How to Find and Kill Evil Hitchhikers

[Pier Pressure]

Last weekend when the tank lights went out at eleven, all fish, inverts and corals were doing fine. The fish were eating like pigs as usual, very active.

By nine-thirty the next morning, five of my fish and three of my shrimp were dead. Now you may start thinking water quality, but the inverts, anemones, etc. are fine and water tests are good, too.

A couple days later, my firefish came out of hiding in the rocks. He is still very skittish but spending more time outside of his rock than he was originally.

Long story short - I think I may have a hitchhiker(s) that is evil and killing my livestock. How do I catch it/them? Especially if there is more than one.

The tank is only a 28 gallon but there are about 30 pounds of live rock in there. Tips or tricks most appreciated.

[seashells]

Ye olde bottle trap. I only caught one that way but hey its a start!!

[Dragonsteeth]

What could this creature be that seeks and destroys several fish overnight?

[Pier Pressure]

General Consensus seems to be some kind of evil crab. Anybody got a link on how to do this bottle trap thingy?

I am fairly new to salt - less than six months in so far.

Water quality could not be the issue because my inverts (other than the shrimp) were fine. Spike would have to be crazy-large for ammonia to kill in 9.5 hours, too.

Plus the firefish is okay. It took him two days to come out of his rock and he is still very skittish. He must he hiding from something.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

Yeah, try the old bottle trick. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Here's an image I found:

http://x00.xanga.com/8ddd2b4b36c31118240703/w84929414.gif

[Pier Pressure]

Thanks, Drew. I guess some of my hermit crabs will get trapped as well but I can always let those go. Once I get the killer(s) I shall happily fork them to death. I am not usually much for that sort of thing - but this is now about vengence for my dead livestock!

[Murminator]

What could this creature be that seeks and destroys several fish overnight?

This was my question also I been trying to help her on AA also. I cannot see a crab killing a blue sided wrasse, royal gramma, clown, damsel, midas blenny, and 3 shrimp in one night with no visible scars.
I think it is biological the tank does contain 2 sea apples and 2 anemones I think the apples got stressed released something(poison) into the water killed everything and since it was such a small space it was quickly skimmed out by morning
......but I have recently fallin off a turnip truck :mrgreen: ....so I been told

[Pier Pressure]

Murray according to the research I have done on sea apples, if they release the toxin they are done. They blow up to volleyball size and die after the release of the toxin. Elite has sea apples in many of their tanks, and I was informed that they have seen feeder tentacles pulled off and a sea apple actually cut in half and in neither case did they release the toxin.

The green bubble tip anemone hosts a white caribbean crab who is still alive and fine, and the white sebae is located right next to my open brain and xenia and they are fine, too.

I could see the poison thing being a reality if everything did indeed die. But the hermit crabs, emerald crab, sea apples, anemones, etc. are all fine. Why didn't they die, too?

Also what about that crazy firefish? How come he is still alive and fine, though appears skittish as stated?

I have no idea what could kill all those creatures overnight but if I find anything I will certainly let you know.

I just had a thought - I bought a gi-normous brittle star (purple and black in colour) a few months ago. He disappeared into the rocks and we laughed and laughed at having spent $35 on a creature we have only seen once.

Well, I managed to catch a glimpse of one of his arms yesterday and he is huge. Could one of those kill the creatures if so inclined? I am going to look that up right away.

Thing is - that brittle star has been in there for months. Why kill so suddenly? And isn't it a coincidence that I put new coral frags and a gsp rock in that day, and suddenly everybody is dead less than twelve hours later?

Thank you for all of your help, guys, here and on AA. It will drive me crazy until I figure it out. And I do not want to put more livestock into a death zone without knowing what killed everybody.

[seashells]

I have lost crabs, snails, a clown, and now my Mandarin has slices in its tail fin. Frustration!! Can't find the culprit!

[dunl]

What kind of marks are on the fish? If nothing, it's not a crab, mantis, or brittle star.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Large starfish can be fish predators. What type was it? Google it to see if the one you bought is possibly the culprit.

[Canadbis]

Did something maybe come in on the GSP or other frags you have just introduced?
Maybe you added to much at once?

[Pier Pressure]

Okay just did further research on the brittle star as well as further research on the sea apples.

The only brittle star I could find that is "rumoured" to have eaten fish is a green one, and this thing is definitely purple. Plus fish bodies were not eaten or ravaged, so if the brittle star was preying on the fish I think their little bodies should have shown more evidence of same. The only thing we noticed on the dead fish was that their gills were a bit puffy.

The sea apples are one of the first thing that I put into the aquarium and they can be seen feeding daily - that is, one feeder tentacle after another is placed in their mouths, they are breathing out of their butts fine (cool feature, eh?) and they do not appear stressed at all. Their positioning within the tank did not change at all on the night of death in question.

I am going to try that bottle thingy tonight. If I come up with anything weird, or anything changes, I shall of course update this thread.

Canabis, that is exactly what I am thinking.

Karen

[dunl]

If the only sign of damage was puffy gills, I say it's not an animal. I know of no animal that kills others leaving puffy gills as the only evidence.

[mark]

Your test kits current, checking for the usual (NH3, Nitrates), salinity, no stray currents, no temp swings?

Checking the tank in the middle of the night with a red lensed light?

[Pier Pressure]

I am using two different test kits for the ammonia/nitrite thing, one is just about brand new, and they are reading nothing. The highest reading of those I got was after I found the dead fish and shrimp and then nitrite and nitrate was 0.3 so just above trace. Since then nothing. Salinity, PH, everything exact same that night as it was the next day and remaining steady.

I have to pick up a red lensed light this weekend and check out some night viewing. Where would a person get one of those?

After staring at the tank tonight until I am just about blind, I know for sure I have at least one of those gross bristle worm things. Red, about two inches long. Kinda looks like a centipede.

I am going to try the old bottle capture trick tonight and see what I come up with.

dunl, what DOES cause puffy gills? Any ideas?

This is a great site. Lots of support and lots of interest. Thank you!

[Canadbis]

It may take a few nights/weeks to catch something.
I still haven't caught these two crabs that I have found molts of.
I have given up.

[Ruth]

With that many fish etc. dieing in that short of period of time I highly doubt that it is a predator hitchiker. Particularly since you say they had no other marks on them other than puffy gills.
A couple of possibilities come to my pea brain. Did you by any chance have a power outage or loose circulation for a period of time? Do you run a skimmer and perhaps shut it off overnight. The reason I ask is because when I had a breaker trip and lost circulation overnight in one of my tanks I lost 4 fish (out of 7) and it was from lack of oxygen in the water. For the most part the fish I lost were large however on very large one (my Naso Tang)survived. Some fish are way more suseptable to an oxygen drop.
The next thing to explore is water quality. I know you tested yours but could you please let us know what brand of test kit you are using and what your #'s for Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite, PH, calcium, alk/dkh, and magnesium are. Sometimes it can be an inbalance in chemestry however I do not suspect this in your case.
Of course the last thing is some kind of disease that only effected some of your livestock and that list is way too long and complicated to try and guess at.

[Johnny Reefer]

If the gills, and only the gills, were affected.....and since fish breathe through the gills by passing water over the gills.....it appears to me to be a water quality issue of one sort or another, be it a toxin or whatever. My guess is a toxin from the Sea Apple(s). To borrow a line from "Reef Invertebrates" by Calfo & Fenner: "Sea Apples (Cucumarids) are definitely more difficult to keep in captivity. They also include some of the few species in this class (Holothuroids) actually toxic enough under duress in practical applications to kill fishes (the toxin is harmful to few if any invertebrates). .......... It is very important to note that if the Cucumarid is ultimately stimulated to exude toxin, all fishes in the system are at risk of sudden death."
Sea apples are a big risk. Especially in a small system such as yours. I won't even keep one in my 180.

HTH and cheers,

[ludwig9393]

Hi,
can someone please identify what kind of crab is this? I just put the rocks in my tank and this hitchhiker come out. Is my future livestocks safe with this on the same tank?

sorry but thats the best shot i can get.


many thanks!

[Rippin]

Hi,
can someone please identify what kind of crab is this? I just put the rocks in my tank and this hitchhiker come out. Is my future livestocks safe with this on the same tank?

sorry but thats the best shot i can get.


many thanks!

The pics are too blurry for any type of positive ID. Try moving back from the glass and use the zoom on your camera to enlarge it (if you have zoom on your camera).

[Salmon King]

A few years ago in my reef tank I spotted a red and black crab.It was neat looking so I left it in the tank.I had a purple and a Lavender tang dissapere.The next time I saw that little crab it was 6 inches .I caught him and never lost a fish again.A friend of mine had a large brittle star and a bunch of damsils in a tank.He was loosing a lot of fish and could/nt figure it out.One day he saw that star fish snag a fish.He said it was really fast.I always thought they were slow like slugs

[ludwig9393]

The pics are too blurry for any type of positive ID. Try moving back from the glass and use the zoom on your camera to enlarge it (if you have zoom on your camera).


thanks! i'll try to have a much clearer picture.

[BCOrchidGuy]

I had a green brittle star that would move 3 feet (across a 33 gallon in a second or less) and grab a damsel for breakfast, the star ate all 3 damsels in 3 mornings, after that I took it back and bought some keeper fish.

Swollen gills eh? any spots on the gills that you can see, are they pink still or discoloured? Any new rock, coral or fish added that was not QT'd? I know it seems we are not listening but we are and we'd all like to figure this out with you. Normally if the culprit is a crab, mantis etc there will be physical trauma to the body, seeing as this is not the case environmental issues/concerns or disease look suspect.

Doug

[dunl]

dunl, what DOES cause puffy gills? Any ideas?


A little late getting here, and looks like everyone has already suggested ideas.

I seriously think it is a water quality issue, and not a hiker if there's no trauma. Missing fish, now that would also be concern for a hiker. But if no trauma and only bodies, water quality it has to be. ;)

[Pier Pressure]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Water test kits - one is Hagen and the other which is only a month or so old is Oceans. I can advise that the numbers did not change (I do not have the numbers with me) as I tested the day I put in the new corals and also the next morning after we found the dead fish. Only readings that were different were 0.3 for nitrite and nitrate. With dead fish in the tank that is not surprising.

As to the sea apples releasing toxins, three shrimp died as well and they are inverts. Not to mention I have a firefish that is fine. Are they immune to sea apple poison?

Quick update: Found a bristle worm so going to get a trap for that this weekend. Also going to set up a bottle trap and see what it comes up with. The firefish did not show his face at all last night. This is the first day since he came out of hiding that I have not seen him. He did not even come out to eat.

I will let you guys know what I come up with, or if anything changes.

[Murminator]

Here is the original thread to get the whole story to help solve the puzzle :mrgreen:

http://albertaaquatica.com/index.php?showtopic=13105

**edit** fixed link

[Matt]

I'm going to chime in on the "not a hitch-hiker" theme. Any such deaths (crabs, mantis, bristleworm, etc) should be a predatory act, and should leave signs of that.

Red, puffy gills are a sign of a number of things I've never seen in my personal experience, including parasitic infection, introduced chemical irritants (including "hot" changewater, ammonia, chlorine, etc), overdosing with additives, heavy metals (unlikely here due to the relative effects on the inverts), bacterial infections, solvents (recent home renos, painting, etc?).

If it just started happening, it is likely something you did, or your water supplier did.

[Okguy]

I normally just lurk in the background around here, but I thought I would put my 2 cents in on this one. I agree with Ruth.

With that many fish etc. dieing in that short of period of time I highly doubt that it is a predator hitchiker. Particularly since you say they had no other marks on them other than puffy gills.
A couple of possibilities come to my pea brain. Did you by any chance have a power outage or loose circulation for a period of time? Do you run a skimmer and perhaps shut it off overnight. The reason I ask is because when I had a breaker trip and lost circulation overnight in one of my tanks I lost 4 fish (out of 7) and it was from lack of oxygen in the water. Some fish are way more suseptable to an oxygen drop.

Clearly not enough carnage to be a killer hitchhiker. Believe me I've seen my fair share of them...

My feeling is that the bioload was just too high to maintain the oxygen level at night or the CO2 levels got too high. 6 fish in a 28 gallon is an extremely high. While you're able to maintain the water quality with weekly water changes the oxygen levels we're probably dangerously low at night as everything in the tank would be using the oxygen and nothing can be creating it (unless you have a refugium on a reverse photo period). Adding the new critters probably put you over the top. In an oxygen deprived enviroment the larger more advanced species usually go first (ie. the fish and the shrimp). Which would explain why the hermits, snails and corals survived. The firefish just got lucky and it would explain why he is now freaked out. I think I would be freaked out if I almost suffocated :wink: .

Good Luck!

Kevin

[jslaney]

I remember reading a post about killer pods. Not sure if that could be it but from what I read they were incredibly nasty. Anyone remember where that link is?

It talked about a diver encountering them in the ocean and having his face attacked. Apparently they show up in aquariums on occasion.

Good luck.

[Murminator]

Here is the original thread to get the whole story to help solve the puzzle :mrgreen:

http://albertaaquatica.com/index.php?showforum=17

opps let me fix that

http://albertaaquatica.com/index.php?showtopic=13105

[ludwig9393]

Hi,
We manage to take some much clearer picture. We thought its not that harmful. Can someone confirm it?

Many thanks!

ludwig

[Ruth]

Red eyes = bad

[Pier Pressure]

Update: I thought I saw something with a bright blue head stick its mellon out of my new gsp rock last night. Plus I know I saw a bristle worm the day before. Firefish still missing.

Bottle trap weekend coming up. Any idea what has a bright turquoise blue head and lives in a rock? BTW my significant other is the one who found and dealt with the dead fish and shrimp and he told me last night he did not inspect them very well. Too sickened by the whole deal.

[ludwig9393]

Hi,
We manage to take some much clearer picture. We thought its not that harmful. Can someone confirm it?

Many thanks!

ludwig


as Im arranging my live rocks, 2 more of these kind of crab came out :surprise:
one thing for sure is that this crab were growing as the biggest that I have is half inch in length...

any body can identify what kind of crab is this?


thanks,

ludwig

[X-Treme]

Red eyes = bad

How in the "h e double hockey sticks" can you see red eyes on that thing? I can't see ANY eyes. LOL

[Ruth]

In the first photo posted I can definately see red eyes - unless I am halucinating again.

[Ticketyboo]

when i pulled out all my live rock a few days ago for aquascaping.... i was grossed out as to what came out of my rock. The rock had only been in there for 2 months and in that time i saw some huge massive flat pink worms that looked like centipedes crawling out the bottom of my rocks spanning out to over a foot in total length... was so gross......

On top of that, i pulled a black crab out 1/2 an inch long with pure red eyes... exactly like the one you listed.

I remember there was a thread on canreef about this crab before and people advised that it was a good thing.. big beefy creb, red eyes... = no no ..... as they thought it was attacking there livestock. This particular one was eating a massive piece of squid i put in there for my predators.

So if in doubt..... chuck it out..... so Martha 'Mad Dog' Mantis was introduced to him in my other tank.... i think they had fun together as there was lots of clicking that night.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

In the first photo posted I can definately see red eyes - unless I am halucinating again.

I see red eyes too, Ruth. Unless we're both hallucinating!

[Ruth]

I see red eyes too, Ruth. Unless we're both hallucinating!

Jeez - just when the voices stopped now this:mrgreen:

[skylord]

Now I know why my ex wife always had red eye in photos....she was/is evil!

Scott

[X-Treme]

I must not have been looking in the right place or 1am was a little to late for the eyes to function properly, but NOW I see the nasty beady little red eyes.

[Pier Pressure]

Yeah sadly enough I too am thinking that maybe my new frags put me over the top. We are just going to watch the corals grow for a while and see where we want to go from there.

I found some neat stuff this weekend. The blue-headed thing looks like a small slug of some sort, and a bristly red centipede thing is pretty cool looking, too. I had a snail lay eggs on the glass yesterday - that was awesome. It is amazing what one finds in these saltwater setups.

I will let you know if I come up with anything big or evil, but I have seen nothing that could have taken out all that livestock.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

Now I know why my ex wife always had red eye in photos....she was/is evil!

Scott

LOL!

[Ticketyboo]

my mantis didnt even touch this crab :sad:

Here is a pic of my hitch hiker