i need help now

[draco]

please help me my tank is crashing and i am watching my fish die. i am panicking and i need help please.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

What happened? Did anything precipitate this, or are you without a clue? What are your tank parameters? Pics?

People are going to need more information if they're going to help you out!!

[draco]

im am sorry i am kinda breaking down. i know that i have high nitrates i have been doing water changes every day about 15%. but it was well on its way down. everything else has been fine. my fish are in a bucket of fresh saltwater and i feel so awful.i have 2 clowns and 2 firefish and a jaw fish. my tank has been going for almost 1 year and i have only had one death ever that was so long ago. were do i start to make this better.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

How are your corals? What kinds of behavior are your fish exhibiting to make you think they're dying?

[draco]

well one died. and they were trying to jump out of the tank. they are doing better in the bucket now. there gills were pushed out before they have relaxed now and are swimming not convulsing, but i cant leave them in the bucket. my corals are not so good i have a frog spawn that is just pulled in really far and my leather is leaning and my kenya is to. also my shrimp are alive and look fine(kinda wierd), and i haev feather duusters which dropped their plumes a few days ago, but now the worms are crawling out but when i touch them they go back in. and i found many dead bristle worms in my tank.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

That's tough. What water are you using? My immediate thought was that you were doing lots of water changes, and THEN things started to die.

If it were me, I'd do some large water changes (with RO/DI water) and run some carbon in the canister filter or something. Take any foam pads or filters out and just run carbon.

How's the temperature?

Don't know what else to say, man. I'm certainly not an expert...maybe someone else can chime in here.

[draco]

that i can do, but what should i do with my fish until i can get my water going good. i just noticed that they now have ich i think. i know what it lookes like in fresh water i dont know about saltwater, but it is tiny white dots. should i set up a smaller tank with just my fish and surviving coral? or risk putting them back? i do not want to do anything to hurt them. should i change all my water?(i know that is not usually good although i was told can be done)

[Ruth]

Need more information. What are all of your levels at:
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate
Calcium
Alk/DKH
Magnesium

What size is your system and what did you have in there? What filtration?
Out of curiousity what salt are you using?

[draco]

my ammonia and nitrite were fine, my nitrate was on the high side a few days ago, and has been dropping, my alkalinily is in the normal range and my ph was 8.2. i have a 55 gall with a prisim protien skimmer, a fluval 304, 2 seio powerheads, power compact lighting, and i have 62lbs of live rock, i took it slow adding things, i listened to everythiing everyone told me. i have 2 fire fish, 2 clown fish, 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 fire shrimp, zoos, leather coral, kenya coral, frog spawn, and hammer all my coral is just tiny frags no bigger than a fist, lots of hermits and i had a royal gramma just got her about 3 weeks ago.

[MikeP]

If you can set up a hospital tank then do it. If your fish are showing signs of ich then you can treat them with medication on their own in the hospital tank. I would leave your main tank as it is and keep monitoring it. What level is the salinity at?

[niloc16]

take out the filter floss from the fluval, only run carbon. i'm guessing you did too many water changes and the new saltwater did not have time to fully dissolve, did you test the parameters of each new batch of saltwater you made? rapid changes in water parameters reak havoc on the system. stable conditions is more important than achieving an ideal number. do a full test of all parameters on your tank and post on here what you get. let the tank sit for a couple days and settle out. its one thing to do a 50% change in a day but if you were doing a change every day than more than likely thats what has happened. acclimate your fish that is in the bucket to your tank for about 45 minutes and then put them back in. hope this helps. the more info you give us on your water parameters the more we can help. if you have added nothing in months and only thing that has changed is the multiple water changes then that has to be it

[danny zubot]

If your fish have developed Ick I wouldn't put them back into the tank. Set up a hopsital tank so you can treat them with hyposalinty or copper if need be.

Watch your LPS, if they are doing ok then I wouldn't worry about your softies. If your shrimp are doing ok then we're looking better.

Your bristle worms are a good indicator that something is definately wrong though. Did something die in the tank recently, before your first fish, like a coral perhaps? What is the popluation of your bristle worms? Sometimes they reach a critical population and start inter and intra specific warefair with themselves and other creatures. This can ultimately cause a NO3 spike because of all of the death. I've also seen a die off of worms and snails caused by ALK and PH spikes.

Check you electical as well to make sure there are no shorts etc.

I think the most important thing to do though, is not panic. Slow down and really anylize your situation, don't do anything too drastically, that could make things worse.

So you have a sandbed?

[draco]

i keep my salinity at 0.023. oh and i figured out what the wite dots where this is stupid of me, but i ws in such a rush to get my fish out of the tank that i didnt fully mix my salt and it rested on some of the fish they are fine that way now, but they still have no home

[Ruth]

You do need to tell us what your test #'s are - not just fine or high but the actual # from the test.
I agree you may have tried to do too much too fast (as in water changes). Before you put your fish back in the tank please post your test #'s and we can give you a little bit more help.

[niloc16]

i totally agree with ruth. it is a positive sign though that your shrimp are doing good, like ruth said.

[draco]

there were alot of briste worms all over just hanging out of the rocks i have never actually seen one in my tank until now. i havnt lost any of my pets(animals i have purchased) recently, but i dont really know what might have been living in there. so you think that i sould do a big water change then add my fish back in. and run only carbon in my filter. ohhh i have been using something in my filter called greenX, do you think that this may have done something to my tank? i dont know what happens when it has expired or it is does.

[niloc16]

never heard of greenx my self. i would not do another water change until you post on here what the parameters are currently of the main tank. dont add fish or anything until you do this.

[draco]

sorry i have a red sea marine lab test kit. my alkalinity is 1.7-2.8,my nitrite is 0.2, and my nitrate is 20,

[draco]

my ammonia is 0

[Ruth]

Those #'s don't look too bad to me although you are showing some nitrite so that is not great as it means that something is not quite right. IMO Red Sea are not the most accurate tests and if at all possible it might be worth your while to either try and borrow some Salifert or Elos test kits (or if you have a friend with those test kits take a samle of water over and re-test it) or if there is a saltwater fish store in Drayton Valley take a sample in there and have them test it.
I have no experience with greenx but I do know that it is a phosphate remover. The only thing I would run in your canister filter for the next while (say a couple of weeks) is carbon and change it out often (say every 3-4 days) Also make sure that you have a quality carbon to run. I know that you can buy some very good quality carbon from Prairie Reef Supplies for a very reasonable price.

[draco]

thank you guys so much for your support. so you think that i am safe to re-add my fish? i took a turkey baster and squirted the live rock and a buch of worms have come off should i re-siphon my tank or leave them? i have already drained like 20% today.

[Ruth]

If you have a bunch of dead worms in there you want to get them out - they will only pollute the tank as they decompose. I know that we have said not to do any more water changes but if you have dead stuff in there then you are going to have to.
Another thing you might want to consider at this point is to remove your sandbed and go bare bottom - at least for a while. If you have dead bristleworms visible on your rock you can be sure that there are probably a lot more dead in your sand bed.
You want your tank stabilized before you add you fish back in. Maybe just run your canister filter on the bucket you have your fish in and throw a few pieces of live rock in there for filtration.
If it were my tank I would remove all inverts and corals to a bucket - mix up a fresh bucket of water - remove the rock and swish it around real good in this bucket of fresh water then siphon out the sand bed and probably most of the water. Then put most of the live rock back in and top off with more freshly mixed up water - test for a couple of days to make sure you don't get a cycle - then as long as your tests indicate it is OK add you livestock and corals back in.

[andresont]

I would like to introduce a theory. (Could be wrong , but hey, you never know)
Could worms try to spawn? i had this happen once in my 108 Gal., and one worm started waiving its tail spraying white goo (sperm).
After that they all have gone like creasy doing the same. Water was like a milk, however cleared up fast, if that happened to your tank at night you might have missed the show but end up with a lot of toxic material in the tank so everything started to suffocate slowly. In small tank this could get to a point of no return very quickly. What do you think? I agree about doing small water changes more often rather then big one, this shocks everything even when al live stock is doing OK.

[Reefhawk1]

I have a couple of questions.

How do you mix your salt?

How much water flow do you have in the aquarium?

Can you post some pictures?

[mark]

Do you normally age your SW for a bit before adding to tank?

Though when I first started did with no ill effects, have read if just adding salt to water, mixing then adding immediately to tank can irritate fish.

[danny zubot]

If you have dead bristleworms visible on your rock you can be sure that there are probably a lot more dead in your sand bed.


I second that. I had that happen with a bunch of these little sand sifting snails (can't remember ther name of them) and while my tank didn't crash, I did have a cyano bloom.

[draco]

i just mix my salt in a pail. and then i put it back in, as soon as it looks dissolved. i dont let it cure very long at all. i am affraid of leaving my tank low on water. i have alot of flow in my tank i cant tell you exactly how many gallons are being pushed but i can tell you that i have 2 sieo 65 powerheads and a fluval 304. i borrowed a freinds protien skimmer to add on next to mine for a while. both of our skimmers are pulling a really wet skim even on the lowest setting. mine is a prisim and his is a coralife. i tested my water last night and the nitrite and nitrate were almost zero, but my ph had dropped to 7.8 my fish are in a bucket still with a heater i am affraid to put them back.

[draco]

i dont know how to get my pics on here

[howdy20012002]

u should let your fresh salt water sit overnight with a heater and powerhead in the future(after this crisis)
freshly made salt water can be quite harsh to the fish/corals/tank.
The fact that your aren't doing this could be creating the problem in the first place.
I am far from being an expert on anything however and am just making suggestions.
HTH
Neal

[draco]

i am open to every suggestion there is. what do you think of instant ocean salt?

[Pan]

i just mix my salt in a pail. and then i put it back in, as soon as it looks dissolved. i dont let it cure very long at all. i am affraid of leaving my tank low on water. i have alot of flow in my tank i cant tell you exactly how many gallons are being pushed but i can tell you that i have 2 sieo 65 powerheads and a fluval 304. i borrowed a freinds protien skimmer to add on next to mine for a while. both of our skimmers are pulling a really wet skim even on the lowest setting. mine is a prisim and his is a coralife. i tested my water last night and the nitrite and nitrate were almost zero, but my ph had dropped to 7.8 my fish are in a bucket still with a heater i am affraid to put them back.

you are afraid of leaving your tank low on water? Don't take the water out until you've mixed and let the new saltwater sit. your not topping off due to evaporation with saltwater are you?

[draco]

that makes sense. no i top off with fresh RO water, but i do my changes with tap water. i think i may be through most of this now. my leather coral is standing up more and my water is clear. however my 2 firefish and my jaw fish did not make it through this. my clowns are back in the tank and doing ok so far. i am still looking for any advice, you can never know everything right. and i dont want to mess up again. i am off for a boxing day sale is it worth looking into a new filter, i am not familiar with the canister filters. i have a fluval right now and i dont like it. also i noticed from running my friends coralife skimmer that it is pulling more out than my prisim. any comments?

[craignlisa]

that makes sense. no i top off with fresh RO water, but i do my changes with tap water. i think i may be through most of this now. my leather coral is standing up more and my water is clear. however my 2 firefish and my jaw fish did not make it through this. my clowns are back in the tank and doing ok so far. i am still looking for any advice, you can never know everything right. and i dont want to mess up again. i am off for a boxing day sale is it worth looking into a new filter, i am not familiar with the canister filters. i have a fluval right now and i dont like it. also i noticed from running my friends coralife skimmer that it is pulling more out than my prisim. any comments?

Okay what they were trying to say was"you need to make up water in a something big, like a garbage can about 24 hours before you want to do your water change. Add a power head and a heater and let it sit for the 24 hours.That way when you do your water change the salt is dissolved completly and aereated. Adding fresh salt to your tank that looks dissolved is not always dissolved as you learned with the specs on your fish. And it burns them when it lands on them so that is not helping. Is there a reason why you use r/o for top offs but not water changes. To me that defets the purpose of adding r/o at all. The tap water will add to a phosphate problem which will not help. And i used to live in Drayton and no there water quality sucks...lol
The filter is not a bad one. Depends on what you can get there not sure haven't been there in about 6 months so am unsure about that. I would just see how things go from here and yep upgrade the skimmer if you upgrade anything.

LIsa

[draco]

i was told it is the most important with top up cause you are not taking anything out. where on a water change you are taking out so you can put the tap water back in. i dont know, but i have access to the RO water easily so i think that i will do my changes with it from now on. and leave it to cure for awhile.

[untamed]

i was told it is the most important with top up cause you are not taking anything out. where on a water change you are taking out so you can put the tap water back in. i dont know, but i have access to the RO water easily so i think that i will do my changes with it from now on. and leave it to cure for awhile.

Whoever told you that one is just plain incorrect.

Just to be clear...
Evaporative top up - use RO water
Water change - use SW mixed using RO water.

Just don't allow tap water to ever enter the system. Plain and simple.

My $.02: I do 10% water change weekly using SW that I mix and use immediately after mixing. It's not the best procedure, but it has never caused me any problems in 3 years. In fact, due to the new SW being cold, the tank temp drops by nearly 2 degrees C each time I do it. Bad...but no dramatic effect like you are experiencing.

[craignlisa]

Are you adding prime or anything to the tap water when you put it back in?

I would agree just forgo the tap water all together. That can lead to more problems.

Lisa

[draco]

i do use prime. but my husband sometimes uses way to much, what kind of effect can that have?

[craignlisa]

Hmmm i dunno if that would have an impact or not. I would maybe check out seachems site in regards to that. How are things with the tank now. The remaining fish are okay? Levels are back to normal?

Lisa

[draco]

everyhting is back to normal finally. i only have 2 clowns left and my coral looks like it is going to pull through. my xania and zoos are still alive but not doing well. i will just hope for the best with them. everything even my ph and nitrate are great. this was definetly a learning experience. and i hope that it is over.