All the fish are dead or pretty much dead:(

[findingnemo1]

HI all.

We'll i don't know what is going on but my god i have pretty much lost them all.
In 2 days i have lost 2 anthias,1 potters angel,1 royal gramma, and on there way out are 1 regal angel( which i will do pretty much anything to make live)
1 flagfin and a sixline. I bought a coral about 3 weeks ago that i am assuming had ick on it as my tank exploded with ick. No new fish in about 5 months and they were all quarintined before being put in the main tank. So in one night i lost the 2 anthias and royal gramma. Now this morning i watched helplessly as the potters went. So upon inspection i see everyone breathing a mile a minute so check the water params and all is fine. But i do a 10 gallon water change anyways. Add an extra airstone and still nothing. I have tried the hypo with no avail and the copper and this ick from downunder will not go away. It isn't brook as they are not that classic white slimmy looking. Just ick spots everywhere. I have tried to paraguard them to relieve them abit but that isn't working either.

I have no idea what to do. Helpless that you can't help them.

Suggestions

[michika]

I'm really sorry to hear that.

Do you think something got into your system, a cleaning product, etc?

I think your doing everything right, maybe try running some carbon to try and catch whatever is in the system.

[findingnemo1]

I dunno what it is. I tried the carbon and then thought which do i do.If i run the carbon than that takes out the meds and if i don't maybe it isn't catching what may be in there.Although no cleaning products or anything has been near it but who knows...

I don't get it. I am starting to think that maybe i should put the regal back in the main tank and feed him lots with some good food and vitamins and run my uv sterilizer and maybe he can kick it. It only seems to be the angels that are breathing super hard. So i don't know what to do.

[tang daddy]

did you say copper? isn't it a reef? if you pull the fish out to copper them it usually takes 4 days I know believe me you have to let them go for a week in quarintine in a reef it's much more difficult but I've only experienced the problem in my fowler with the reef garlic plus but with the fowler I recomend ionized copper that kills the ich in 3 days I leave it in for up to 2 weeks just to make sure, reason why the fish are breathing so hard is because the ich gets into the fishes gills and in 4-5 days can suffocate the fish. The ionized copper works wonders the recent strain of ich is terrible and very hardy however if you don't have any corals or can catch the fish put them in quarantine use full recomended dose 1st day half 2nd and 1/3 the 3rd day let it sit to make sure also it will not completly kill the lr mine grew back coraline after 1 month try a uv sterilizer aswell hope this was helpfull and sorry to hear about your fish I know how it feels to lose all your stock in 1 week.

[Redrover]

Dam-Dam if it doesn't rain it pours...if you have a quarintine tank, I would give them a freshwater dip then into the quarintine tank, then do the copper bit. :twised:
I would also raise your main tank temp to 82...run at this temp for a week. I have had great results, learned this from a fellow reefer of over 20 years reefing

[Redrover]

I have herd that giving corals a freshwater dip...try the internet for info on your problem...hope all turns out.:Fade-col:

[Captainhemo]

If you can get the fish out and into quantine, try and do it in a barebottom tank with some pieces of pvc piipe. Do a good water change every nitght, clean the pepes, and clean the tank bottom.
Keep all fish out of the main infected tank for at least a month, even 5 or 6 weeks to be sure, the icks life/reproduction cycle will last up to a month. Don't give the ick a host , break its life cycle.
There is quite a few good papers out there with lots of good info (google). I had a great link but am having trouble finding it. Will post if I can locate it.

[findingnemo1]

Thanks everyone. They are in a hospital tank but apparently what i am doing is not working as they keep dying anyways. I have thrown the u.v on the main display to try and help kill any that are in there. And the fish we'll i guess all i can do is sit and watch them dye. I have put the copper in but it doesn't appear to be helping. I checked the copper levels and they are sitting at optimum treatment levels so it should be working. I wonder if they are all just to far gone???

The regal is the only one that looks okay. I may move her back into the main display and hope that she makes it. Maybe the hiding spots will be less sressful for her and maybe she will fight it.

I don't know:(
I am at a loss.:(

[Captainhemo]

This is an exellent article; Anyone trying to battle ich should take the time to read and digest the following:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php

Great info
HTH :)

[fishytime]

Um .... I thought ick was allways present in the tank? Its when a fish becomes stressed or weak that the parasite can take hold. Am I wrong?

[SJSobczyk]

It sounds strange but the best thing i have done is let the fish battle the ick out. I have never removed a fish or treated it for ick, rather hoping it wins the battle itself. To this point in my fish keeping i have not lost one. I think the benefit is that you do not put more stress on a fish that is already stressed.

Just my opinion

Steve

[marie]

Um .... I thought ick was allways present in the tank? Its when a fish becomes stressed or weak that the parasite can take hold. Am I wrong?

It is possible to have an ich free tank, it just takes a bit of extra work on the hobbiests part to keep it that way

[Der_Iron_Chef]

I know this is controversial and not proven by any stretch, but have you tried soaking the food in garlic?

[findingnemo1]

I have:)

They are always feed garlic and selcon soaked foods.

So the update. I have now lost my 6 line and skunk clown. So i am left with the flagfin, regal angel, and the cleaner wrasse. I dumped all the water in the hospital tank. Put in new stuff and tried seachems paraguard. We'll low and behold the breathing slowed down and they are eating dinner. soooo i don't know what it is or what it was but i am crossing fingers as to maybe i will beat this.
Although the rest i will truly miss as they all had great personality this regal angel is one i do not want to lose. Not your typical regal and has ate from day one. Eats everything and anything. And after losing one regal to not eating i think that losing her will throw me over the edge...

So thank-you for all the support and suggestions and hopefully this will be it:)


And to note this is one mean strain of ick. I have fought ick and brooke before but nothing compares to this. I have read that there were mean cases of it going around but my god.My total lose ended up being 6 in 3 days. And what is odd is when the 2 anthias went they went at pretty much the same time. They both ate dinner and 30 min later both were together in the back side by side dead.They were a couple for 18 months as they were 2 of my first fish in my 130.:(

Sorry for going on its funny how attached to your fish you become.

It is a sad day at our house:(

Thanks again everyone.

[fishoholic]

I'm so sorry for your losses, I really hope your other fish make it.

[Edmonton Eskimo]

that sounds more like velvet than ick. Looks the same but velvet kills much quicker. I lost a few fish to a velvet outbreak when I thought it was ick. Treatments must be applied quickly and I think copper is the only successful treatment as hypo doesn't work very good on velvet. Just a thought

[tang daddy]

There is a strong strain of ich the thing is you have to catch it before it has a chance to get really bad the first time was a few months back wiped out the whole tank but if you start the treatments sooner the results are much better. Angels are tough and have a huge appetite I have faith that your regal will survive keep it in the copper for a week and a bit after that do little water changes on the tank and wait for the ich to settle in your main display all you can do is garlic extreme in your main tank also turn up the heat.

[blaster]

I found recently that adding vitaminc to the garlic selcon soaked food helped.My purple tang was covered in white spots more than i've ever seen.With that increasing the ttank temp speeds up the icks lifecycle.The key is to feed the fish as much as possibly.3-4 times a day

[findingnemo1]

Okay we'll here is the latest update.

I have no idea what this is. I am down to my flagfin and regal and i am pretty sure the regal Angel will die today. When in the quarintine tank yesterday hey started freakin out but he was the only one. So in a moment of desperation my wife pulled him out and reacclimitated him to the main tank and put him back in. Thinking that at least if he dies it would be at home...lol

So he didn't look to bad but when we look at him today you can see his lateral line almost coming through his skin on both sides?
What is up with that? He is still eating and was eating like a pig untill yesterday so it is not like he is starving to death. I just don't get what is going on.

I am thinking a bad case of brooke? Or some funky bacteria or disease wiping a whole tank out.

The flagfin the one i thought was going to make it is now losing his colour again so i give him a day max as that what seems to happen to all the rest. All good and then one day within a couple hours they are dead.

The only one that is showing no signs of anything and never has is the cleaner wrasse. Still going strong and never skipped a beat through all of this.

So in the end i think i will lose the entire tank:(

[Der_Iron_Chef]

:( :( So sorry....uggh.

[Salmon King]

It could be velvet.If it is once it gets in the gills its to late.The only other thing that makes a fish breath hard is amonia witch burns the gills.Garlic is a wise tale.Ask any marine bioligist

[findingnemo1]

Alright. We lost the regal:(
But here is the interesting part. With a little help from Alberta and the gang from Golds we might have figured it out. When we pulled the regal out he pretty much looked like he was bleeding from the inside out. Lateral line was literally through the skin on both sides and he had sores on him where the blood spots where.

So after Albert coming to the rescue this is what he came up with.
Vibrio
Sounds like pretty much what happened. Didn't matter how we treated them they all died anyways. Apparently we brought it in with some new frozen food that can get infected after packaging. As the water was and is perfect although the mag and alk are a little low.

Scarey thing is we can catch it and we have had our hands in the tank:twised:
So the plan is let the U.V run on the tank and leave it fishless for a long long time. I don't think i can watch helplessly as more fish die.

I do still have the flagfin but he is not looking so swift hot this morning so we will see.

Thanks to everyone for the support though it was nice to come and vent somwehere where people understand how attached we get to out little water friends:razz:

[fencer]

Might be better to teardown tank and wash it with bleach. BTW what was the cause...link did not work

[findingnemo1]

Ahhh of course it wouldn't work...lol

It was Vibrio:
I am hoping that after some solid research it will tell me exactly how to deal with this.

Hopefully i don't have to tear it all apart as i can't stand to lose anymore out of that tank. And due to the fact that of what it is i can't ship them out to be babysat

I guess i am just hoping for the best at this point.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

"In confined, heavily stocked, commercial systems, Vibrio disease outbreaks can proceed rapidly. Therefore, prevention is essential to any management scheme. As Vibrio species are believed to be opportunistic, conditions which favor a disease outbreak are often caused by environmental stress which can be avoided. Poor nutrition or water quality, improper handling, overcrowding, and the presence of other disease-causing agents will all increase your fish's chances of contracting a Vibrio infection. Parasites are of special concern, as they often cause damage to fish tissue, creating an ideal location for Vibrio infections to begin. Chemical treatments, including the use of copper compounds, can be harsh on fish and have been reported to precipitate Vibrio disease outbreaks.

Quarantine of new fish and good sanitation practices should be used at all times, and will minimize the spread of Vibrio infection from infected to uninfected fish, should a disease outbreak occur. New fish should always be kept away from existing fish. Tanks and culture facilities should be kept clean and free of any unnecessary wastes.

Treatment
Before any treatment with antibiotics, a thorough investigation of water quality and husbandry practices should be conducted. Removal of underlying problems is essential to successful resolution of the problem. Occasionally, removal of contributing factors (i.e., poor water quality) will be all that is required to control the infection, but in most cases it is prudent to treat an active Vibrio outbreak with antibiotic therapy." (taken from http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA036)

[Aquattro]

And just in case it is vibrio, make sure you don't have any open cuts on your hands before touching the water, and wash well with anti-bacterial soap afterwards. I ended up having to treat myself with antibiotics a couple of years ago!

[findingnemo1]

The Crappy part is we didn't figure out what is was untill it was to late. And i kept feeding the food the whole time...:twised:

It wasn't a water quality issue as the water params were all good except the mag was low and so was the alk. But nothing that would start a nasty infection. Had to be the food as that was the only thing that was new.

And yes the gloves would have been great to know before as i kept putting my hands in there and the quarintine tank. Hope i don't get sick...That would just be the topping on the cake...lol

[hawk]

So the frozen food was contaminated when you bought it or somehow became contaminated once it was opened?

[whosinpower]

Thank you for sharing with us your problem. I am terribly sorry for your losses.
And I hope you don't end up getting ill as well!

As a newbie in this hobby, I greatly appreciate your willingness to share what must be terribly difficult to deal with. I would of never imagined that the food could possibly contaminate a closed system with disease. One more thing to be wary of!!!!!!

I know overfeeding leads to water quality issues which could stress our animals that would precipitate a disease outbreak - but it never occured to me that the food itself would be a carrier. Wow.

Thanks again Findingnemo1. And sorry for you troubles.