View Full Version : Very rare mantis
I got this from Oceans. Still unconfirmed but definately didn't make Roys list.
I will let you know when he confirms what it is
Skimmer Juice
03-30-2007, 02:57 PM
That is a cool mantis.
It is confirmed as a Odontodactylus japonicus.
Not described and only found in Museums. Roy Caldwell has never seen a living specimen
justinl
03-30-2007, 03:31 PM
hey there rudy... yeah same justinl as on RC. Wow... that is arguably a sweeter find than O cultrifer. Take good care of it!
FISHNUTS
03-30-2007, 04:26 PM
Nice find!!
Aquabid...LOL
sl
Roy Caldwell has never seen a living specimen
That's amazing considering the 1000's of specimens that have gone through his lab!
Congrats Tim! No pressure but... all the mantis keepers in the known world are waiting to see how it goes :razz:
- Chad
rusty
03-31-2007, 12:49 PM
Hey Rudy That thing is sweet!! Can you get some more pics of it?
It is actually a LOT more pink and salmon colored than the pics.
More pics here http://s168.photobucket.com/albums/u198/rudykane/
I will get some pics after I settle him in his 55 today.
This apparently is the biggest smasher species that can get 8-10 inches (even bigger than a Peacock).
justinl
03-31-2007, 05:18 PM
is the 55 acrylic or very thick glass (like half an inch)? with a mantis that gets as big as Dr. Roy says yours will, I would be a very nervous man with a 55g glass tank.
is the 55 acrylic or very thick glass (like half an inch)? with a mantis that gets as big as Dr. Roy says yours will, I would be a very nervous man with a 55g glass tank.
Bahhh.
If he breaks the glass he will be even more rare as I have never heard of one actually succeed at this.
I have heard the mantis break the glass story so many times yet nobody has actually had one do it. I personally don't believe it, but I may eat my words one day.
If Stinky keeps his in a 50 gallon glass and it is o.k. I think anything is. His is a beast!
justinl
03-31-2007, 08:51 PM
I know it happens very rarely and only with large smashers (like yours). But it does happen. Just ask Dr. Roy, he's had a few tanks get smashed. He even has a pic of a peacock in the middle of smashing the glass.
I just thought that since yours is so rare (and ridiculously so) I personally wouldn't be taking any chances at all. you have to understand that if Dr. Roy of all people hasn't even seen one ALIVE, then you have a VERY VERY special mantis on ya. jmo
Bahhh.
If he breaks the glass he will be even more rare as I have never heard of one actually succeed at this.
I have heard the mantis break the glass story so many times yet nobody has actually had one do it. I personally don't believe it, but I may eat my words one day.
If Stinky keeps his in a 50 gallon glass and it is o.k. I think anything is. His is a beast!
:lol:
I got a small mantis from Kari and kept it in one of those hang on breeder boxes over night on my reef tank. By morning he had smashed just about enough of the little grates to get out, but I was lucky enough to get him just before he got out.
Then I set him up in a little acrylic Azoo cube with some liverock. He pullverized the liverock contantly untile he had rubble. The noise he made all the time made me move the little cube down to the basement. After about a month or so, he managed to crack the little Azoo acrylic cube and I decided to get rid of the little bugger and put it up for adoption here on the board. I kept him in a tupperware dish at this point.
Another member came and picked him up and told me he was putting the mantis in his sump. I told him about the problems I had and he said that he's not worried at all about it.
Less than a month later this person has his sump cracked and leaking one morning and places the mantis in a mason preserve jar to keep it safe untill he returns from work and then makes arrangements to bring it in to Albert in the evening.
When he returned home from work he found a cracked mason jar with a dried up dead mantis in it. :lol:
And this was just a very small one.
True story. :)
Bahhh.
If he breaks the glass he will be even more rare as I have never heard of one actually succeed at this.
I have heard the mantis break the glass story so many times yet nobody has actually had one do it. I personally don't believe it, but I may eat my words one day.
If Stinky keeps his in a 50 gallon glass and it is o.k. I think anything is. His is a beast!
I'm with Tim on this. I think that the smashed tank story is told and retold by excited mantis fans listing all of the awesome qualities of these animals to the unconverted (I've done it myself). The result of all these combined tales is the perception that a mantis shrimp does nothing but smash glass all day. I have still never heard of a confirmed story from the source - it is always "this person had it happen". But if you say Dr. Roy had it happen then I should be able to look it up and have my first true account. Still - 1/2" acrylic? I think it would take constant, repeated attempts to burrow a hole through the acrylic. If my peacock could open up a 1mm snail without having to work on it for hours, I would put more stock in the stories.
I agree with Justin though that every precaution should be taken with a valuable animal like that. An extended power outage is a much more plausible danger.
- Chad
Edit:
Gary, I've heard your account before and have never been surprised at the little plastic breeder box or betta bowl breaking. If the crack in the sump was actually caused by the mantis, how thick was the sump glass. The mason jar couldn't have been much thicker than 1mm - even I wouldn't feel comfortable with a mantis with glass that thin :razz: - Especially such a confined space, for so long that that mantis would actually have a reason to try and get out.
Edit:
Gary, I've heard your account before and have never been surprised at the little plastic breeder box or betta bowl breaking. If the crack in the sump was actually caused by the mantis, how thick was the sump glass. The mason jar couldn't have been much thicker than 1mm - even I wouldn't feel comfortable with a mantis with glass that thin :razz: - Especially such a confined space, for so long that that mantis would actually have a reason to try and get out.
Chad,
Regardless of what the thickness of any of the materials where that the mantis managed to break, the point of my post was that they are cappable of it.
Others have said that they have heard that this happens, but have seen no proof of it.
I'm also not saying that his mantis will have the urge to whack the glass, but keep in mind that it's not the force of a projectile that always decides if the glass will break, but rather how and where the force is placed.
For example:
You might be able to throw a baseball at a pane of glass over and over again and not have it break, but one small pop from thishttp://img.epinions.com/images/opti/e5/bf/General_Tools_Pocket_Automatic_Center_Punch_87_Sho p_Tools-resized200.jpgcould make it shatter the first time.(And will shatter it the first time if it's tempered glass.)
If I was to place a bet, I'd put my money on the mantis hit being more similar to a small centre punch as apposed to a baseball.
Just my opinion though.:razz:
Psyire
03-31-2007, 10:31 PM
I consulted Dr. Roy before having my mantis tank built. He said a large peacock would have a very very hard time breaking 3/8" glass. The biggest danger to breaking glass tanks is them digging in the corners. I would suggest puckboard or starboard on the bottom underneth the sand. This would take care of this problem.
I consulted Dr. Roy before having my mantis tank built. He said a large peacock would have a very very hard time breaking 3/8" glass. The biggest danger to breaking glass tanks is them digging in the corners. I would suggest puckboard or starboard on the bottom underneth the sand. This would take care of this problem.
Hows my first peacock doing? Psyire?
By the way I use backerboard on the bottom of the tank just in the area of their burrow. It is a great idea
Gary,
That is a good point. I'm not trying to say that these animals aren't awesome and don't, for their size, pack an amazing punch.
I just wanted to quell some of the over-hype is all - we aren't talking about a 200lb guy throwing a baseball or pounding on a pane of glass with a window smashing tool-thing. We are talking about a tiny little animal that weighs only a few grams. I haven't seen my peacock strike the glass - and I'm not sure it would ever want to - but I did see my 3" g.smithii strike the 4mm side of my 2gal cube when I taunted him with a flashing cell phone (I had read that they struck at cell phones and just wanted to test it). His multiple strikes were utterly impotent even against glass as thin as that. I could see a problem though if I had him in a 30gal breeder with the same 4mm glass. If a mantis was able to break it, it would be because most of the breaking force came from the weight of the water pushing on the glass and the manits strike was merely the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. That's why I mentioned the thickness of materials - I know that mantids are capable of smashing "somethings" - Ike and Mac have sent too many snails and hermit crabs to that reef in the sky to leave any doubt about that :razz:.
With Tim having an acrylic tank - 1/2" acylic too! - he has nothing to worry about. JMO & JME
Tim,
I would be interested to know if Dr. Roy has contacted you with questions or special instructions. Are you taking any special approaches with this animal - backup power source, extra saltwater on hand, ultra premium diet?
- Chad
justinl
04-01-2007, 03:57 AM
ohhh he has an acrylic tank? lol then what the hell are we arguing about? my bad, i was under the impression the mantis was in a glass tank.
that said, a little fun fact about mantids: it's not at all like a baseball thrower or even a boxer. nope, it's more like a catapult. Mantids store energy when they **** back their raptorial appendages. See the circular marikings on the inside of their arms? they're called meral spots. These are pringle shaped rigid discs. When the raps are cocked back (like a ratchet), the "pringles" are bent and store energy like a caapult. Then they release the energy in a swing.
the end result of all that crap is the fastest animal movement recorded. Big ones like a large peacock can generate forces up to 1400N... about the same as a .22 caliber rifle bullet at muzzle velocity (before anyone asks, Dr. Roy said that himself). G. smithii, a much smaller mantis could not, of course, ever produce even close to this force. Oddly enough, a mantis quite a bit smaller than a peacock, G. chiragra, can produce glass shattering forces too.
the movement is so fast, it causes cavitation bubbles. The speed of the movement essentially vaporizes the water in front of the rap and boils it. When the swing slows, the bubble collapses and produces a "whack" load of force. These cavitation bubbles are what cause most of the force of a mantis' blow.
my long winded point is that you can't really compare mantids to humans or many other animals... they're just ridiculously highly evolved.
With Tim having an acrylic tank - 1/2" acylic too! - he has nothing to worry about. JMO & JME
- Chad
After reading this post, I too was of the understanding that this mantis will be housed in a glass tank.
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=243782&postcount=12
You must have some other info that Justin and I both missed somehow.
Sorry Justin and Gary, my bad. I don't know where I got acrylic from...
- Chad
justinl
04-01-2007, 05:29 AM
no worries chad.
hey rudy, I just want to say that I don't mean to take over this thread or order you around in terms of how you house your mantis. I just really want this mantis to do well because he is so rare. It'd be such a shame for it to die prematurely. so yeah... apologies if you're hating me right now.
i guess im sorta living vicariously. if you want me to back off, just let me know.
I am not offended, hurt, any anything else about this thread.
The fact is that for the first month I have a big chance of losing this guy period so there is no way I am going to go acrylic on something this small (in comparison), but there is no way I was going to let him stay in a 14 gallon regardless.
We will see. I will tell you that this mantis may as well not even have a burrow. It is by far the most "out and about" mantis I have owned other than my ciliata which fricken died yesterday. :(
http://s168.photobucket.com/albums/u198/rudykane/
Here are some new pics of him in a 56 gallon (his new home). There is also a shot of the tank. I would tell you where his cave it however in all honesty he does not really have one. he is always out. I wonder about his as he is a deep water mantis whether they are more inclined to hang out side their den.
His death toll is 3 damsels, 2 hairy crabs and a ton of snails. The damsel stalks are amazing
justinl
04-02-2007, 03:28 PM
wow nice kill list! sounds like a feisty one.
seems like he's a happpy camper and getting used to all the space and is doing very well. I want one *pout*
Delphinus
04-02-2007, 04:34 PM
Were it not for the fact that I fear that it would also de-fish, de-urchinize and de-snail my tank, I'd be asking one of you mantis owners to rent me a mantis to de-crab my cube tank (well.. maybe not the über-rare 15 million dollar mantis mind you, but one of the others maybe..). (Worst infestation I've ever seen in a tank :( At 30" deep with no rock moving option thanks to a 24" anemone, it's impossible to manually remove them. And traps only seem to catch my cleaner shrimp :neutral:) ... Oh well.
Neat that you have such a rare one.. who'dda thunk it .. usually all the rare stuff ends up in the U.S. or Vancouver...
Were it not for the fact that I fear that it would also de-fish, de-urchinize and de-snail my tank, I'd be asking one of you mantis owners to rent me a mantis to de-crab my cube tank (well.. maybe not the über-rare 15 million dollar mantis mind you, but one of the others maybe..). (Worst infestation I've ever seen in a tank :( At 30" deep with no rock moving option thanks to a 24" anemone, it's impossible to manually remove them. And traps only seem to catch my cleaner shrimp :neutral:) ... Oh well.
Neat that you have such a rare one.. who'dda thunk it .. usually all the rare stuff ends up in the U.S. or Vancouver...
I would love those crabs Tony!
Ocean City is doing some incredible invert orders these days.
Delphinus
04-02-2007, 05:18 PM
I have no idea how to get them out, otherwise yeah, you'd have at least a dozen little snacks ranging in size from 1/4" to about 1.5" .. I'd love to try a "biological control" but a trigger is probably too messy with the sand in the tank, I've been told an eel probably wouldn't do it, an octopus probably would but the tank is *nowhere* near octopus-safe, that leaves a mantis but then I guess the snails, shrimp (cleaners and peppermints), urchins and fish would have to be moved to a different tank?
justinl
04-03-2007, 12:26 AM
tony, yeah your other stuff would have to be moved and once you had the mantis in there... well It's a LOT harder to remove a mantis than any crab.
lol 15million dollar mantis... that he got for free!
tony, yeah your other stuff would have to be moved and once you had the mantis in there... well It's a LOT harder to remove a mantis than any crab.
lol 15million dollar mantis... that he got for free!
Free?? Nope. Good deal but not free.
justinl
04-03-2007, 03:03 AM
oh my bad. I thought you got it free.
how is it doing? Still going without a burrow?
oh my bad. I thought you got it free.
how is it doing? Still going without a burrow?
Yep...doing good cool as a mantis
I have no idea how to get them out, otherwise yeah, you'd have at least a dozen little snacks ranging in size from 1/4" to about 1.5" .. I'd love to try a "biological control" but a trigger is probably too messy with the sand in the tank, I've been told an eel probably wouldn't do it, an octopus probably would but the tank is *nowhere* near octopus-safe, that leaves a mantis but then I guess the snails, shrimp (cleaners and peppermints), urchins and fish would have to be moved to a different tank?
My freshwater moray would probably do it, but I couldn't guarantee he wouldn't take out the snails and fish as well. Unfortunately, that's the problem with using a biological control.
As for Rudy's mantis? I just keep wondering how many people have skewered or smashed with a hammer some really interesting things they have found in their tank.
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