View Full Version : Pinched mantle & freshwater dip
Has anyone given there clam a freshwater bath. Its suggested for 20min. or so. Seems to be the only solution to a pinched mantle but it gives me the willies.
One of my derasa clams, which are usually not inclined towards this disease, seems to have just developed it out of the blue. How the heck does that happen? Sheez? I cant see taking a nicely growing derasa and plunging it into freshwater but would hate to see it spread, if thats what it is, to my other clams. I already noticed a very small amount of mantle, turned at the back of my larger derasa now. My crocea seems fine so far.
I had a maxima, that I got from another aquarist. Not sure if you remember the pics, but I say it had the disease from the start, when he purchased it. Now the others were not in the tank at the time, and were added right after it died, but I wonder if it can carry over in a tank with no clams for a few days?
michika
10-03-2007, 06:04 PM
I'd head over to Clamsdirect.com and check over their forums for the correct procedure and maybe some experiences. The thought of putting my clams in freshwater gives me the willies too! :D
Delphinus
10-03-2007, 07:32 PM
Clams are more resilient to freshwater dips than you might think - as long as the water is temperature matched. There's an old story about how one guy did a FW dip on a clam, did something else for the 20 minutes, forgot about the clam until the next morning - freaked out - but put the clam back in the tank - and the clam lived happily ever after. They just shut themselves up tight as .. well .. clam, and they can ride it out for a bit.
(This person may or may not have been me - I offer no further comment!)
My biggest concern with FW dips is that sometimes they're attached to a big honking rock and then what do you do? I guess this is an argument against my usual rant about how clams belong in the rock and not the sand (well .. they do! Usually, anyhow, if you look at pictures of clams in the real reef, they're never on the sand, they're literally burrowed into the rock). But having them attached to a smaller rock works better if you ever have to do a FW dip.
Before you do a FW dip though, I would try to make certain it is pinched mantle and not just an irritation (ie, something touched it or is touching it, any vermetids nearly, any aiptasia's tiny or not-so-tiny, a burr on a nearby rock, etc.), or just one of those things. Sometimes my clams will pinch in but only for a day or two, I sometimes wonder if they pinch in a little if they're laying down new shell. But .. I'm not sure.
BTW, these two books are awesome:
http://oceanaquatics.com/store/product/1329/Giant-Clams-in-the-Sea/
http://oceanaquatics.com/store/product/848/Giant-Clams/
(in case you don't have them already that is:) )
Delphinus
10-03-2007, 07:35 PM
I had a maxima, that I got from another aquarist. Not sure if you remember the pics, but I say it had the disease from the start, when he purchased it. Now the others were not in the tank at the time, and were added right after it died, but I wonder if it can carry over in a tank with no clams for a few days?
I missed this part before I posted the other reply.
PM is supposed to be protozoan, so I would guess it could carry over in a tank with no clams for a few days. I'm not sure how long the "fallow period" would have to be, but surely a couple of days would not really be enough?
I will take some pics Mark.
I checked out Barry,s forum, when dealing with my maxima but not recently. Perhaps I will do so again. The info on freshwater baths, came from some RC threads I read last night. They seem to agree with what Tony said but it still gives me the heebi-jeebies.
However, if I have to watch it go down hill like the maxima, I will be totally peed. Just seems such a shame that healthy growing clams, develop something like that out of the blue, unless its related to the last incident as mentioned. Crap, even that was a couple months ago though. You would figure the disease would show before then, if it remains in the tank.
I,ve looked as close as possible, without removal, for other irritants but none to be seen. Luckily the worst one is attached to rubble, so it can be removed but if the larger has the same problem, its attached to a huge flat rock as seen in the TOTM pics.
Tried a couple pics. Sorry but almost impossible to get close without blurring with my camera. The 1st. is the clam in question with the mantle pinching on the left side center.
The other is one I tried to get of the extreme back portion of the larger, which now has some small curling on the rear right. I know its a bad pic but perhaps you can see it.
Thanks for the pics and luck with the clam.
Can't say ever seen picture so under impression it was part of the mantle receding back to the edge of shell, but its more of a curling.
Delphinus
10-04-2007, 02:19 AM
That doesn't look like PM to me ... when I've seen PM, it's been pinched back all the way to the shell. This does seem more like it's curling rather than pinching.
However, having said that, it does seem suspicious if you've had PM recently in another clam. Clams do share communicable diseases quite easily - if you lose one clam in a tank it's a sure bet to lose another in short order.
Sooo .. weighing the options, I would do the FW dip. Basically it comes down to this: the FW bath won't hurt the clam long-term; but if it IS PM, that will kill the clam eventually.. :(
Some good info about PM here:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/jf/index.php
Aquattro
10-04-2007, 02:21 AM
Doug, I have done this many times, no issues. I left one in for an hour, but normally 30 min max will do it. Use RO at the same temp as the tank, nothing else needed.
I finally got up the courage to give the first one a freshwater bath. Looks good after day 2 and no more pinched mantle. :biggrin:
Now I have to figure out how to remove the larger from the big rock its attached to.
Delphinus
10-06-2007, 04:52 PM
Does the other clam also have PM? Bummer.
I'm not sure what I would do. Is there anything attached to the rock (other than the clam that is) that you don't want to lose? I suppose that would do a number on the coraline ... but it will come back eventually.
What about chiseling part of the rock off? I know it sucks, but ... the clam is worth it, right? ;)
I don't know anything about cutting byssal glands. I suppose the clams we buy at the stores have been cut off something, and they eventually regrow, but ...... I dunno, the thought about cutting the clam off the rock gives me the heebie jeebies (I wouldn't do it if it were me)..
Der_Iron_Chef
10-06-2007, 05:06 PM
This is what I found in the forum at clamsdirect:
"If the clam is firmly attached the only thing you can do is try to get the clam to let go.
To do that you can either:
stand and gently sway the clam back and forth, not stretching the threads, but rocking it back and forth and it will let go. this may take a while..
use an ice cube held against the threads and let the clam detach.
use a super clean, sharp razor blade and cut the threads as far from the gland as possible."
That particular rock is about a ft. sq. Tony. May be a little hard. I bugged it all morning during my water change and some tank work. Finally got it to let go. Seems to be no foot left on the rock, so I aasume it basically let go. Easier that its a derasa, I would think.
So into the pot it went, along with my crocea, still attached to its rock whcih is about fist size. Both are out and back in the tank and looking ok so far.
So its now the next day and all three look fine so far. The crocea was not even bothered by it. Open the instant it was back in saltwater. The derasa,s seemed to more upset. All the mantles look fine as of this morning with no pinching or receding.
Well that never worked worth a hoot. All 3 clams are infected again. Stringy snot coming from the pinched mantle portion. Same places as before the freshwater bath.
So, in they went again tonight, for another 1/2hr. Poor clams. :cry: Back in the tank and looking ok, for what they went through. The crocea seems to not even be bothered by the freshwater.
I read a bunch on Barry,s forum, regarding excessive iron from phosphate removers and pinched mantle. So out comes the Phosban, :sad: , in goes extra carbon. Wish I had some Poly Filters or Chemi-Pure.
michika
10-17-2007, 01:06 AM
I'm sorry to hear that Doug. I hope it works out for you this time around.
Any photos?
I will take some pics of the stringy substance if it persists. I did see some last night after placing the clams back in the tank. If its being caused by the iron from a phophate remover, then it may take some time to remove it.
christyf5
10-17-2007, 02:14 PM
FWIW, I never had any success with FW dips for pinched mantle either. Its so hard to treat when the clam is closed up tight as a drum while in the treatment bath.
Good luck! :biggrin:
Clams are looking good with no sign of pinched mantle. Cant say if it was the 2nd. dip or the elimination of my iron based phosphate remover. Or both. FWIW, there was still some stringy attachments after the dip but they have since left. Makes me think the removal of the phophate product and running extra carbon has helped.
Now what to do about phosphates? I may add some later and see if that does indeed cause pinched mantle but hate to put my clams through anymore.
michika
10-22-2007, 05:57 PM
Do you know where on clams direct you read about the iron phosphate removers?
Do you know where on clams direct you read about the iron phosphate removers?
I will have to go find a link for you Catherine, as I dont remember exactly where. I read it in a couple of threads where someone was asking about pinched mantle.
I also spoke to someone on the other day, and they had heard some cases of the same thing. Similar to me, the problem was more severe in derasa clams and I think he also mentioned maxima,s, which is the one the disease came on for myself. He mentioned crocea,s seemed less effected, which would also be my experience.
michika
10-23-2007, 02:56 PM
I just had another clam die on me...no warning, just an empty shell this morning...:( I'm thinking maybe a freshwater dip for all clams is in order.
This isn't right. What's going on with peoples clams?
christyf5
10-23-2007, 03:03 PM
Who knows? Clams are odd creatures. I lost one last week to "white spot disease". I posted it on clams direct and the expert there told me they'd only ever seen/heard of 3 cases. It was the strangest thing, like ich for clams. Then it was dead. Now I just hope it wasn't highly contagious as I have 3 other clams in the tank :confused:
michika
10-23-2007, 03:05 PM
I worry because I added a clam, then had a death, and now another death. I'm not adding anything, but I am extrememly worried.
I removed my iron based phosphate remover, and I have been overzealous about the water changes. Hopefully it doesn't spread.
Sorry to hear about your guys losses. Christy, thats a weird one for sure.
Catherine, do you think its pinched mantle also? As I said earlier, I believe mine came on a maxima, that had a pinched mantle type affliction when I got it from another aquarist. Of course, I never knew what I do about it now. And I never freshwater bathed that one before it died.
I,m going to wait until sure mine are healthy and then put some more phosphate remover back in. I think it was said high iron aggrevates pinched mantle more so than its cause.
michika
10-23-2007, 05:27 PM
I don't think it was pinched mantle for the second death, and the first one I'm not toally sure about. Still I removed my phosban just in case it aggrivates other conditions.
Do you know where on clams direct you read about the iron phosphate removers?
Did you find the threads with that info yet?
michika
10-29-2007, 03:34 AM
I actually found a few on RC and, the clams direct forum.
I actually found a few on RC and, the clams direct forum.
Ok. I posted info regarding gfo on a RC thread but no reply. Tried signing up for clams direct to participate in the same threads there but the sign up does not seem to work for me? :sad:
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