SPS and flow...need help.

[Mik_101]

Will my acropora get better color under more flow? Right now I have about 395 gph in 46 gallon tank. I am installing a Tunze nano stream 6055 shotly witch will knok up my flow to 1055 gph nd after that a Koralia 3or4. With the 3 my flow will be around 1905gph and with the 4 it will be 2255 gph.
Witch Koralia would you guy suggest for my tank? and will the flow help my sps corals get their color.
For lighting I have 2x 175 watt MH and 2x 40 watt actinics.
My water params. are
SG-1.024
Ammoni-0.25
No3-0
No2-0
temp-80
Mg-1026(I think I got my water tsted for Mg and Dkh at OA(ocean aquatins))
Dkh-10.6
pH.8.8(bit to high. How can I lower it to aroun 8.2 or so?)
Cal.-425

[sphelps]

SPS color is effected by so many things, mostly lighting, water quality, and flow. While increasing flow may be good thing more importantly is an alternating flow pattern which will promote proper growth and result in better color, but other than that I wouldn't expect any crazy results from increasing your flow. The most important factor in color that I have found is Stability of proper water parameters which include very low nutrients, constant Cal + Alk, constant temp and salinity and so on. A calcium reactor can be a huge advantage, it will keep the cal+alk constant and keeps the growth rate high, I find the higher the growth rate the better the color, especially the growth tips.

[Skimmerking]

what kills SPS is nitrates and phoshates, and little flow along with low alk and cal levels

[Mik_101]

SPS color is effected by so many things, mostly lighting, water quality, and flow. While increasing flow may be good thing more importantly is an alternating flow pattern which will promote proper growth and result in better color, but other than that I wouldn't expect any crazy results from increasing your flow. The most important factor in color that I have found is Stability of proper water parameters which include very low nutrients, constant Cal + Alk, constant temp and salinity and so on. A calcium reactor can be a huge advantage, it will keep the cal+alk constant and keeps the growth rate high, I find the higher the growth rate the better the color, especially the growth tips.

I don't think I'm ready to blow 200+ on cal reactor plus I'm only 14.

[sphelps]

But you can "blow" $200 on the nano stream?? Plus the other pump???

[sphelps]

But you can "blow" $200 on the nano stream?? Plus the other pump???

Also your levels are out a bit

Ammonia is too high, should read zero, but likely this is just your test kit
Mg is too low, should be around 1200-1300
Alk is too high should be closer to about 8dkh dropping this will likely lower your pH
Cal is pretty good, but could be higher 440 is what I like

[Aquattro]

175w will limit the color, as will nutrients. Higher alk would be my goal, I ran about 11+. Ca at anything above 380 is fine. Flow won't affect color really to any noticeable degree if everything else isn't right. Make sure you do routine water changes, and don't over feed.

[Skimmerking]

Also your levels are out a bit

Ammonia is too high, should read zero, but likely this is just your test kit
Mg is too low, should be around 1200-1300
Alk is too high should be closer to about 8dkh dropping this will likely lower your pH
Cal is pretty good, but could be higher 440 is what I like

I disagree his Alk is good for not having a Reactor , A reactor is kicking out around 10-11 DKH at a constant rate when dialed in along with that the Calcium running at 400

[Mik_101]

I disagree his Alk is good for not having a Reactor , A reactor is kicking out around 10-11 DKH at a constant rate when dialed in along with that the Calcium running at 400

I totally agree. My tank is too small for calcium reactor and I don't want calciums levels over 440.

[Mik_101]

Ok I fed my corals and he got quite a bit of color. Thanks for the help though.

[Mik_101]

But you can "blow" $200 on the nano stream?? Plus the other pump???

FYI im getting it for 42.

[Mik_101]

175w will limit the color, as will nutrients. Higher alk would be my goal, I ran about 11+. Ca at anything above 380 is fine. Flow won't affect color really to any noticeable degree if everything else isn't right. Make sure you do routine water changes, and don't over feed.

WOW WOW WOW your telling me 430w of light isent enough. If you missed it I have 2x 175 w MH and 2x 40 w actinics.

430w of light =9.3 watts per gallon.

[fkshiu]

FYI im getting it for 42.


$42 for a 6055??? Sounds is a little to good to be true.

And following your tank journal thread it's clear that your tank is far too new and unstable for SPS.

And yes, you won't get the most out of SPS with 175s. They'll stay alive and grow, but they probably won't have eyepopping colours. It has nothing to with WPG.

You don't need a Ca reactor for a 46 gallon tank. You'll get by fine dosing 2-part.

[Mik_101]

$42 for a 6055??? Sounds is a little to good to be true.

And following your tank journal thread it's clear that your tank is far too new and unstable for SPS.

And yes, you won't get the most out of SPS with 175s. They'll stay alive and grow, but they probably won't have eyepopping colours. It has nothing to with WPG.

You don't need a Ca reactor for a 46 gallon tank. You'll get by fine dosing 2-part.

Yes but 2x 250 watt MH is over lighting and I don't need to burn my corals. 1x 250 w mh wont work either because I have a stupid bar running down the middle of my tank and I would have a "eclipse" effect.

[Mik_101]

Well i know wher my money os going now.

check it out
http://oceanaquatics.com/store/product/2099/Galaxy-Dual-Ballast---250w/

[marie]

WOW WOW WOW your telling me 430w of light isent enough. If you missed it I have 2x 175 w MH and 2x 40 w actinics.

430w of light =9.3 watts per gallon.

If a coral is sitting 5" away from a 250w light in a 500g (0.5w/g) tank it won't be any happier under a 40w light in a 2g nano tank (20w/g)

[Mik_101]

If a coral is sitting 5" away from a 250w light in a 500g (0.5w/g) tank it won't be any happier under a 40w light in a 2g nano tank (20w/g)

I don't get it Marie.

[marie]

I don't get it Marie.

Ok then look at it this way, If you took a gallon jar put some rock and salt water in there and placed a little frag 5" from the surface of the water and then hung a 5 watt christmas light over it the frag would be getting 5watts per gallon of light.
Now if you took a 500gallon tank, with rock and saltwater, frag 5" from surface and hung a 250watt light over it, you have 1/2 watt per gallon
Which frag is getting the better light?

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Marie's post is missing a ?

She's saying that watts/gallon is not a very good way to know how much light is enough. SPS like high light, high flow, but stable, low-nutrient conditions, which is very hard to achieve in smaller tanks that are new. SPS should be kept in more established tanks after all the nutrient levels are stabilized. New tanks often have fluctuating nutrient levels which will brown out SPS & often lead to death.

[Mik_101]

The one in the jar? I think.

[marie]

but it's just a silly little 5 watt christmas light, it would hardly be bright enough to grow algae.
The correct answer would be the frag directly under the 250watt light, it doesn't matter how much water is surrounding it

[Mik_101]

but it's just a silly little 5 watt christmas light, it would hardly be bright enough to grow algae.
The correct answer would be the frag directly under the 250watt light, it doesn't matter how much water is surrounding it

Kind of suspected that too.

[EmilyB]

*edited*

[scsi]

When is this crap going to stop on here ?

now now.....
Let's keep it civil
I so want this board to not be like alot of the other boards I have to monitor.......

[Mik_101]

Ok thanks scsi.

[EmilyB]

*edited*

Again, please stick to the topic at hand. Verbal attacks on other members will not be tolerated.
Thanks

[Mik_101]

*edited*

Yup we sure do.

Yeah, and with 6 posts you sure have all the info---LMAO.

[scsi]

*edited*

unfair, but true.... an agreement

[Aquattro]

WOW WOW WOW your telling me 430w of light isent enough. If you missed it I have 2x 175 w MH and 2x 40 w actinics.

430w of light =9.3 watts per gallon.


Well, the actinics don't count towards PAR, and 175w don't have the intensity to bring out the best colors. I didn't say it wasn't enough light, I said it wasn't enough to bring out the best color. And forget all about watts/gallon, it doesn't mean anything.

[Mik_101]

Well, the actinics don't count towards PAR, and 175w don't have the intensity to bring out the best colors. I didn't say it wasn't enough light, I said it wasn't enough to bring out the best color. And forget all about watts/gallon, it doesn't mean anything.

Well can I get most of the color out of them?

[Mik_101]

Will a phosphate reactor help at all?

[Aquattro]

Well can I get most of the color out of them?

I found that when I first got into reefs using 2 x 175w over my 70g (18" deep) I could not get good color. Now, if everything else is perfect, they might be ok, but I've never seen a tank that was perfect (well, not many). The first thing you need to realize is that it can take 6 or more months just to build up stability in the tank so that SPS will grow, let alone color up properly.
When I switched to 2 x 400w, my colors got better, but it wasn't until I had a couple of years experience watching my acros turn brown before I could start getting nice colors. You need to make sure that nutrients are 0, pH, Ca and Alk are in range and stable. Flow is important for growth, not so much for color. If you put softies in the tank, it could impact the SPS growth and general happiness. The problem is there are so many things working against you, you really need to know your tank very well. This takes quite a while.

[michika]

I feel like I should say something about 175w MH lighting. I use 175w MH on my 24g cube. Yes my cube is 18" deep, but I do find I get good coloration throughout the different levels of my tank. Of course the higher the frag the more "intense" the coloration is. I feel I get good coloration from my lighting, but I attribute it to both a high bulb quality, and having chosen a spectrum that works with my existing lighting. Like Reef_raf said, 175w didn't work for him, but it worked for me, so its all about what works for you.

Mik, what everyone is saying is that 175w MH isn't necessarily the best, and that it has worked for some, and not for others. Before you go looking at upgrading your lights or anything, we're saying you should focus on your water quality.

From what I've been following here is what I would do if I was you.
1) Get my water parameters under control and maintain them for at least 3 months before adding anymore SPS.
2) Step back and reevaluate your set up. How are you existing SPS doing, what about your livestock. Are you seeing growth and color in your SPS? Are you fish thriving? I know you take photos of your setup, so consider keeping a "photo diary" of your existing frags, and see if they grow, color up, or brown out. From there you should be able to ascertain where you need to go next, whether its a lighting upgrade, or something else.

To answer your original question about SPS and flow, this is how I understand it works. Flow helps because it gets the SPS, and LPS to extend their polyps. The heavier the flow the thicker branches seem to appear in SPS because they must withstand the force of the flow. SPS are found on few different types of reefs, each with their own flow and ebb patterns. Flow helps reproduce the natural environment, it provides circulation through branches, and even brings nutrients and disposes of waste. More flow is better, to a point. In my experience, and my tank, my sps like to wave a little, but its just that my experience. Pick up Borneman's Aquarium Corals book, its invaluable in helping you educate yourself on what your keeping, and what we know about these creatures.

A phosphate reactor, using a phosphate remover, will only remove phosphates, it would necessarily give you better coloration.

[Jason McK]

Mik can I recommend investing in this book. It will help you a lot and you will begin to understand the proccess and theory
The Reef Aquarium Volume 3 by C. Delbeek & J. Sprung

Every store has it and it will save you a lot of money in the long run

J

[michika]

Mik can I recommend investing in this book. It will help you a lot and you will begin to understand the proccess and theory
The Reef Aquarium Volume 3 by C. Delbeek & J. Sprung

Every store has it and it will save you a lot of money in the long run

J

I second this recommendation, its also an awesome book.

[Aquattro]

Catherine, just to be clear, I'm not saying that 175w don't work, I ran them for a long time with decent results. Only when i went to bigger lights I got better color. I was able to upgrade at the time for no cost to me, so I wouldn't recommend throwing away 175s to get something else.

[Mik_101]

Mik can I recommend investing in this book. It will help you a lot and you will begin to understand the proccess and theory
The Reef Aquarium Volume 3 by C. Delbeek & J. Sprung

Every store has it and it will save you a lot of money in the long run

J

Ouch. Kind of pricey. Is their anyone that I could borrow it from?

[michika]

Try Amazon.ca, or Chapters. They are often considerably cheaper then in stores.

[Captainhemo]

Ouch. Kind of pricey. Is their anyone that I could borrow it from?

Hey Mik,, , I know these books seem really expensive but the wealth of information that they provide you will end up saving yoou so much money and disapointment in the long run that they will easily pay for themselves. Books can be some of the best investments you'll make in the hobbv.

[Jason McK]

Ouch. Kind of pricey. Is their anyone that I could borrow it from?

A lot Cheaper then the $250.00 you are going to spend on a ballast

J

[Captainhemo]

A lot Cheaper then the $250.00 you are going to spend on a ballast

J

Yup, and at this point, the book would be better for you, your tank, and all its inhabitants.

[Mik_101]

A lot Cheaper then the $250.00 you are going to spend on a ballast

J

Not going to get it scenes my corals are getting their color back.

[Mik_101]

I'm going to see if my local library has it.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

I doubt any public library would have such a specialized book, but it never hurts to try.

[Mik_101]

I doubt any public library would have such a specialized book, but it never hurts to try.

True you never know.