DIY plans for Coil Denitrator [Archive] - Canreef Aquatics Bulletin Board

howdy20012002

01-16-2007, 05:26 PM

As I understand it, the concept behind a Coil Denitrator is a simple one.
Basically, as the water travels through the coiled air hose, it loses the oxygen content within it. This unoxygenated water and environment allows for bacteria, which just happens to have an appetite for nitrates, to grow in the container(in about 4 - 6 weeks). Thus, as the water travels through the media where the bacteria is, it loses the nitrate content and then exits back into the tank nitrate free or at least with a lowered nitrate content. it can take a few times for the water to go through the denitrator to lose all nitrates.
if anyone wants to add anything or correct anything please do.
I am far from an expert in this matter.

howdy20012002

01-16-2007, 05:49 PM

howdy20012002

01-16-2007, 05:50 PM

Part 1.
The most difficult part of this project is to drill and thread the pvc cap for the 1/4 inch valves.
You will need the appropriate tap and die set (or talk really nicely to someone that does) to thread the holes on the cap.
After you have drilled and threaded the holes, you then put teflon tape on the threaded ends of the quick connect valves and tighten them into the drilled holes.
Unlike shown in the picture, have the 1/4 valve (the one without the blue shutoff valve) on the inside of the cap, not on the outside.

A couple of things,
make sure you don't overtighten the valves. Being that everything is made of plastic, it wouldn't take that much to break something. it should be snug..but don't reef on it.
as well, wrap the teflon tape a few times around the thread as this will help stop leaks and make sure that things are waterproof.

howdy20012002

01-16-2007, 06:28 PM

Step 2
I basically had to come up with a way to connect the hose to the inside of the cap so that it would stay connected
I tried to glue it together with crazy glue, but apparently air hose and the quick connect valves don't like each other.
what I came up with was have the valve on the inside of the cap instead of the top of the cap. I then drilled out just enough of the inside of the valve so that the 1/4 inch airhose could go completely through the valve and out the top end of the cap.
I basically used a 1/4 drill bit and just slowly drilled out the valve.
Make sure that you go in the direction that the air hose will be going so that it dosn't push out the inside of the valve...IE, go in the direction of the valve.

howdy20012002

01-16-2007, 06:44 PM

Step 3
I used a more rigid airline so that I could have more control of where it was going. You could probably use a more flexible airhose if you wanted. However, I was concerned that by using a more flexible airhose, it would just all end up in the bottom of the tube and not spread out along the entire length of the pvc pipe.
Apparently from what I have read on the net, it is recommended that you have 75 + feet of airline for the oxygen to be removed from the water.
therefore, I bought 3 x 25 feet pieces of the 1/4 inch airline and connected them together using the quick connect unions.
I then duct taped one end of the airhose to the 4 foot piece of 1.5 inch PVC.
I then started to wrap it around the pvc pipe, until I had the 75 feet of airline wrapped around the 1.5 inch PVC.
once done, I taped the other end to the pipe so that I could let go and it wouldn't all unwrap. I then let this be for a few days so that the airline would actually form to the shaped that I wanted, which is just slightly smaller than the inside diameter of the 3 foot long 3 inch PVC pipe.

howdy20012002

01-16-2007, 07:18 PM

Step 4
After a few days to allow the airline to adjust to the new shape, it is now to time for the next step.
the next thing that needs to happen is to connect the toilet flange to the 3 foot 3 inch PVC pipe.
this toilet flange acts as a stand for the tube and allows it to stand on its' own.
the trick is to have the air tubing down at the bottom of the tube.
What I did was have the 4 foot piece of pvc with the airline wrapped on it inside the 3 inch PVC pipe and then undo the duct tape on the end of it so the end of the airline inside the 3 inch pvc. I then glued the flange onto the end of the 3 foot 3 inch tube. ensure you turn it abit so that the PVC glue settle properly.

howdy20012002

01-16-2007, 07:30 PM

Step 5 (you need 2 people for this part.)
I then put the flange on the ground so that the 3 foot PVC was straight up and down.
I then removed the tape off the end of the top of the airline tube.
ENSURE THAT YOU HOLD ONTO THE END OR ELSE THE TUBING WILL START UNRAVELING.
One person then need to start basically pulling out the 4 foot piece of 1.5 inch pvc out of the 3 inch pvc while pushing down on the airline tubing.
What you are doing is basically pushing the bottom end of the tubing off the pvc into the bottom of the 3 inch pvc.
as you pull more and more of the 4 foot piece out, more and more of the air tubing should be coming off of the 1.5 inch PVC and lining the inside of the 3 inch PVC as it goes up.
At the same time, the other person needs to be putting the bacteria media down the end of the tube so that it end ups in the bottom of the big PVC pipe, filling it the 3 inch PVC and pushing the airline to the inside wall of the 3 inch PVC Pipe.
you continue to do this till all of the 1/4 inch airline tubing is inside of the 3 foot 3 inch PVC pipe and the 3 inch pipe is filled with the bacteria media.

howdy20012002

01-16-2007, 07:35 PM

Step 6
the next step is to finish off the top of the denitrator
To do this you need to take the remaining airline (you need about 6 inches extra) and push it up throught the valve that you drilled out and up through to the top of the cap with about 3 or 4 inches outside the top of the cap.
Then using PVC glue, glue the top cap onto the 3 foot 3 inch PVC.
you have now completed the Denitrator.

howdy20012002

01-16-2007, 07:49 PM

Step 7
the only left to do is to set this up with your tank
I personally just stuck an airhose into the tank and connected that (after I started a siphon) to the denitrator using the quick disconnect union on the end of the airline tube coming out of the top of the denitrator.
Gravity then took over and filled up the 3 foot PVC denitrator (took about 10 minutes with just gravity feed)
I then connected a airhose to the quick connect valve with the control valve on the top of the denitrator.
After the tube was filled up, the water came up thru the exit valve and back to the tank through the airhose.
As long as the end of the tube is lower than the output on the denitrator, then gravity should work
If you don't have a sump, a pump would do the same affect and would allow the water to be push back up into the tank.
I adjust the flow of water to where it a constand, fairl rapid drip back into the tank.
the water outflow needs to be slow so that the bacteria has time to consume the nitrates. If it is too fast, there isn't enough contact time.

You could a pump of some sort to feed the denitrator if you don't like the idea of gravity feed.

howdy20012002

01-16-2007, 07:55 PM

that is about it.
All of these parts I used are available from most Home depots in the plumbing supply.
it will take about 4 - 6 weeks for the bacteria to form.
if anyone has any suggestions please add them.
If you have any questions, ask them.
I, again, fully admit that I am not an expert.
this design was just from what I found on the internet and making it into something that would work for me.
I am sorry if it gets confusing in some of the steps in my description.
I tried to make as simple as possible.
If you google DIY denitrators, you will come up with many plans such as this.
I hope this helps at least one person so that the 2 hours it took me to type this up is worth it..lol.
thanks
Neal

Delphinus

01-16-2007, 08:22 PM

Neal, one thing that I'm doing with my denitrator as I wait for it to cycle, is testing the output NO3 and NO2. Maybe you'd like to do something similar with this unit of yours, just to get an idea of how fast (or slow) it really takes to cycle in. And measure your effluent rate in terms of ml/min and stuff like that. :)

Nice simple design, I'm tempted to try one as well (would be nice to do a comparison to the sulfur denitrator side-by-side).

PS. We could start a collection for a pedicure :p

Farrmanchu

01-16-2007, 10:47 PM

Thanks for these plans, I intend to try one.

Der_Iron_Chef

01-18-2007, 02:57 PM

cav~firez22

01-19-2007, 03:42 AM

Well I started.

Bought a 6 Ft piece of 3" ABS and end caps.

will pick up the 1/4" line tomorrow as homedepot was out.

construction will start tomorrow

danny zubot

01-24-2007, 03:18 PM

Nice design. I've seen them with the coil outside of the 3" pvc as well, which seems like an easier route, but yours looks nicer.

Say, does anyone in Calgary have the appropriate tap and die set? *hint hint* :wink: I don't have a tap and die set, but with those fittings a bit of appoxy works well to create a good seal.

howdy20012002

01-24-2007, 03:34 PM

that is an idea.
just drill out the hole as big as the outside diameter of the fitting and then just silicon it.
a bit messier but probably just as effective.
there is really very little pressure on it and it probably woudl be fine.
Neal

TRIX

01-24-2007, 05:58 PM

I've got a tap and die set. I'm not sure what sizes it has but PM me if someone needs to borrow it. I have a fairly new tank so Frag would be considered a very much appreciated donation, LOL

mark

01-24-2007, 06:22 PM

danny zubot

01-24-2007, 06:28 PM

I always have a hard time finding them as well. Which home depot carries them?

howdy20012002

01-24-2007, 06:29 PM

you could definitely just run the 1/4 hose going in and out and silicon right around that.
Then you could just put a inline valve on the output tube before it goes back into the tank. that way you could control the output flow back into the tank to a medium rate drip.
I just did the threaded valves cuz it looks cleaner and I had access to a tap and die set.
However, whatever works.
good suggestion though and anyone can do that with a drill..which most of us have.
it would also save you a couple of bucks for the valves..minus the one inline valve.

kari

01-24-2007, 11:40 PM

Say, does anyone in Calgary have the appropriate tap and die set? *hint hint* :wink:

You don't need the die part :wink: just the tap part. It is a NPT1/4-18 tap and it's not going to be included in the typical tap/die set that you see at Can-Tire. They are fairly inexpensive and the drill size is 7/16". Mine has received a fatal impact with a concrete floor and will be replaced when my brain ram starts functioning again.

untamed

01-26-2007, 03:18 AM

The one thing I seen to be missing is why all the effort either sealing or using fittings where the 1/4" tubing passes into the PVC?

I'm assuming the 1/4" tubing inside the PVC is a continuous loop, the PVC is just to contain the 1/4" in a dark environment and bio-balls are put in, in same plans, just the hold the coil's shape. Wouldn't it work just as well if a couple of holes drilled in the cap a the line passing through?

Hmmm...I think that the coil delivers low oxygen water to the bottom of the chamber, then the water filters up through the bioballs. Based on this, the holes up top would have to be sealed well, but there would be little pressure against the seals.

BCOrchidGuy

01-26-2007, 11:10 PM

I believe that the coil delivers water to the bottom of the chamber that has no oxygen as it was used up in the beginning of the coil. The denitrifying takes place in the later part of the coil where the oxygen has been stripped from the water. The bio balls provide more surface for the bacteria that lives in oxygen starved environment so you get that extra anoxic area for the denitrifying bacteria to grow. Yes the system has to be sealed from outside air and from light as you don't want algae growing.

If I've got this wrong please let me know.

Doug

cav~firez22

01-26-2007, 11:43 PM

well i got mine complete. just having troubles with the outlet, at it is leaking. will be re siliconing it and trying again. i just need to figure out how to get the drips into a container to airaid, and then back to the tank, as i have no sump.. Filtration is a Fluvy 404.

kwirky

01-29-2007, 04:47 PM

have you been keeping track of your levels? any change so far in your amm/nitrite/nitrate? I'm really anxious to see what type of denitrification occurs without a direct carbon supply for the bacteria (sulphur denitrators, etc)

cav~firez22

01-30-2007, 01:01 AM

Well, im having troubles with mine. See idont have a sum, and i read several places that the water exiting should be airraided. so i need to fill into another little container that has an airstone in it, and then from there, drip into the tank, only problem is, im not putting a 3ft piece of pvc ontop of my tank. Anyone got a CPR overflow for sale? lol

howdy20012002

01-30-2007, 01:18 AM

I don't really think that you need to worry about aerating it.
You are only adding 2 or 3 drips a second, not really enough in my opinion to drop the oxygen levels in the tank.
Neal

cav~firez22

01-30-2007, 02:28 AM

I was wondering that, however i decided to get a few opinions from some long term reefers before i figure out how to get it in to my tank.

i was thinking of getting one of those drip things that are on a I.V. and dripping into the inlet of the Fluval and so be it. will try something im sure, and will get some pics and results of the after product as soon as i can.

BCOrchidGuy

01-30-2007, 04:12 AM

I've got a brand new overflow that I'm not going to use, it's not a CPR though. Did you consider having the effluent going into your skimmer? If not how about sending it into the intake on a power head.

Doug

Jaws

01-30-2007, 08:46 PM

Nice Work! What was the cost involved for everything and approximately how much time did it take you?

howdy20012002

01-30-2007, 09:03 PM

it took me about 2 hours in total..
the cost was under 50.00 bucks.
minus the media about 30.00 bucks.
the valves and the bacteria media were the most expensive.
thanks
Neal

cav~firez22

02-06-2007, 12:04 AM

Ya mine was around that as well.
I bought the airline from a pond store. 150ft roll for $10.00

i still havent hooked mine up yet. having issues with filtration right now....

cav~firez22

03-03-2007, 08:44 PM

Finally got my Coil DeNitrator up and running. No results yet, as it has been on the tank for an hour.

Drip rate is 1 - 2 / sec. and drips directly into the tank above the surface skimmer, so basically is drips into the surface skimmer, then goes throught filters and back out the other side. ..

will post Nitrate levals weekly to see how they drop. Currently , using Aquarium pharmasuticals tester,

Nitrate is @ 160 PPM as of 03/04/07 :redface:

kwirky

03-03-2007, 10:39 PM

Nitrate is @ 160 PPM as of 03/04/07 :redface:

OH MY GOD! lol
i panic when my freshwater's nitrates hit 25ppm lol

cav~firez22

03-03-2007, 11:01 PM

Just tested again after water change and 3 hours of denitrator (not having an effect yet i know...)

looks to be @ 80 ppm mg/L

hard to tell with these test kits.

Delphinus

06-13-2007, 04:16 PM

Bumping this old thread back to the front.

For those that tried the coil denitrator, how have your results been in the timeframe up until now?

cav~firez22

06-13-2007, 09:50 PM

Mine have dropped drammatically .. down to 20 ppm

quite impressed.

hal9000a

07-23-2007, 04:48 PM

So how have your results until now
and does someone use a pump ?
:microwav:

andresont

09-12-2007, 02:58 AM

the material needed:
1 - 3 foot piece of 3 inch black pvc
1 - 3 inch cap
1 - 3 inch to 4 inch toilet flange
3 - 25 foot 1/4 inch airline ( i used a the more rigid type)
4 - 1/4 inch quick connect union
1 - 1/4 inch shut off valve
1 - 1/4 inch quick connect valve
material for growing bacteria - (bio balls and ceramic rings)
1 - 4 foot piece of 1.5 inch pvc
duct tape
pvc glue
teflon tape.

How about using wider then 3” Black PVC ? say 5” pipe?
Then we can roll more tubing say 30% more, and leave it on the smaller diameter 1.5" PVC pipe. Now you don’t have to remove the inner 1.5"PVC pipe, just insert it together with air tubing inside the wider then 3” PVC and drop the bio balls or coral rubble inside.
So this is pretty much the same thing except now we have more uniform air tubing distribution with possibility of longer water travel within same hight unit just wider and one does not need a second person to unload the air tubing.
Maybe if cost is still low this can be done in even shorter but wider unit that will fit under the aquarium stand.
What do you think guys?

Der_Iron_Chef

09-12-2007, 03:08 AM

I think perhaps the only problem with a shorter/wider denitrator is that the water wouldn't have as much contact with the bio balls, which is where the real denitrifying occurs (if I'm understanding it correctly).

andresont

09-12-2007, 03:43 AM

Der_Iron_Chef

09-12-2007, 04:43 AM

I would think that would be perfectly fine.

Luke

09-14-2007, 07:03 PM

cav~firez22

09-14-2007, 07:45 PM

Hey all,

I just stumbled across this and was wondering if anyone has one of these running directly out of and back into a tank (as opposed to a sump)? If so, is a pump required? Thanks in advance.

Luke

Yes a pump is required. I had a MJ1200 running mine, but tried smaller and cheaper powerheads, currently, its being powered by a 5$ powerhead. I dont know the brand, but it came with ViaAqua NANO setup i bought.

any powerhead will work, and the chamber could take upto 30 mins to fill, due to such a small pathway, and the headpressure created by it.