Who knows diamonds?

[Tarolisol]

I was just wondering if anyone knows a good place to buy a diamond ring in calgary. Something of good quality and decent price.

[honkey sauce]

costco

[fortheloveofcrabs]

Sorry for the length....

Not to toot my own horn, but I worked for Birks Jewelers for, well, a while, a very good while. While there I received a pretty extensive education on diamonds and other gems. For I while, I was working on become a gemologist.

Anyways, no matter what ANYONE tells you (unless they are agreeing with me :)) CUT is EVERYTHING. To be frank, you can have a ‘crummy’ diamond, poor colour, flawed up to wazoo, but if the cut is great, none of that matters. It’s kinda of like love. It doesn’t matter if the one you love chews with their mouth open, or has smelly farts – you love them because they are beautiful to you. Cut is like that, only beautiful to everyone.

Next off, don’t be sold on (I’m assuming that you are getting a round diamond) cuts with more facets. Some companies claim that the more facets, the more sparkle. If this was true, the entire industry would be doing it. That said if you can ‘see’ a difference – and it makes you happy - then go for it.

Lastly, and second most importantly, don’t listen to “it’s a (any given jeweler)’s ‘good’ cut”. I don’t care how big you think you are, you have no right to claim what a ‘good’ cut is. Look for diamonds that have an AGS certificate with them. Some jewelers don’t provide the certs, but the diamonds are AGS graded – Birks, for example does this.

Having rambled on, I have a great deal of trust in Spence Diamonds, and the utmost esteem for Birks. Quite frankly, Birks ain’t cheep (they sell everything for EXACTLY what’s it worth, not a penny less) but they are the best, with out question. They have higher diamond standards than Tiffany’s. You get a Birks diamond if you are shopping
with out compromise. If nothing but they very best will do. Not just in the stone, but in the over all construction of the ring itself. Birks gets FIRST crack at ALL the diamonds cut and mined in Canada. They take near 90% of the AGS 0-1 cut stones. That’s 10% left for the rest of the world

Costco isn’t a bad offer. They are (in Edmonton at least – at least back then) one of only two place that is GIA certified (Birks being the other). The thing with Costco (albeit less expensive) is selection is limited (which can/may not be a problem) as well, you never know the history of the item you are buying. I will elaborate. High end Swiss watches are ALL serial numbered. And you have to be a jeweler of a certain caliber to be able to sell certain brands. Well, Costco is not of that caliber. Well, they still sell watches like Omega. Guess, what, no serial numbers on the watches – filed off. So where did the watch come from if not Omega? This may or may not bother you. You cannot get a watch serviced if it’s missing the serial numbers by the manufacture. Fortunately, diamonds do not need to be serviced.

They best advice I can possibly offer you is to shop, shop and shop around. Forget numbers and sales pitches. There is no one magical place to get ‘em – you just have to find the one that sings to you. When it’s really the right ring, like the right person, you will just know.

Hope this helps.

-Pauli

[andresont]

I was just wondering if anyone knows a good place to buy a diamond ring in calgary. Something of good quality and decent price.


Diamonds are worthless, they just cost as much as work that was put in to it for cutting. Same hipe as with oil. You will never see a queen wearing a diamond, because it is worth nothing.
*************************************************
Take 10 min to search on web why it is so...
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Ten Reasons Why You Should Never Accept a Diamond Ring from Anyone, Under Any Circumstances, Even If They Really Want to Give You One (2/14/02)
By Liz Stanton, CPE Staff Economist


1. You've Been Psychologically Conditioned To Want a Diamond
The diamond engagement ring is a 63-year-old invention of N.W.Ayer advertising agency. The De Beers diamond cartel contracted N.W.Ayer to create a demand for what are, essentially, useless hunks of rock.

2. Diamonds are Priced Well Above Their Value
The De Beers cartel has systematically held diamond prices at levels far greater than their abundance would generate under anything even remotely resembling perfect competition. All diamonds not already under its control are bought by the cartel, and then the De Beers cartel carefully managed world diamond supply in order to keep prices steadily high.

3. Diamonds Have No Resale or Investment Value
Any diamond that you buy or receive will indeed be yours forever: De Beers’ advertising deliberately brain-washed women not to sell; the steady price is a tool to prevent speculation in diamonds; and no dealer will buy a diamond from you. You can only sell it at a diamond purchasing center or a pawn shop where you will receive a tiny fraction of its original "value."

4. Diamond Miners are Disproportionately Exposed to HIV/AIDS
Many diamond mining camps enforce all-male, no-family rules. Men contract HIV/AIDS from camp sex-workers, while women married to miners have no access to employment, no income outside of their husbands and no bargaining power for negotiating safe sex, and thus are at extremely high risk of contracting HIV.

5. Open-Pit Diamond Mines Pose Environmental Threats
Diamond mines are open pits where salts, heavy minerals, organisms, oil, and chemicals from mining equipment freely leach into ground-water, endangering people in nearby mining camps and villages, as well as downstream plants and animals.

6. Diamond Mine-Owners Violate Indigenous People's Rights
Diamond mines in Australia, Canada, India and many countries in Africa are situated on lands traditionally associated with indigenous peoples. Many of these communities have been displaced, while others remain, often at great cost to their health, livelihoods and traditional cultures.

7. Slave Laborers Cut and Polish Diamonds
More than one-half of the world's diamonds are processed in India where many of the cutters and polishers are bonded child laborers. Bonded children work to pay off the debts of their relatives, often unsuccessfully. When they reach adulthood their debt is passed on to their younger siblings or to their own children.

8. Conflict Diamonds Fund Civil Wars in Africa
There is no reliable way to insure that your diamond was not mined or stolen by government or rebel military forces in order to finance civil conflict. Conflict diamonds are traded either for guns or for cash to pay and feed soldiers.

9. Diamond Wars are Fought Using Child Warriors
Many diamond producing governments and rebel forces use children as soldiers, laborers in military camps, and sex slaves. Child soldiers are given drugs to overcome their fear and reluctance to participate in atrocities.

10. Small Arms Trade is Intimately Related to Diamond Smuggling
Illicit diamonds inflame the clandestine trade of small arms. There are 500 million small arms in the world today which are used to kill 500,000 people annually, the vast majority of whom are non-combatants.

References:

Collier, Paul, "Economic Causes of Civil Conflict and Their Implications for Policy," World Bank, June 15, 2000.

Epstein, Edward Jay, "Have You Ever Tried to Sell a Diamond?", The Atlantic Monthly, February 1982. www.theatlantic.com/issues/82feb/8202diamond1.htm

Global Witness, "Conflict Diamonds: Possibilities for the Identification, Certification and Control of Diamonds," A Briefing Document, June 2000, www.globalwitness.org/text/campaigns/diamonds/reports.html


Human Rights Watch/Asia, "The Small Hands of Slavery: Bonded Child Labor In India," Human Rights Watch Children's Rights Project, www.hrw.org/reports/1996/India3.htm .

Human Rights Watch, "Children’s Rights: Stop the Use of Child Soldiers;" www.hrw.org/campaigns/crp/index.htm .

Kerlin, Katherine "Diamonds Aren’t Forever: Environmental Degradation and Civil War in the Gem Trade," The Environment Magazine, www.emagazine.com/september-october_2001/0901gl_consumer.html .

Le Billon, Philippe, "Angola’s Political Economy of War: The Role of Oil and Diamonds, 1975-2000," African Affairs, (2001), 100, p.55-80.

Mines and Communities, "The Mining Curse: The roles of mining in ‘underdeveloped’ economies," Minewatch Asia Pacific/Nostromo Briefing Paper, February 1999, www.minesandcommunities.org/Country/curse.htm .

Other Facets, Number 1, April 2001; Number 2, June 2001; Number 3, October 2001, www.partnershipafricacanada.org/hsdp/of.html .

[Quagmire]

Unfortunatly alot of what andresont says is true.Actualy its all true,but not true with every diamond.But since in the end they are all mixed together,you cant tell one from the other.I personaly wouldn't buy one for those reasons also.But if you're going to,check out Spence.They will buy it back at the same price they sold it to you.

[SJSobczyk]

Go to Calgary Jewellers on 17th Ave. Great service and selection. I have bought every piece of jewellery from there.

Steve

[Tarolisol]

Diamonds are worthless, they just cost as much as work that was put in to it for cutting. Same hipe as with oil. You will never see a queen wearing a diamond, because it is worth nothing.
*************************************************
Take 10 min to search on web why it is so...
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Ten Reasons Why You Should Never Accept a Diamond Ring from Anyone, Under Any Circumstances, Even If They Really Want to Give You One (2/14/02)
By Liz Stanton, CPE Staff Economist


1. You've Been Psychologically Conditioned To Want a Diamond
The diamond engagement ring is a 63-year-old invention of N.W.Ayer advertising agency. The De Beers diamond cartel contracted N.W.Ayer to create a demand for what are, essentially, useless hunks of rock.

2. Diamonds are Priced Well Above Their Value
The De Beers cartel has systematically held diamond prices at levels far greater than their abundance would generate under anything even remotely resembling perfect competition. All diamonds not already under its control are bought by the cartel, and then the De Beers cartel carefully managed world diamond supply in order to keep prices steadily high.

3. Diamonds Have No Resale or Investment Value
Any diamond that you buy or receive will indeed be yours forever: De Beers’ advertising deliberately brain-washed women not to sell; the steady price is a tool to prevent speculation in diamonds; and no dealer will buy a diamond from you. You can only sell it at a diamond purchasing center or a pawn shop where you will receive a tiny fraction of its original "value."

4. Diamond Miners are Disproportionately Exposed to HIV/AIDS
Many diamond mining camps enforce all-male, no-family rules. Men contract HIV/AIDS from camp sex-workers, while women married to miners have no access to employment, no income outside of their husbands and no bargaining power for negotiating safe sex, and thus are at extremely high risk of contracting HIV.

5. Open-Pit Diamond Mines Pose Environmental Threats
Diamond mines are open pits where salts, heavy minerals, organisms, oil, and chemicals from mining equipment freely leach into ground-water, endangering people in nearby mining camps and villages, as well as downstream plants and animals.

6. Diamond Mine-Owners Violate Indigenous People's Rights
Diamond mines in Australia, Canada, India and many countries in Africa are situated on lands traditionally associated with indigenous peoples. Many of these communities have been displaced, while others remain, often at great cost to their health, livelihoods and traditional cultures.

7. Slave Laborers Cut and Polish Diamonds
More than one-half of the world's diamonds are processed in India where many of the cutters and polishers are bonded child laborers. Bonded children work to pay off the debts of their relatives, often unsuccessfully. When they reach adulthood their debt is passed on to their younger siblings or to their own children.

8. Conflict Diamonds Fund Civil Wars in Africa
There is no reliable way to insure that your diamond was not mined or stolen by government or rebel military forces in order to finance civil conflict. Conflict diamonds are traded either for guns or for cash to pay and feed soldiers.

9. Diamond Wars are Fought Using Child Warriors
Many diamond producing governments and rebel forces use children as soldiers, laborers in military camps, and sex slaves. Child soldiers are given drugs to overcome their fear and reluctance to participate in atrocities.

10. Small Arms Trade is Intimately Related to Diamond Smuggling
Illicit diamonds inflame the clandestine trade of small arms. There are 500 million small arms in the world today which are used to kill 500,000 people annually, the vast majority of whom are non-combatants.




Well if all this gibberish said, you can tell my GF she doesnt get a diamond engagment ring. And this is not all true, many diamond stores now gaurantee a buy back price of equal value to your purchase price. Also im going to purchase a canadian diamond and im pretty sure most of this doesnt apply to those workers.

Also in regard to number one. This is BS stuff is only worth what people are willing to pay for, wether or not you think they have be "Psychologicly condition" or not. I know people who sell 5 dollars bills for 50 because the serial number is special. Or I recall a grilled cheese being sold for thousands of dollars. Also if your going with this statment. religion is the same way it has no value exept for the people that want to believe, millions have died for it as well.

Everything is what we made it to be, and without circumstances like that there would be no need for currancy.

[Scavenger]

Diamond stores aside, I believe congratulations are in order right??
If so, Congratulations and best wishes to you and your fiancee.

[fortheloveofcrabs]

Yes, I wasn't sure if it was for that, but congradulations!

I have a few questions… Andresont, do you drink soda? Or fast food? Or (here’s the kicker) keep fish? Guess what, they are all “Psychologically Conditioned Wants”. Your body doesn’t actually WANT soda – it wants water - YOU want soda.

“Diamonds are Priced Well Above Their Value” Yup, well, sorta. There is a very high markup % percent, if that’s what you are referring too. So do $199.99 MH light bulbs though.

“Diamonds Have No Resale or Investment Value” well, I’m not sure where you got this one, but last I checked, you can buy second hand diamonds many many places, so ‘no resale value’ is silly. As far as investment goes, of course not. Neither do cars, cloths, fish tanks or pretty much anything else you buy. That’s what stocks and property is for.

“4. Diamond Miners are Disproportionately Exposed to HIV/AIDS”
Maybe, but those Nike shoes were also made in a sweat shop. And if that’s a problem buy a Russian diamond, or Canadian.

“Open-Pit Diamond Mines Pose Environmental Threats” Yes, so does pretty much any manufacturing company in a 3rd world country – heck, many in 1st world countries! What about all those beef farmers way down south that chopped down a huge chunk of rain forest?

“Diamond Mine-Owners Violate Indigenous People's Rights” Yeah, for money though. If the indigenous people didn’t want it on their land, they could kick them off. The companies have the legal right to be there. If they didn’t, the diamonds would belong to the land owners, not the mining companies.

“Slave Laborers Cut and Polish Diamonds” – too touchy of a subject, buy again, who made that jacket?

“Conflict Diamonds Fund Civil Wars in Africa” so does art, and drugs, and anything else that is small and of high value.

“9. Diamond Wars are Fought Using Child Warriors
Many diamond producing governments and rebel forces use children as soldiers, laborers in military camps, and sex slaves. Child soldiers are given drugs to overcome their fear and reluctance to participate in atrocities.” WHAT? If the governments are using drugged up 12 year olds as soldiers, well, what does that have to do with diamonds?


This was my favorite “You will never see a queen wearing a diamond, because it is worth nothing”

Last I checked, the Imperial State Crown, which is a center piece of the Royal Crown Jewle Collection has 2,868 diamonds. Not to mention the Imperial Crown of India with 6000+ diamonds – and then theirs the Crown of Queen Elizabeth with a whopping 17 carat diamond in it.

Oh yeah, and Princess Diana’s engadment ring, albeit was a large sapphire (which holds it’s value to about the same degree as a diamond) was surrounded by diamonds.

Don’t believe enything you read on the internet.

Sean, a diamond, or a ring from a vending machine, is worth the world if you and her are right. Congratulations again!

[trilinearmipmap]

Years ago I bought a diamond engagement ring.

I recall it was one instance where the seller had all the power.

For most transactions the buyer has a lot of power. You can research a car or a flat panel TV, you can read reviews and compare prices online. If you don't like the price you go down the street to the next place.

Most of us (me included) have no idea how much any particular diamond is worth. You have to rely on the salesperson who tells you its quality and value. Of course they will tell you it is a $12,500.00 diamond but they will sell it to you for $8,000.00 (that is what I was told). Because most people know nothing about diamonds we are buying on blind faith. And hopefully we only have to buy a diamond once, so we have no experience in shopping for diamonds.

The consumer has no knowledge and therefore no power.

The best advice I read was to get an independent appraisal of a diamond before buying it.

[midgetwaiter]

Well if all this gibberish said, you can tell my GF she doesnt get a diamond engagment ring. And this is not all true, many diamond stores now gaurantee a buy back price of equal value to your purchase price. Also im going to purchase a canadian diamond and im pretty sure most of this doesnt apply to those workers.

Also in regard to number one. This is BS stuff is only worth what people are willing to pay for, wether or not you think they have be "Psychologicly condition" or not.

The man does have a point, even if that top 10 list thing is awful. Atlantic Monthly did the only really comprehensive look at the diamond industry I've ever come across (in 1982!) which is available here http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/198202/diamond

Regardless I imagine Tarolisol would find himself having a nice reasoned discussion with his finance based on this and then get "I like the one on the left, get that one", just like I did. Whatever man, it's peanuts compared to the "we need a bigger house" discussion anyway. Good Luck :)

[Beverly]

Atlantic Monthly did the only really comprehensive look at the diamond industry I've ever come across (in 1982!) which is available here http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/198202/diamond

Excellent article!

A couple either buys into the social pressure of diamond ring or they don't. I haven't, in either of my two marriages. Gold wedding bands for the first, and a platinum wedding bands for the second. No diamond necklaces, bracelets, earrings, watches or anything else diamond over here.

Money that could have gone for diamond engagement rings or other diamond trinkets instead went to paying mortgages. Those were the first steps to now not having had a mortgage in over ten years :biggrin:

[Tarolisol]

Social pressure aside, I like the way diamonds look and i have no problem paying for somthing I think is worth the money. My girlfriend wants one and I want her to have one. Why is gold worth so much money, or platinum because we decide it is, same with oil, gas, even water in some places. Its not that there isnt enough oil or water its that the demand for it is high and its difficult to get. Basic supply and demand. If you want to stop falling to social pressure stop driving your car.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

Clearly Sean just wanted some helpful advice on buying a diamond, not history lessons or opinions on the evils of diamonds!

They're pretty.
The girls like them.
Sean's girl likes them.
Sean wants to buy one for her.

Seems pretty simple to me! And I think it's humorass that people bawk at the idea of spending thousands of dollars on an engagement ring while they spend thousands of dollars per year on reef aquariums! Priceless.

So what I'm gathering is....Birk's, Spence or Costco.

[Beverly]

If you want to stop falling to social pressure stop driving your car.

Since you brought it up, we own one vehicle. It's a 2001 Nissan Altima that has about 40,000 kms on it. Living downtown in a 1,500 sq ft condo with husband working downtown, we either walk, take a bus, or drive our car to out of the way destinations. Will probably drive that car until a good, inexpensive alternative energy car becomes available.

If you and your girlfriend are keen on a diamond ring, I say go for it. Everybody has different wants in this world. Good luck picking out that special diamond :)

[muck]

They're pretty.
The girls like them.
Sean's girl likes them.
Sean wants to buy one for her.


You forgot a few.. :razz:

They're pretty.
The girls like them.
Sean's girl likes them.
Sean wants to buy one for her.
Sean buys one for her.
Sean's girl says yes.
Sean gets married and buys an oversized house in the suburbs with the wraparound veranda with the white picket fence and gets a dog, 2 cats and has 2.3 kids in the next couple years.
Sean also trades in his HumVee for a Ford Focus and commutes daily (yes 7 days a week) to his crummy job downtown which is 20 minutes away (but always seems to take an hour and a half in rush hour traffic) just to pay off the extravagent wedding and the oversized house and feed his family.
Sean is never the less the happiest man in the world as his girl is happy. A happy wife is a happy life.


On a serious note... Congrats Sean. Hope you have a wonderful life together. :biggrin:

[Beverly]

And I think it's humorass that people bawk at the idea of spending thousands of dollars on an engagement ring while they spend thousands of dollars per year on reef aquariums! Priceless.

Hehehehe :razz: You picked the wrong person to accuse of spending thousands of $$ per year on a reef yet skimping on engagement rings. We've got one of the lowest tech 120g mixed sps/lps/softie/bta reefs on this board. No sump, no skimmer, no fuge, no auto-top off systems, no canisters filled with chemicals, no wave thingies, no high end powerheads, no reactors of any kind. Highest tech stuff we have are a 6 stage RODI unit for use with chloramine-treated tapwater, a Hamilton MH and PC lighting system, a Pinpoint pH probe and monitor, a refractometer, alk/Mg/Ca test kits, and, oh yes, THE turkey baster :biggrin:

BTW, Sean, very best wishes for a long and happy life with your bride-to-be :)

[fishguyxd]

if you want a little diamond lesson first hand stop by spence diamonds you will learn for yourself hands on with no pressure to buy.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

Hehehehe :razz: You picked the wrong person to accuse of spending thousands of $$ per year on a reef yet skimping on engagement rings.

I knew this was a dangerous statement! No, Beverly, I wasn't accusing you! I was just stating that it's generally a very expensive "hobby" :smile:

[woodcarver]

This is an interesting thread . First I think we all wish Sean well and I suppose the cardinal rule is 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder '.
I think we should be able to have an exchange of information and opinion without getting personal.
Sean did ask for help in determining ' quality and price' which ,of course opened up the debate.
I have never been one who attached any priority to the purchase of "serious " jewellery . As an earlier post suggested other demands seemed to me to be more pressing in raising a family buying a house etc.
Before reading the articles about the diamond trade I had independantly come to the opinion that diamonds are a "one way trade '. The assesments are not really of any value ( other than maybe for insurance ).
To give an example ,my partner had a diamond studded watch left to her in her mothers estate . A reputable jeweller assessed its value as $17,000.00.

Another jeweller ,again very reputable has the watch for sale at their suggested resale price of $8000.00 of which my partner will receive $4500.00 if sold . So far no takers . Ignoring the actual watch it says lot about
' quality and price' of diamonds. !

So ,for my penn'orth if you girl friend wants it and you wish to show her your feelings for her, have a great time picking the nicest one you can find and dont worry about value or quality as these are ethereal ,not quantifiable and will in all probability never be put to the test.

Wow ,that feels better :) :)

Best wishes .................Dave

[Tarolisol]

Thanks for all the advice and well wishes.
I have become quite knowledgable in diamonds in the last couple day and now know what to look for.

So ,for my penn'orth if you girl friend wants it and you wish to show her your feelings for her, have a great time picking the nicest one you can find and dont worry about value or quality as these are ethereal ,not quantifiable and will in all probability never be put to the test.

Although resale value is of no importance to me quality of a diamond is. A good quality diamond looks alot different then a poor one. As well as colour and cut can have a huge impact of the diamonds apperance.

[andresont]

Well.. looks like what I could do for sure is stirrup a lot of sand.(emotions).
I think the best is to be informed and make your own decision based on that.
My wife has a diamonds too, just because that what she wanted.
I see no value in diamonds,only have tiny one (gift from wife) my live rock have way better resale rate as well as other SW equipment compare to our furniture and TV. LOL !

The good thing is that we are having civilized discussion right ?

[BCOrchidGuy]

Wow, my girlfriend and I are both gun shy (gun = marriage) her a bit more than me, so after seeing this thread I'm really glad she's the smart one.... although with her standing over my shoulder she eloquently reminded me that diamonds are her birth stone and she'd still like one someday.... ewoops

Doug