VW Passat .... if you ever consider owning one ....

[Delphinus]

This is rediculous.

I had a 1991 Passat that I absolutely adored for several years until a little old lady driving on the highway decided to cross the double line and drive into me head-on. At highway speeds we were both lucky to live through that accident.

Anyways I adored that Passat and since it died in a spectacular fashion, I decided to get a new Passat. So two years ago I bought a 1995 Passat. I had been drooling over the VW VR6 engine ever since it's inception in the early 90's. A very peppy engine and a lot of fun to drive.

Well ... let me tell you something if you ever consider a Passat. WALK AWAY!!!! Don't let the "nice driving feeling" intoxicate you.

I have owned this car for 2 - 1/2 years and let me tell you. I HAVE SUNK ABOUT $8000 INTO MAINTAINING THIS CAR IN THAT TIME. That's rediculous!!! The maintenance this car needs is high, high end. I mean ... literally, this is the kind of maintenance I would be OK with if the car was a Porsche 911 (and I mean a high-end 911 not a 20 year old 911.)

$1000 last week for a new hydraulic clutch.

$600 today for miscellaneous steering components.

Just discovered today that the rack is toast. Ok, so much for the $600 now I'm looking at more like $1600 (because the rack is about $1000 and that's for REBUILT). After 4 VW's in the last ten years, I can tell you that VW doesn't have a clue when it comes to steering racks. This is a serious weakness with this maker. I went through 3 steering racks on my old 1991 GTI. That car just ate racks. When I got the word today that my steering problems of late are coming from the rack .... I just about lost it.

But .... I have bigger problems than just a mere $1000 steering rack.

MY TRANSMISSION JUST LOST A SYNCHRO GEAR. You can hear it banging around in there as you drive. Unbeleivable. This car must have been so abused in its previous life.

I mean ... what is this? Did my car suddenly turn into a Chrysler? I have to replace my tranny???!! Who ever heard of replacing a STANDARD transmission?! It's not an automatic for crying out loud!

BTW, I'm a decent driver. I don't pop my clutch, I don't ride my clutch. I don't drag race. I take my car in for oil changes and all the scheduled maintenances.

Well ... that's it. I'm through owning second-hand VW's. I might possibly be through with owning VW's altogether, and forever. Forget "Drivers Wanted." They should change their logo to "Parts Wanted." They USED to be good cars. Ten years ago. But now ... no, forget it. They are just low-end Audi's with high-end Porsche maintenance needs.

Do yourself a favour. Stay away from them.

To think of the reef setup I could have had by now. Man alive.

BTW, I'm now looking for a decent 1984 GTI. Best car I ever owned (too bad it was STOLEN and then WRECKED by some PUNK!! AAARRRGGGGHHH!!!!)

[AJ_77]

:shock: :evil:

I'm with you man, our '86 Jetta was the biggest POS ever. Even though they are wildly popular now (and supposedly better), I wouldn't touch one. I will not buy another VW - that's still a real bad taste in my mouth.

Very Sorry to hear of your VW disaster. People complain bitterly about domestic products, but I've known VW, Audi and even Merdeces owners with horror stories similar to yours. Doesn't make sense.

Aj

[Samw]

This is rediculous.

I had a 1991 Passat that I absolutely adored for several years until a little old lady driving on the highway decided to cross the double line and drive into me head-on. At highway speeds we were both lucky to live through that accident.

I mean ... what is this? Did my car suddenly turn into a Chrysler? I have to replace my tranny???!! Who ever heard of replacing a STANDARD transmission?! It's not an automatic for crying out loud!




Wow. Highway head-on?? Horrific but glad to know you both walked away from it.

Replacing the entire transmission is also standard procedure for my Dodge Stealth R/T Turbo (Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 rebadged). If you look up the shop manual under transmissions, its says that they are not serviceable. Neither Dodge nor Mitsubishi sells parts for them. Neither of them will even open up the Getrag tranny. A new tranny costs $10,000. Luckily, I found a rebuilt one for $2,500 from California. The driveshaft U-Joints are also not serviceable and repair requires a complete replacement at $2,000. Luckily, I got an aftermarket carbon fiber one with serviceable U-Joints for only $1,500. This is only since summer. I too have sunk about $8k-$10k in repairs on my car but over 4 years. :)

Oh, get this. Dodge sells spark plugs for my car at $50 per plug (not the entire set). A rubber air conditioning hose (about 3") was about $250. Good thing I had an extended warranty at that time otherwise, my repair total would have been >$15,000.

[EmilyB]

Did my car suddenly turn into a Chrysler?

http://jabot2000.homestead.com/files/emoticons/rotfl1.gif

[christyf5]

Quote:
Did my car suddenly turn into a Chrysler?





Wahaha, I was thinking a Chev! I used to own a Blazer. You know what gave them that name right?? :roll: The damned thing caught fire twice. :shock: Now thats a POS!!

Christy :)

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

I feel your pain...I have a Mazda 626 and its got some issues. But I also have a VW Passat...newer model though 2002. I like the Passat a lot and it has worked well for the past 1.5 years. The Passat is derived from the A4/A6 family (basically an A5ish) and its got the same drive components. VW really changed their attitude in the late 90s since VW was loosing market share to the bigger brothers - BMW and Mercedes.

I haven't heard much about any recent steering rack problems on VW. Most of the problems that I am hearing are electrical problems. If you think VW is bad...try an BMW. You'll get to know the dealer very well :)

Say...do you get your repairs done at the dealer or by yourself ?

VWs are like Ford of Germany...they aren't that great but they do handle a lot better than most America fords.

- Victor.

[StirCrazy]

Hi,

VWs are like Ford of Germany...they aren't that great but they do handle a lot better than most America fords.

- Victor.


Bahhh don't even try to put Junk up to the same level as a FORD.. I have had 6 fords and never had any problems that cost me money.. I have a camaro and all I did was fix it, I had a dodge and took a mortgage out to repare it..


Steve

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

VWs aren't junk...they work fine if you get the right people to work on them. BTW, I have own 4 fords too. No problems with those cars. I seem to recall Ford had a thing with Tranys and electrical stuff for a while....

- Victor.

[Delphinus]

Well .... there are issues of reliability, which is one thing, and issues of abuse, which is another thing. There are two sides to my complaints here. One, I have to replace stuff that I think are completely unreasonable to replace at 150k. This is where I think the car was abused in the years prior to me owning it. Things that I should have found when I looked the car over, but I missed. So this is my own fault, and I'm mad at myself for it. Water under the bridge now though. Two, the cost of parts and the whole accelerated maintenance schedule is a little rediculous. I knew the cost of parts was high for Passats going into this. I've been driving Passats since 1996. It's just that as the designs get more and more overengineered, it gets harder and harder to perform routine maintenance and as such the cost of things that should be trivial suddenly become nontrivial. But the cost here is comparative to high-end sports car when in actual fact it is not a sports car but a sedan. This is where I'm mad at VW. I look back at all my invoices for the last 2 and half years and it really is astounding. These are costs I expect from cars that are much more expensive than this one was.

The steering rack as far as I'm concerned is an issue of reliability. However the tranny is not. This car has had abuse in a prior life. It's just coming to light now, now that I've finally broken down and decided to start really getting dirty. I pulled the clutch out last week and it's been since then that I've really noticed these other issues. If it was driven hard enough to damage the gears in the box, then it's conceivable that it is also an abuse issue with the rack. I just personally have a lot of misgivings about VW's steering racks since I've had another VW (my 1991 GTI) that ate racks like they were candy. It's possible that was a one-off thing but there was something about that car that caused it to wear through racks like nobody's business. So when someone says "VW" and "steering rack" I get soured. But it could just be random bad luck.

The real issue, the real issue that caution anyone about Passats in general, is the total cost of ownership. You're going to find this out if you keep your car beyond your warrantee period. These cars are low-end Audis, and the cost of parts reflect this.

When they're running, there isn't much to compare. They are some of the nicest cars out there IMO. I am a real lover of VW's (just starting to not love OWNING VW's).

It's like tridacnid clams. I love looking at tridacnids, but having some in my tank is the most stressful thing. "It is alright? Is it alright? ooops I looked at it wrong, and it died." Gaahhhh!!!!

Whatcha going to do. Oh well.

[titus]

Hello,

Hey Tony I feel for your problems bud. Can't believe that. Time for a S2000 eh. :D This bad boy is sooooo solid that it's beyond believe. I'm not talking about just driving. Even touching the body panels, they don't flex at all!

Titus

[canadawest]

Wow, great topic and one I can participate in with knowledge and experience!

I own a '99 VW Jetta which we bought new and the lease is up in less than three months. NEVER had a single problem with it in the four years we've had it, just regularly scheduled maintenance. Guess what the vehicle I'm getting in the next month or two is? Yup you guessed it another VW, an '03 Passat Wagon.

Delph, I'm not making excuses, but keep in mind that you bought a USED car and have no idea how the previous owner treated (or more importanly MIStreated the car). The issues you have had could be the result of many years of abuse that finally culminated into breakdowns during your ownership. This could have nothing to do with VW in general as this happens to any vehicle.

As for Ford, well I'm a Ford man too. Have owned two Mustangs and currently own a '96 Explorer which I've had since new. Yes Ford does have problems with their transmissions (had to have mine rebuilt at 105K kms) but considering that is the only major repair I've done in the almost six years of ownership, I'd say that is a small price to pay for a piece of machineary. I look at the total cost of unscheduled repairs on my Explorer over six years and it's been less than $3000. That's about $500 a year and to me is completely acceptable for an object with so many moving (and bound to fail) parts.

I have no hesitation in buying a new VW or a new Ford. I think vehicles get better and better made each year, and with the average warranties being 4 years/80K kms there is little reason to buy a used vehicle who's history you don't know. Sure you save a little on the purchase price, but I prefer to have the piece of mind of a new vehicle with full warranty and hopefully some improved engineering over the previous years models.

Just my $0.02 worth.

[reefburnaby]

Delphinus,

Now I can see your point. Your best bet to find cars that have cheap after-market parts or known to last. VW and Audi are not one of them. Sad but its true. If we lived in Germany, I don't think we would be having this discussion. VW parts are much cheaper there...

Hmm...well I have a newish Passat. I like every bit of the car except its reliability history (and maybe the price). It still bugs me to this day, but I am young and single. If my car dies...no problem...take the bus or walk to work. If it takes 6 months to service or wait for a part to arrive...fine, I am not in a big hurry. But once I get married...things change. I am not going to be fine if my VW broke down on the main bridge with my wife and kids on it. The wife isn't going to care about styling or handling or how the windows open with your key...if it doesn't start or leaks coolant all over the place. Even extended waranty is not going to save me.

So, what are you planning to do ?


- Victor.

[titus]

Hello,

The wife isn't going to care about styling or handling or how the windows open with your key...if it doesn't start or leaks coolant all over the place.
Haha, all of the times when the a married person comes in he has to
"consult" with the wife before purchasing. :roll: Only once had it been a wife needing to talk to the husband.

No marriage all the flexibility! 8)

Titus

[FishGeek]

Wanna hear of a POS. Never ever ever never........ never buy a GM car with the 3.4 liter engin from the 90's. This is by far the worst engine ever made. So bad that even GM mechanics don't want to touch it. I unfortunatly have a car with this engine. A 93 chev lumina Z34. This is what I have fixed in it so far. Alternator ($800) Timing belt ($1500) timing chain + timing belt($2500) complete frond end brake system($800) complete exhaust replacement w/ dual mufflers ($800)alternator($700) starter celinoid and starter thingys (800) front end brakes ($300) door handles ($60 X 4) and various small repairs. I don't drive my car hard and after all these repairs my car leaks oil, over heats, guzzles gas, and gets me to point A but barely gets me back to point B. Most of the repairs were done initially at GM mechanics but their incompitance made me go to smaller garages. This is by far the worst engineered car ever made. Let me explain how they have to replace my alternator. First the car's motor mounts must be unbolted, then the engine rocked forward, jack the car up, remove front wheels, remove front fender, drive shaft comes out, then the alternator is barely reachable. total labour is 5-7h depending on garage. Also the door handles are soo stupid. The handles on the car are vertical and attached to the side of the window. (Same as the beretta, OLDS cutless, pontiac grand prix) These handles are cast metal and become very very brittle past -15C. Meanning they snap. At one time, both my door handles were broken so I had to go through the trunk to get in.

Oh well, I'm getting a new car as soon as I'm done school so I don't have to worry about this for much longer. And atleast the heater works very well. I should only have to replace the timing belt once more before then :)

Hey anybody wanna buy a used car? :twisted:

Simon

[Delphinus]

At one time, both my door handles were broken so I had to go through the trunk to get in. Ouch. Ok, I suddenly feel a little better .... ;)


If we lived in Germany, I don't think we would be having this discussion. Very true. That's basically where this is at.


I own a '99 VW Jetta which we bought new and the lease is up in less than three months. NEVER had a single problem with it in the four years we've had it ...

Andrew, I don't want to rain on your parade, a new Passat is going to be one hell of a fun car. But .... just let me tell you ... there is NO comparison between maintaining a Jetta and maintaining a Passat. Having owned both and my parents still have theirs ... there is just no comparison in terms of supply of parts and cost of parts. Plus the Jetta is much less overengineered. You have a hope of doing some of the work yourself. The Passat ... forget it. If I own another VW it will be a Jetta.

keep in mind that you bought a USED car Yes I know. I went with a Passat because I was betting on the flagship VW to not have the same reliability issues that had been plaguing me in the past. But I made a bad bet in my case. I wish I could have $35k lying around so I could get into a new vehicle ... but I don't.



about $500 a year and to me is completely acceptable

Yes I agree that is a perfectly acceptable amount. $4000 per year isn't acceptable. Unless we're talking about a Ferrari or a very high end Porsche.

What is VW's warrantee up to these days? Didn't they just "double" it to a whopping two years? When just about every other manufacturer is more like 4 years or up, forgive my cynicism, but doesn't that say something? Maybe I'm just soured right now.

...

As for options right now, I'm looking at a tranny out of a G60 for about $1300. I can get a tranny out of another Passat (from ICBC) for about $2300. The G60 tranny will fit, but it's geared differently. More torque on the lower end, so basically a faster acceleration and a lower top end. Since I don't ever drive 200kph anyways, I find myself considering the G60 tranny. It has the added bonus that if it's a little more torquey then I'm actually better off because I sometimes pull my Hobie behind me. Am I crazy to think about this??? What are the downsides? What I'm particularly afraid of, is if I spend $2k (once labour and GST and all are taken into account), what guarantees do I have that the new tranny is any better than my old tranny?

After making a few calls yesterday it sounds like these tranny's are not rebuildable at all. So my choice so far, replace, or live with it. I can't sell the car as it is, so living with it is not really an option.

Am I nuts to consider the G60 tranny?

[reefburnaby]

Delp,

Personally, I would try to sell it as is. $2000 + labour for a new trany that may not fix all of your car troubles is not a good investment. If the trany is in bad shape...the chances of your engine having possible bearing failure or valve problems is very high. Its probably cheaper to buy a Civic or Corolla then to keep your existing car.

I am not sure about the recent Jettas, but I heard the new Mexican VW plant isn't very good and they also make the Jettas now.

- Victor.

[Delphinus]

Time for a S2000 eh.

Oh wow, no kidding, Titus!! What cool cars. Problem is, then I need a truck too, just for hauling around all my JUNK that I seem to accumulate. Boat stuff, aquarium stuff, the aquariums themselves ... :)

[canadawest]

What is VW's warrantee up to these days? Didn't they just "double" it to a whopping two years? When just about every other manufacturer is more like 4 years or up, forgive my cynicism, but doesn't that say something? Maybe I'm just soured right now.

All VW's now (2002+) come with a standard 4 Years/80,000kms bumper to bumper warranty (wear and tear items and adjustments excluded after the first 12 months/20,000kms) + 5 years/100,000kms Powertrain warranty + 12 year/unlimited kms corrosion warranty (nobody else offers this) They have dropped the 2 years/40,000kms "no pay scheduled maintenance warranty".

Seems like a pretty comprehensive warranty that meets or exceeds every other manufacturer. And sure is a far cry from the 2 year/40,000km warranty that our '99 Jetta came with, even if it did include all the regularily scheduled maintenance during that period.

Hell, Ford and GM still only offer 3 years/60,000kms warranties on their vehicles, which is the same as when I bought my '96 Explorer in '96. I don't know why the domestics just don't get with the program? In addition Honda, Toyota and Mazda also only offer a 3 year/60,000kms basic warranty on their vehicles, so VW has raised the benchmark to match the other German automakers like BMW, Audi and Mercedes and their better warranties.

I still much prefer to make a lease payment every month and know that I have a new, reliable, fun, technologically advanced vehicle that I will have no breakdown costs with for the next 4 years! When you calculate the total cost of ownership over 4 years when compared to a vehicle of lesser value but high maintenance costs, it is a no-brainer.

Only other choice is to buy a used vehicle that has good fuel economy, cheap parts, and a good service record, and they are hard to find.

[Canadian Man]

85 Crown Vic, Baby!!
The car of all Champion Reefers :D

Had it since 97 and put no more then $800.00 into it. That figure is including oilchanges and such.
I suppose the only downfall is city driving empties service station gas tanks very fast. :roll:
I practicaly need my own gas station :P

[Dale D]

I have no experience with Passats, but, I wouldn't mind a Platinum Gray one with the W8 in it. I can only imagine what repair costs on one of those would be like. :shock: :D

As for other VW"s .

I've owned a 92 GTI 16V since new (11 years this month :D ) and I have put about $500 into it in repairs in that time :D (replaced the fuel pump a couple years ago).

About 4 months ago I bought a 2002 Golf TDI (50-60MPG, 1200km/tank :D ). The GTI is going into semi retirement. I plan on keeping the TDI for at least as long as the GTI unless VW comes up with something new that I like more. :D

I've owned alot of different makes of vehicle (Ford, GM, Mazda, VW etc) and luckily never had a problem with any of them. But for now I can't see myself buying anything but VW's from now on. :D

JMHO

[UnderWorldAquatics]

Ive just been reading the threads so far but now Ill give my 2cents... Im a VW guy I have a very nicely built 92 16valve Gti, about 215hp and very fun to drive. VW trannies are crap!!!!!!! Ive blown 2 recently and now have a custom built race tranny with straight cut gears, vw trannies are rivited together and are 2nd gear bombs waiting to go off... if you get it rebuilt get a bolt kit to replace the rivets itll make it stronger.... as for the G60 tranny... its probably your best bet as it is one of the strongest trannies VW ever built. when you said around $1300 for the G60 tranny was that a fresh rebuild. Im buddies with a lot of performance VW shops and $1200 is for a well rebuilt tranny, like new. if you have a VR6 you can get a VW motorsports tranny for $4000 sequential 6speed with no clutch very fun to drive ;)

[Canadian]

This discussion leads me to suggest the following:

For those of you haven't read it, flip through the pages of Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert T. Kiyosaki. While the information regarding realestate investments and so forth isn't pertinent, the theories behind acquiring assets as opposed to liabilities are sure to open some eyes, or at least instigate some contemplation.

[Canadian Man]

Canadian

Well of course I couldnt agree with you more.
That's why I drive a POS old car that I got when I graduated from Highschool and own a rather expensive house. Of course if I could afford a new car it would be a new wolksvagen but that's a diffrent story. And I can't afford one cause I got a REEF :shock:

I feel pity when I see guys my age spending and worrying about having a new car when they should be thinking about other things.

Oh well.....makes me laugh :lol:

[Delphinus]

I basicaly just needed some space to vent some frustration. I have elected to rebuild my transmission, unfortunately at expense, however in the end I feel it will be worthwhile. Even if I were to unload the car, I am honour bound to disclose what problems I know about the car, or to fix them so that an unsuspecting buyer will not face problems down the road that would be in part on my own conscience. If I spend the money, well what I will have is some peace of mind, plus, I will get my car back that is basically a blast to drive.

Circumstances beyond my control brought me to this point. Well ... I don't know. Nobody forced me to buy a used car. Although, they kind of did. I -had- a good car that was reliable and within my means. But it was taken away from me. I wouldn't have bought this car when I did if it wasn't for that.

But, I feel it is a waste of time to dwell on how a person got somewhere. Rather, they should focus on where they go from there. This is my philosophy, and it works for me. Well, sometimes. I am tired, and I am not certain I am making any sense.

[Canadian Man]

Tony,
If you were reffering to me I didnt mean any bad feelings to be had by what I said.
I should have been more clear.
Canadian just brought us something that makes me laugh sometimes.

Dont forget I'm only 23. :shock: So when I was saying what I did, I ment that alot of the young guys that I work with make me laugh cause they live at home and all they have to worry about is what garbage to spend their next pay check on rather than doing something smart with a small portion of their earnings and maybe saving it. Very opposite of who I am.

So I was kinda not even refering to your origional post (yes off topic) but just refering t a brain laugh in my mind. I suppose I should have explained it better rather then assuming that people can read my mind.

Sorry

[Tau2301]

I seen a sig somewhere that read;

I spend half my money on a reef tank and the rest I wasted.

or something like that.

[Shadetree]

Tony,

Just to make you feel a little better, in August this year one of my work dump trucks had a "mishap". 1997 Chevy 3500 6.5 Turbo Diesel 5 spd. While cruising down Lougheed Highway there was a lound band and it died and coasted to the side of the road. It broke the crankshaft. $18,700.00 LATER it is back on the road again. The truck has only 140,000 kms on it and was only a couple months out of warranty, it had not met the warranty k but time had expired. The official word from Chevrolet Canada and the head diesel mechanics locally was....are you ready for this.....POOR DESIGN. I now have a 1997 6.5 TD with a new factory engine, new turbo, new injectors, new water pump, new clutch and new alternator for sale if interested. My sister has a 1999 VW golf that has given her huge headaches already. It cracked the oil pan with 7,000 k and was not covered under warranty. Under warranty they have had to remove and realign the engine twice though. Lastly, non serviceable parts are becoming more and more common in todays vehicles as they become over engineered, the six speed tranny in my 99 Ford Powerstroke diesel truck is worth over $7000. As a side note, my 99 Ram 2500 4x4 quad cab with snow plow has given ZERO problems in 4 years as of today. This truck towed a 5000 pound trailer for 1.5 years and plows snow every year, go figure.

Scott

[One_Divided]

I own a rusty 1984 chevy celeberty that's been in my family for more then 10 years. It has 230,500 kms on it, Insurence cost me 3 times what the car is worth, but do you see me complaining? Never! I can't get over the amount some people spend on their cars. Mind boggling!

[Aquattro]

I can't get over the amount some people spend on their cars. Mind boggling!

Almost as bad as reef tanks, right?? :D


BTW, Scott, haven't seen you in here for a long time!!

[titus]

Hello,

Time for a S2000 eh.

Oh wow, no kidding, Titus!! What cool cars. Problem is, then I need a truck too, just for hauling around all my JUNK that I seem to accumulate. Boat stuff, aquarium stuff, the aquariums themselves ...
Ha ya the S2000 is a bad boy. 8) You can get a Pilot for your larger loads. :o

But for me I'd rather drive a cheap car and spend all my money buying houses. :lol: That's the way to go!

Titus

[Quinn]

interesting advice. i drive a 92 2 door jetta, it's been great for the 10 months or so i've had it. i have no doubt that vw quality is dropping though, they're owned by ford now, after all.

did you know that a new muffler for a mclaren f1 is $15,000 US?

[Dale D]

Owned by Ford????????

Where did you hear that one from.

VAG owns VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda,Lamborgini, Bugatti and Bentlley(?)couple of others too I think. Fourth largest auto manufacturer in the world.

Never heard of them being owned by Ford though. :?

I'll have to post this on some of the VW boards I go to and see what they have to say.

[StirCrazy]

Dale D

I think ford does own controling stock in the parent company but they alow them to operate independent.. not sure but I know Ford have controling stock in Lamborgini, which would make sence that they own the parent company and this is how they have there intrest in Lamborgini.

the big 3 have been running around the world buying up large chunks of every company.. I would be surprised if there are many left that aren't majority owned by one of them.

as for Skota, are they still around? I was given one and I couldent find parts anywhare in NA and when I e-mailed the Skota in the chek republic they gave me the impression they are no longer in the car market... :roll: so I gave the car away

Steve

[canadawest]

I second Dale's comments... As far as I know (and I'm both a Ford and VW fan) Ford has no ownership in VW.

And you forgot to mention Porsche is also under VAG's umbrella! 8)

[Dale D]

Skoda's still around. They even have a WRC team. Their cars (Octavia etc) are pretty much just rebadged VW's I think. They've come along way from the rolling pieces of crap they produced in the 70's and 80's.

In the last 20 years I think just about everyone has owned Lamborgini at one time or another. Now VW does.

Ford owns Aston Martin, Jaguar, a large piece of Mazda and bunch of others. I think at one time in the 90's they took a look at VW, but, it never went any farther.

I don't think there is any official connection between VW and Porsche besides the family connection with Dr. Porsche. This comes up on VW boards alot and they are thought to be 2 seperate manufacturers.

Porsche as well as Lotus have aways done alot of design work for other auto manufacturers.

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Ford doesn't own significant stock of either VW or Lamborghini. In fact, Lamborghini is under Audi and VW owns 99% of Audi.

Ford has a market cap of 18 Billion, while VW has a market cap of 17 billion. If Ford had any involvement with VW....it would be a big merger. Porsche has a market cap of 9 billion.

Ford also owns Volvo and Land Rover. Ford owns 33% of Mazda stock.

Porsche AG is independent, but they do a lot of design work for other companies. In particular, they had a previous relationship with VW and Mercedes AMG.

Hope that helps.

- Victor.