Magnesium and PE

[Skimmerking]

I have been testing my tank out with tests kits and checking levels. Now last night i found a article on Reef Central about Magnesium and PE. I got me thinking about May be that is why the corals would doing better in my tank. I dont have a Mag test kit, and never tested for Mag. I'm thinking that maybe I should get one But i can't be bothered paying $40 for a kit that only has 40 tests to it.

But sides Testing what is the highest the MAg can go up to I hear that 1350 is about the average PPM. I thought about just adding a certain about every 2 weeks or get in the mode of doing it with my water change. But my water changes consist of 20 gal per month ... will that still be enough.

[Beverly]

Micheal,

What's PE??

As for testing for Mg and adding supplements, it's a good idea. You've spent how much on your tank and you're balking at $40 for a measly test kit :razz: 1350 ppm of Mg is what to aim for, but I often have it a bit higher, say up to 1400 ppm with no ill effects that I'm aware of.

As a matter of fact, I'm going to do water testing right away this morning. Will be testing for Alk, Ca and Mg. I've got to figure out why my pH has been so high lately :neutral:

[Skimmerking]

Hey Bev (AKA MOM number 2 ) lol its Michael with a A :mrgreen:

PE I can't believe that you dont know what it stand for with all these short Abbrev's for words . Polyop Extension!!!!!!!:wink: Ya Since I have been in Reefing I have never tested for Magnesium.....

Last night on RC i was reading about it in SPS forum that this guys PE went crazy from upping his Magnesium...

[Reefer Rob]

The Italians using the Blue Coral method are keeping Mg at 1500 ppm :surprise: I find Mg like Ca and KH gets depleted, and needs to be tested and dosed.

[Beverly]

Sorry, Michael :redface: I type too fast sometimes and have always had a problem spelling Michael. Michael! Sheesh, you'd think I'd reread what I wrote ;)

Anyway, just tested my tank. Ca and Mg are a bit low, Alk is about right, but I've still got to do something about the high pH.

Thanks for telling me what PE is. Doh!

[Skimmerking]

The Italians using the Blue Coral method are keeping Mg at 1500 ppm :surprise: I find Mg like Ca and KH gets depleted, and needs to be tested and dosed.


Reefer Rob do you have a link for this blue coral method?

[Reefer Rob]

OK, But your gonna be sorry:mrgreen: It's one of those RC monster threads. The BC method translation is posted on the last page, but the whole thread is an inspiring read!

Italy's Best! Matured SPS Aquariums (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=971190)

Unless you can read Italian, then you could go to Reef Italia

[Quagmire]

damn need to become a member to read the reef Italia forums

[Skimmerking]

Well Bev I took your advice and bought a Magnesium test kit from J&L.:razz:

My luck it wont be the magnesium and it will have prefect levels .

[BCOrchidGuy]

That's another huge thread and I never did find the actual recipe for the food. Did anyone see the actual recipe?

Doug

[Reefer Rob]

LOL it was the last page yesterday. Page 36 Sir has posted the English translation of the Blue Coral article from Reef Italia.

[Reefer Rob]

This is the text
The Blue Coral Method

Many people have been stunned looking at the magnificent tanks managed with this method and many others have been interested to know it. The craftsman of the method was Maurizio Manili, in collaborations with others reefkeepers. Today the BC has been inherited by Valerio Pacetti, actual owner of the Blue Coral shop in Rome. He has brought some modifications to the old method.
In this article it we will try to explain how it works and how it can increase the corals’ growth.
We can manage our tanks in two ways: the first, with the simple ‘pappone’ without GH, and the full BC Method.
The basis of both systems are the same: Berliner classic; great attention for the water chemistry; “pappone”.

Berliner classic:

The Berliner classic is characterized by strong lighting system, great water movement , efficient skimmer and live rocks.

Water Chemistry:

A great attention must be put on this aspect, that has many positive implications in all of the BC method. The water parameters are kept in higher concentrations than in natural seawater. Typical and desired values are: Magnesium 1500 mg/l, Calcium 500 mg/l, Strontium 16-30 mg/l, Kh 12-14 mg/l, Iodine 0,06 mg/l, PO4 and NO3 near to zero. These values form a “reservoir” of chemical elements always available for coral calcification and growth.
“Pappone”:

The term “pappone” stands for a blending of fresh seafood mixed with a carbon source (fructose or simple sugar).
The recipe is this:
5 mussels, 5 shrimps, 5 oysters, 5 clams , (all of these must be fresh!!) 1 fructose or saccarose teaspoon, 250 ml of R.O. Water.
Blend energetically until it takes a creamy consistence. At this point, you can add the GH and achieve the full BC method, or leave it without hormone and have a ‘light’ BC method. You can use the 4 units (1,33 mg) vial. Then, blend again and put the pappone in a freezer container as ice cubes, then freeze it. Pay attention on the cold chain. It’s better use very cold RO water so that the temperature doesn’t become too warm when blending.

The GH, what is it?

The GH or somatotrope hormone, is a protein of small dimensions, with a structure considerably different varying the species. There is an high biological specificity, in the sense that the GH of one species is generally completely inactive in others; in that human, the only that is effective is the GH of the monkey. Viceversa, the human one acts only on the monkeys and on no others.

The sequence of the 191 amino acids are on linear chain, and fundamentally has two important actions in the human organism: the increase of the body mass and the regulation of the cellular metabolism, specially the proteic one.

After all, therefore, GH does not act on other mammals and obviously it does not act on invertebrates. This can simply be demonstrated by the need of specific receptors on the cellular membrane of the cell on wich the hormone acts. Obviously, the corals do not have receivers of this type.

The growth increases...

How can we explain the increased growth, the increase of the coral’s metabolism in relation with the increase of the calcification?

This is what it really happens. Many reefers that use this method, got a growth of A.formosa, cervicornis, nobilis, and various montiporas, of almost 40 cm per year. Also the foliose, the LPSs, and the softies increase their growth in impressive way.

I have made myself an idea on what can succeed in water. I state that that the short explanation that will follow is only fruit of my experiences and mine observations, but it does not mean that it’s the absolute truth!

The explanation must be searched in the typical characteristics, structural and molecular therefore, of the GH. Being a very small protein, it’s very probably, if not sure, that the GH put in the “pappone” is broken off. This is the fulcrum of the argument. It is not the integral GH that acts directly on corals, also because for the reasons said before it is very improbable, but it’s the broken GH that influences the growth and the increase of the metabolism.
When we feed our corals with the “pappone”, in reality we add in water many amino acids. In fact when the protein is broken off it comes exactly cracked in many pieces, everyone of which constituted by amino acids. It will be therefore the abundance of determined and very specific amino acids that involves the increased rate of growth.
This is the sole explanation to which I’ve comed after various observations. In this way it’s effectively possible to explain, from a biological point of view, how the GH can influence corals.

These amino acids that are supplied with the GH are added to the amino acids that we supply, generally, approximately 2 hours before the “pappone”, in order to favor the assimilation of this last one.

The remaining of the components of the “pappone” (mussels, clams and so on) will go to feeding bacterial cultivations, the sponges and all the benthic organisms, that in this way will go to feed corals. In this way we can have a situation of maximum saturation from the alimentary point of view of the coral, and therefore they have the possibility to calcify, given the abundance of the nutrients and chemical substances.

All this speech obviously does not regard the fishes that are not minimally influenced by the abundance of amino acids in water; in fact the fishes have absolutely normal rates of growth.
Generally one of aspects that characterize the Blue Method Coral is that after a short period of arrangement of the system, we can see a drastic reduction of nutrients, that remain stable generally towards the zero; it is for the phosphates as far as the nitrates. All the system benefits of the amino acid contribution.
Special attention must be given at the beginnig of the method, everyone must find the own doses of “pappone” to feed the tank. A fundamental aspect is in watching our animals and understanding how much food they need.

I hope I have cleared some aspects on this method, that I think one of the best methods of conduction of a reef tank, as if the GH is used, as if we take cue from the method also without the use of the hormone.

Thank you for attention, best regards and see you soon on Reefitalia Magazine!
Fabio Oggiano aka SiR



Neither the author of the article, the reefkeepers mentioned herein, nor reefitalia.net they are responsible of an improper use of the hormone; from the legislative point of view, it is from the use that everyone just makes of it. They are not moreover responsible of eventual damages to things or animals.


Copyright @ ReefItalia.net

[Skimmerking]

Well I have strong skimming( I hope) RC250
Strong Lighting 2x250Hqi over a 65 gal
Good water movement 94x turnover in a 65 gal.
Bare Bottom tank keeping the tank CLean I hope.

200mg ozone thur a skimmer.
dont feed much
Cal high
Alk 12-14
going to find out the Magnesium in a few days.
a few mangroves to export nitrates Ya what ever.
Lots of rock 170 lbs.

the only thing im missing is the clams, mussels, ETc to make the food.:idea:

[Reefer Rob]

Well I don't have the cajones to go 1500 ppm of Mg. 1300 to 1350 ppm is my comfort zone. I can't wait to see the looks on their faces at the seafood store when I place my next order. I would like 2 oysters....:redface:

[BCOrchidGuy]

Wonder if they'll shuck them for an extra buck.

Doug