Planted tank substrate suggestions?

[Delphinus]

What are some options for a planted tank substrate?

I'm going to use 2 bags of "Eco Complete" gravel in my 65g but I'm not sure if it's going to be enough to get 3". Should I look at a layer of laterite underneath? Or would I even need laterite because there's supposed to be enough Iron in the Eco-Complete?

[Kryten]

I spent a bunch of money on laterite once. My plants still all died. I think good lighting is probably more important.

[andsoitgoes]

Eco Complete is one of my fav substrates to use, it has a great look and lasts for quite some time to provide nutrients. Most people I've spoken to do not need extra root supplements like laterite in their eco complete - dosing with a PMDD (Poor Man's Dosing Drops) is generally sufficient.

What Kryten says is pretty much the truth though, good lighting is very important. But you have to make certain that you're adding in CO2 and Macro/Micro nutrients atop that to ensure you've got a well fed system.

Do that, and you're solid gold :)

[Delphinus]

Thanks. Yeah, understand about the lighting. The plan for now is to use 2x65W PC since that's what I have, but was thinking of looking at T5 down the road. 2x65W is what I have over my current FW and it's OK (I mostly just have Anubias and Java fern anyhow at the moment .. a couple other things I can't ID). Tank is same height so I'm hoping to get away with it for now.

Today I'm mostly just concerned with the substrate selection, since the tank is empty now, now is a good time time to get the bottom right, then I can build up from there.

[Carlos68]

I just used eco complete on my 135. Normally I just use a normal gravel substrate with Jobesticks added. However, this time I wanted to try Eco complete. So far, the results are positive. The plants are doing great, including the dwarf hairgrass. It looks great with the black eco complete and no more adding extra ferts to the substrate.. *well, besides giving the swords and such some extra ferts*


IMO, try the eco complete, its worth it. But...shop around for the best deal

[Delphinus]

Cool, think that's what I'm going to do then (just use Eco-Complete). I'm not sure if two bags will be enough, we'll see when it comes time to fill the tank if I need a third bag or not. I'm just waiting on my heater controller to arrive before setting the cable heater in and getting the subtrate in and filling the tank. Hopefully within the next day or two.. :cool:

[Carlos68]

I thought I had enough for my tank...f our bags... WRong..LOL... ended up putting in another 2...and could still use more.

Might want to make sure you get a third bag, just to be safe. Remember, do not rinse the eco complete, just open the bag and dump in the gravel and the water that is in the bag. It's Liquid amazon.

[StirCrazy]

dosing with a PMDD (Poor Man's Dosing Drops) is generally sufficient.



I used to dose a cup a day of that and I still couldn't grow algae LOL

Steve

[Dale]

Another benefit to Eco Complete is that it tends to hold the roots better than Laterite. That being said I have also had good success using crushed granite (chicken grit) at $8 / 50lb. bag at Buckerfields
Tony, are you planning other plants than Anubias and java ferns? Both of those do better unplanted (grown over driftwood or rocks) as their roots tend to rot otherwise.
Both are lower light plants though and easy to grow. I've even grown them under normal fluorescents. Some other good low light plants are Tape grass (Valisneria spiralis) Contorted Tapegrass (Valisneria spiralis 'tortissima') Elodia (Egeria densa) Pearlgrass (Hemianthus micranthemoides) and Windelov fern (Microsorum pteropus 'windelov')

Here's my old 33G. with normal fluorescents and chicken grit:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_0122.jpg

[Delphinus]

I haven't thought that far ahead yet. What kind of lighting would 2x65w be considered over a 65g tank (2wpg)? Low or medium?

[Dale]

I think it depends on how serious you plan to be.
If you're not planning a Dutch or Amano style tank then you could probably consider it moderate; just don't go for the more high light demanding species. If you want to go all out then you are probably on the low end (how deep is the tank BTW).
When upgrading your lighting and adding fertilizers you also have to factor in CO2 dosing as well. You can run a balanced system and experience little algae growth with moderate lighting, fish waste and no CO2 injection but if you up the lighting and nutrient dose without aux CO2 you may run into nuisance algae blooms. Your plants just can't respire fast enough. I experienced this on my 140G. with 4X96w PC's/no CO2. Running all four lights was too much (hair and brush algae blooms) and I ended up running only two with much better results.

Here's the 140G.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_2601.jpg

[Delphinus]

Your tank is great looking. I enjoy seeing it everytime you post that picture.

The 65g is a 24" tall tank.

I think as soon as we start giving a method a name ("Dutch"/"Amano") then we're getting into an area that's going to require too much time to learn and maintain and stuff. :) So I'd love a tank that looks *kinda* like yours with the textures and the 3d layering and stuff but I don't want to go off the deep end and find out I'm in over my head. At least for now, but if I can "grow into" it at a slower pace then that might be OK.

[Quagmire]

:shocked!: Nice tank

[StirCrazy]

Dale, what kind of circulation, if any, are you running on your 140?

where did you find granite chicken grit, I usually only see crushed oyster shells. I wouldn't have thought to use granite my self as it is almost insoluble so it wouldn't provide any nutrients for the plants.

Steve

[Dale]

I don't have the dedication for such high maintenance systems either. That 140 was started with the left overs from my 33G. and I slowly filled it in by repeatedly striking cuttings. If that's the route you go add fast growing plants like elodea and water sprite to start (they will help out compete the microalgae) and then remove them as the slower growing plants fill in.
Also, if your focus is the plants consider a no or low fishload. My biggest headache was excess fishwaste. Next time I am only going to add working stock like oto cats and rosy barbs if needed.

The crushed granite is sold as chicken grit. I've bought it at Buckerfields and Del's farm supply in Abbotsford. I wouldn't have thought of it either but I am a cheapskate and always looking for a deal. A lot of my fish keeping supplies have been purchased at non fish related stores. I also don't know why it works. One theory I have is that the substrate holds the roots securely but doesn't compact and allows really good root growth (shrugs shoulders).
On that 140 tank I used 2 AC 500's but I wouldn't do that again. I found the spillway flow knocked the plants down too much. It would probably be better to go with a cannister so that one could direct the return flow away from the plants. Also with dosing CO2 one could feed the airline into the cannister intake. This would allow a lot of contact time between the CO2 bubbles and the water as it travelled through the cannister.
Personally, if I (when I) do another dedicated planted tank I would consider a closed loop circ system like this (buried in the substrate with closer spaced 1/2"pvc piping). There are 1/8th" holes drilled every inch and the flow was provided by 2 maxijet 1200's.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_0924.jpg

I built this for a 75G. reef but it was perfect for a planted tank. The flow went straight up and blew the detritus into the water column so the filter could take it. The flow was also gentle enough that it wouldn't hurt the leaves and it would keep them oriented up and down.
That aside, I think a good planted tank set up is a low flow drilled tank/sump. The only concern I would have is a wide enough overflow box so that detached plant leaves couldn't plug it.

[Delphinus]

Quick question for you guys - where can one buy more Eco-Complete? I might need more than the 2 bags I already have and nobody in town seems to carry it anymore. (At least those that I talked to..)

[X-Treme]

Why not try Flourite? I used 15ish bags in my 110 and my plants grow like WEEDS with NO dosing. I just have 3.5W/Gallon and CO2 injection. I tried Eco-complete in a 20 Gallon Bolivian Ram baby tank and hated it more and more EVERY day I looked at it. I like the flourite more and more every day. JMO

[Dale]

I've used flourite with good results - natural rust shale look with excellent runner development (contorted val's). One problem I encountered was the amount of rinsing I had to do but I always suspected that I recieved some old bags.

I also like eco complete. It's simular in texture to flourite but black instead of rust coloured. Why didn't you like it X-Treme?

I've also used straight laterlite (beads) because I like the look of it but found it was too loose and the plants tended to uproot easily. I wouldn't do that again. It's intended as a substrate additive anyways.

Tony, can't one of the stores special order it for you? I know Hidden Reef in Abbotsford carries it and does ship it but I don't know how much that would add to the cost overall. I could ask if you want.

[StirCrazy]

I have always just used pool filter sand in my planted tanks with jolb plant spikes, how much difference does using florite make?

Steve