ACk, SpS's with colour, I can't find any....

[IceTurf]

Hey all, I see u guys got huge tanks that appear to be filled to the top with all kinds of stuff. Totally Cool!! *you may as well have an indoor swimming pool*, anyways I'm lookin at making an only SpS coral tank with mainly acro corals. Whenever I look for acro's with real colour their either super expensive and impossible to get or their sold out. *wow, I seem to have bad timing* Anyone got any up for sale or know a place I can get some?
tks
btw I'm lookin for frags and keepin this tank cheap :idea:

[atcguy]

wrong hobby if you want cheap. Nothings cheap here. Try OA for some frags. Many browned out corals will color up over time in a good setup.

[Jason McK]

Try http://canada.frags.org there are a lot of people that might even be local on there

[sphelps]

I swear you basically have to experiment. Some corals may look great in other tanks but not so good in your own and vise versa. My method these days to getting new SPS is placing frags in a frag tank and observing the color over a few weeks, if the color becomes or stays good it gets mounted otherwise it eventually gets traded to another reefer for him or her to play with :mrgreen:

[IceTurf]

in edmonton btw

[IceTurf]

ok tks for the suggestions...anyone selling marine dissolved substance testing kit in edmonton?

[michika]

Can you be a bit more specific as to what you want or are you open to basically anything?

[IceTurf]

Your standard coral reef water testing kit to make sure that the pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are in check among other things.-srry I should make sure to be more specific

[Der_Iron_Chef]

I think the general concensus would be to just purchase quality test kits separately. Salifert and Elos test kits generally seem to be preferred.

[IceTurf]

Corals you mean? I'm aiming *wishfully* for one or two nana frags that have not too bad colouring and one Acropora sp in a blue or purple.

[IceTurf]

I think the general concensus would be to just purchase quality test kits separately. Salifert and Elos test kits generally seem to be preferred.
k tks for the suggestion

[howdy20012002]

A suggestion.
from the sounds of it, you are new to the hobby.
SPS is, IMO, one of the most difficult thing to have in a saltwater tank. take it from someone that has thrown out hundreds of dollars worth of what used to be SPS.
you may want to start with easier things to grow until you become more familiar with the hobby.
it takes years to figure this great hobby out...I might argue that we will never figure it out totally.
I just don't want to see you get frustrated with things.
you should have your tank up and running for several months before even thinking about adding SPS.
I am not sure about the size of your tank, but the smaller it is, the harder it will be to keep these corals alive.
good luck with whatever you decide.
but yea, especially if money may be a concern, SPS is IMO, not the way to go at this point.
Neal

[Joe Reefer]

Continuing on what Howdy said......some people don't try SPS for years after they are in the hobby.

If you are convinced that SPS are the only corals you want to keep.....maybe just try some brown acros to start off with and see what they turn into and how your husbandry skills are. Acros are amazing in the fact that within a few months a dirty brown coral can turn into an amazing speciman if cared for properly. It will be much more rewarding than bringing home the prized nana frag and having it turn into a drab brown cause you have no idea what your doing. JMO

BTW lets hear about your tank.

[sphelps]

Salifert and Elos test kits generally seem to be preferred.

Salifert yes, but I wouldn't recomend ELOS. They may have other good products but the test kits are not up to par.

[IceTurf]

lol i suppose your right. I would hate having a perfect coral and then have it turn to some brown coral under my care.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

Salifert yes, but I wouldn't recomend ELOS. They may have other good products but the test kits are not up to par.

Really? I use several ELOS kits with no issues. Or at least none that I know of!

[andrewsk]

What makes you say that their test kits are not up to par?

I have have found them equal or better than Sailfert in every catergory.

[IceTurf]

hmm, just a particular, and random question, but whats the smallest tank size that you guys have had coral survive/grow in?

[IceTurf]

What difference between the different brands is noticeablly bad at testing water/not up to par *so I know what to avoid*

[Murminator]

I agree with howdy and Joe, I been in reefing for a few years and I still have problems with SPS

[IceTurf]

I think the general concensus would be to just purchase quality test kits separately. Salifert and Elos test kits generally seem to be preferred.

Continuing on what Howdy said......some people don't try SPS for years after they are in the hobby.

If you are convinced that SPS are the only corals you want to keep.....maybe just try some brown acros to start off with and see what they turn into and how your husbandry skills are. Acros are amazing in the fact that within a few months a dirty brown coral can turn into an amazing speciman if cared for properly. It will be much more rewarding than bringing home the prized nana frag and having it turn into a drab brown cause you have no idea what your doing. JMO

BTW lets hear about your tank.

my tank, I should send a picture I suppose, but I'm still setting up so I could go with my 18/20 gallon one which currently has two freshwater fish in it*not expensive ones*, and two 20 gallon rated filters for it *keeps the water crystal clear* and the one I am currently planning on using for a reef tank is totally unlike the ones u guys seem to have. Its 5 gallons, although I need to double check that before I add salt, hex shaped nano tank. Its not quite like the ones you buy currently because its an older one, but it has almost no wear on it. It has a base which can cover up some smaller equipment and an upper lid which allows for perfect light placement so long as the cord goes through the slot. Its about 2-3x taller then it is wide making it nice for display and it has black trimming. *yea nothing like the awesome tanks u guys got but hey, its my first coral one!* For filtration I have the choice between either of the filters for my other freshwater tank rated for up to 20 gallons, and one specifically has a section where you can turn it from a basic run water through filter to a slightly less quality then most, trickle filter. Due to the fact its rated higher then the tank volume I plan on using it for on should be perfect...Right? I also have a water movement device which mixes air with water at controled rates allowing me to increase oxygen levels at a fairly controled rate. To top that off, sorta stupid to have this too along with an air/water movement device, and air pump!

lol so far the tank sits fairly empty of life...

[digital-audiophile]

I think you will find little success in reef keeping with air pumps/airstones, trickle filters.

IMHO HOB filters are only good to use as a "fuge" to grow a little macro if you are not runnign a fuge. Powerheads/wavemakers/closed loop are required for water movement.

Also be wary of a nano tank as your first adventure in Salt Water. I find it's hard enough and a big enough PITA with a 90 and water quality let alone with a small 5 gallon tank.

As "they" say go with as big as you can.. especially for your first reef :) I think you will find most nano-reefers keep large tanks on the side or started with them before downsizing.

[IceTurf]

yea, allot people seem to say downsizing it bad, but I hear 90 gallon tanks arn't cheap. I'm basically trying out the hobby with what i've got, if i fail i've only used about 1 container of salt and 20-30$ on coral and about 20$ on other things.

[IceTurf]

Just a pondering thought, but why is the filter system I got bad for a reef tank? It gives bacteria/small organisms space to thrive and do their job...It also takes out small particles and obviously large ones and it contains locations for ammo-carb. Its huge for the tank its going to be used on. Am I missing some important point here?

[digital-audiophile]

Remember that salt water tanks are an ongoing financial commitment. I would encourage anyone to get into this hobby but it has it's serious ups and downs, nothing involved in SW is cheap, easy or recommended for the faint at heart. It's one thing to keep a beta fish in a vase, it's another to keep reef creatures alive.

People tend to go inexpensive at first (including myself) but then end up throwing all the "crap" away and upgrading. I really do suggest getting the best that you can afford at the time. Look for used equipment, sometimes you can find smoking deals from other reefers on this site, heck most of my current tank I got used and at a fraction of the price of new- tank,lights,sump etc.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

For maintaining a reef aquarium--in particular an SPS-dominated reef aquarium--the water quality must be very high. Dissolved organic waste (aka-fish poop) will not be filtered out by the type of filter you are describing.

It's definitely possible to have a 5G "pico" like you're describing, but I think it would be difficult, especially for someone just beginning saltwater. The ability for something very small (a snail dying) to foul up a 5G aquarium is very strong. Things can go bad in a hurry and there is very little water to absorb whatever it is.

That said, if you still want to make the effort, it IS possible....but I would recommend asking a lot more questions and doing a lot more research first. After all, these are living creatures we are talking about! We don't want to kill anything, if we can help it.

[digital-audiophile]

Just food for thought when it comes to HOB filters and mechanical filtration in general ...

The current trend in reef keeping is filtration through the use of live rock (and live sand to some extent -but I wish I went BB but that is another discussion for another time)

Mechanical filtration tends to become somewhat of a nitrate trap which is a no-no in reef keeping.

Now everyone has their own opinions and mine is one of only thousands out there but I think you will find most people tend to just use live rock, filter socks, and macro algae along with periodic carbon use or a phosban reactor coupled with RO/DI water for top offs and water changes.

When I used to keep a nano tank I would use a HOB aquaclear filter but I filled it with chaeto macro algae and live rock rubble and added a small light to it.

My suggestion is just to read read read, research research research, and once you think you have it figured out, read some more.

There are a lot of really experienced reefers on this site with loads of knowledge, I've only been doing this hobby for 2-1/2 years but I have learned alot form my own mistakes and now try to learn from others mistakes first before I make them myself :)



:) @ Drew - you beat me to it

[IceTurf]

hmm tks guys, say do u happen to have any nano reef extra's left over? Anyways, I am hoping to buy some live rock and live sand off of Cam-uhh http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=35415&goto=newpost
is the link
Yea i've also hear the live rock works wonders for filtration (: so i plan on getting some for my ultra small tank.

I know what u mean when it comes to quality, I have a ferret which I bought in a small cage which looked nice but it turned out to be crap cuz the ferret could move the bars and get out when it wanted to. So I upgraded to a super cage which works perfectly. -ferret nation 142, not that it would concern you guys lol

Hmm I was wondering, what's a good food for SpS coral? Does growing food work at all?

[Joe Reefer]

Fish on this board has built a couple sweet nano tanks, dont see him post much anymore but his thread (http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=20174) still has pics.

[howdy20012002]

u realize that with SPS, you should get Metal Halide lighting.
anything else, it will probably not be bright enough.
Especially in a deeper tank.
Again, if you want to try out the hobby without much expense, SPS is not the way to go.

[rigger11]

i agree with der iron and digital. a 5 gallon sps dominated tank for your first attempt is going to be way to hard to keep in check. ive been playing this salt game for the last 3 yrs and have just recently added my first few sps corals..... if i were you id hold off on the sps and take a look at going bigger. the lighting alone that is required for sps on that tank would be way too much for the tank. how would you keep the temp stable let alon ethe water quality???? used 30g tanks are cheap man id look into that as your first tank.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

:) @ Drew - you beat me to it

Mwaaa ha haaa. ;)

[IceTurf]

hey tks man for the link!

[howdy20012002]

BTW, i also have about 500 extra lbs of LR that I have from other tanks in a holding tank.
so if Cam doesn't work out, It is 6.00 a lb for 50 lbs or less.
Just so you know.
I am not trying to discourage you from the hobby, but you need to do some research on the net for sure for the requirements of the different corals.

[IceTurf]

hmm, I suppose I could try those basic corals, uhh soft white corals *forgets name*, but I want to know how to best suit SpS corals in a nano tank. LoL Originally I was gonna buy live rock from a store but that is uncured and I noticed that you can get it from people such as yourselves for way cheaper plus its cured plus I don't need that much.

I've been spending a while on research....most places try to advertise their product or they don't contain enough information. Although I have gotten some good information. "fish" on this place on the web has interesting nano tanks so i'm gonna check with him how he does it.-tks for the link

Hmm, what kind of growth you got on your coral/how porous is it *going for the best live rock filter system possible here* Would live sand be any good?

[michika]

SPS requires 3 things in my opinion; good flow, exceptional water quality, and approrpriate lighting. I would strongly recommend that you start by figuring out a tank that would allow you to meet and maintain these three parameters before you add anything.

As for feeding SPS can, and do consume some food sources such as phytoplankton, or cyclopses. Most food or nutrients are produced via photosynthesis.

I recommend you visit the library and borrow Eric Borneman's Aquarium Corals book. I know its in the Edmonton system as I have borrowed it before. Its a great source for learning more about SPS, and their components. The more you read into SPS needs, the better you'll be able to ask questions about designing and impletmenting an appropriate system.

[andrewsk]

Can I PLEASE make a suggestion to you. Before you go any further, buy this book and read it from front to back:

Concientious Marine Aquarist
http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/details/books.php?product_ID=lit-cma

It is only $30.00 and will save you a ton of $ in the long run.

You really need to take a step back and do some reading. You are coming at Salt Water with an understanding of Freshwater and that can be dangerous :)

If you love that book and have a few more $ to spare, then read the following.

The Reef Aquarium Volume 3
http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/details/books.php?product_ID=lit-tra3

[michika]

I completely second Andrewsk's suggestions for other reading. They are both great books about general setups. I believe The Reef Aquarium Volume 3 is available at the public library as well.

[IceTurf]

:question:
Mwaaa ha haaa. ;)

OK uhh quoting a link is easier then going back and quoting the person in the quoted the idea, er said er nvm, anyways what if I put live sand in my filter instead or with ammo-carb?

[andrewsk]

Correct me if I am wrong, but Ammonia carb is for Fresh water tanks.

[IceTurf]

Can I PLEASE make a suggestion to you. Before you go any further, buy this book and read it from front to back:

Concientious Marine Aquarist
http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/details/books.php?product_ID=lit-cma

It is only $30.00 and will save you a ton of $ in the long run.

You really need to take a step back and do some reading. You are coming at Salt Water with an understanding of Freshwater and that can be dangerous :)

If you love that book and have a few more $ to spare, then read the following.

The Reef Aquarium Volume 3
http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/details/books.php?product_ID=lit-tra3


I completely second Andrewsk's suggestions for other reading. They are both great books about general setups. I believe The Reef Aquarium Volume 3 is available at the public library as well.

Hmm oh yea, the library, lol. Personally I seem to always get to the library when books are out *like i said earlier, I have bad timing*, but i think i'll try seeing if I can find those books in the library cuz they sound great!! *bombed with info and people helpin me* :mrgreen:

TKS guys, I think once I design a final system I'll scan that in and run it by u many reef owners out there *echo echo echo*

Oh yea keep checkin back here cuz I'll likely run ideas by u guys for a while till I've finalized everything. *being the noob at this that I am*

[IceTurf]

Correct me if I am wrong, but Ammonia carb is for Fresh water tanks.

*checks box*

[IceTurf]

Correct me if I am wrong, but Ammonia carb is for Fresh water tanks.

Sigh, I totally missed that, your right :surprise: *tks man I woulda killed coral if i set everything up*this ammo-carb is for freshwater tanks, hmm whats its match for saltwater tanks?

[andrewsk]

Live Rock and occasional Carbon

[IceTurf]

Whats the difference between just "carbon" and ammo-carb and why only occasional carbon?

[IceTurf]

Live Rock and occasional Carbon

*thinks of running water through large rock*:lol:

[andrewsk]

Whats the difference between just "carbon" and ammo-carb and why only occasional carbon?

The ammo carb has an ammonia removal agent in it that does not work on SW.

I say occasional because Carbon strips out a lot of things and I dont think it should be run 24/7 unless you do a ton of water changes. (You should be doing a 5-10% water change minimum, weekly)

[IceTurf]

hmmk.....y so many water changes?

[michika]

Water changes lets you remove larger debris that your protein skimmer (assuming you use one) can't remove. It also replenishes trace elements, and any major elements that may have become depleated, such as calcium, or magnesium.

[andrewsk]

hmmk.....y so many water changes?

Hoestly man. I say this as nicely as I can...

If you are still at the point in your knowledge of reefkeeping that you need to ask about water changes, carbon etc, you are not ready for SPS.

I would stop right where you are and read read read. Go to www.wetwebmedia.com and read until you cannot read any more. Then buy the CMA book I recommended above and read that.

Then start putting your tank together slowly. Read the other books suggested after that.

It will only take a few weeks, and you will save yourself SO much time and heartache.

:)

[bv_reefer]

Can I PLEASE make a suggestion to you. Before you go any further, buy this book and read it from front to back:

Concientious Marine Aquarist
http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/details/books.php?product_ID=lit-cma

It is only $30.00 and will save you a ton of $ in the long run.

You really need to take a step back and do some reading. You are coming at Salt Water with an understanding of Freshwater and that can be dangerous :)

If you love that book and have a few more $ to spare, then read the following.

The Reef Aquarium Volume 3
http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/details/books.php?product_ID=lit-tra3 ya the ''Concientious Marine Aquarist'' is a great book, packed with useful info, read it front to back, focuses on every aspect you need to know

[Snappy]

I hear so many people saying sps is difficult to keep, I disagree. What is so hard about keeping sps? Keeping anything in a 5 gallon is tough not just sps, there's no wiggle room. A little evap and the salinity is through the roof. I think sps has a reputation for being expensive but it isn't too bad compared to some zoos, rics, duncans, acans, etc.

[EmilyB]

You guys are so funny....I can't believe you do this :lol:

[digital-audiophile]

Just trying to help :) I've wasted so much money on crap equipment and dead fish and corals if I can help someone keep even a few dollars in their wallet that makes me happy :)

[Der_Iron_Chef]

You guys are so funny....I can't believe you do this :lol:

Do what? And if "what" means "answering this guy's questions"...then why wouldn't we?

[IceTurf]

hmm k, when doing water changes is there something I should be adding to the water? Cuz the water I get doesn't contain that many dissolved minerals, elements etc.

[digital-audiophile]

Your salt water mix will give you most of what you need. Depending on what coral/livestock you end up keeping you may need to add suplimental calcium, iodine etc etc.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

Before you go any further, I suggest you follow the advice that many people here have already given. Do your research. Here (http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=104) is also a good place to start.

[IceTurf]

You guys are so funny....I can't believe you do this :lol:
:lol:
Helping me some crime?:question:
:lol:

[IceTurf]

Tks for the advice and links+everything, I gotta jet for today. l8r

[sphelps]

What makes you say that their test kits are not up to par?

I have have found them equal or better than Sailfert in every catergory.

Maybe it's just me but I found there test kits to be on the same level as Hagen. The PO4 did not give me accurate results, and the Ca was pretty bad as well. Counting drops to only get a final reading between 400-450 isn't exactly accurate. In fact you have to buy a separate additive just to get a reading accurate to 10ppm.

With Salifert you get nice syringes which allows for much smaller drops to be added and in the end you read the syringe. Theirs no way ELOS can compete (IMO).

[albert_dao]

I guess the concept behind their kits is that you really only need to know what your parameters are within those increments. I mean, really, does it make a difference whether your Ca is 400 ppm or 425 ppm? That's like a ten hour fluctuation for my tank at home...