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EmilyB
02-22-2007, 05:16 AM
I don't think I've ever been this close to calling it quits after eight years in the hobby.

My FOWLR is a $*&$^%_) mess, we've been without any real circulation for so long, and the battle with the cyano and seeing the amount of detritus in there is giving me nightmares.

My 67g is finally my good growing SPS tank, and now I have flatworms, and aiptasia going nuts.

I'm tired. I'd like a holiday.

We don't have the tech knowledge we need to, and it doesn't seem there is anyone out there reliable enough to hire to solve our equipment maintenance problems. We buy things, like the mixing station from medican, but then we have no idea how to hook it up.

I'm frustrated, sick and tired. :cry:

Delphinus
02-22-2007, 05:45 AM
I'm not sure what to say. To be honest I feel your pain so I'm the worst person to give a pep talk. I plod on some days because it's easier than taking a stand. 9 years in the hobby for me now too. Moving my tanks when I moved was the worst thing I could ever have done because I took one of the nicest tanks I ever saw and made it one of the worst tanks I ever saw. Three years later I still don't have the problems licked. I don't know what to fix when I don't know what the problem is. It's like a tank gets to an age and it just can't sustain itself anymore. At least some things do OK but I miss my tank when it looked like this:
http://members.shaw.ca/hobiesailor/aquaria/tankshots/75g.jpg

It hasn't looked like that in a long time. :(

I try to remember to focus on the things that are working, but it's hard not to notice the things that aren't. At least there are things that do make it worthwhile still, otherwise the towel would have been thrown in already.

Hang in there for now. Things always seem the worst before they start to get better. If you need help, ask. We're in this together.

Ken
02-22-2007, 06:14 AM
Hi Deb, so sorry to hear news like that. I've been in the hobby for over 30 years, my life revolves around aquariums, whether it is mine or my maintenance client's tanks or even friends tank. It is part of my life, every days bring challenges and new things to learn and discovered. Everyone on this board brings excitement and joy as they share their aquariums with us. The good and the bad, we are always constantly battling it. We have support from everyone here. You have invested in 8 years of a great hobby that I can't imagine myself in giving up on. I read many of your posts and I can feel the passion you have in your aquarium and the sucess you have in keeping your fishes. Can you not find a maintenance company to help you when it gets overwhelmed? Many of my clients love their aquarium but leave the maintenance to us. What about downsizing to perhaps a small tank? I wish I was closer to you, so I could help you out, or perhaps someone close to you, like another member that is willing to help you out once in a while. Sometimes the simple system designs are the easier to look after. Your passion of 8 years in this hobby is most respected by me. Here wishing luck in whatever decision you have. Regards Ken

woodcarver
02-22-2007, 06:44 AM
Hey EmilyB , I see from the previous post, you are Deb. I have not posted much but have been logging on for quite a while now and getting info for my eventual return to S.W.
I have regarded you as a regular contributor and have greatly appreciated your input , generously shared knowledge and experiences.
Your predicament is understandable and very stressful. I just hope you can hang in there and bring things around.
Good luck .........................Dave

Beverly
02-22-2007, 03:54 PM
OMG, I'm totally frustrated with our 120g as well. Not only do we have some unknown type of slimy-type, baby-poop coloured algae that's slowly spreading, but all of a sudden we have 1/4" hair algae on the back glass and on the BB. I've got 50 snails coming that will hopefully clear up the hair algae, but who even knows what the slimy stuff is??!?

We have done two weekly 10% water changes last week instead of the weekly 15%, and may continue to do two per week in the coming weeks.

Also, we've been having various species of valonia show up in small patches. I HATE valonia :twised: It can take over a whole tank in no time :twised: So, every few weeks, we take down one side of the tank or the other, and chip off a small chunk of rock the valonia's growing on, so the valonia doesn't break and spread even further :twised:

And for the past two weeks, our fairy wrasse won't even swim on the left side of the tank. This fish OWNED the tank, but for some reason he's not swimming around like he used to. He eats well, but he's just not his old self. Husband thinks he may have been stung by the two BTAs on the left side, but that just doesn't explain his not revelling in the caves on that side of the tank well below the BTAs :sad:

My FOWLR is a $*&$^%_) mess, we've been without any real circulation for so long, and the battle with the cyano and seeing the amount of detritus in there is giving me nightmares.

Is your FOWLR BB? If so, weekly siphoning will remove the detritus down to manageable levels. Make sure to baste the crud off the rock and from under the rock structures for best removal. If not, have you considered going BB to decrease detritus? I know it's a lot of work going BB, but in the end, you may have helped solved some problems.

And why not add a powerhead or two to increase circulation? That sounds like a pretty easy fix :)

My 67g is finally my good growing SPS tank, and now I have flatworms, and aiptasia going nuts.

Ack! Flatworms are horrible. Have you tried Flatworm Exit?

We have some teeny aiptasia on one of our rocks. They're not big enough yet, but soon I will be injecting them with calcium chloride to get rid of them.

Taken all together, all the problems you describe sound overwhelming :( But taken one at a time, you can probably tackle them all and come out the other end with new problems to solve :razz: :wink: I think that's the way it is when we're reefing so long.

Good luck :)

Skimmer Juice
02-22-2007, 04:41 PM
Sounds like you are not spending enough time on your tanks. Apatasia is an easy problem to solve, so is cyano. I have a fowlr with 3 puffers and a giant parrot wrasse. No problems, you just need to spend more time caring for your fish. Take some time to clean your tank.

Delphinus
02-22-2007, 05:41 PM
I think that's unfairly harsh. We don't know how much time someone spends on their tanks and frankly it's not really anyone else's business anyhow. Besides I don't know anyone who cares more for her fish than Deb.

When problems compound one another it can seem insurmountable. It sounds like you haven't been overwhelmed yet and for that you can consider yourself lucky. You can take all the precautions, spend all the money, and still not avoid it one day, suddenly you're looking at 2-3 (or more) problems at once and you don't know where to start tackling things.

In that case a person might need a little support or encouragement ... not a simple one line answer that says what they're doing wrong.

danny zubot
02-22-2007, 06:03 PM
I've seen a few tanks lately that have fallen due to multiple issues, I'd hate to see another one. My best friend's tank was a valonia garden, and lost all of his lovestock due to a tank crash. In his case it was due to a lack of care, so he ripped it down. Three months later we are planning to revamp his entire system with all kinds of technology. It seems that looking at a bare tank in his house was worse than the troubled ecosystem he had before, and now he has a renewed desire to reef.

My point is don't through in the towel yet, you will regret it. Plus, once you do over come these obsticles you will have a wonderful sense of satisfaction.

Danny

christyf5
02-22-2007, 06:26 PM
Deb, I know its hard but you can't look at your problems as a whole. You have to pick your battles one at a time. Thats what I've done with my tank and you of all people know what I've gone through as well. This hobby can be the most exciting rewarding hobby and it can also be the most frustrating pain in the arse you've ever had. I wish I could get out there and help you with this.

Ok so who cares about the flatworms, as long as they aren't eating your SPS they're not the worst of your problems. Try to siphon them out during water changes otherwise leave them unless you want to try to treat with FW Exit. The aiptasia you can try nuking with joes juice or kalk. Can you take some of the really affected rocks out and deal with them by more violent means :wink: Man I hate aiptasia.

As for the flow in your big tank. Have you thought at all about making a calfo manifold? Its that rectangular shaped PVC pipe that has outlets at different spots along the way to provide flow in various areas of your tank using a powerful pump. It sits on the top of your tank. If you could ouftit it in black PVC it wouldn't be as unsightly and you might even be able to attach it right under the eurobracing somehow. It can be pretty difficult to provide flow in such a long tank esp one that is viewed on 3 sides and has pendant lighting. What about a couple of those really powerful Tunzes, the ones that put out 5000 gph or something? Have one at either end of the tank? (again hard to hide the cord at the one end). Maybe those Vortech pumps?

The detritus is hard to keep up with in some BB tanks. I know its the bane of my existence. I siphon it out and theres more the next day. My fish are like cows, churnin out the poop. I can't keep up with it (stinky you are NOT allowed to comment here :razz:). You just learn to live with it I guess.

Lets face it, we're our own worst critics when it comes to our tanks. Everyone else thinks they're great but all we can see is the bad stuff that we'd like to change or problems with the tank we'd like to solve. Why not have a reef meeting at your house? At least that way people can come over and make you feel better with their praise :razz:

Matt
02-22-2007, 06:28 PM
It is hard for a lot of us right now it seems. Deb, you have my sympathy. I'm also a bit frustrated at the moment. A year ago, it was all about "so fun" and "so beautiful" and now it is all about "damn algae". We soldier on, and trust the best days are ahead, not behind.

Bev: Sounds like you've got a diatom issue (the brown slime). Good luck! If you're rearranging (removing and replacing) rock that often, is it possible you've given your wrasse a bump or a bruise? It'll probably forgive you soon.

OCDP
02-22-2007, 06:38 PM
It is hard for a lot of us right now it seems. Deb, you have my sympathy. I'm also a bit frustrated at the moment. A year ago, it was all about "so fun" and "so beautiful" and now it is all about "damn algae". We soldier on, and trust the best days are ahead, not behind.

Bev: Sounds like you've got a diatom issue (the brown slime). Good luck! If you're rearranging (removing and replacing) rock that often, is it possible you've given your wrasse a bump or a bruise? It'll probably forgive you soon.

That makes another one... I have been seriously contemplating shutting down my tank. The algae is non-stop and I can't keep up. I don't want to have to battle like this all the time. It seems if I spend 2 hours taking nothing but algae out of the tank, it's back ten times worse within a week. I'm doing everything right now, by the books.. and still...

It's extremely frustrating, and hell my tank is only 20g, so I can imagine the frustration with larger tanks. In the end, it's a love/hate thing... we love to see our reefs in their glory, looking amazing , and there's nothing you want to do but stare into your own slice of the ocean. Then there's the times when you avoid even looking at it because it's just a sight for sore eyes... ohhh the things that these glass boxes put us through.

adidas
02-22-2007, 06:43 PM
I don't think I've ever been this close to calling it quits after eight years in the hobby.

My FOWLR is a $*&$^%_) mess, we've been without any real circulation for so long, and the battle with the cyano and seeing the amount of detritus in there is giving me nightmares.

My 67g is finally my good growing SPS tank, and now I have flatworms, and aiptasia going nuts.

I'm tired. I'd like a holiday.

We don't have the tech knowledge we need to, and it doesn't seem there is anyone out there reliable enough to hire to solve our equipment maintenance problems. We buy things, like the mixing station from medican, but then we have no idea how to hook it up.

I'm frustrated, sick and tired. :cry:

i've got a bit of chemi-clean and flatworm exit here if you need a dose!

hawk
02-22-2007, 07:13 PM
Maybe you do need a break. If and when you get back in you can design a system and make all the changes you wished you had done the first time around. You have been in the hobby long enough to know "why" your current problems exist as well as the solutions. Look at it as a chance to start fresh but with alot more knowledge. When I re-did my system, I knew what worked last time and made the changes to make things better. It was a long process but it definitely reinvigorated my interest.

EmilyB
02-23-2007, 02:41 AM
Thank you all so much for your support and criticism.

Tony

I know what you mean. I have pics of my tanks the first few years in the hobby and when I look back at them, I wonder where all of this tech crap has really got me.

Ken

Your kind words and what I remember of your tanks is an inspiration.

Woodcarver

Thankyou and hope to see your new tank soon.

Bev

Both tanks are BB. I regulary kalk the aiptasia I can reach. Another tank teardown to get them all I just can't face right now. So I'll ignore them as Christy suggested to me today. :lol:

The flatworms are not that numerous, just mostly in a low flow area to I'll try to attack that and ignore them as well.

Stinky, harsh words but true. We haven't been doing water changes as frequently due to my husbands pre and post op problems with his ankle. I have spondolythesis (degenerative spinal condition) or I'd be all over a lot more than the tanks ! :wink:

Christy, be glad you can't come visit. And having anyone come see that FOWLR right now would mortify me. :cry:

Everyone else

Thanks for your comments in this thread. We will work on getting the pump running again on the 230g this weekend. I'll order a vortech and step up the water changes. And ignore the aiptasia and flatworms for now.....:mrgreen:



I looked at Trig and Spiffy today, and having two 8 yr old fish helped me decide to fight a little longer.

Delphinus
02-23-2007, 03:02 AM
:cool: Hang in there. We all have our moments of clarity, thankfully the insanity comes back soon! ;)

Having fish for 8 years is truly a good measure of something. :)

cheers

BMW Rider
02-23-2007, 04:11 AM
I have noticed that my tanks seem to be cyclical. For a while they are looking great, things are growing, its well stocked, no problems. Then next thing you know, something turns sour and things start to die, recede, or a pest get out of control. Then you fight back; get it turned around until the next cycle starts.

Its quite discouraging to see things go bad, I know recently I had a mass of RTN on most of my sps. Seemed to be no real reason for it, but it has turned around now. Lost a few, the rest are regrowing, some quite well. Now I have a bit of nuisance algae coming back, so I need to stay vigilant on that. I don't think this hobby is ever easy, you can't really ever just relax and enjoy. That can lead to burn out, particularily with larger and or multiple tanks.

Just don't do anything rash, give the feelings time to settle, then make a plan of attack. Whatever you choose to do will be right for you.

Kronk
02-23-2007, 04:39 AM
My advice, downgrade, keep the best of everything you have and put it in a nano. A 20g with sump or similar you can deck out the nano with TONS of equipment that will make it less maintenance intensive system with less cost and give yourself a break. Chances are you will get the bug again for a bigger tank in a couple years. But there are a lot of things to enjoy about a nano some people never upgrade. http://www.nano-reef.com

Cheers.
Ken

Snappy
02-23-2007, 05:21 AM
Hey Deb I can relate with your frustration, I was about ready to throw in the towel myself early last fall. I did a complete tear down and set-up over the Labour day weekend and now you'd never know. Then even after that I still continued to battle cyano & MEGA, & I mean MEGA hair algae for months. Just keep in mind that there has to be opposition in all things that are worthwhile. That is what makes them rewarding but on the other hand frustrating. If it was too easy and without challenges there wouldn't be any feelings of reward. Tackle the issues one by one and given a little time your tank will once again be a show piece that you can take pride in. If there is anything I can do to help out just let me know.

BCOrchidGuy
02-23-2007, 06:01 AM
No advice from me, just a heartfelt suggestion and hoping you learn from my mistake(s). I can't tell you how hard it is to take down a tank and get rid of everything when it just gets to be to much, then at least for me I find I miss it so much I start all over again and I make some of the same mistakes and some new ones.

Don't make my mistakes, If it were me I'd take it all down again and then I'd wish I didn't in a few months. I'd spend more money than I should and I'd kick myself for not keeping things. Christy had some good advice, really good and I'm going to write that down for the next time something goes wrong... One battle at a time, not one whole battle but smaller ones I can win, one at a time.

Make the right decision for you and I sure hope it works out.

Doug

SeaHorse_Fanatic
02-23-2007, 06:16 AM
Deb,

Glad to read that you're going to continue for now. Hope everything works out. If not, then I know you'll make the decision based on what's best for you & for your fishies. Hang in there.

Anthony

Beverly
02-23-2007, 01:55 PM
Glad to hear you're hanging in there Deb :)

In the four years we've lived in our condo, we've pretty much had three tanks of various sizes going. Last summer, when we decided we were spending too much time on them, we downsized to only one tank. It was a hard decision to make, but we're happier with just the one. Husband helps significantly every Saturday morning during tank maintenance. I couldn't do the job without him.

Bev: Sounds like you've got a diatom issue (the brown slime). Good luck! If you're rearranging (removing and replacing) rock that often, is it possible you've given your wrasse a bump or a bruise? It'll probably forgive you soon.

Matt,

Googled diatoms and had a look as some pics. Diatoms look darker than what I have, though maybe I just have the early stages of it. My stuff is a yellow ochre colour rather than brown, and it's located in lower flow areas. It wipes off pretty easy too, especially if the rock is out of the tank. This is also a well established tank, with rock from tanks we've had for as long as three years. Will have a look at our RODI system to see if any filters need changing.

Hmm... Wonder if the wrasse did get bruised during valonia removal? However, his behaviour started after we took down the right side of the tank - the side he still inhabits with ease. I imagine, though, that if he were injured, he wouldn't be swimming all that well. Will keep a close eye on him for awhile.

Doug
02-23-2007, 02:06 PM
Hey Deb,
I think most of us long timers have been there, although I know thats no help for your tanks. Sometimes it just makes one want to bang their head on a wall. But we keep going, I guess because its such an enjoyable hobby when alls well, esp. for those of us that love pets/friends, which I know you do.

Passing on the flatworm fight may be fine for now, as they can be siphoned during water changes, increased current and getting them to that honkin skimmer you run. I would not, IMO, pass on getting after the aiptasia. Once they become plague like, its almost impossible to rid them.

Many use the peppermint shrimps and kalk the larger ones that you can reach. I had great success with my copperband but as most fish they can be 50/50 on their desire to eat them. We had good luck adding a small copperband to an established 180 with some larger fish, that would not allow the introduction of a medium sized copperband.

Chad
02-23-2007, 04:53 PM
The past 8 months have been hell for my tank as well.. a mysterious die off of my sps. Not even RTN, just a fast colour loss and then eventual death. Luckily all my caps have recovered, almost to pre-die off stage. I had a huge algae problem I finaly got under control with my Rabbitfish.. god I love him :) .... now I have the small valonia.. which I grabbed some Emerald crabs for.. I tried them out in a small tank with a huge chunk of valonia and they went crazy for it, so I hope they work :) ... Otherwise, things are finally starting to get back to normal.

With going to school full time and work, its been tough to keep the tank maintenance, I basicly set a timer for 1 hr and just power through water changes etc..

Good luck

Jim Barry
02-25-2007, 03:47 PM
Deb,

I know your heartache......we have shared our frustrations over the years, but somehow we keep going. I think somewhere deep inside... we all want to have a tank like Snappy's... that is why we keep going.

I have finally found the secret (I hope). After 5 months on ZeoVit, my tank has never looked better. bright colors on my SPS, no hair algae, excellent polyp extension and fantastic water clarity.

Before you throw in the towel....... try Zeovit... you will be sooo glad that you did !!

Deb ....come on over and see my tank !!


http://www.zeovit.com/modules.php?name=Jig

Skimmerking
02-25-2007, 04:22 PM
BUt Zeo costs lots of money thou :question:

Jim Barry
02-25-2007, 04:36 PM
Zeovit cost is quite high in the initial startup. Once it is established, the cost is considerably less. Currently It is costing me about $50.00 per month.

It is the best $50.00 a month I can spend..... My corals are healthy and growing like crazy and my death rate is practically zero.

I was losing corals before due to water conditions, so for me it has been a great investment.

ZeoVit may not be for everyone......but if you are frustrated and having trouble with your tank, it could be the best money you spend.....

Trust me.... I have thrown a lot of money at this hobby.


Jim

Jim Barry
02-25-2007, 04:38 PM
Deb,


Sorry to hijack your thread !!!

Snappy
02-26-2007, 12:08 AM
Deb,
I know your heartache......we have shared our frustrations over the years, but somehow we keep going. I think somewhere deep inside... we all want to have a tank like Snappy's... that is why we keep going.


:redface: :redface: :redface:
Jim,
Thank you for your very kind & generous remarks.

Deb as I mentioned before in this thread if I can be of help in any way please let me know. I am with Jim on the zeovit, or at least the bacteria and amino acids concept. I am personally using the Polyp-Labs "Reef-Fresh" program with positive results, which includes their online support. It give a similar result like the zeovit but doesn't deplete the potassium which is absorbed into the zeolite minerals. The monthly cost is about the same except no reactor needed so a smaller start up. Whichever one of the programs of this nature you go with it will make a positive impact on your system's health. My adding in a large refugium also really helped my algae issues.
Good luck and all the best,

albert_dao
02-26-2007, 12:51 AM
Zeovit doesn't absorb potassium. That's a myth that surrounds the whole zeolith process. Just to clarify, at super low nutrient levels, elements like potassium and other trace products become very important.

EmilyB
02-26-2007, 06:56 AM
Just to get this back on track a bit, I am not having any real problems with the SPS tank. Just a few flatworms and aiptasias....So I don't have any real need for Zeowhatever at the moment...

It's the FOWLR that is in the most trouble. The pump still couldn't be installed this weekend but we got some good advice and should be on track for Wednesday. :smile:

christyf5
02-26-2007, 02:11 PM
Just to get this back on track a bit, I am not having any real problems with the SPS tank. Just a few flatworms and aiptasias....So I don't have any real need for Zeowhatever at the moment...

It's the FOWLR that is in the most trouble. The pump still couldn't be installed this weekend but we got some good advice and should be on track for Wednesday. :smile:

Excellent to hear :biggrin:

EmilyB
03-01-2007, 01:29 AM
That's it. :cry:

Barry completed replumbed the 230g tonight, installed the pump we had purchased secondhand, only to find the rear seal shot and water pouring out.

I know the person we bought it from was not aware of this as he never used it. I don't blame anyone, it's just enough.

The tank hasn't been that rewarding for some time now, one problem after another, and we are both exhausted, physically and monetarily.

I'll be taking some pictures and posting the whole system up for sale as soon as I can.

We will continue to reefkeep with the smaller tank.

christyf5
03-01-2007, 01:32 AM
Say it ain't so :cry: :cry:

Go on msn.

niloc16
03-01-2007, 02:12 AM
sorry to see you go. hopefully you get the 'itch' again and come back.

EmilyB
03-01-2007, 02:26 AM
Colin, I ain't going nowhere ! I have a 67g reef tank !

Beverly
03-01-2007, 02:37 AM
Sorry to hear about the added frustration :sad:

Glad to hear you'll still have your 67g :)

Cap'n
03-01-2007, 02:57 AM
That sucks, Deb. Hope the smaller tank keeps you happy.

LostMind
03-02-2007, 07:00 PM
I just want to wish you the best with the 67g reef.

I shut down my tanks a while back for various reasons and man I am dying to have one back...