Nice lights!!

[Aquattro]

http://www.giesemann.de/GB_MeerLeuchten.html

[StirCrazy]

hmm looks like there selling a couple copys of the AB space lights.

Steve

[MitchM]

The Aqualine Aquaspacelight is hard to get parts for, (I had to replace an autocontroller this year) and I've heard that Giesemann are worse.

...but the DE bulb setup is definitely worth the price, IMO.

Mitch

[Aquattro]

I heard the System 260 is approaching $3500!!!! :shock:

[MitchM]

The Aqualine that I have now is $2500.00 locally.
I'm not going to buy another light set up until one is able to dim the MH or equivalent. Dimming the moonlight is great, but I think it's more important to dim the main lights.

Mitch :)

[Aquattro]

I just figure that all my hardware combined is probably less than that system 260....and really, it's just a light!! I guess it's cool for rich people!! :P

[MitchM]

I'm not rich no more....... :P

Mitch :wink:

[Aquattro]

I'm not rich no more....... :P


I hear ya!!

[StirCrazy]

I still think this is the holy mecca of lighting :shock: :lol:

http://members.shaw.ca/islandaquatics/lotlights.jpg

Steve

[Aquattro]

I think that's a dog's breakfast...

[StirCrazy]

bah, your just mad cuz you would never be able to run enuf breakers for that LOL

Steve

[EmilyB]

Why am I reminded of "Puppets that Kill" :lol: .

[Aquattro]

sumthin' like that, anyways....

[stephane]

I have seen them on a tank and I found they look about the same as a iwasaki sytem with 3-4 VHO actinic IMO they realy dont worht it

the one I have seen have was operating on 220 50HZ so they come with an inverter to made 220 with 110 :shock: if my memory is good each transformer loose 20-30% electricity in heat so one transformer for the current an ballast for the bulb :x

[MitchM]

Stephane, you lost me there...Are you referring to Steve's disco lights, or the Aqualine and Giesmann?

If you're referring to the DE setups, I would think that even with the extra heat generated, the less frequent bulb replacement and the lower wattage consumed (compared to the setup you mentioned) that the DE setups are the better choice in the long run.

Mitch

[stephane]

Im talking about the giesman and they are IMO a total waste of money
but if one have to much money and want to trow it they are the #1 choice

you could have a complete wood canopy and beter lightning system and you will have some money left to buy a becket skimer

the canopy will completly close every ting under and over the tank and you would not see salt creep or any hose + it cut the light between the lamp and the tank and give beter view in the tank

here is a pic of wath I meen compare this to a tank with ugly chain and a
blue fixture with a metal rack under I dont see any advantage
http://zapzap.zwf.net/albums/Album-de-stephane/acp.sized.jpg

[stephane]

Ho! About the Steve Disco light! Steve why not show the tank under those disco light I remeber seen that picture 8-9 month ago and it was one of the most beautiful tank I ever see in my life

I tink it was a japanese tank if my memory is right

[StirCrazy]

yup, you are right Steph.. hmm maby I will try find the tank pic again. . it was pretty wild

Steve

[benelux]

Hello everyone. The time as come to get out of our cavern. I work with Giesemann for the past two years now and i feel ready to answer your questions regarding our lighting system.

Yep, they are beautiful and, from my humble opinion, (or because i work with Giesemann :wink: ) those fixture are the best you can have on the market in term of esthetic, quality and performance. Remember that all individual is unique and the decision to buy one of our product relies on many different factor (Price defenitvely one of them)

When posting an opinion upon a product one individual need to be well inform to give accurate advise. This will be for the most important: giving you accurate information.

As for technical data regarding the 220v transformer, the heat generation, the ballast, open and covered hood and the total waste of money for a better lighting system i will provide you with technical justification. Everything as a purpose it's always in the way we see it!

Till later!

[Delphinus]

Just to jump in with a completely useless observation ..... have you noticed that this "disco light" setup is often referred to as the "Japanese look" (or something like that) ..... and when you look at that kind of setup you think "DANG now there is a person who does not pay enough for electricity" ... and then you think "Oh, right, Kyoto is for real now, so electricity is for sure going to beocme more expensive as time goes on" and then you think "Hey wait a minute, isn't Kyoto in Japan?" Now WHAT the heck is up with that??????? :shock:


(PS. I am just kidding. We do need to do more to protect our environment. It's just that .... with 4 or 5 tanks, dang I don't even know how many it is anymore .... I am rather sensitive to that ol' utility bill creeping up and up and up!!!!)

[benelux]

As Titus told me, i would be better to do what i said i'll do! :)

Many differences have to be noticed when you talk about an europeen based technology fixture and a north american one. First, i would like to answer Stephane comments regarding chain setup wish i figure was one in a store display. Giesemann fixture are pendant light. It's design for open aquarium and hold with a steel wires attached with stainless screw cover and a patented height adjustement device. Chain are for the retailer an easier way to dismantele the fixture for re-sell.

Each Giesemann fixture as a Tridonic autotransformer to generate a 220v 60hz (500va standard and 820va for high wattage fixtures) output necessary to the operation of the ballast and the digital ignitor. Finaly, a capacitor will protect intergrity of the system in allowing slight change in power from the main source. MH bulbs showed more efficient when used at higher operative voltage. In North America, Steve correct me if i am wrong :wink: , MH bulbs have an internal ignitor regulating the frequency at wich the energy arc will be created, Some europeen bulbs have no internal ignitor wich grant them with a longer life span and, as a great plus, a more stable intensity and spectrum over the life of the bulb. In some case, Europeen MH bulbs can be fully operative (according to bulbs manufacturers) up to 6000hrs :o (both in screwed or DE models) On the market their price is very competitive and, on the long run, can save somes of aquarist money in two differents ways. If the MH illumination is adequate for a given system, stability of the bulbs charateristic in intensity and spectrum can provide corals with a better living environnement and the replacement cost of the bulbs can be amortized over a longer period. Ask yourself, did you ever buyed a inkjet printer thinking you would save money? I did only to realize that it was costing me 2 times the initial cost of my printer in ink cartdrige :shock:

Gisemann fixture features all of the above and more. Complete extruded aluminium body (end plate as well?!!?) High finish Powder coated colours (like a car) Computerized calculated reflector to fully manage DE bulbs output (the geometry of DE bulbs is easier to predict than mogul bulbs which give them an advantage as to design the perfect reflector) Giesemann reflector, on high-end model, features a complete polished aluminium reflector (99.9%) and integrated microprocessor for managing sunrise, sunset, cloud simulation and a moonlight simulation over a 28 days cycle :shock:

Giesemann fixture have a one year warranty parts and labor and will be drived by new Electronic ballast technology end of january! Sorry, i am becoming too commercial oriented. I will wait the OK before getting in the highlights of the new Electronic ballast.

Again, everybody has is own needs and preferences and no one should take a decision based on promotion and marketing but more on the results seen. BTW Stephane, the cover hood of your pic is beautiful but i like the modern still of open aquarium

[stephane]

I was not to respond to this anymore but since my name came back I will

First treated people of cavern man that dont know waht they talk about is not a good way to find customer this is a public board and compagny should not atack individual for a review of there product they dont apreciate! As buisnessman you should know not every body have to love and buy your product. If you want to sale your product show use it is beter than other product and tell use why but dont tell people they dont know what they talk about :wink: Im not at my first lighning setup over my ten years reefing and I have see a lot of those new technical up to date product doing noting more than well on paper

I have talk about lost in energy from the converter and I have not see anywere the wattage or amp draw from your fixture beter tell use data than talk about ignitor and the type of inverter you take I will repeat from my small knowlege A 250 watt bulb with is ballast draw average of 290watt if you plug that 290 watt over an inverter who lost 30% you will draw 377 wat for that 250 watt bulb :shock: Did Im rong? :idea:

other ting life span! you said they have long life span but I have never see any test or data from lost in PAR over time to proove this. manufacturer life span of bulb ar useless in our case as most MH 5-10k have life span from 5000 - 10000 but no one here use them that long cause life span dont meem lost of PAR so IMO if a compagnie claim there bulb last longer they should show us some data and dont wait for sanjay joshy to do it for free!

All europen people change there bulb 9-12 month no mater wath kind of buld they take and they have all german or europen DD bulb. I know it cause I read french europen board everyday day + doudle ended bulb are household use and mogul are industrial use cause double ended easy to break and hard to change even have see a lot of peolple complain in europe about the bulb been broken when they try to change. another ting Double ended and a mogul from the same compagny and k alway show the same PAR lumen from most manufacturer lamp catalogue + the mogul are alway more $ in europe than the double ended because they are a cheaper product and cost less


now for the look part

again I realy dont like to see an open top. you see all the hose fan,power head,salt creep,inside overflow,wave unit,wire...... The fixture look good but the tank setup look cheap and not finish like a well made canopy

other ting no way to add any actnic bulb and you are stuck with the power compact actinic in the midle you can't change the type of bulb or change the wattage so if you start with 150 and want to upgrade you have to buy another fixture :?

the bulb color look good but I prefer a way more my radium color over them the only draw back of the radium is that they are 400 watt so not realy power efficient but the color greatly worth it and they are cheap to buy + no need for actinic

The only advantage I see for those fixture are there powder coating and round edge that I have to admit are well built and good craftmanship, moonlight built in is very well also and electronic ballast whan available will be very good if they dont made the fixture to climb in price. yes they worth the money they are cause they are well tegnicaly design and not look like a chepo DIY stuff but I like more to have it over my diner room table than my tank

this is my personal taste and review of those fixture from my multiple
own setup over my 10 years reefing and it is my opinion after seen them in person but I have not done any technical test and the power consumption number I get are from waht I tink is ok but I could be rong

[Samw]

I was not to respond to this anymore but since my name came back I will

First treated people of cavern man that dont know waht they talk about is not a good way to find customer this is a public board and compagny should not atack individual for a review of there product they dont apreciate! As buisnessman you should know not every body have to love and buy your product. If you want to sale your product show use it is beter than other product and tell use why but dont tell people they dont know what they talk about :wink: Im not at my first lighning setup over my ten years reefing and I have see a lot of those new technical up to date product doing noting more than well on paper



Hi Stephane. I think you misunderstood his post. He did not call you a cavern man. He said that it is time for him (benelux) to get out of his cave and answer your questions. He is not attacking your review of the product. Just wanted to help clear that up.

[MitchM]

benelux,

Are there any significant differences between the Giesmann and Aqualine Spacelight fixtures?

(the customer asks of the Giesmann rep... :wink: )

Mitch

[benelux]

Sorry Stephane if i made myself misunderstood but i was talking about giesemann going out of is cave not you and in fact without the opinion and the experience of the reefer's community from all arounf the planet the industry would had gone no where or not that fast. It's because of people working hard on their tanks and testing many differents options that made it easier to company to pinpoint interessting product on the market (and to do well aimed marketing program.

Your opinion is as good as mine (as well as any other opinion) and i respect that a lot. Would be a suicide for me to go out on this page to insult customers. We have a lot of data regarding bulb life span and wattage but nothing, till now, adapted to the Noth American market. Precision and accuracy is important for us and we work hard now to get those numbers clearly. [/quote]

[stephane]

Sorry I m a nut's french I apologize

[benelux]

Yes Mitch, there's differences between the two fixtures that can explain the prices differences. People idea on that topic is somehow strong that one system is the copy of the other one but we think it's like puting an apple next to a tomato!

Main difference should be the so called efficiency of the bulbs but as i dont have solid evidence i would have to let Giesemann owners express themselves over that subject. One thing is for sure we seem to be less expensive in particular market when it comes to replacement. As i want to play fair, a test demonstarted that AB DE bulbs have a better PAR than BLV DE bulbs (used by Giesemann) but the question we ask is "for how long?"

If we look at the body of both fixtures, Giesemann features a full extruded aluminium body while AB have an less thicker aluminium main frame finished by two end plate in galvanized steal. This production technique saves money for the manufacturer.

The AB powder coated finish is not a high glossy finish as for the Giesemann fixture. Putting two fixtures next to the other gives you a direct answer when it comes to finition.

Giesemann have some models with an integrated microprocessor and total polished aluminium refelctor (reflection factor 99.9%) which can drive their prices higher but can be valuable for some reefer's.

Giesemann have the 230plus model with both MH and PC illumination. The new aquaspacelight future also have theses characteristics.

One thing both company had to deal with in the past years was poor after-sale services. Parts and services are long to obtain and one of the primary objective of Xenia (Giesemann distributor for North America) is to give the necessary information to the retailer and the customer in a more classic and efficient way (we wont turn back any e-mail requesting information) and provide parts and services in quicker delays.

As you can see, we like to communicate and educate people on lighting requirement but we also have to bring evidence to the reefer's community about this topic to be credible. Some of you guys know a lot more than me the hoby itself and i feel like i have more to learn from you that you may learn from me. This can look like i am actualy licking the part of yout body were the back loose is name :D but i am not affraid to say that you and the retailer are the one that can help us the most in making of this hobby a more accesible and enjoyable passion.

[MitchM]

My Spacelight is an extruded aluminum body. How are the ends of the Giesmann capped?
http://www.picturelist.com/auctions/showimagez.asp?user=carpentersreef&pic=spacelight.jpg

Mitch

[StirCrazy]

Giesemann have some models with an integrated microprocessor and total polished aluminium refelctor (reflection factor 99.9%) which can drive their prices higher but can be valuable for some reefer's.


Not to be pickey Benelux, but whare have you found a reflector material with a 99.9% reflectance value? the highest you can buy comercialy is 97.5% and that is very expensive.. the normal one that is afordable for most lighting companies is ~95%.

do you have a link that some one can follow and read up some more on your lights?

Steve

[benelux]

Giesemann End cap are in aluminium Mitch as all of is body. Main frame of your spacelight is extruded aluminium also but in a lesser gage (less thick) but it's still a nice fixture and probably doing what it's suppose to do for you Mitch?

For the reflectance factor steve, i am positive over 99,9% value on the complete reflector of model 260moonlight. The result is a mirror looking like reflector and yes it's expensive to produce. I gave a link to kris on a previous message on this thread but i wont do it again as i've been warned by Titus not to be too commercial oriented :oops:

We sended catalog to a Victoria BC potential customer last week and i noticed that this person was with us on this discussion panel. Maybe we will hear from that person soon. I am working hard to get evidence and i am confident to get accurate information soon enough Steve. (I would like to post some pics but i think i have to do it on another section of this pannel?!)

[Bob I]

i am positive over 99,9% value on the complete reflector of model 260moonlight. The result is a mirror looking like reflector and yes it's expensive to produce.

As ever the sceptic in me says that can't be done. My opinion only that can easily be proven wrong. :D

[stephane]

I was under the impression that giesmen was using AB bulb and those Aqualine are manufacture by I dont know who

but BLV light bulb made by BLV Licht-und Vakuumtechnik GmbH it is a germany corp. wholly owned of the Japanese group USHIO Inc., Tokyo.

BLV product are sold in US and Canada under the name of ushio

A lot of people in Europe that I know use those BLV 10k cause they are able to get them cheap direct from the compagny and they are a real bargin. There life span on the other hand from those people are report to be not more than twelve month and even a lot report to change them 7-8
month cause they came realy yellow

For those who speak french or have a traduction software here is a
tread were they talk about life span of BLV

http://www.reef-guardian.com/modules.php?name=XForum&file=viewthread&tid=2859#pid17733


here is a spectral analisis of the 10k BLV from 70 to 1000 watt in mogul or DD

http://www.blv.co.uk/spectrum_10k.gif

[benelux]

Again, it's difficult to conclude if a bulb is good or not if the comparaison is based under variable burning condition. As an image, you can fill your Honda Civic with super and still be unable to reach the performance of a Civic Si filled with regular engine being different.

Ballast as a lot to do with how a bulb (Of any manufacturers) will react when burned to their full intensity. A lighting fixtures is a complete unit and the material contained in it as a lot to do with the researched final results. Not to mention, the quality of the assembly that can play a role as well. The reflector play role (not in the spectrum indeed) and the UV filtering glass also.

Refering to the thread you posted now. I dont know about Arcadia fixture and with what ballast their are driven. Question is: would you change your bulbs each and every 6 month to have a perfect aesthetic result on your tank if it would cost you 40 box? Again, depend on your need and objective. In that same thread, someone even saying he's using 5200k (daylight) to obtain a coral growth explosion!!! everyone have an opinion and the prefect setup can be variable.

[Acro]

I've been kind of reading this thread and well one can argue astetics for ever. So really a waste of time.

Of coarse housing, bulb and ballast design play a role in the amount and intensity of light reaching the desired area. What we as consumers need are numbers. Seeing we have a rep in the thread why don't we get those and while that is happening let the hobbiest debate opinions.