talking about T5 and SPS color !

[andresont]

Almost unbelievable

http://www.atiaquaristik.com/index.php?id=139,0,0,1,0,0


http://www.atiaquaristik.com/index.php?id=140,0,0,1,0,0

[fishytime]

I saw this guys tank in a link on another forum. And ...WOW. Not to shabby for T5s eh?

[Snappy]

I think that part of the consideration here isn't the just lighting but the grade of the corals. From my understanding when companies are distributing sps worldwide generally the European market is sent the grade A, USA is sent grade A/B & Canada is sent what they can't sell elsewhere or grade C. Could be just a rumor but how often do you see sps that looks really good in the stores here?
Nice looking stuff on that link.

[Jason McK]

Well I certainly can't get those colours from my Frag tank.

I run MH in my display but as soon as I frag a coral and put it in my frag tank it looses all it's great colour.

[andresont]

Yeah, and also in the discription ,they feed them some color suplement too.

[Delphinus]

I think that to a point, there is some element of truth to the saying that Canada gets the leftovers.. but ... at the same time, I think a "Grade A" coral quickly becomes a "Grade B" or "Grade C" coral, depending on tank conditions and maintenance. And I think the reverse is true, that a "Grade B or C" coral can become a "Grade A" once again under the right care. So for us it becomes more about what "potential" a piece has, over what a piece "currently looks like." That's my take anyhow.

Here's another thought. There's just something I can't quite put my finger on when I look at those photos. It's like ... it's like, if I look at the individual coral closeup photos ... they look nice, but no nicer than some of the nice corals I've seen in fellow Canuck's tanks.

For example, take a look at this light blue acro, seen in the first link above:
http://www.atiaquaristik.com/content/images/42cb225c52ef5dfe91fa6cbd866f8e26.jpg

Now look at this one (This is from a Canreefer's tank):
http://members.shaw.ca/jcaramat/new/pan007.jpg

Is the German coral really nicer than the local coral? I don't think so. In fact, I think quite the opposite. The Canreefer's coral shows MUCH nicer in closeup. Plus the background is cleaner, ie. no bubbles and fuzz algae on the rocks.

But when I look at the German full-tank shot:
http://www.atiaquaristik.com/content/images/dd5c7facda1e7db9f105334ab480d92f.jpg

There's something subjective that makes the presentation almost overwhelming. Like I said, I can't quite put my finger on it, but it seems to have something to do with the density, and the placement of each coral so as to maximize the contrast between each piece, which gives the tank a much better "Oohhh wow" factor.

The one thing about this German tank that also sticks out, there are some larger colonies there and the colours are solid from top to bottom and there is no recession at the bottom. I for one would really like to know to manage that on a long-term basis. Anytime I had a large SPS colony, the top would shade out the bottom and there would be brownouts or outright recession at the bottoms. Caps were the worst for this and in fact I steer away from caps nowadays for this reason, I grew weary of constantly needing to trim them back every week. So is it a question of the right kind of flow, ie., something they've got that we don't, is it a question of moving your lights around so that there's no constantly-shaded-out-spots? Or do they rearrange their tanks often enough to keep up? Or is there a more sinister side to the story, ie., are they just replacing their corals as they lose that initial "pop" ? (I really hope that's not the case!!)

Or maybe they just have the dosing equivalent of steroid abuse - I know the colours are nice but if THAT were the case, I'd be very wary about a regimen like that - I'd hate to basically have to be treating my tanks as the equivalent of a full time job and I'd hate to train someone up to take care of my tank like that in the times I have to go away for work or vacation or whatever ..

At any rate though, I'm not sure that T5's are really the only difference here. Certainly T5's have a lot of potential however, there's no doubt about that.

:)

[Nate]

Tony you speak of the bottom of the coral recession, which I used have using a standard 250 watt halide. I no longer experience this after using an 8 bulb tek t5 unit, becasue the light comes from different angles, not so much of a spotlight effect.

As for coral colours. I have never had as good of colour as I do now with T5's. and that is not to sum it all up to t5's either as there are many things I do differently now.

Also, to comment on how the tank just looks off...I notice this too with some European tanks, I think they would look more accurate if the prices were written on the glass infront of the corals as they all have that display case look to them.

Nate

[Delphinus]

Hmmm, interesting. The diffuse-ness of the light helps keep the bottoms viable. Ok, that's a major plus then for the T5's.

Curious, what are your thoughts about penetration of T5's? How tall is your tank? Would additional bulbs (ie. 8 vs. 6, or 10 vs. 8, etc.) compensate for taller tanks (e.g., a 30" tall tank).

I imagine one big plus of an 8 bulb unit is the ability to mix and match bulbs to get a wicked colour and spectral coverage.

What other things would you say you are doing that are contributing to your better colour these days?

[michika]

Is it just me or does the water at the top of both tanks look hazy? Could it just be the photos, but some of the colors looked washed out, particularly at the top of the tanks.

Delphinius, I must agree with you, I've seen some local tanks that look just as good, if not better. The colors, and clairity of some local tanks are much sharper, giving the viewer a "cleaner" view.

[Nate]

Ummmm....

Tony 24 inch tall tank, 30 inch wide...the 8 bulb tek unit gives full coverage.

Penetration is great, I wish the tank was 30 tall for 2 reasons. One, growth to the top, and 2 I bleach quite a few corals with the intensity of the light (ie encrusting monti's) even on the very bottom of the tank.

I also wanted to mention I have been trying out as many different bulbs as possible everything from 3000 k to all the different ATI bulbs. So if you have any questions about a bulb in particular, I will be happy to let yyou know iuf I have tried it and noticed abything with it.

BEtter colour I attribute to....

LESS Maintenance
T5 lighting
More flow (4 koralia 4's and a couple of seio's on a seio controller, and two rio 32 hf'splumbed through the eurobrace.)

Oh, and I am now using a bubblemaster as well, which hasnt made a difference in colour, but possibly polyp extension for some reason
and just better tank design than my tanks prior.

[andresont]

I also wanted to mention I have been trying out as many different bulbs as possible everything from 3000 k to all the different ATI bulbs. So if you have any questions about a bulb in particular, I will be happy to let yyou know iuf I have tried it and noticed abything with it.

.
Can you please tell me what is the best T5 lamps choise for crisp white with lots of blue in it? I just ordered T5 Tek x 6 lamps and Bulbs choice was
4xATI Blue+, 1x Midday and 1x ATI BlueSpecial ?
I did not received my fixture yet , did i make a right chice for 36" long 24" inch deep 60Gal tank with SPS in mind?
Thx.

[andresont]

Is it just me or does the water at the top of both tanks look hazy? Could it just be the photos, but some of the colors looked washed out, particularly at the top of the tanks.

Delphinius, I must agree with you, I've seen some local tanks that look just as good, if not better. The colors, and clairity of some local tanks are much sharper, giving the viewer a "cleaner" view.

I does look hazy , i think this might be because they use clay to help skim away nutrients that stick to it.

[Chin_Lee]

OK I don't really see the difference in power between these T5 tanks and a MH tank.
The first tank is 350g and tank dims (converted) are 6.5' long x 36 D x 24H.
For lighting its using:
10 x ATI Aquablue special 80 Watt which equals 800 watts
4 x ATI Blue plus 80 Watt which equals 320 watts
6 x ATI Aquablue special 39 Watt which equals 234 watts
2 x ATI Blue plus 39 Watt which equals 78 watts
Thats a grand total of 1432 watts over that tank.

Second tank is 250g and tank dims are 6.5" L x 36 D x 28 H.
12 x 80 Watt ATI Powermodul which is a total of 960 watts.

I think the main advantage the T5s have over MH is the even distribution of light throughout the tank.

[honkey sauce]

in germany, t5 and Zeovit is well practied combonation

[Veng68]

What's the consensus on when to change T-5's?

Cheers,
Vic [veng68]

[LostMind]

Hey Chin,

On a 3' wide tank, you can't get really good coverage via MH ime. You'd have to put up two mh's back to back or use a light mover (light movers rule, btw). So in the first tank you listed out up there, to get adequate mh coverage without a light mover you'd need 6 mh lamps.. 6 x 400w = 2400w + actinics. Or you could probably get away with a couple of actinics and 2? mh's on a light mover, which imo would be pretty cool, although it would make the display look kinda funky (and would be tough for taking pics) but would probably be awesome for all around coral growth due to light coverage? Would be a fun experiment, too bad the wife won't let me have more then one tank.

In any event, I think the original post was to validate the use of T5 lighting to grow SPS coral. I think T5's have been proven worthy of SPS so many times over it's a not a question of if you can run a successful SPS tank with them, but it's now become a just a matter of preference.

[andresont]

What's the consensus on when to change T-5's?

Cheers,
Vic [veng68]

24 Month for Midday and Blue plus
18 month for actinics

[StirCrazy]

another thing to remember is a lot of these photos are staged for photo shoots and posted to hype a type of light. I find it strange that most of the "WOW" T5 photos are from europe, and that everyone has seen the pics but no one seams to have seen the tank in person.

Also if you look at that pic it is only an 87 pixel shot so itis very grainey to start so you can realy get a good look at the edges of the corals when you zoom in, and when viewing normaly you can just make out a "green" tint to things that shouldent be grren, like the shadows. these are some tricks that used to be used for "adding colour" or "oversaturation" I beleive a few of us posted pics a few years back that were doctered to hell, but we stated they were. If I would have reduced the pixels from 300 to 80 and reduced the size you would have never knowen.

for all we know this tank coul dhave been set up just for the phot shoot, or could have been run with MH or what ever.

Steve

[Der_Iron_Chef]

Can you please tell me what is the best T5 lamps choise for crisp white with lots of blue in it? I just ordered T5 Tek x 6 lamps and Bulbs choice was
4xATI Blue+, 1x Midday and 1x ATI BlueSpecial ?
I did not received my fixture yet , did i make a right chice for 36" long 24" inch deep 60Gal tank with SPS in mind?
Thx.

andresont....did you end up getting this fixture? If so, which bulbs did you decide on, and do you like the colour combination? Any recommendations for me (I just ordered a T5 Tek fixture).

Nate....any recommendations for bulb combinations? I prefer a crisp white with slightly blue look. In other words, no yellow :D

[SuperFudge]

There's something subjective that makes the presentation almost overwhelming. but it seems to have something to do with the density, and the placement of each coral so as to maximize the contrast between each piece, which gives the tank a much better "Oohhh wow" factor.


Without a doubt, In my opinion 100% accurate Tony.
When one breaks down each piece in comparison, there is no difference from one to the next.
But noone ever does that.
When it all boils down to it, selection and placment are what truly makes for a eye popping tank, because there is no question anymore that we all can maintain the required parameters given the dedication and devotion to it.
This holds true in Gardening and landscaping....its just Aquascaping.

Not to detract from the real topic of the viablility of t-5`s, I dont believe there should be any debate.. they all work pretty good when done right... but, there will always be some brownies in the bunch that wont color up under the best or under any of circumstances, that is their natural potential...why should we expect more than that ?

There is no question in my mind that we do infact recieve the same corals as anyone else, but we have to remember the size of the markets and hobbiest communities here, if we are at 10% of the size of the rest of the worlds hobbiest communities...well, that`ll be reflected in availability, as thats what our market supports.
Sure, Vendors/Retailers who buy more will get first dibs on premium grades and possibly exclusivity, but they are generally available to all...sad, but whoever spends the most money wins in this instance.

This attention payed to coral placement for contrast is huge...thats why youll see the mixed overlapping capricornus displays aswell as the mingled stag type garden looks so beautiful.
This remains equally important in selection of individual corals and pictures of them, many of the most sought after pieces are ones that contast greatly on a single coral, in polyp to base color differences...supermans, ultramans, hulks...... Most of the LE`s are included in this group.
Possibly those with some more experience with zoo`s, blasto`s, chalice`s,and shrooms could chime in here with thier thoughts.

The trick is to look at a coral thats been sitting in someones tank or store and see this potential...its hit and miss, and forsure youll hit a dud once and a while...but its part of the hobby for me, and i love it.



Marc.

[zulu_principle]

Marc

I was going to PM but thought the forum was a better spot for this.

When you say there should not be a debate, what do you mean ?

Im not really sure, i have seen both but not with the color from the european sites.

Is it more the additives or is the light better for sps ?

My bet is not but at the higher voltage does that make the lamp burn brighter ?

On the note of whats available, anything is available, the issue is purely supply and demand and the outcome is price.

There are a few that would pay, landed, sight unseen and no regard to condition on various species, but with the associated costs and risks not sure there are many (even those that heavily invested).

What do they say, "priceless".

[SuperFudge]

When you say there should not be a debate, what do you mean ?


I mean t-5, pc, halide,vho and regular outputs all work....its our improper application of them or to the system that may not.



Im not really sure, i have seen both but not with the color from the european sites.



Im unsure what your asking?

If its regarding coral species, then your saying youve seen corals they have that you cant get ?

Or coral color from these lights ?

I havent seen one with color from anywhere that any of us shouldnt also expect to see .



Is it more the additives or is the light better for sps ?



I dont know on your tank, but i can tell you on mine :)

*EDIT* What i should say, is any system needs to be adressed not by what the other guys doing, but the next trouble causing issue in any given tank, one at a time until you see what you wanted to see.
It may be both, it may be none, some of each or something totaly unrelated to either of those.





What do they say, "priceless".


yeah, we all know you got a couple stashed in that display...cmon whip em out n Lets see em ! :D.

[DJKoop]

There is no question in my mind that we do infact recieve the same corals as anyone else, but we have to remember the size of the markets and hobbiest communities here, if we are at 10% of the size of the rest of the worlds hobbiest communities...well, that`ll be reflected in availability, as thats what our market supports.
Sure, Vendors/Retailers who buy more will get first dibs on premium grades and possibly exclusivity, but they are generally available to all...sad, but whoever spends the most money wins in this instance.



Marc.

I agree here 100%. I had a discusion with a wholesale buyer who went to Bali to pick out an order. He said there were corals there that make anything we get here look pale and uncolored. The real good corals all go to Japan. They have the market there that is willing to pay 4 times what we pay here. Therefore they get first pick.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

So hey...about those T5 bulb combinations....:D

I'm interested in the Fiji Pink, Fiji Purple and Coral Light bulbs by Korallen (I think?). Albert, any product knowledge/availability regarding these particular bulbs? I was perusing some German sites (thank goodness I can read German), and they were roughly $45/bulb, not including shipping.

Yikes.

[SuperFudge]

I agree here 100%. I had a discusion with a wholesale buyer who went to Bali to pick out an order. He said there were corals there that make anything we get here look pale and uncolored. The real good corals all go to Japan. They have the market there that is willing to pay 4 times what we pay here. Therefore they get first pick.


But, they cant take em all !....we still get some "leftovers", But garanteed there a few of the same ones they recieved, and if you pick em right, the same ones that are in many of our lfs displays right now and that youve seen already 10 times that you were previously in there.
They just may have browned up in that specific display...

Remember Cracker Jacks ? :D

[albert_dao]

So hey...about those T5 bulb combinations....:D

I'm interested in the Fiji Pink, Fiji Purple and Coral Light bulbs by Korallen (I think?). Alberta, any product knowledge/availability regarding these particular bulbs? I was perusing some German sites (thank goodness I can read German), and they were roughly $45/bulb, not including shipping.

Yikes.

Might be in the works on my end. We'll see, maybe a nice Fall season pick up?

One bulb that was just released that may be worth taking a look at is the ATI ProColor. They're pink, quite pink. I'm thinking they might be very similar to the KZ Fiji Pink's in appearance, but they're definitely meant as a supplementary bulb.

Here's some product details:

http://shops.venditio.com/meerwasser-onlineshop/katalog_php/1_1091192119171_1091192710640_1091364839531_117032 3676328/1183645209796/image_zoom.php?show=OTFhM2M1MTUzOWE2ODc5MGE1MjUwZj M5NDNiM2IxMjEuanBnP3dpZHRoPSI1MzgiIGhlaWdodD0iNDA0 Ig%3D%3D

*Run through a translator if you can't read German. I did, har har har.