Gyre Nano

[kwirky]

http://www.kwirky88.com/images/aquarium/07-03-27/gyredone.jpg

I did it! I built my gyre nano tonight! I'm waiting for the silicone to dry. I won't have time to video tape it tomorrow, but in a few days I'll post a video of how crazy this design can ramp up water flow. Yesterday I was playing with the dividers without siliconing them, just holding them, and it was indescribable how well the water looped around, building up momentum. I'm just itching to put water in it tomorrow and play :)

It's going to be an SPS tank. Don't know whether to use 2' T5, or a single 250W MH. I already have T5's on my 120g, so I'm thinking of trying MH out on this. The platform gives a display area of 24x12x12". The 12" depth makes it perfect for a strictly SPS tank

Can anyone think of anything that's neutrally bouyant to put in the water to show the movement? I'm thinking crushed egg shells would work probably.

[andresont]

Can anyone think of anything that's neutrally bouyant to put in the water to show the movement? I'm thinking crushed egg shells would work probably.[/QUOTE]

Sigarette ash could be easyer to clean up compare to egg shells imo.

[kwirky]

here's a low quality video of it in action. I just filled it up and left the various krud in there to use as material showing the flow. It was done with my w810i phone, so it's not the greatest quality. I'm going to book a video camera from the college tonight if I can remember, and then put a good video on youtube.

It's so cool, how WIDE the water flow is. It's like a top to bottom water column with just a little bit more flow at the top. I'm going to put two more maxijets in, on the other side, and they'll alternate, two at a time, the water flow every 15 minutes, hopefully aleviating dead spots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOCOnxOnwsI

[BCOrchidGuy]

Very cool, very very cool. I was thinking Rio17HF (lol) I had one in my 155 gallon and it blew the sand off the bottom of the other end (5ft away).

I really like it, I think it's a cool idea, well done.

Doug

[kwirky]

Very cool, very very cool. I was thinking Rio17HF (lol) I had one in my 155 gallon and it blew the sand off the bottom of the other end (5ft away).

I really like it, I think it's a cool idea, well done.

Doug

yeah, I almost crapped my pants when it worked like I thought it would :mrgreen: . The video's not that great, and doesn't really show that the entire water column above the plate is moving as one giant mass. I'm booking a video camera after class tomorrow to get a good recording of it.

About 20 minutes ago, I put some base rock I put in the tank on top of the platform and the water just continued flowing; the rocks didn't really break up the momentum. Was neat, because the article explained that your rock would create the turbulence the corals need, which is exactly what I saw :)

I'm also thinking the potential of a tank designed like this might allow one to use thinner glass for the side panels. Anyone think it's a stretch to build a tank like this that's 48" long, 2' tall and 18" wide using 1/4" glass? The center plate would give about 18" of height and 3' of width to the display area. I think it would still be quite strong, and only require stronger floor pane of the tank. It would be technically a 90g tank, but built with 1/4" glass, and maybe a thicker glass for the bottom. It would give 50g of display space, and could be integrated into the stand somehow.

I remember seeing the guys on mythbuster creating a water gyre tank to simulate the aerodynamics of a pickup truck.

[kwirky]

ok here's a better video. not mac compatible :)

www.kwirky88.com/video/gyretank.wmv

[Delphinus]

That is cool. I've always wondered about doing something like that except I was thinking of having it horizontal instead of vertical. (Seen some displays at public aquariums like that.)

If you could find an appropriate timer control, wouldn't it be awesome to have 2 pairs of powerheads, a pair on each side, and have them alternate every 20-30 seconds? A wavemaker might work as long as you could try various settings to find the optimal setting because I assume it takes a few seconds for the water speed to ramp up, and it would be worse if it had to change directions on top of that. But imagine how amazing that would be ...

[kwirky]

I plan on doing exactly that once the rock is cycled. I'm going to run two more on the other side, and initially switch them every 15 minutes using a coralife light timer I already have.

I've been trying to figure out exactly how some of the wavemakers work. I need one that I can set the interval the pumps are run. Most pulsate and stuff, while I just need to switch back and forth.

by the way, it takes about 15 seconds for it to get to full speed from a stopped state. Don't know how long if it was running the opposite direction, though. I've considered I can get exact control of the water flow just by lowering the timer. The shorter the timer, the less flow the tank gets.

I'm using the rocks' cycling time as a delay for buying the other two pumps and deciding on my lighting :)

I've got a 150W MH ballast/bulb that needs a pendant/fixture, but it's not enough for sps, probably. The water's only 12" deep, but I still think it might not be enough. I could go T5's, but then they'd only be useful again for another 1'x2' tank. I considered T5 retrofit with an icecap 660. The endcaps and ballast could be reused. Or a 250W MH. it could be reused on another tank down the road too.

I don't forsee this tank running for longer than a year probably, as I'll likely upgrade it to a larger size if I run into disposable money or something heh.

[andresont]

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/1/aafeature
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/1/aafeature_album/figure2.jpg


Figure 2 is an example of a horizontal gyre tank which I built for stony coral culture. The aquarium is 33 gallons, 4 feet long, 14 inches wide and 12 inches tall. The divider was made out of two pieces of dark plexiglass which were overlapped in the center. Both pieces of the divider were unattached and I found that I could vary the speed of the water flow by adjusting the distance of the gap between the divider and end faces of the aquarium glass. The water movement was provided by one Seio 820 pump on one side and two Maxi-jet 1200’s on the other side. A Chauvet light timer was used to alternate power between the pumps for 5 to 15 minutes to each side. Since the water flow was so unidirectional in this long aquarium, it was very simple to measure flow speed. Water velocity was calculated by adding neutrally buoyant particles to the water and timing how long it took for them to travel across a distance of the aquarium. Using this technique I was able to measure water flow speeds between 15-22cm/s throughout the entire aquarium. These velocities are within the range of ideal flow speeds for optimum particle capture, respiration and photosynthesis of many corals. Figure 3 is an image of a vertical gyre tank built and designed my Michael Janes of Aquatouch. Mr Janes is an octocoral specialist and he refers to his design as a laminar flow tank. He designed the aquarium to produce ideal flow conditions while still maintaining enough vertical space to accommodate tall soft coral species such as gorgonians. Although this aquarium was designed primarily as a proof of concept, Mr. Janes continues to work with this type of gyre tank for studying octocoral species.

[kwirky]

so you're jake adams? cool :) I was trying to figure out how to get ahold of you through e-mail or something. Was sifting through the advancedaquarist website looking for contact information. That article is exactly the one that made me want to build a gyre tank :)

Yeah, after building it, it's totaly a beneficial design of an aquarium for waterflow. I liked the idea of the horizontal plate rather than the verticle plate because it would require less floor space. I'm quite curious about what you used as a neutrally bouyant material?

And have you ever had problems with the seio on the 5 minute timer? Was trying to find info on what happens to them when they're on wavemakers. Most people say they end up dieing in about a year, or only start up some of the cycles after about 2 months.

I really like the term "cm/second" rather than "gallons/hour", because that's a much more practical way to provide a quantitative requirement for flow, considering so many people's flow patterns are different in their own tanks. I think it would be a good way to describe desired water flow to somone new to the hobby, and doesn't know how to point their powerheads and such.

[Delphinus]

Um .. I think andresont just quoted the article, ie isn't the actual author. ;)

[kwirky]

Um .. I think andresont just quoted the article, ie isn't the actual author. ;)

oops! now I'm embarassed :redface:

[Delphinus]

Well I'm sort of intruigued by this idea now. What timer do you suppose you could use on a set of alternating pumps?

Also, in answer to an earlier question you had .. I dunno, 150W over 12" depth might actually be enough, espescially since it's really <12" due to the rockwork involved. Maybe it's worth a shot? If all you need is a pendent, run over to HD and get a 500W halogen floodlamp, they are like $15 and should fit the bulb. Only problem is you'll need to replace the sockets as they don't fit the 150W'ers, only the 70W'ers.

[kwirky]

Well I'm sort of intruigued by this idea now. What timer do you suppose you could use on a set of alternating pumps?

Also, in answer to an earlier question you had .. I dunno, 150W over 12" depth might actually be enough, espescially since it's really <12" due to the rockwork involved. Maybe it's worth a shot? If all you need is a pendent, run over to HD and get a 500W halogen floodlamp, they are like $15 and should fit the bulb. Only problem is you'll need to replace the sockets as they don't fit the 150W'ers, only the 70W'ers.

The timer, I'm starting to think, will probably have to be some DIY kinda job using a 555 timer or the likes. I think i'd try to design it so that one timer mechanism switches between the two pumps at a variable interval (like from 5 seconds to 15 minutes), and another timer can be run at the press of a button, switching off the pumps for a set time period for feeding.

I found a good write-up on how a 555 timer works here. Quite an involved reading, but I like learning ;).

http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/555/555.html

As for the lighting, I think I agree. I actually have a 500W halogen fixture I've already modded to take the bulb. I was worried about using it because it wouldn't fit the bulb "nipple up", but I cut some more out of it last night, and now it goes in properly. Fires up quite bright. I have a thread on the MH fixture mod somewhere in the DIY, just gotta do a search.

It's a giesseman 13k, which is an absolute PAR monster, so I think it should be fine for SPS at the depth. Only thing is, the water's so shalow that the shimmer shadows are EXTREMELY pronounced. It's like shimmers of bright white and dark black. Very deep shadows amongst the rockwork, too, because the light's so close to the rocks.

Think it'll still be brightly lit enough if the fixture was 12" from the water surface?

[andresont]

oops! now I'm embarassed :redface:
i apologize i should have noted that it is a quote

[Delphinus]

Tried reading the link on the 555 timer - :eek: Definitely way beyond me. If you end up attempting something like that please keep us apprised of the steps you take and what not..

[kwirky]

I found the right timer :D

A Chauvet light timer.

http://www.chauvetlighting.com/fixtures/images/sf-4005.jpg

http://www.chauvetlighting.com/fixtures/24chtimer_fix.shtml

You can set it from 1 second to 60 seconds, or 1 minute to 15 minutes. It can alternate between the two pumps. Goes for 'bout $30 on ebay. It's used for theatrical lighting applications. I'm going to call around the city tomorrow looking for one. Can't see it being more than $50 canadian. none of the e-bayers ship to canada, it seems :sad:

I'm going to play with a 555 timer simultaneously. I work at the source, and I'll just pick up a 555 from my store and play with it for learning's sake.

[Delphinus]

Dumb question maybe - what about something like this? Says it's adjustable from 20 seconds to 3 minutes and has alternating outputs..
http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/details/wavemakers.php?product_ID=wm-nwt

[kwirky]

Dumb question maybe - what about something like this? Says it's adjustable from 20 seconds to 3 minutes and has alternating outputs..
http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/details/wavemakers.php?product_ID=wm-nwt

dang it. I'm $10 short to order J&L's package that includes 3 MJ 1200's. stupid student credit card with stupid $500 limit... Looks like I gotta do another bill payment of like $20 lol.

[Delphinus]

Would you need the extra powerheads though? Surely there are some lying around town someone would sell ya for cheap if you needed some more.

I found the info about it being adjustable from 20sec to 3min on a different page, I just linked to the J&L page for simplicity. If you go to aquariumsystems.com and click Saltwater and then Accessories there's a blurb where it's mentioned in passing about the adjustability. (I'd just link the URL but the webpage is this primitive frame based thing and the URL doesn't show up properly).

[michika]

The whole set up is pretty damn cool! I'm tagging along!

[Kryten]

Dumb question maybe - what about something like this? Says it's adjustable from 20 seconds to 3 minutes and has alternating outputs..
http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/details/wavemakers.php?product_ID=wm-nwt

I bought one of these used. Maybe it was a quasi-lemon, but it wouldn't run anything other than a brand new maxijet. Older ones or other brands of powerhead it just didn't seem to have enough juice to turn on (on the switched outlets).

[BCOrchidGuy]

I've used these timer/wavemakers twice and they were awesome. I used them with hagen powerheads, 801s plus Pro4s and Rio 2500's I never had a powerhead not work with them. I would have used one again but I've read Seios don't do well with on/off cycles IE a timer and I really don't want to spend $200 on a Seio controller. For now things seem to be working with two 620's on 24/7 and an 820 that comes on when the Halide comes on.

Doug

[Midknight]

I bought one of these used. Maybe it was a quasi-lemon, but it wouldn't run anything other than a brand new maxijet. Older ones or other brands of powerhead it just didn't seem to have enough juice to turn on (on the switched outlets).

Strange, I bought 2 used ones and neither ran the pumps I have. Never though of getting new pumps to test. :redface:
Maybe will try that tomorrow.

[kwirky]

well i went out and bought a 555 timer and a bunch of caps n resistors n such, and a breadboard to prototype it with. I'm going to try to DIY one first. Too late to start working on it tonight, but I'll post my progress as I go.

[kwirky]

woot! it's up and running. lots of DIY on this system :D

Right now it's a mj1200 on each end still on the 15 minute coralife light timer. They alternate 15 minutes each.

I'm just about done soldering up my DIY wave maker. It's done with a 555 timer, and it's adjustable from 4 seconds to 60 seconds. When the wavemaker's ready, I'll be getting 2 more MJ's (one on each end) and I'll probably alternate it 10 seconds per side.

These are the parts I used for the 555 timer wavemaker:
555 timer
2 x 10uF tantalum capacitors (for timing capacitor, ran in parallel to work as a 20uF capacitor)
0.01uF tantalum capacitor
5.6kohm resistor as R1
R2 consists of the following in series:
200kohm resistor (always on)
1mohm pot
2x1mohm resistors on switches

high speed 2A diode as snubber for relay
125VAC 3A DPDT relay

here's the program that gave me the calculations nessesary and the schematic to use the components:
http://555-timer.clarkson-uk.com/program.html

After I get the alternating wavemaker going, I'll make a second device that'll turn off the pumps for 8 minutes at the touch of a button, then turn them back on automatically.

It's tapped into my 120g's sump, and a 100gph pump feeds the gyre-nano from the sump. There's a 150W stealth heater hidden under the platform as backup heating because of the low flow to the sump.

But here are some pictures in the mean time. It's lit with a 150W HQI giesseman 13k megachrome marine. the PAR of the best 10k's, but with a true 10k colour. It's a DIY pendant from a 500W halogen outdoor fixture. I really like how it's hung. If there's interest, I'll let anyone know how I modified the light to work as a pendant.

http://www.kwirky88.com/images/aquarium/07-04-10/gyrefullshot.jpg

http://www.kwirky88.com/images/aquarium/07-04-10/gyrecropped.jpg

[Delphinus]

That's really awesome. I'd love to try something like that for a gorg tank. .. One day ...

Question (slightly off topic), can the 555 timer idea have different on/off settings, or do the on/off settings have to match? I.e. can you do 10 seconds on, 5 minutes off, kind of thing?

[kwirky]

That's really awesome. I'd love to try something like that for a gorg tank. .. One day ...

Question (slightly off topic), can the 555 timer idea have different on/off settings, or do the on/off settings have to match? I.e. can you do 10 seconds on, 5 minutes off, kind of thing?

actually a 555's perfect for that. they call the ratio between on/off the "duty cycle" and a 555 timer can theoretically never run exactly 50% between the two. Download that program in the previous post, go to the Astable tab, and play with the two resistor settings (remember the slider bars change the resistors to a finer degree).

You could get it to run exactly 10 seconds on, 5 minutes off, by increasing the size of the capacitor, and then changing the ratio between the two resistors.

You would use a 470uF capacitor, a 2.0mohm resistor as resistor A, and a 15kohm resistor for resistor B.

Thinking of using something like that for dosing or the likes?

I'm thinking if I increased the number of MJ's to a crazy ammount, I could use quick 5 second alternations between the sets, and have some REALLY cool turbulent movement in the upper region of the tank :D

[Delphinus]

Yeah, dosing was one application I was thinking, another was an automatic misting of my mangroves (they need to be misted routinely to flush the salt sweat, and lately I'm getting lazier and lazier about that task). A full on minute of misting from mist nozzles would be way too much. But I dunno, it would have to be an inordinate ratio of difference for that specific application (ie. more like 10 seconds on, 6 hours off).

Most of that 555 timer info, I did give it a fair try to read it, but a lot of it was basically like reading Greek. I did do some hardware back in my early days but I'm just a s/w guy these days.

[kwirky]

soldering the circuit board and making cut-outs in the project box is turning out to be quite labour intensive. I think with the ammount of time that's gone into the wavemaker project so far, the advice I'd have to give to anyone would be to make sure it's an important thing you want if you're designing custom circuitry and have never done electronics before :). There was a lot for me to learn.

Plus cost. I think I've spent about $100 in various things to get the ting working. I could build another one after this for about $20 in components though, as most of the $100 was in tools and incorrect/unessesary components.


The potential of DIY electronics is exciting though. Been reading about some people who've used programmable IC's to make some stuff as advanced as the profilux equipment (minus the web server). T5 dimmers, pump frequency oscilators, stuff like that.

I had a friend who was learning about electronics along side me, helping prototype the circuit. He was thinking of all sorts of crazy stuff to use electronics for in his own home theater hobby, too.

[kwirky]

So I've begun moving some of my LPS into the nano tank. I've decided it's a good area to raise SPS without my shrimp and fish stealing the food. I'll be able to feed them more regularily and the 150W lighting is almost perfect for them. The water flow makes them look quite appealing too.

So there's a zoo rock in the tank, and my frogspawn. I'm debating whether to bust a chunk off my xenia rock to seed the nano. It would look nice as well in the water column.

[BCOrchidGuy]

I just did a small feeble take off on your set up in a 10 gallon, the xenia seems to be loving it as does the mushroom rock, thanks for the idea, I think I'll pick up a decent power head sometime soon and take a good look at doing it right.

Doug

[kwirky]

sweet :)

I broke down and busted a small chunk off my xenia rock. They appear to love the solid water flow too.

I'm trying to source out black acrylic at a good price. Thinking of covering the front with a piece of black acrylic that's routered out to leave the display area open.

[kwirky]

so it's practically done, and I want to set up a propagation system of about 3 tanks in total on a rack, but the mammy says I can't take any more floor space, even though we have loads of space down in the basement here :neutral:

I really want to do a propagation system in order for the hobby to pay for itself, but then I'd have to take down this gyre tank :(

I'm really torn over which to do.