how you feel (well, we probably all do, at some point). Take some time to grieve but press forward. You'll likely have more regrets about ending it on a note like that than if you kept with it.

[mark]

That's so sad, sorry.

[banditpowdercoat]

Dang GSP, I am sorry to hear that, but like delphinus said, Take a breather, then come back. You know youll kick yourselff if you dont.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I'm so sorry to hear that.

I know how you feel (well, we probably all do, at some point). Take some time to grieve but press forward. You'll likely have more regrets about ending it on a note like that than if you kept with it.

Thanks. I have lost fish in the past of course but its never felt like this. None of them were quite as personable as this guy or really connected with me like he did.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Dang GSP, I am sorry to hear that, but like delphinus said, Take a breather, then come back. You know youll kick yourselff if you dont.

Oh yeah I can't give up the hobby for sure. I just meant I may take some time away from it for a bit but I doubt it because Im pretty attached to my porc too and I would have to give him up.

Thanks to all you guys for the support.

I really do wish I knew what happened though. I guess it doesnt matter but I can't help but feel I did something wrong, just can't think of what it could have been.

[Jason McK]

Oh man sorry to hear about Crush.

Im glad your sticking with it

J

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Oh man sorry to hear about Crush.

Im glad your sticking with it

J

Thanks Jason. Well everyone here makes it impossible to give up because you constantly see great, beautiful tanks and fish! Plus you guys have all been so helpful with setting this tank up over the past month or so, I would hate to see it all go to waste.

I guess my fiance and I will rethink the sticking of this tank now but most likely it will be the same just with one less. Maybe just the Porcupine and eel. My fiance has always wanted a Dogface Puffer but I do not think I want another Puffer.




Jason I was just checking out your Tank Blog and man that FTS is gorgeous! What a beautiful tank! I was actually just out in Ladner last weekend, I should have seen if you had a few minutes to show it to me. Maybe next time.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Well I was just looking through old pictures of Crush back in the big tank and thought I would post a few...


He looks so little in these pics!

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00100.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00069.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00142-1.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00058.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00145.jpg

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Ok, back to the tank!

I filled the tank with about 10G of water this morning but had to stop. Seems that the overflow has a slow leak near the bottom, so when I add water tot he tank it gets into the overflow a little. This is obviously a problem.

My question is, do I need to get the water back out completely to add more silicone to the overflow or can it be done wet? Im guessing it all has to come out.

[banditpowdercoat]

You will need to remove the water for the silicone to set up properly

[mark]

Good to see you're moving ahead.

If it's the overflow tower itself, does it really matter if it leaks?

Realize yours is laid out different, but thinking on mine with the heights of the Dursos and room in the sump, if the towers leaked, wouldn't matter.

Now if it was the overflow bulkheads...

[Delphinus]

I guess the only thing is that if it was leaking into the overflow with only 10g of water then it's probably worth addressing now. Ordinarily I wouldn't sweat a tiny leak into the overflow if the tank was full and the overflow empty, it just means the water would equalize into the overflow. But if you had a short standpipe or just a strainer on the bulkhead (eg. if it was a Herbie overflow) then potentially the water level in the tank is at risk in a power fail situation, so in that case I'd fix it. But I think if you're noticing water slip in with only 10g then it's probably going to be a pretty fast leak when the tank is completely full, so I think either way, better to say a few swear words now (Well OK that's only if you're me ;) ), then err on the side of caution. It's easier to deal with this now (and not ever know if it's "really" needed) than to find out down the road when there's livestock in there that it IS a problem and you have to deal with it then.

Just my $0.02 :) Murphy's Law and all that ;)

[mark]

If you're are going to re-silicone, might want to check if you can just smear some new over the old or would you need to cut out.

When I re-did a QTank, I just cut out the fillet but didn't worry about where the plates actually met and worked okay.

[banditpowdercoat]

Ya, if your sump can handle the whole tank draining down to the level of your drains, then no problem. I would, for piece of mind want my sump to be able to hold all the tank water down to drain level. That way, if there is a problem in future, you know for sure that the sump will not overflow.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Ya, if your sump can handle the whole tank draining down to the level of your drains, then no problem. I would, for piece of mind want my sump to be able to hold all the tank water down to drain level. That way, if there is a problem in future, you know for sure that the sump will not overflow.

Yeah I would too but this is a Herbie overflow and therefore the bulkhead is on the bottom and no stand pipe except for the emergency one. This is actually why I wanted a bit of a standpipe but people here were telling me not to have one at all. On RC I have seen most people use a short standpipe for the main drain of the herbie.

Thing is, its a small leak at the bottom of the overflow but if the power went out, it could drain the entire tank, slowly. I hope I can just add more silicone ontop of whats there but Im not sure. How can I tell if I need to cut it all out or just put a good layer ontop?

The overflow itself is very stable and well attached. I tried before to pull it off to see how well it was attached and it wouldnt budge. I used so much silicone on the outside of the overflow that Im really surprised it has a leak! I think it may be just in the corner where the overflow glass meets the tanks silicone.

[Delphinus]

I don't know how to make the call on pre-cutting the old or just gooping over top.

When I make an overflow, it's never a thing of beauty and it usually takes me 2 or 3 tries before it's completely watertight (I usually just goop over top).

I suppose you could try gooping over top and see how it goes. Hope for a lucky break :) Or if you're feeling ambitious, just cut it and reseal it. But it's probably worth resealing on both sides of the overflow (if you can).

[banditpowdercoat]

Ahh, ya. I was thinking about the herbie style, but with my first time siliconing plexi to glass, and the worry about a leak, thats why I went Durso. That and I am to lazy to drill my tank for larger bulkheads LOL

[mark]

Yeah I would too but this is a Herbie overflow and therefore the bulkhead is on the bottom and no stand pipe except for the emergency one. This is actually why I wanted a bit of a standpipe but people here were telling me not to have one at all. On RC I have seen most people use a short standpipe for the main drain of the herbie.

No stub at all? You just have a open bulkhed in the bottom of your overflow?

Can't see why you wouldn't have a stub but just lower than your emergency standpipe for issues just such as this. Think tuning would be similiar, you have a pipe run below you bulkhead so just basically just adding an extension above.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

No stub at all? You just have a open bulkhed in the bottom of your overflow?

Can't see why you wouldn't have a stub but just lower than your emergency standpipe for issues just such as this. Think tuning would be similiar, you have a pipe run below you bulkhead so just basically just adding an extension above.

Well I had a stub with a strainer and a few people told me not to do that. I think I will go back to a stub but forget the strainer. There really is not reason I can think of not to have a small pipe on the bulkhead...Like you said, its really no different than an open bulkhead. I think then I can just goop a bunch of silicone ontop and hope it works. If not, at least the whole tank will not drain if power goes out, just to below the short length of pipe.

Actually Herbie himself has a standpipe for both the regular drain and emergency drain...Not that his is necessarily the best but it seems to have been working for many years now.

Well I have most water drained now. Its going to be hard to get all the water out completely...Maybe I should bust out the wet dry vac!

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I found the leak, it was a small gap in the corner. I added a bunch of silicone on the inside of the overflow and outside. It looks ugly but I think it should work.

How long does silicone take to cure? I want to water test as soon as I can.

[banditpowdercoat]

The silicone should be nicely cured tomorrow, if you never put it on real thick. I bond auto parts instantly and put into service within the hr, but the tank, I would wait overnigth

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

The silicone should be nicely cured tomorrow, if you never put it on real thick. I bond auto parts instantly and put into service within the hr, but the tank, I would wait overnigth

I did put it on pretty thick, so I will wait a few days. I am in no hurry anymore because Crush is gone and now my porc has ich all of a sudden. I have never seen a fish so covered in ich but yet show no other signs of being bothered by it. Its so bad that its ALL over his body, every fin and even a bit on one eye. But he keeps swimming, eating, nothing different about him. He will now go into QT with hypo for 6 weeks. So like I said, no hurry anymore to get this tank up. It will just sit there with no fish anyways!

[banditpowdercoat]

Damn, sorry to hear that. I got a silly Q though, I have been in FW for years, but never got desieases that I know about, but occasionally, a neon will pass etc. What does Ich look like?


My SW tank is on hold for a while too. Financally in trouble ATM. First time in 5 years that the overdraft is maxed out. OOPS my bad. Got carried away buyin tank stuff, and finishing my snowmobile project.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I took a bit of time away from this tank and feel much better about finishing it now! I filled the tank with RO water today and began testing the CL...I think its too much flow. Im not so sure my puffer will like it. Seems a little bit too strong. Im not sure yet what I will do to fix that but otherwise the closed loop works well. A little less flow on the left side as I thought but still a good amount. Actually the left side is better than the right because its a bit less...Only other problem so far is that the pump is way too loud! Im not sure if it will get quieter but Im scared to turn it on again when my fiance is home. I promised her this tank would be quiet:neutral: Maybe it will get a bit quieter once its used a bit longer...One can only hope!

I will post pics soon.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Yeah so the Sequence 5800 pump is WAY too loud, not to mention the amount of vibration is ridiculous! So I have absolutely no idea now where to go from here...Even the Mag18 is too loud...The skimmer is too loud...Man this all really sucks. :sad:

[Der_Iron_Chef]

How is it loud? What type of PVC are you using? (sorry, haven't read the whole thread, maybe you already said). The reason I ask is because, some people use spa flex PVC to connect their return/closed-loop pumps so that it absorbs some of the rattle or chatter. Additionally, maybe you could put the pump on some neoprene or something to absorb the noise? Line the stand with something (carpet? too ghetto?) to absorb more noise?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

How is it loud? What type of PVC are you using? (sorry, haven't read the whole thread, maybe you already said). The reason I ask is because, some people use spa flex PVC to connect their return/closed-loop pumps so that it absorbs some of the rattle or chatter. Additionally, maybe you could put the pump on some neoprene or something to absorb the noise? Line the stand with something (carpet? too ghetto?) to absorb more noise?

Its Flex PVC already and I have a few layers carpet Underpad under the pump. Its quite loud. Loud enough that watching TV with it on is annoying. The floor under the stand is vibrating and Im sure would **** off the people downstaris eventually...It ****ed me off after about 10 minutes.

I may try some of your suggestions but I think we may get rid of the pump all together and go back to powerheads. Im not sure though what I would do with the bulkheads though...I guess just plug them???

[banditpowdercoat]

WOW. My Mag18 is pretty quiet acctually. Much quieter than I had thought it was going to be. You must have sensitive ears LOL

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

WOW. My Mag18 is pretty quiet acctually. Much quieter than I had thought it was going to be. You must have sensitive ears LOL

Did it get quieter after using it for a while? Mine was bought used and is a few years old, maybe thats the problem. Whatever the reason, we have decided we HAVE to replace all the pumps or else just scrap the project. I think we have decided though to just go back to powerheads and forget the closed loop. Its the biggest problem. Hopefully it will all work out.

[mark]

At the start people where commenting on the monster pump and you posted quiet. Realize now it's plumbed but what's really changed, how where you running it on the test, what was it sitting on, was the fan pointing the other way, etc?

If you can't get it quieted down don't abandon your plumbing but look into what might drop in it's place. I've got a Dart (same make, sort of) and a close fit (2" in, 1.5" out). It's not whisper quiet but can guarantee way more quiet than yours. There's also the Snapper.

Quote from a marinedepot page (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idproduct~MM1136~tab~0.html) "Quiet Sequence pumps installed near areas of relaxation and entertainment generate minimal noise levels For example, the 1/4 H.P. unit has 52 dB noise level at 10`. A normal conversation is 60 dB for reference." And the Dart is 1/8HP.

If you can try to hear one though first. I offered a reefer in Edm to come over and hear mine, I sure someone in Van would do the same.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

At the start people where commenting on the monster pump and you posted quiet. Realize now it's plumbed but what's really changed, how where you running it on the test, what was it sitting on, was the fan pointing the other way, etc?

If you can't get it quieted down don't abandon your plumbing but look into what might drop in it's place. I've got a Dart (same make, sort of) and a close fit (2" in, 1.5" out). It's not whisper quiet but can guarantee way more quiet than yours. There's also the Snapper.

Quote from a marinedepot page (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idproduct~MM1136~tab~0.html) "Quiet Sequence pumps installed near areas of relaxation and entertainment generate minimal noise levels For example, the 1/4 H.P. unit has 52 dB noise level at 10`. A normal conversation is 60 dB for reference." And the Dart is 1/8HP.

If you can try to hear one though first. I offered a reefer in Edm to come over and hear mine, I sure someone in Van would do the same.


It did seem quiet when I ran it in my bathtub with some old plumbing I had. It was on the floor there. I have no idea why its SO loud now. One of the biggest problems is how much it vibrates in the stand and all the way to the floor. I can feel it from across the room! Regardeless of what we do, it will be without this pump and most likely with powerheads instead of a closed loop. Ive pretty much had it with this build and just want to enjoy a tank!

[Todd]

I have followed this thread from the beggining, as the tank that I wanted is very simalar, it has been interesting to follow the planning and progression of the tank. Hope that you find something that works for you. Hopefully I have better luck with my plumbing / equipemnt (next week!) then you have had.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I hope you have better luck too!

Well I got the pump a lot quieter with carpet under it but I still think I may go with powerheads instead. If I can sell the pump in the next week, I will grab a few Tunze Stream 6080's. Im still glad I tried to closed loop because I have never built one but with such a shallow tank, its really not working too well.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

For now, we have decided just use a few Koralia 4's for flow until next year when I will upgrade to Tunzes. We already have one Koralia 4 and a Seio 1100 to use and will add another Koralia 4. That along with the Mag 18 return, should be enough flow. This way my fiance get the sand she wanted too! I think I can hide most of the powerheads behind the very tall rock pillars, so it will not be so bad. You could see all the closed loop outlets anyways and they stood out pretty bad, so a few powerheads will not make any difference. I would buy the Tunzes now but it was working out to be about $1000 and we are going on vacation soon...not a good time! I think I will buy them in the New Year when we get back. Darn Canadian dollar is screwing things up too (I get paid in US dollars). Anyways, I will set it all up by tonight and finally should have the LR in the tank! YAY!

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

So I capped the Bulkheads from the closed loop and will be using powerheads like I said above. I ended up deciding to buy two of the mods kits for Maxi Jet 1200's making them 1600 GPH and they are quite impressive now. I also bought 2 Koralia 3's. I thought the 4's were WAY to big and would be a huge eyesore. The 3's are much smaller and along with the Modded Maxijets and mag 18 return, will be more than enough flow. Although I would have like to keep the closed loop, this has turned out very good I think. You will see 2 powerheads near the top of the tank and the others are hidden. I think I will keep the maxijets in sight since they are even smaller than the Koralias.

If anyone is interested, I will post pics. Most of the LR pillars are also done and looking pretty good. The first 2 reach right to the top of the water. It creates a pretty cool look.

[Jason McK]

Pictures would be Great

J

[banditpowdercoat]

I am still interested :D Just got my RO unit today. Dang do these things take along time to make water hahahaha. I am having second thoughts about my loop too. Not because it wont work, but because I am having a heck of a time finding something of suitable size for a sump that will fit in the base. Still wana see your tank full :D

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Yeah I wish the RO units could make water WAY faster!

Here are a few pics. This is not the final aquascaping at all but I just wanted to get some of the rock in there. I have 300 lbs. total LR but will not use all of it I don't think. Right now I have about 100 in the display and I will keep about 100 in the sump and refugium I think.

The glass is a bit foggy and as you can see, I still have not put the doors on the stand or canopy! That I will do today.

The water level is also a few inches low because I am not running the sump yet. I have to make a few changes after taking out the closed loop. Right now I only have the 2 Koralia 3's in the tank and they are not too bad.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00673.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00671.jpg

[banditpowdercoat]

Hey, this may be a stupid Q, but I should have all my water ready in buckets before getting my LR and LS? I am going to have to have it shipped on the bus from JL. could I get away with half filling my tank before ordering the rock?? Just be like 2 days for my RO to make enough water I think. Just wondering how much time I have with the LR.

Lookin great BTW I allready want a larger tank, like yours.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Hey, this may be a stupid Q, but I should have all my water ready in buckets before getting my LR and LS? I am going to have to have it shipped on the bus from JL. could I get away with half filling my tank before ordering the rock?? Just be like 2 days for my RO to make enough water I think. Just wondering how much time I have with the LR.

Lookin great BTW I allready want a larger tank, like yours.

Yeah I would have saltwater ready for sure. You could do just half your tank or really just as much as you need to keep the LR wet. Then just keep some flow going with a powerhead or airstone. I guess you would most likely need a heater too. The longer your LR is out of water, the longer the cycle will take generally. I would try to put it straight into saltwater that is the right salinity and temperature if I were you. Good luck! When do you get your LR?

[banditpowdercoat]

OK, thats what I was figuring. Not meaning to hijack your thread or nothin. Dunno when I'll get my LR, still working on getting a sump. Was planing on using my present FW tank for a sump, but we cant afford to upgrade the FW tank, so I'm lookin for a 15-18g tank I can use

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Well the tank is starting to look good. I added about 40 more lbs. of LR to the display and also a few more kinds of macro algae. I am looking for as much macro algae as possible to make this a "planted" tank. Unfortunately, its hard to find a wide variety of macro algae so far. J&L pretty much just had the usual suspects. Anyone who has any ideas of where I can pick some up, please let me know.

I am also looking for stocking ideas...So far this is what I have in the tank:

Porcupine Puffer
Green Spotted Puffer
Long Nose Hawkfish
Carpenters Flasher Wrasse
Yellow Tail Damsel

I was thinking of a Flame Angel and maybe a few Anthias but Im really not sure. All I know is, no tangs and no fish that get over 6" because I want the Porcupine to be the biggest fish in the tank and hes looking like he may not be a huge porc. His growth is really slowing down now that hes about 6". I figure he will most likely reach only about 10" which I guess is pretty common for them in captivity. Anyways, fish ideas would be great!

I also have another decision I have to make...Do I keep my Snowflake Eel? Right now he is in another tank by himself but the goal is to have only one tank. Im very hesitant to keep him in this new tank because he is getting so big and he really makes a mess of the sandbed and rock work. I love this eel but he can be a bit of a pain. The other problem is that he is very aggressive and my Hawkfish is quite small still. Im worried that the eel will eat any small fish I want to keep in the tank...:neutral:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Few updated pics of aquascaping and fish...Ideas welcome! Again, camera phone pics, so quality is not great.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00700.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00695.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00696.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00691.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00689.jpg

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00687.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00699.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/Justinpsmith/DSC00683.jpg

[banditpowdercoat]

OK, that last one, what is that???? I kn ow, I sound dumb LOL, it's a puffer, right? Daughter's eyes lit right up when she seen the pic. na d I am still new at identifyin LOL

Lookin awesome BTW

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

OK, that last one, what is that???? I kn ow, I sound dumb LOL, it's a puffer, right? Daughter's eyes lit right up when she seen the pic. na d I am still new at identifyin LOL

Lookin awesome BTW

Hahaha, yeah its my puffer when he puffed up! He was angry because he wanted more food and I would not give it to him. There are two pics of him there. This puffed one and another where he is not puffed.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Well we have decided to change skimmers. My fiance is not so crazy about the PM Bullet being in our living room beside the tank and Im not either. It does not fit under the stand though because the stand is somewhat short and the skimmer return has to be above the water line of the sump.

I am on my way to pick up an ATI BubbleMaster 200 to replace the PM. I have heard nothing but good things about these and it will fit in the sump and under the stand. Hopefully this will be the last skimmer for a while!

I have also added two more fish to the tank from QT...A 6" Golden Head Sleeper Goby and a 4" Orange Lyretail Anthias. In our other QT, we still have a few more fish for the tank and then that will be it I think. Just looking to find macro algae still...

[michika]

Are you still debating about your eel? I would probably say that it/he shouldn't be in the big tank with the smaller fish.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Are you still debating about your eel? I would probably say that it/he shouldn't be in the big tank with the smaller fish.

Oh no more debate. He has to go to a new home soon. Im just holding on to him as long as I can (as long as he is comfortable) because I really really like this eel. But no we went in a different direction with this tank and it is much less aggressive than before. With the Stars and Stripes dying, that took away a huge chunk of the tanks bio load and like I said, we decided to go with smaller fish. Kind of all started when we found the cutest little Flame Angel. Hes about the size of a toonie! Very cool little fish. Hopefully he will behave once he gets bigger.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I also got the bubble master 200 home and set up today. What a quick, easy skimmer to set up! And powerful. Im impressed already. I have to work out the water level in the sump still for it but that will take some experimenting I think. Anyone have advice with these skimmers???

[Skimmer Juice]

Do you have lids ? I had two hawks and they both jumped, and I have 4inch euro brace. Tank looks great.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Do you have lids ? I had two hawks and they both jumped, and I have 4inch euro brace. Tank looks great.

Yeah I have a canopy that he should not be able to jump out of. It has a mesh backing that fits tight to the tank. I also have the eurobracing actually but I assumed he could easily jump that. He has not shown any signs of jumping but I guess they usually do not...they just do it one day!