small puffers?

[marcingo]

Just wondering if anyone knows if there are saltwater puffers that stay under 3 or 4 inches in size? I tried to look it up on the internet but not much success. All I have found is brackish dwarf puffers.

Thanks.

[Kabong]

5" is about as small as salt water puffer's come
Saddle Valentini Puffer is probably your best option for small SW puffer.
http://vieoceane.free.fr/paf/images/fichef2d_clip_image016.jpg

[marcingo]

great thanks. I guess there goes my idea of having a small puffer in a 10 gal.

[Pan]

Valentini should not get more than 4 inches, the saddle puffer gets 5 inches or so...and the mimic saddle is about 4 as well.
but even these little guys are mean...

[marcingo]

i dont mind them being mean- since it would be the only fish in the tank. But do you think they would be ok in the 10? Probably not hey.

[Chaloupa]

my little Valentini isn't mean at all...he keeps to himself and always has...don't know that I would want him in a 10g though...he does enjoy a good fast swim along the length of the tank!

[Pan]

wow should have seen my valentini take off after my little goby, killed a fire shrimp as well....little bugger. He is cute though, like 1.5 times the size of my thumb :)

[tranvictor]

Some of those brackish puffers can acclimate to full salt. I know the green spotted puffer is capable of full salt. 10 gal is a bit harsh for these little guys, they are quite active swimmers, and messy eaters. So you're prob. looking at a water change every other day.

[marcingo]

I have also read that most puffers can acclimate. Do you know if the figure 8 can acclimate? I know that one figure 8 in a 10 gal should be fine due to their small size but Im not sure if they can actually acclimate. Although dont get me wrong once they outgrow I will obviously upgrade to a larger tank for them.

Also as for the Vanlentinis. Say I got a tiny one less than an inch. From what I have researched they grow very slowly, it should be ok in the 10 for a while correct?

[Mr. Scratch]

Should be okay, but are you 100 Percent certain you can put him somewhere okay when he gets bigger, also they make a lot of waste and are messy eaters :)

I've seen all kinds of fish acclimated to salt water...if you have the time and resources....don't know if any can be but i've seen a few weird ones.

[Flusher]

If you put a puffer in a tank that's too small for it, it will get stunted growth, and this will shorten its life expectancy. Puffers are notoriously bad for this, along with loaches.

Green Spotted Puffers need light brackish water as juvies, and full marine conditions once they're about 6 months old. F8s are light brackish fish (SG 1.004 to 1.008). There are a LOT of puffers that are purely freshwater, too.

Here's a short but accurate list of a few puffers:

http://www.pufferlist.com/

HTH
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[marcingo]

Ok so for a full grown valentini puffer would a 20 gallon long be a good size tank?

[Flusher]

That'll do it, I'm sure. Even a 15 long should be good.

All I have found is brackish dwarf puffers.

I missed this earlier. Dwarf Puffers are one of the FW-only species.
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[Mr. Scratch]

i doubt anything less than a 30 should be used, but to each his own. I've had several and after some research and experience i realized they are quite messy, can be quite hostile to inverts, nip corals, other fish and create huge amounts of waste for a fish their size, for to grow the way they should they need a lot of food. Which is the reason i no longer keep them, well i have a little one i'm giving away but thats it (it was a gift from someone who should know better then to buy a fish for someone as a gift)

[marcingo]

great thanks for the help everyone.

[Flusher]

i doubt anything less than a 30 should be used, but to each his own.

Yeah, that might be true. I had a lot of FW puffers, so big water changes to offset their mess wasn't so much of an issue. Then again, an oversized skimmer and larger weekly water changes on a smaller tank should do the trick. I guess it depends on how much time you want to spend maintaining the tank. I was spending way too much time doing water changes back when I had a lot of FW tanks set up, so I downsized.

I knew a guy who had a small puffer in a 10 gallon tall tank. apparently it did well until the tank crashed. Go figure...
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[marcingo]

That'll do it, I'm sure. Even a 15 long should be good.



I missed this earlier. Dwarf Puffers are one of the FW-only species.

So when you said this you were refering to FW puffers? I was under the impression you were refering to the valentini puffer- saltwater. What would you consider a good sized tank for a full grown valentini?

Has anyone ever heard of a puffer being raised to leave corals alone? Maybe I can keep him in the 10 gal- and slowly add coral frags from my 55 gal reef (all soft corals in there). Then if he proves to be ok the whole issue of not having a big enough tank for him wont be an issue anymore. Anyone heard of any success stories of puffers who can be raised to be reef safe? My reef is mostly zoos and palys so wouldnt the palytoxin keep him away from the zoos?

[Flusher]

Just to be absolutely clear, all my input should be taken with the understanding that the puffer isn't going to have any roommates. Puffers eat mollusks, crustaceans, and snails. Their beak was designed for that. They are also territorial and aggressive, and don't tolerate other fish, often not even their own kind.

Mr. Scratch, was your experience keeping puffers in a reef tank or in a community setting? If so, yeah, I understand more where you're coming from.

So when you said this you were refering to FW puffers? I was under the impression you were refering to the valentini puffer- saltwater. What would you consider a good sized tank for a full grown valentini?

The basic rules apply for FW and SW puffers. Puffers need lots of water volume because they're messy and not horribly tolerant of poor water conditions. They also need a tank big enough not to stunt their growth.

A 6" puffer needs at least 30 gallons, hands down. A 4" puffer is quite a bit smaller than a 6" puffer (in the same way that a 1" overflow can handle way more flow than a 3/4" pipe). You could put a couple 3"-4" F8 puffers in a 20 gallon tank, but one 6" GSP would be cramped.

The dimensions of the tank are also an issue. A 20 gallon long is better than a 20 gallon tall. There's more surface space and more swimming room.

So, I figure your 20 long would be about as good as a 30 gallon with more standard dimensions. The Valentini's only grow about 4". I think this is a safely do-able fish-to-tank combination, provided you keep tabs on the water quality and keep up on the maintenance to make sure it's good to go.

Has anyone ever heard of a puffer being raised to leave corals alone?

I think mainly it's the clean-up crew they go after, although they do nip corals, probably out of curiosity. I knew another guy who had a Valentini in a reef tank without issue. My understanding is that this is an exception to the norm. Puffers, IMO, should be kept in species-only tanks, and often as singletons. They're worth the extra space.

HTH
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[marcingo]

That helps a lot. Thank you for your input.

[Mr. Scratch]

Just to be absolutely clear, all my input should be taken with the understanding that the puffer isn't going to have any roommates. Puffers eat mollusks, crustaceans, and snails. Their beak was designed for that. They are also territorial and aggressive, and don't tolerate other fish, often not even their own kind.

Mr. Scratch, was your experience keeping puffers in a reef tank or in a community setting? If so, yeah, I understand more where you're coming from.

HTH

My experience was with a reef tank, I think puffersare beautiful fish, though valentinis/saddles/mimics are the only ones i tried in a reef. I others in a FO tank but that was a few years ago, and not the type of tank i wanted. The little guys on the other hand, I kept hearing that people succesfully kept them in reef tanks. So after a little research I decided it was worth trying (most of what i read split down the middle as to wether or not they are reef safe) for instance liveaquaria (good place to check basics out if you do not wish to look up more detailed information) lists the valentini as not reef safe, I have had 3 valentinis, I have 1 now that is semi-ok (he kills little shrimp, and nips at things occasionally but I am waiting to decide on him) 2 that i tried were terror in the reef setting, my mimic saddle puffer and my saddle puffer were also horrible, all were returned after a few months to the LFS for a credit, considerably less credit then was used to purchase them i might add.

Here is the write up from liveaquaria.com (please note the information they provide is not always completely correct, but better safe than sorry)

A 30 gallon or larger, fish-only aquarium is suitable. It will fight with conspecifics such as the filefish, large finned fish, and other tobies. It may be aggressive at times, nipping the fins of tank mates, leaving a circular hole as its mark. It will also eat invertebrates found in a reef tank. Its teeth are actually a fused beak-like structure.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Hi

I have kept several different Puffers for quite a few years now. There are no Puffers suitable for a 10G except freshwater dwarf puffers. 20G isn't really any better! You need a 30G for a Valentini. I currently have a 65G FOWLR with a Green Spotted Puffer (who spent a year and a half in light brackish, high end brackish and finally marine, a 6 month old GSP should NOT be in marine conditions!), Valentini Puffer, Blue green chromis, Dwarf Lion fish, and Flame Angel. There have been no aggression problems what so ever BUT it all depends on your fish. I have another GSP's that could never have tankmates, it would rip them apart, he is on a 40G, alone. And a 40G is pushing it, as he is just about 6 inches and very thick. My Valentini is about 4.5 inches and also very timid. I would say, the most aggressive fish in the tank is the Flame Angel.

Puffers are very entertaining and fun but you need perfect water conditions and a small tank cannot handle their bio load. Most peoples advice in this thread was right on though and you would do well following it!

Just some thoughts and experiences on Puffers!

Good Luck!