Moorish Idol x 2 discussion thread

[Renegade]

I have a pair of moorish idols for sale in very good condition however they picking at my corals now and must go.

I'm looking for 60 for the pair or 35 each

must sell ASAP

(they will do better as the pair)

they are not fully eating yet,

http://members.shaw.ca/petty9854/120gal%20Reef/04-02-07%202%20months%20in%20operation/slides/DSC_0867.html

[seashells]

Wish I could take them but tank to small. Take them back to LFS for credit.

[justinl]

whoever buys these fish, please do your research. they have a very bad track record... obviously.

deb, i completely agree that these fish shouldn't even be found on the market, but they are. it's not like it would be better to flush these guys.

[seashells]

How big a tank for a short time?

[Renegade]

well to defend myself i did do quite a bit of research when purchasing these guys with adequate tank size and not aggressive tank mates they are a good fit however they are simply being to aggressive themselves nipping at my corals, which i expected however when i remove that coral from the tank they simply start on the next one and the next one and the next one.

haven't you ever heard if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all.

and secondly i was trying to do them a favor in the first place when i rescued them from king eds

[niloc16]

they probably did have a better chance in your tank then the stores. i have heard that suppliers will send the moorish idols with orders even when they have not been ordered, so i dont think stores can be totally at fault. they are a beautiful fish though. just my 2 bits.

[dunl]

Moderators please remove the post that I am making between clenched teeth. Thank you.

And please someone save these fish.


Maybe don't read threads if they bother you. Your above message is the equivalent of people saying "I don't mean to be rude, but...."

If you have to clarify, maybe you shouldn't be posting. If your still upset about the Idol you lost yourself, that's understandable, but no need to enter a thread where the man is simply trying to find a home for two idols already in captivity. What's he going to do instead - flush them or feed them to a cat?

Here's a better idea: instead of the pot calling the kettle black, why don't you offer to take them yourself, as you are an experienced idol keeper?

[christyf5]

Please keep it on track guys. I've removed a few posts if you're wondering about the gaps.

[ponokareefer]

I do a lot of research on fish prior to buying them as well, and if I see one in the pet store that I really, really like, like these fish, I'd probably try them as well. You never know if they might work out, and they are so beautiful, no matter how difficult they might say they are. Do you see how many elegance and Goniopora corals are sold along with carpet anenomes, and how difficult they say they are to keep.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

I thought of goniopora, too, when I read this thread. I bought one after lots of research and had it eating cyclopeeze, growing, and extending beautifully. I think it all depends on the level of specific care you're able to give a difficult specimen....as well as the idea that, if you're willing to give that care, you might save it from dying slowly in a tiny tank at some pet store!

In the end, my tomato clown--who had a voracious appetite for violently cuddling with my goniopora--forced me to get rid of it. :smile:

[christyf5]

Since y'all insist on discussing this, I've moved it into the reef forum. The original for sale thread is in the Buy/Sell forum. Please do not reply to it unless you have direct interest in purchasing the fish.

Keep on chatting in here though :biggrin:

[ponokareefer]

I've got no problem with stores selling hard-to-keep items, but they should at least tell people about the issues. When I initially bought a Goniopora, the pet store was telling me it was a very easy to care for coral. Needless to say, I never shop there anymore.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

Oh sorry, Christy! By "keep it on track" I thought you meant...you know, just don't be a bugger about it :smile:

[christyf5]

Oh sorry, Christy! By "keep it on track" I thought you meant...you know, just don't be a bugger about it :smile:

hehe, guess I should have been more specific. No worries, this way we can still all yack about it (good topic) and not worry about it.

I just hope Renegade isn't getting a ton of email notifications about this thread :razz:

[ponokareefer]

Yah, sorry for getting off topic and taking over your for sale thread. How long did you have your Goniopora for Drew?

[Der_Iron_Chef]

I had the goniopora for about six months. It was doing really well (to my knowledge) until I added my clownfish.

It ate cyclopeeze out of a small eye dropper (I forget what they're called). I just turned the pumps off and spot fed the individual polyps for a few minutes. It was great!

[ponokareefer]

Has anyone on here had a Goniopora last over 2 years? I would be very interested in what you did.

[naesco]

It is completely understandable why some reefers get upset when they read Moorish Idol threads.

It is pretty well unanimous that these fish rarely survive and those who buy them and those who sell them know this. Buyers think that they are going to be the ONE who is sucessful. etc who is sucessful or they were trying to save the fish.

You do not 'save' impossible to keep species by buying them from LFS that sell them. The only way LFS stop buying them is when these fish die in their tanks and they lose the revenue.

Continue to do what most good reefers do. When you see a Moorish Idol or similar species call the owner of the store over and indicate that they should not be importing these fish and why. (he knows this anyway). But he will think twice about importing them in the future.

[UnderWorldAquatics]

can someone dig up my old thread on how to get these guys to eat....
goniaporia(good spelling) is a sinch too....

[Der_Iron_Chef]

can someone dig up my old thread on how to get these guys to eat....
goniaporia(good spelling) is a sinch too....

Huh?

[christyf5]

can someone dig up my old thread on how to get these guys to eat....
goniaporia(good spelling) is a sinch too....


http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7681&highlight=idol

[jslaney]

He is exactly right. If you try and save a fish from the LFS tank all you are doing is encouraging the LFS to buy more, thereby causing more overall suffering.

I know it is incredibly difficult to pass up some of the beautiful animals that come through the LFS but we have a responsibility too.

Think spider mans motto.

There is a link somewhere on canreef that states the commonly availible tank raised fish. I think that is the direction that we, as responsible salties, should be going.

I dont blame anyone for getting that rare fish, because I have done it myself but overall we should try not too.

My 2 cents

[Renegade]

the problem is most fish store don't order them. They order a dollar value worth of fish and that order is filled by whatever means possible. thats why these guys are not horribly over priced at pets store b/c they are "price to sell" NOT turn profit.

Kyle

but unfortunately once in captivity theres not much we can do but let them die @ the fish store or perhaps.

[EmilyB]

One will inevitably kill the other. Any research will point to this.

GETTING them to eat is all fine and dandy, it's the fact that CORAL is a part of their natural diet.

I think Sam will agree, we had luck with Moo because she was in a reef tank. She died very shortly after all that changed for her. :sad:

[dunl]

It is completely understandable why some reefers get upset when they read Moorish Idol threads.


Understandable, yes, but it's not understandable to jump into someone's buy/sell thread and hijack it.

[UnderWorldAquatics]

can someone dig up my old thread on how to get these guys to eat....
goniaporia(good spelling) is a sinch too....

I guess my whole post didnt go through... there was more than that....lol
too lazy to type it out again... dig up some of the old threads on goniaporia if you want to know how to keep them, its been covered well if I remember correctly

[EmilyB]

Understandable, yes, but it's not understandable to jump into someone's buy/sell thread and hijack it.

I don't view it that way I guess. The worst thing possible for those fish would have been someone to just buy the two of them and not know. He should take them back to the store, I agree.

[dunl]

Then perhaps posting some well thought out advice might have gone over smoother. ;)

[BCOrchidGuy]

I believe she just did, 20 years ago, people barely knew how to keep marine fish alive in captivity, corals would surely die a slow death if we attempted to keep them in an aquarium. Research and experimentation have gotten us to the point where we can keep a number of corals in our tanks, some are still very hard to keep, gorgonians for example as well as goniapora. As someone (I believe it was Drew) pointed out, as long as we are willing to do specific tasks that will increase the life expectancy of a coral or fish then we should be able to keep them. Someone else mentioned that most or a lot of fish stores don't order fish they just say, send us a dollar amount but I don't beleive that's accurate, what does happen though is fish are ordered and if not available the supplier "MAY" send other fish to make up the dollar amount for a couple reasons. The LFS still has to pay for the permits ($85/box I believe) regardless of how much the value of the fish is or are. The supplier also wants to get paid the full amount for filling the order, it makes sense to send what you have rather than keep it and hope someone else will buy it when you can send it off and be rid of it. Yes that's a cold attitude but that's the way it is.
I can honestly say, every time someone here has said, "this fish/coral/invert/sock is impossible to keep" someone else has come along and said, "I've done it" we've all had to shake our heads at one of these posts at least. Some fish are harder to keep than others, some are damn near impossible to keep, trigger fish are going to eat live rock, they don't know if that rock has a bit of hair algae on it or some super rare encrusting gorgoniagoniaporacapricornus, they eat rock and as the saying goes, if it looks like crap, smells like crap and taste like crap, obviously it's haggis. Fish do what comes naturally to them. If it's their nature to feed on corals they will.

I'll pass the soap box off to who ever is next in line

Doug

[Ticketyboo]

hey!!!!!!! whats wrong with haggis????????????????:mad:

[bulletsworld]

One will inevitably kill the other. Any research will point to this.

GETTING them to eat is all fine and dandy, it's the fact that CORAL is a part of their natural diet.

I think Sam will agree, we had luck with Moo because she was in a reef tank. She died very shortly after all that changed for her. :sad:


I agree with you Deb and Sam, 100%. After all your advice & how long you kept Moo for, it inspired me. I remember a few years back, I asked you, "what kind of coral is that?" Pointing to green star polyps, that looked nothing like it, cause Moo mowed it down so short. :lol: Hey still looked like a cool coral though! :lol: Boy, was Moo a great example though and an amazing size for being captive in a tank. I would pat yourself on the back, as an amazing achievement, really.

I took your advice and I felt my idol was doing so good because I fed him corals and sponges also. Who cares if I lost a few corals. I would buy brown ugly zoo's and green star polyps, ect, but felt it helped the success of keeping mine for almost 2 years.

I never understood why people find out something eats a certain coral and for some reason they never end of feeding it that. Boggles me, really.

[Quagmire]

So for the ppl who have had success with Morish idols,what did you find to be the coral(s) of choice for dinner.
Im not thinking of getting one myself,but the idea of a tank set up to suit the specific needs may go along ways to making this fish easier to keep.Perhaps something loosely based on a FOWLR,but with corals of choice added to meet the diet requirements,along with suitable tankmates.Pretty much as it sounds like Lee has done

[Ruth]

I kept my MI alive in my tank for over a year and always made sure that there were ugly brown zoos and GSP in there. Until I lost Elvis to an unfortunate breaker trip that lost all circulation in my tank overnight and cost me most of my large fish he was fat, seemed happy, and loved those polyps although readily accepted meaty foods and nori sheets.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

It's important to be concerned about difficult-to-maintain species. It's important to research everything about them before making that purchase. And, it's important to be willing to do what it takes to help that creature THRIVE.

I was reading an article online a few days ago. I think it was written by Eric Borneman (I could be mistaken). Anyway, the article indicated that things like Xenia were considered very difficult to maintain in a home aquarium at one point.

I guess my point is....I wonder if people who tried to keep things like Xenia did so at the expense of criticism and disdain? I wonder where you draw the line between irresponsible reefkeeping and...just trying to understand how to help organisms thrive in a home aquarium.

Just some thoughts. Nothing new, but felt like putting it down in writing :smile:

[hawk]

Research and experimentation have gotten us to the point where we can keep a number of corals in our tanks,

Doug

I could agree with this if it were done by very experienced/dedicated hobbyist, better yet left for professionals. But all too often there are stories on these boards of relatively new hobbyist experimenting with fish such as idols. The outcome of the story is known from the beginning. Research before you buy and leave the lfs to suffer the loss in the bottom line.

I'm interested to know what peoples definition of "success" is when keeping difficult fish. 1-2 years, 3-4, half the natural life span, longer, etc.

[Samw]

I agree with you Deb and Sam, 100%. After all your advice & how long you kept Moo for, it inspired me. I remember a few years back, I asked you, "what kind of coral is that?" Pointing to green star polyps, that looked nothing like it, cause Moo mowed it down so short. :lol: Hey still looked like a cool coral though! :lol: Boy, was Moo a great example though and an amazing size for being captive in a tank. I would pat yourself on the back, as an amazing achievement, really.

I took your advice and I felt my idol was doing so good because I fed him corals and sponges also. Who cares if I lost a few corals. I would buy brown ugly zoo's and green star polyps, ect, but felt it helped the success of keeping mine for almost 2 years.

I never understood why people find out something eats a certain coral and for some reason they never end of feeding it that. Boggles me, really.


Hehe. I don't want to participate in any arguments so I'll just post my thoughts in point form:

1. Needs highly oxygenated water, even more than angels. Power outages (without battery backup) of 1-2 hours probably is all that it takes to kill it in an average tank.
2. Needs lots of hiding places. Very easily stressed ; More easily stressed than any other fish I've kept. They probably do better in a reef tank due to more hiding places and fewer fish.
3. Will eat corals but does *NOT* need to eat corals to survive. Flakes was the main diet for my Idol before it outgrew my tank.
4. Probably does better alone than in pairs as they eventually stake out their territory once they have settled in and will kill other idols that can't get away (based on most accounts that I've read. most of the people who've kept them for years have just 1. I haven't read yet of anyone who has kept more than 1 idol for a long length of time in the same tank though I'm sure if someone has a tank the size of a pool, then it would be possible).
5. Not impossible to keep. But not tolerant of any mistakes made by the keeper.

[bulletsworld]

Hehe. I don't want to participate in any arguments so I'll just post my thoughts in point form:

1. Needs highly oxygenated water, even more than angels. Power outages (without battery backup) of 1-2 hours probably is all that it takes to kill it in an average tank.
2. Needs lots of hiding places. Very easily stressed ; More easily stressed than any other fish I've kept. They probably do better in a reef tank due to more hiding places and fewer fish.
3. Will eat corals but does *NOT* need to eat corals to survive. Flakes was the main diet for my Idol before it outgrew my tank.
4. Probably does better alone than in pairs as they eventually stake out their territory once they have settled in and will kill other idols that can't get away (based on most accounts that I've read. most of the people who've kept them for years have just 1. I haven't read yet of anyone who has kept more than 1 idol for a long length of time in the same tank though I'm sure if someone has a tank the size of a pool, then it would be possible).
5. Not impossible to keep. But not tolerant of any mistakes made by the keeper.


Sam, Very well said and great points! They do NEED highly oxygenated water, I think thats KEY to keeping these fish. I found that out when my skimmer crapped out, didn't realize. I looked at my idol and noticed he was huffing & puffing in the back corner, all concerned, I realized the skimmer died. After I corrected the problem, the idol was fine again. I always knew to look at the idol first to make sure nothing was wrong in the tank.

Sam, now that you mention it with the food. Even when mine picked on the LR, ate sponges, GSP, zoo's, nori, mysis, I still had to ask other Moorish Idol keepers what they fed, since my Idol (Chewie) was still skinny. I didn't notice Chewie, getting fatter till I added O.S.I Spirulina Flake Food. Which its thanks to Deb's advice, I believe was the same as what flakes MOO got fed. I believe those flakes made a big difference for growth.

[kari]

Mine must have skipped school the day they talked about GSP but kept good notes on zoo day.