Optimum Ballast for 175W 10000k German Bulbs

[Troy F]

The title pretty much sums it up. I'm considering running the 175W 10000k German bulbs (I don't know the make but J&Ls has them) but with all the talk of performance on certain ballasts I wanted to know what some of you informed lighting guys think. I know it'll be a substantial drop in intensity but I'd change my stocking accordingly.

[One_Divided]

Troy I used 175w 10ks from J&L for a good 14-15 months. I ran one on a standard pfo ballast and the other on a hamilton ballast (I don't knwo what the actual ballast was inside). The pfo was maybe a little bit brighter. I would be curious to know what other ballasts might utilise the 175 bulbs better. I haven't seen 175w hqi ballasts, but I wonder how they might run on a 150w hqi ballast. I'm curious to see what kind of information you find. I still have my 3 month old 175s sitting on the shelf.

[EmilyB]

:D

They will know.

However, I run 175w 10kk Ushios on the Hamilton ballast, whatever the heck that is.....lol It ran AB's similarly, but those were old when I bought the unit, so I never gave them much chance.

Awesome bright white....with only two NO actinics. Even without.

Now, on to the professionals... :lol:

oops..just missed your post One... :oops:

[Aquattro]

Troy, I ran mine for a year with PFO ballasts. I really liked the color. I haven't looked specifically at your question, but while reading other posts on RC, I think the M57 is as good as you're gonna get with those.
BTW, J&L has the Ushio bulbs. Jayson has the German true 10k, can't recall the difference.

[StirCrazy]

If it was me buying it troy I would use a M137 pulse start ballast.. this should extend bulb life (acording to tests conducted so far) and will burn the bulb properly.. I have a 10000K Ushio 175 watt MH also and it is run on a normal MH ballast and it is very unreliable in its starting.. some times it starts first time, some times second time, some times it will try and try and finaly go a hour later. When J&L was asked about this by myself there reply was that it is commen with all 10000K bulbs.. I now know that is because they are comenly run on the wrong ballasts :roll:

Steve

[Troy F]

Thanks for the input guys & gal :) . Steve do you have a source and price on the M137 pulse start?

Brad, how did you find the colour on SPS under the 175s? I'm not going to have many but I'm kind of attached to a couple that Marc gave me. I'd hate to have them lose colour but the main intent of the tank is branching LPS.

Adam, Deb and Brad, did you guys all also experience poor starts with your 10000K bulbs?

[EmilyB]

Adam, Deb and Brad, did you guys all also experience poor starts with your 10000K bulbs?

No... :? :?:

[Troy F]

Deb, Steve mentioned that his bulb wasn't firing (and his wife confirmed this 8) ) so I wondered if any of you had the same problems.

[EmilyB]

Steve mentioned that his bulb wasn't firing (and his wife confirmed this

:lol:

[Troy F]

I'm glad you enjoyed it. I hope Steve sees the humour :) .

[StirCrazy]

Doh, the one day I am not home you come over.. figures...

seriously though call J&L's and ask Alan how commen miss fires are on the 175 watt Ushio 10000K bulbs.. I got this one from Brad and he never had a problem with it but it has done this sence day one here.. J&L said this usaly goes on for a month or two andit will stop.. hmmm 3 months now.. mind you it is getting better.. started first time twice this week :wink:


Steve

[Aquattro]

Troy, I never had a problem with 175w bulbs. The one Steve has fired every time for the 3 weeks I had it, but Steve has had constant trouble. I took it back to John and he fired it right away, so it's kinda hard to complain about it:-)
I read somewhere that the Ushio 175W were now being built with an in-bulb ignitor. John could probably confirm this with PFO if you ask him.

[Delphinus]

FWIW, I use Phillips M57 ballasts, never had an issue with starts. I think this is year 3 or 4 with these particular ballasts.

[One_Divided]

Never have a problem with them firing and I always got good colour out of my corals from them.

[StirCrazy]

well here is another tidbit.. a quote from the article I was talking about.

"Although the data is not statistically analyzable, a few points of observation can be made. The variation among the 2 new lamps was almost 20%, and variation between the used lamps was about 15%. The pulse start ballasts do not significantly impact the output of the lamps. But, the used lamps had PPFD values within the range of the new lamps tested. This could potentially imply that the Pulse Start Ballast is less severe on the lamp and has increased the lamp life. This would be very significant for the reef aquarist since it would increase the length of time the lamps could be used, and merits further study."

now this is on bulbs that have had starters added also. if you look at the AB 250's I have (german bulbs, along with BLV and Ushio) they have had a starter added but the design of the bulb is still bassed off of the European standard. so to run to design they need a lower voltage and a higher curent.. ended up witht he same power consumption though.

Take a look at Brad's lights for instance.. they ran fine for ever on his ballasts.. but on the son agro (which is a repensation of the european counterpart, well closer than the ones he was using anyways) he got a 38% jump in PAR output and even whiter color.. I am not saying that a normaly ballast won't work.. just that another may work better. and that it looks like there is benifits in using a pluse start over a normal ballast in terms of bulb life and color shift.

JMHO

Steve

[Troy F]

Thanks for the input guys & gal :) . Steve do you have a source and price on the M137 pulse start?

I think I read your post somewhere that the bare ballast is around $150 but would like to know for sure. And, who's carrying them.

[Jayson]

The best ballast I have used for german 10k bulbs is the Ice Cap 175 watt. I recorded very ,very similar reading in lux as a 250 Iwasaki. I have never had any misfire issues. Thanks

[Troy F]

How old were the ballasts you measured the Iwasakis on Jayson? I've never read anywhere that there were those kinds of output improvements when using E ballasts. If I remember correctly, the Iwasaki beat a lot of the higher K 400W bulbs.

I thought briefly about Icecap ballasts then came back down to reality when I saw the price per ballast.

[Doug]

Troy, I ran mine on a regular type ballast. Dont know the specific model, just an ordinary ballast.

I then purchased a pair of Icecaps tp drive them. They were brighter, but not a large difference. However the ballasts are very nice and are suppose to give the bulbs some longevity, which the 175w German 10K, already has a reputation for.

After I sold my electronic ballasts, I purchased another duel, regular type. This was to run a pair beside my 400 12K. That set-up worked fine. I sold them to a friend, who ran them on his 120g. WE though it would be fine over the tank, but as time went on, it became our opinion that there was not enough light for the corals, with that particular set-up.

Definately more light from 4 vho bulbs over the same system. Soooo, if I was to use them alone, as a lighting source again, I would,
- run them on electronic ballasts
-not try to cover more than 2 sq. ft.
-not try to run to deep.

[Jayson]

The ballasts were both Ice Cap the ballast were both around 6 monthes old. It is not just any E ballast only the Ice Cap that you will notice the difference. You can feel free to contact Andy over at Ice Cap for more specifics as to why this. If I remember correctly it is because the are run on a 20,000 hetz output. Thanks

[ldzielak]

Troy,

I'm runing the Hamilton German 10K (purchased from Jayson 2 weeks prior to the pics), here are 2 pics of my tank from Oct 13 2002. The corals have adjusted more and look muck better now, except for the blue/purple acro, but I think my alk has more to do with that. I'm not super happy with my camera, but this should give you an idea. I'm also using the Hamilton ballast, will get the number off the inside maybe on the Sunday when I make it home. Oh and 2 URI 110 VHO Atinics.

Got any frags you can part with?

Lee

http://www3.telus.net/public/a7a92965/fish/P1010027.jpg
http://www3.telus.net/public/a7a92965/fish/P1010053.jpg

Modified just for you Tony!!

[Delphinus]

RBP (really big picture) alert .... :shock: :P

[Jack]

I really want to use 10k 250w MH, w/VHO actinic on my new 120G tank.

I bought Adam's IceCap 430 and I have the 110w Super Actinic bulbs and endcaps ready to go. I went to the local hydrophonic store and picked up two- 250w MH setups (reflectors, sockets, wires, boxes) for a very good price. I belive I bought the M57 ballasts, that steve and others have been talking about, Steve also confirmed that they should run the Ushio's fine.

My question is, are these the best ballasts for the job? I'd really like to do this right, I could simply "swap" ballasts and keep the rest of the setup intact. Is there a better "bare ballast" out there that I could aquire and swap?

[StirCrazy]

Steve also confirmed that they should run the Ushio's fine.

My question is, are these the best ballasts for the job?

that is two different issues, you wanted one for iwasakis or 10K, that will run both fine, now the other statement depends on how muich you are willing to spend.. to buy a raw M80 ballast so far the best price I have come up with is 150ish per ballast, no wires or anything just a bare ballast. for 340, I can get the double PFO hqi from J&L so unless I find a cheeper sorce befor to long I will be shoping at J&L for this.. so realy it all depends on what you are willing to spend on ballast.. you probably got yours for about 60.00 each.. are you willing to spend tripple the amount?

Steve

[Delphinus]

Actually "ANSI M57" is 175W, so if they're 250W ballasts they're probably "ANSI M58."

175W - M57
250W - M58
400W - M59
150W - M102
1000W - M48
150W (double ended) - M80
250W (double ended) - M81

The M80's and M81's seem to be a fair bit more in cost ... I remember when I looked into this I was looking at >$150 per ballast...

[StirCrazy]

Delphinus you have the M80 and the M81 backwards.. the M80 is a 250 watt MH
which you can verify here
http://www.advancetransformer.com/ecom_PDFS/out/3167015001.pdf

the M81 is a 150 watt
http://www.advancetransformer.com/ecom_PDFS/out/3167015002.pdf


Steve

[Delphinus]

Whoops, thanks for catching that .... and I got the M48 wrong too, it is M47 for 1000W and M48 is for 1500W I think.

[Jack]

I just took the box apart awhile ago, and it's a SYLVANIA M58, I belive. Now I'd better really verify that because I'm confusing myself AND you guys! Geez.

So can you use HQI ballasts on regular bulbs. I thought HQI had a double ended bulb?