shipping/bringing fish from USA?

[nanoreefer]

ive been looking at all the stuff for sale across the border and with the CAN doller up(or is usa and canada at par now:question: )and the price of gas(it costs me almost $40 to go to J&L)i was thinking of ordering afew small fish/inverts from the US, but ive never ordered anything online before and iam not sure what is involved in shipping across the border, or even if you can? has anyone orderd from us before and could give me some info? or i may be going down sometime and was thinking of bying something but can you just bring it back across? sorry if iam not makeing mutch sence iam just a littel confused about it and the more i read about it the more confued i get

[wetcoast]

If I recall correctly as long as you have the latin name of the fish you are bringing back and enough information on it they will let you through (sort of like a Fish MSDS sheet!) - however - this is all just from word of mouth. Maybe someone can shed further light on.

[Jason McK]

I have found bring anything up form the US a major pain. I have spent the entire day at customs watching my things die before my eye.

J&L, OA, Hidden Reef and others I'm sure all ship throughout Canada. You are much better off ordering from them. It will greatly improve the chances of survival.

They all will special order fish for you as well so you can get exactly what you want.

J

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Long story but I will try to keep it short...This was trying to bring a fish across the boarder by plane but customs is customs...

I was moving back to vancouver from Miami. I had a puffer there for three years and did not want to give him up. I was told it would be no problem taking him across the boarder because he is just one fish and a "pet", not for sale. I knew they would need me to open the container I was shipping him in but figured it would be no big deal. So I get to the airport and they want to see the fish. I get sent to a seperate room for more "paper work". First Im told that no I can't take him because I need a permit. Then another officer says its fine but I have to fill out another form. I fill out the form, only to find out that he thought I had the permit...back to square one. The first officer continues to tell me its a stupid fish and to get another, that it could have disease or that it could even be smuggling drugs!!! (He was a huge puffer). All this time, the bag INSIDE the box that I had filled with pure oxygen for the trip is open:sad: and the puffer is freaking out with everyone coming to see him. I felt so bad for him. This went on right until the plane was boarding and I had to leave without him...Never was able to find out what they did with my big buddy but I can't imagine anyone took care of him:sad:

My point I guess is, there is not only no need to get fish from across the boarder but it can turn into a disaster. As it is now, you cannot just go down and bring fish back without a CITIES permit. Some officers may let you but why take that chance? The only place I have seen much better livestock than here in Vancouver was in Florida. It was much cheaper and way more selection but they can't ship here.

Just order from J&L...

[Chin_Lee]

Importation of Ornamental Fish

In general, importations of ornamental aquatic organisms, especially tropical species held in hobby aquaria, are considered to pose a negligible risk of spreading disease(s) to local species. Thus, Canada, like many other countries, does not require special permits for the importation of aquatic organisms for the aquarium hobbyist. There are, however, some exceptions related to other risks posed to aquatic resources and habitat.
All species listed by the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES) may only be imported if a CITES certificate is obtained. Please see http://www.cites.org (http://www.cites.org/) for current listing of species and http://www.cites.ec.gc.ca (http://www.cites.ec.gc.ca/) for relevant contact information. Hobby species that are genetically modified may be considered as new substances and may require notification under the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, 1999 (CEPA 1999). For more information on the New Substances program, please consult the Environment Canada site at http://www.ec.gc.ca/substances/nsb/eng/index_e.htm (http://www.ec.gc.ca/substances/nsb/eng/index_e.htm).
Some Provinces and DFO Regions require special permits for the importation of certain species of fish, e.g. Koi carp into British Columbia. Further information on BC’s requirements can be found at
http://www-heb.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/intro_trans/transfers_e.htm (http://www-heb.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/intro_trans/transfers_e.htm). Requirements can be obtained through the relevant (receiving) provincial department responsible for fisheries, or the local Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) office.
A Department of Fisheries and Oceans licence, under Section 56 of the Fishery (General) Regulation or matching provincial licence is required for all importations or transfers of live fish and other aquatic species destined for release into fish habitat or for culturing in a fish rearing facilities. Detailed information on obtaining a licence can be found at
www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/aquaculture/code/prelim_e.htm (http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/aquaculture/code/prelim_e.htm) or from your local DFO or Provincial fishery authority office.
For information on how to dispose of aquarium fish, invertebrates or aquatic plants responsibly to prevent the introduction of aquatic invasive species, please go to the following Habitattitude website by the US Fish and Wildlife.
http://www.habitattitude.net/ (http://www.habitattitude.net/)
If you have any questions related to aquatic disease concerns, please feel free to contact the National Registry of Aquatic Animal Health at the address below:
National Registry of Aquatic Animal Health
200 Kent Street, Station 12W114
Ottawa ON K1A 0E6
email:NRFD@dfo-mpo.gc.ca (NRFD@dfo-mpo.gc.ca)
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/images/sidebar_bottom.jpg

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Great info!

...And exactly the reason I say just buy locally! I really don't think there is much you can't find here that you would in say Seattle. Plus I have asked LFS to order fish for me in the past and they have no problem. I have never tried with J&L but they have great customer service and usually will help out.

[Chin_Lee]

I agree with everything you say about buying locally and the LPS.

But according to Department of Fisheries and Oceans, it should be noted that CITIES and special permits are not required for 99% of the fish and inverts that we would like to buy.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I agree with everything you say about buying locally and the LPS.

But according to Department of Fisheries and Oceans, it should be noted that CITIES and special permits are not required for 99% of the fish and inverts that we would like to buy.

Right, so checking the list would help you make a choice. My only other concern though would be getting into a situation like I got into at the airport where they just either delay you or simply deny you bringing the fish in. Even if they are fish that can legally be brought across the boarder without permits, the customs officers can deny you. And you can argue all you want but it will not matter. They have a heck of a lot of power!

[Delphinus]

Another point to consider about buying locally, by doing so you increase the "street cred" of our LFS's because they then get to order that much more. What happens, they have to order so much of this and so much of that, and if they don't order "at least this much" then they get to play second fiddle to the bigger LFS's who get the preferential treatment. So by ordering from say the U.S., it actually could have a paradoxical effect, ie. it supports the view that the U.S. stores are selling more than Canada stores, and thus guarantees that "more stuff" will go that way instead of ours in the future.

Plus, shipments get delayed ... and water is hard to take on a plane .. etc. I think I'd only consider carrying livestock across the border if I was driving, and even then, the few times I've had the opportunity, I decided it wasn't worth the risk of getting tripped up on some procedural item or something like that.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Another point to consider about buying locally, by doing so you increase the "street cred" of our LFS's because they then get to order that much more. What happens, they have to order so much of this and so much of that, and if they don't order "at least this much" then they get to play second fiddle to the bigger LFS's who get the preferential treatment. So by ordering from say the U.S., it actually could have a paradoxical effect, ie. it supports the view that the U.S. stores are selling more than Canada stores, and thus guarantees that "more stuff" will go that way instead of ours in the future.

Plus, shipments get delayed ... and water is hard to take on a plane .. etc. I think I'd only consider carrying livestock across the border if I was driving, and even then, the few times I've had the opportunity, I decided it wasn't worth the risk of getting tripped up on some procedural item or something like that.

Well said. I can say first hand, that loosing my 3 year old puffer that way was horrible! I had to sit in a room and watch him freak out and I would think get pretty cold as people came in to see "the cool blow fish" and ask "make him puff!". Its not fun to watch an innocent fish get stuck in the middle of a boarder problem.

[Jason McK]

Also consider. In my case I was bringing in nudis for aptasia control. these on not listed on CITES or are they regulated at all. But the average customs officer does not know this. It takes a member of fish and wildlife to inspect the items and check their documentation. Fish and wildlife only spend 1 day a week at the customs office in Vancouver. It is possible to have your fish held for 6 days to get proper inspection. not to say this would happen each time. But if your items are flagged or a less knowledgeable customs agent determines that they need to be held there is no way to expedite the release.

I have found that in most cases the customs agent will error on the side of cation so that no band or controlled items get into Canada and unfortunately this is devastating to us

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Also consider. In my case I was bringing in nudis for aptasia control. these on not listed on CITES or are they regulated at all. But the average customs officer does not know this. It takes a member of fish and wildlife to inspect the items and check their documentation. Fish and wildlife only spend 1 day a week at the customs office in Vancouver. It is possible to have your fish held for 6 days to get proper inspection. not to say this would happen each time. But if your items are flagged or a less knowledgeable customs agent determines that they need to be held there is no way to expedite the release.

I have found that in most cases the customs agent will error on the side of cation so that no band or controlled items get into Canada and unfortunately this is devastating to us

Yeah, that pretty much sums up what I was trying to say but just in a much clearer way:mrgreen: