Results of my initial research...

[Quinn]

I have been researching my future reef setup for about a month now, and I feel I am near a complete understanding of the basics that I will need to be clear on before I can begin assembling my system. I would like to ask the boards input into some of the ideas that I have come up with. I have received many suggestions from many individuals, and am certainly open to more.

I plan to keep, in the long-term (after the tank is very well established), acropora and other stony corals, clownfish, anemones, tangs, perhaps a goby of some type, and perhaps also a small school of chromids. I also have no doubt that I will add a variety of other corals to the aquarium at some point in time.

I will either be using a 120 gal or 90 gal tank, with an in-tank overflow. It will contain live rock and an approx. 4" deep sand bed. An approx. 50 gal Rubbermaid-style sump will house a skimmer (brand and model not yet decided), and heaters (2). I would also like to use the sump as a refugium, and therefore I plan to place two smaller Rubbermaid containers into the main sump. Water would exit the tank into the largest container, and then flow throw slats into the two smaller containers. One would serve as a refugium with a DSB and some LR, the other would contain the pump intake to send water back up into the display tank. The sump itself would be located in the base of the stand, which I plan to DIY, and would have doors to keep the sump hidden. As such, I plan to place a short NO or VHO fixture inside the base of the stand, to provide lighting for the sump (possibly on an inverse on/off schedule to the main tank, to regulate pH). How do you folks feel about this concept, and do you think it would be just as easy just to use a glass aquarium rather than Rubbermaid containers?

Lighting will be in a DIY hood, and at this point in time will be either dual 400w MH or dual 250w MH. I am still unsure as to whether or not I plan to use supplementary actinic lighting, although I am leaning in that direction. I plan to check out ballasts and reflectors at local hydroponics shops, to keep costs down, how do you folks feel about this? I plan to use 6.5k bulbs to start, I am unsure at this point in time what brand I would prefer to use. If I buy a DIY kit rather than supplies from a hydroponics shops, I would probably go with a PFO 48" 400w dual 6.5k, dual NO setup, which is about $860 from JL Aquatics, before GST and shipping. I would also use a number of small fans for cooling (computer case style?).

I am interested to hear your opinions on all this. :?

[Canadian Man]

Well Teevee I will take first Stab at this one.
All your typing sounds good except these few things

1. I would go with the 120g. Nice size and good Depth. 48x24x24

2. You forgot the reactor in the list of equip. With a full sps tank you will dose alot of Balace addative to keep it up.... your levels that is :wink:

3.Reverse lighting is good. My reverse lit refugium (by a 175w bulb) works well and only lets my ph drop 0.6 to 0.1 points at night.

4.Glass is good cause with the rubbermaid you will have BowInG.
The rubermaids are nice and inexpensive though.


Now as far as lights go that's a personal choice /hard area to comment on.
I bet what every you choose there will be some changes made within the first year anyway so don't sweat it too much.

[Delphinus]

I'll add a few more thoughts. Nothing too spectacular though.

Rubbermaid sumps are fine. They will bow, however. What some people do is build an external frame and this seems to work well. The only thing is after all that effort I'm not sure you really are ahead seeing as a 20g tank is usually $20-30, a 40g tank usually $30-50, and so on, and cheap tanks tend to work rather well as sumps. (Right, Jonathan? ;) )

I plan to keep, in the long-term (after the tank is very well established), acropora and other stony corals, [...] , anemones,...

This part .... um .... this part, uh, it does not sit all that well with me. Where to begin. First of all, typically anemones and stoney corals are not all that compatible in a tank. Usually how it goes is, anemones sting, and stoney corals get stung. Soon, no more stoney corals. To start having a mixed biotope like that, you need to do very careful planning, very careful placement, and very careful species choices. One of the smaller anemones can work, but as soon as you start getting into things like carpets, sebaes, ritteris, LTA's .... if well-cared for, these animals get BIG, and require a setup which has been built with only their needs in mind. Actually even BTA's can get big. Not unheard of to see a 16" BTA.

Second, conditions that anemones like, are not the same as conditions that stoneys like. Obviously there is some overlap. The one thing that I think stoneys can handle better than anemones, are slight pH fluctuations. Going from a pH cycle from 8.4 day/8.2 night to something like 8.3 day/8.1 night, you won't even notice this in your stoneys (I didn't, anyways) but it is a serious kick in the stomach for an anemone. Conversely, anemones can weather an accumulation of nitrates whereas stoneys can not. Anemones can live through 80ppm NO3 and look like it's nobody's business .... try putting a stoney into water with 80ppm NO3 though, and all you'll have is stone. Anemones also need a lot of food, and this can load a system.

Lastly (I'm sorry to babble on like this), you said "anemones" not "anemone". Multiple anemones ...... ohh. This one hits so close to home for me. So many people do it, and since their anemones are fine, they'll be quick to tell you that there's nothing wrong with it. The problem is .... it's like sitting on an undetonated WWII ordnance. Sure ... it hasn't blown up in the last 60 years, that's not to say it won't blow up tomorrow. Anemones can engage in a form of chemical warefare sometimes referred to "diffuse competition." Basically, things like shed nematocysts, and perhaps other chemical emissions, can wreak havoc on other animals.

If you've read this far. My apologies for going on and on and on. (Wow, there's an hour of typing I won't get back.. :roll: ) My intent is not to sway you off any idea, but just to say this can be a delicate balancing act that is hard to get right. Lots of people say "I want a reef tank with blah blah blah, oh, and an anemone." It's always an afterthought. Anemones are the ones to suffer as a result, barely 1 in 5, or 1 in 10, (I do not know the exact statistic) tend to live beyond a year in captivity. Which is a travesty, because they're literally immortal in the wild, and plus it's completely possible to do well with anemones when you have the requisite planning and care. Anemones are fabulous creatures, but they're fussy and require a lot of planning. If it's not done right, then it's a recipe for disaster.

Oh more thing (how many points have I made since I said "lastly" ? Sheesh, what a moron). Don't put an anemone into a tank less than 6 months old. They're way senstive to parameter swings of any kind, and like fine wine, reef aquariums need to age a little before they completely settle down and not suffer sudden unforeseen parameter swings.



[...]

With all that said, it does sound like you are well on your way to an awesome system, and I can't wait to see the fruits of your labour down the road. Good luck, and have fun!

8)

[Quinn]

oops yeah let me revise that to "anemone". i know that having more than one throws in some wrenches. i'll give you a brief history of how i arrived at keeping an anemone. originally i was planning a nano-reef, anemone and clownfish only (20 gal i was thinking). i soon learnt that both nano and anemone were bad choices for a beginner, and dropped both ideas. as such, i never really did any research on anemones (in fact, i haven't researched any livestock to any extent). however i know deb has some type of anemone that has a rather mild sting (unless i misunderstood), and it is right against (what i recall to have been) a mushroom. so essentially by saying anemone, i meant the least aggressive type. obviously before i ever even start thinking about getting one, i would do extensive research into them. if i have to choose between anemone and stonies, i would choose stonies and eventually an anemone species tank.

otherwise i appreciate all your comments. regarding the rubbermaids, i plan to use in fact four, two large ones the same size together, to increase strength, as well as build a wooden frame. however if i can find a cheap glass aquarium, i don't think i'd have a hard time putting together my own sump. we'll see how it goes. the first priority is to buy the display tank, because i can't build my stand until i have that, and i can't design my sump until i have the stand.

[Delphinus]

Can I make a suggestion regarding the stand.

I have two stands that require the removal of the aquarium above to get the sump in or not. Not that you move sumps in and out of stands very often, but, this is a bit of a pain. I wish I had considered this before I built my last stand.

There are two workarounds that I've seen, that I thought were absolutely brilliant. One, is, if you make your stand one all-enclosed unit, make your front cross beam a 2x6 or 2- 2x6's together. Super strong, and it won't need a centre brace (well, hopefully, anyways). Then you can have your cabinet doors open all the way, and you can slide big large items (like sumps) in and out of your stand.

The other one was, the stand itself is just steel or lumber or whatever, and the outside is a removable facade. You can make the stand itself to be completely industrial and strong and all that, and the facade can look nice and all of that. Jamie Cross has a stand like this (look for one of his posts then click on his website and you should be able to see what I mean).

PS. I don't think anything kills mushrooms. yeah, please don't get me wrong I would never steer anyone away from anemones (they're MY favourite reef critter). I just mean, proceed with eyes open. A dedicated species tank for an anemone is the best way to go (just my opinion, of course. ;) ).

cheers

[EmilyB]

however i know deb has some type of anemone that has a rather mild sting (unless i misunderstood), and it is right against (what i recall to have been) a mushroom.

That was the LTA (m. doreensis) Quinn. It is splayed against a cabbage leather coral. However, I've had other corals by it and they were unharmed as well (unlike the sebae and the bubbletip which are nasty IME)

Many other reefers are very happy with their LTA's and you can probably search that info on reefs.org. I've had mine four years and it is most definitely my favorite. Anemones do actually like higher nutrient levels however, and may not mix well with most SPS for that reason. I don't really know or care, as I'm not interested in putting fuzzy sticks in my MULTIPLE anemone tank.... :P :lol:

[Delphinus]

Fuzzy but COLOURFUL sticks... :P

[Bob I]

It is interesting just how large a following those fuzzy sticks have. :shock: :?