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X-Treme
03-11-2007, 04:39 PM
Is there such thing as OVER-skimming a tank? I have a 35ish gallon custom with 2 sieo 820's on restricted flow and looking to add a Remora Pro. Want to keep LPS, SPS, softies, clam(s).....basically anything that might catch my eye. Opinions?

albert_dao
03-11-2007, 05:07 PM
Nope.

Chin_Lee
03-11-2007, 05:31 PM
there is a variety of opinions out there but my opinion is unless you can make your water as clean as NSW, my answer is also nope because our livestock to water ratio in our closed system is incredibly high compared to that of the ocean's. Therefore dissolved organics wastes will always be significantly higher in our closed aquariums.

KrazyKuch
03-11-2007, 10:46 PM
I say no aswell......cause bascially you can't over skim, cause if their is no dissolved orangic waste in the water then your skimmer won't pull anything out!!

Reefer Rob
03-12-2007, 01:55 AM
KrazyKuch hit it on the head. Skim big! You'll be glad you did. (a remora pro isn't over skimming)

briansmyth
03-12-2007, 02:37 AM
"any skimming over that required to maintain low levels of organic and inorganic pollutants is overskimming. Why? Because if the water is cleared of those things that are detrimental, it is also likely to be equally cleared of things that are beneficial."

Just finished reading about this recently, so have the link close at hand - hope this adds to all our total knowledge. Eric Borneman actually suggests shutting off your skimmer for part of the day!

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-01/eb/index.php

Reefer Rob
03-12-2007, 02:57 AM
Borneman often speaks "theoretically" in his articles. I have never read about, or seen any any tanks suffering from "overskimming". On the contrary, there are many beautiful tanks that "overskim" and even employ 2 skimmers! Corals in the wild live in very nutrient poor water.

andresont
03-12-2007, 03:23 AM
I would buy the biggest skimmer your set up can take. For me also a quietness and power consaption is a big factor. I like Tunze skimmers 230 and bigger one 240 very nice and quiet, the only drawback is you need a sump with constant water level.
I have never seen, talked or herd of anybody who would say : "yea i need a smoller skimmer"

Look under the display cabinet of you LFS and see what they have there...
J&L has skimmer rated 10 times their tank volume.

EmilyB
03-12-2007, 05:24 AM
I could be wrong but from what I remember of hearing Borneman in Seattle, he never ran a skimmer....so how would he know anyway??

Tarolisol
03-12-2007, 05:38 AM
No




:p

andresont
03-12-2007, 08:39 AM
I could be wrong but from what I remember of hearing Borneman in Seattle, he never ran a skimmer....so how would he know anyway??

LMAOL !

albert_dao
03-12-2007, 08:56 AM
I could be wrong but from what I remember of hearing Borneman in Seattle, he never ran a skimmer....so how would he know anyway??

Everyone, especially the SPS guys, get rid of your skimmers ASAP! By decree of Borneman, they are unecessary and, more than likely, harmful for your systems! Heed or be overtaken by low nutrients and colorful corals!

michika
03-12-2007, 07:03 PM
lol :D

Dale
03-13-2007, 08:14 AM
I will take the opposing view and say YES you can definately overskim. So there :p
To answer the question properly you have to consider the livestock being kept.
The question is relative to the proposed inhabitants of the tank. There is no "one size fits all" approach. Most people who subscribe to aggressive skimming keep SPS corals primarily. They rely on high intensity lighting for photosynthesis and want to avoid any free nutrients as a possible food source for algae (which SPS cannot defend against).
However, if you are considering a softie tank, or clams and other filter feeders, overskimming will most definately lead to starvation. Many of these organisms thrive in nutrient rich waters.
Trying to mix SPS, softies and clams/filter feeders can be a difficult and/or expensive proposition. You either have a naturally nutrient rich tank (and battle the occasional algae outbreak on SPS) or you overskim, constantly dose nutrients for the others and then just skim them right back out again.

andresont
03-13-2007, 08:36 AM
I will take the opposing view and say YES you can definately overskim. So there :p
To answer the question properly you have to consider the livestock being kept.
The question is relative to the proposed inhabitants of the tank. There is no "one size fits all" approach. Most people who subscribe to aggressive skimming keep SPS corals primarily. They rely on high intensity lighting for photosynthesis and want to avoid any free nutrients as a possible food source for algae (which SPS cannot defend against).
However, if you are considering a softie tank, or clams and other filter feeders, overskimming will most definately lead to starvation. Many of these organisms thrive in nutrient rich waters.
Trying to mix SPS, softies and clams/filter feeders can be a difficult and/or expensive proposition. You either have a naturally nutrient rich tank (and battle the occasional algae outbreak on SPS) or you overskim, constantly dose nutrients for the others and then just skim them right back out again.
I would rather over skim and target feed all my live stock including SPS and filter filders.
Mixing as mentioned above is what we (reefers) are good at :)
It is sooo much easier to feed than to skimm don't you agree?
Whats cost of food compare to a tank full of algae?
Well... as was wrong before so this is jmo.

kwirky
03-13-2007, 05:57 PM
how old's the tank? The guys on the nano-reefer forum don't bother with skimmers on tanks up to 50 gallons. The cost of doing frequent water changes is tiny on a small tank, and is usually just as effective. some of those guys do twice-a-week changes of 15% each and have absolutely stunning sps tanks.

The tank's only 33 gallons, and a remora's for something round 66 gallons. I think it's a waste of money because of the price curve. spending $180 for 33g of water, compared to $300 for 120g of water on a larger system. Except for cycling liverock. would make cycling live rock less smelly and significant others less whiney :)

Jaws
03-13-2007, 06:03 PM
I've read that overskimming can remove some of the beneficial nutrients and elements in your tank so if you are going to overskim then make sure you do regular water changes to help replenish what is removed. You should always do regular water changes anyways so it's kind of redundant. JMO.

Kronk
03-13-2007, 11:45 PM
Skim the shiznit out of your tank unless your keeping a propagation tank for softies or sponges... how does anyone say its not necessary just look at a collection cup of skimmate, smell it and then tell me you'd want to breathe in that nastiness... for the health of the fish get a skimmer.

Quagmire
03-13-2007, 11:59 PM
Ok so good question,but here's a better one. What does skimming remove?:razz:
We can't answer the first without knowing the second.OK so we all know they remove DOC,and free algea.But what else is skimmed out?
I just reconnected my RS135 to my 40g after running skimmerless/sumpless all winter.I guess that would be at least considered heavy skimming.
Skimmerless is good as long as your willing to do large weekly water changes.

Kronk
03-14-2007, 03:55 AM
There are about a billion threads or so on different forums about this subject and none of the ones i have read can prove that any elements are removed by skimming. I did read something about calcium but i cant remember... anyways skimming should not be used as a replacement for water changes. But some people have had success using the sugar or vodka method in tanks with softies.

kwirky
03-14-2007, 04:08 AM
There are about a billion threads or so on different forums about this subject and none of the ones i have read can prove that any elements are removed by skimming. I did read something about calcium but i cant remember... anyways skimming should not be used as a replacement for water changes. But some people have had success using the sugar or vodka method in tanks with softies.

and then there's zeovit; who's running that and has seen a noticable difference? I know, kinda off topic, and zeovit REQUIRES a skimmer, but I'm curious, since we're already on a debatable subject.

Reefer Rob
03-14-2007, 04:10 AM
Carbon dosing (sugar etc) and aggressive skimming:mrgreen: are most often used on sps tanks to achieve the low nutrient levels required by these corals. It is the basis for Zeovit, Prodibio etc. Water changes are to balance the elements in your water that may get depleted with time. Doing water changes to reduce nitrates is expensive, time consuming, and a loosing battle IMO. Better to buy a bigger skimmer!

Kronk
03-14-2007, 04:50 AM
word

Dale
03-14-2007, 05:10 AM
To play the devils advocate

Again, some of the discussion is based on peoples personal preferences and not with the livestock selection in the tank. There should really be the caveat "if you keep this, you should do this" in order to be accurate.

Will one be successful with SPS species if one strips the water column of nutrients?

Will one be successful with filter feeders like feather dusters, clams, certain softies, sponges etc... if one strips the water column of nutrients?

Dosing and stripping is fine for a smaller aquarium but what if you have a 200 - 300 gallon system?
I say this from my own experience in creating a coldwater set up. I naturally built a very efficient skimmer (keep er clean) and then began stocking native species, primarily filter feeding flora and fauna... Oops! This (ought to have been obvious) revelation caused me to take a step back and rethink the whole filtration regime.
I'm not saying I have all the answers - just that I know there are a couple o more questions I need to answer first.

Ok, the devils had enough of my time already :mrgreen:

X-Treme
03-14-2007, 05:15 AM
I only have a 35ish gallon. I stated this in the very first post. I could care less about a 200 gallon aquarium.:redface:

Dale
03-14-2007, 06:19 AM
My comments were for general forum discussion sake and not directed to your situation specifically - though most of those points do pertain to all aquarium sizes to some degree.
I guess the biggest problem I see with your particular situation is the idea of keeping anything that catches your eye in the tank. Most of my thoughts on this subject are based on the premise that different species need different approaches to filtration.
Either that makes sense or it doesn't.
Specifically, I've heard the best reviews for the remoras of all the HOB skimmers that might service that size of tank.