Grounding probe!

[FishGeek]

I'm going to be making a grounding probe and I wanna make sure I'm doing this right! All I have to do is find a stainless steel object, wrap wire around it and attach the wire to the grounding prong of the plug in and plug it in? Is that right? Any advice would be good before I electrocute myself and have fried fish!

Tanks
Simon

[Canadian Man]

Simon,
I dont know if stainless steel will cut it as an item you can put in a salt environment.
I don't have any first had experience but I do believe it will rust.

I have heard of going to radio shack and getting conductive foam of some sort.

As far as your wireing goes to make a slick unit take a dremel tool and cut the Power parts off the cord and just leave the grounding prong.

Or you could wire it into a diy light set up and just attach it to the ground somewhere there but, you may not have such an option.

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

The other alternative is to visit a high end bike shop and ask for titanium spokes or bolts -- high end bike guys like titanium. Titanium frames, spokes, seat posts, cranks...everything to loose as much weight as possible. Titanium is much better for corrosion resistance in saltwater.

- Victor.

[StirCrazy]

stainless steel will rust in salt water.. if you are going to do this ude Titanium like Victor pointed out.. but for the 24 bucks it would cost to buy one I hardly think this is a good candadate for DIY.. you might save 4 bucks.... :roll:

Steve

[EmilyB]

I went to a bike shop up here once and asked for a titanium spoke, and the guy said " Are you nuts? Maybe in Europe....titanium spokes don't have the strength for bikes up here.." then he rolled his eyes a bit, and I mumbled something about an aquarium and crawled out...

Gee, that sounded like one of your stories Tony :lol: 8) :wink:

[Delphinus]

That does sound rather eerily like something that could happen to me. I like the part about mumbling something about an aquarium and then leaving. I'm sure there are a LOT of stores with staff that think "Aquarium people are very odd" ... !!! :)

[Aquattro]

I went to a bike shop up here once and asked for a titanium spoke, and the guy said " Are you nuts? Maybe in Europe....titanium spokes don't have the strength for bikes up here.."

Is that because Calgary has so many more areas of rough terrain than Europe? Hmmm....

[FishGeek]

Ok if stainless steel rusts, than what do they use on the $35 grounding probes from the LFS? And what type of screws do they use in submersible pumps like the Mag series pumps? Aren't they all stainlesssteel?

Simon

[StirCrazy]

yup they are stainless and as I saw today both mine are rusted if you lookat mag drives they are intended for fresh water use.. and there are several threads stating to put silicone ove the bolts to keep them from rusting away.. I just keep a eye on mine but both mag drives I cleaned today had rusted bolts. stainless is fine for fresh water.. but salt water will rust it.. Titanium is what salt water versions should be made if..

I have the titanium heaters in my tank.. some one used the stainless ones by mistake and they were all rusted in a month.. this is the same reason that titanium is used for chillers in reefs but fresh water chiller units are fine being stainless.

I have also seen two types of grounding probes.. one made of stainless and another made of titanium that stated "salt water" on it

Steve

[FishGeek]

I just read on reefcentral that grounding probes can cause more harm than good! Now I'm confused. The reason I'm making one is because of my friends tank. He said that he was getting zapped by his tank. I put my finger in the water and felt nothing but when he put his in, he'd get shocked! It looked quite painful too. I tried several times but I never felt a shock. He said that I was insensitive. We started unplugging stuff one by one and found his pump to be the culprit. I thought that a ground probe would be his solution but on canreef they are saying it will make it worse. Right now he can't replace the pump untill he can find a replacement. So what do we do? The pump is a beckett 535 pond pump. Is there anyway to fix the voltage leak?

Simon

[StirCrazy]

ya I don't use one my self.. it is a two way debate.. under cirtian situations they are good and under others they are not good.. I think a good GFI is all you ned personaly..

some people are a lot more sensitive to electric shocks than others.. so it is normal for one person to feel somethign while another cant.. but adding a ground probe could just make a open circut in that case and trip the GFI so you have to watch it..

is there a reason you can't change the becket pump for a mag drive of simular flow?

Steve

[reefburnaby]

Stainless comes in many grades. The stainless used in screw heads on Mags and shafts in powerheads are usually no. 316. 316 is more resistant to saltwater environments and they tend to last a couple of years if they are always submerged in low oxgen areas. If they are exposed to air and saltwater...they will rust very quickly. Eventually, all stainless will corrode in saltwater -- it is just a matter of how long.

I agree with Bard, it is a DIY project that may cost more the real McCoy.

As for the Titanium spoke thingy...I don't think that saleperson knows what they are talking about. The big thing about titanium bike parts is that they are just as strong as steel, but they weight half as much.

As for ground probe or not. Ground probes only work if you use it with a GFCI. GFCIs only work with devices that have a ground prong or grounded surface. So...if you have a powerhead with a two prong AC connector and you are not using a ground probe, then the GFCI will no protect you from the powerhead.

- Victor.

[FishGeek]

He has a mag 5 sitting around but it can't handle the head pressure and hardly any flow come from it. The beckett on the other hand seems to have better head preasure. This is his main system pump. He is trying to purchase an inline Li'l giant or quiet one, but are too expensive for him right now.

[Delphinus]

Just out of curiousity, how much do these Beckett pumps go for? The "Quiet Ones" seem to retail for about $160, which is about the cheapest I've ever seen an inline pump retail new.

I think Steve touched on this point a little, but I'm going to mention it anyways. A grounding probe isn't going to solve your voltage leakage problem. It just takes the stray voltage and puts it to ground. If you had a GFCI on your circuit, this would trip the circuit. The only reason you would want a grounding probe and a GFCI in combo is for human safety. The grounding probe causes a ground fault, the GFCI shuts off the circuit. So, it's good and safe for you to put your hand in the tank at any time, but if something were to happen when, say, you were at work or something ... you have a flatlined tank for who knows how long. So, it's not like it's for safety of the tank inhabitants. Well, I guess it is, but what I mean to say is, there is no substitute for components that don't leak voltage. If you have a widget in your tank leaking voltage, then, well, I'm not sure you can fix that. Even if you could repair that pump, I'm not sure you'd really want to. I look at things from the point of view that "sooner or later, anything and everything will fail." So if something is giving me cause for mistrust, well basically I never trust that thing again. Junk it, or maybe use it to mix salt or something, but never again I'd use it for something "mission critical." Not worth the risk.

BTW, you can pick up a voltage meter from Radio Shack for about $10. Not a bad little investment. Every once in a while I'll test my tanks for stray voltage.

[StirCrazy]

Stainless comes in many grades. The stainless used in screw heads on Mags and shafts in powerheads are usually no. 316. 316 is more resistant to saltwater environments and they tend to last a couple of years if they are always submerged in low oxgen areas. If they are exposed to air and saltwater...they will rust very quickly. Eventually, all stainless will corrode in saltwater -- it is just a matter of how long.

I agree with Bard, it is a DIY project that may cost more the real McCoy.

- Victor.

Um did my name change to Bard? hehe

ya 316 is what they are and they start to rust after 1 month in our tanks (I have two comfermations of this now :( I should have taken pics yesterday they would have ilastrated this perfectly) the problem is our tanks are "High in O2 and they are salt water. as Victor stated not a good mix for stainless. No Aluminum will last forever as long is it doesent rub against anything but it also might leach off undesiriable elements to the water so it is no good. during my search for a part for a DIY chiller I found Titaniums is the best metal we can use because it is totaly inert.. it just burns something crazy if you get it hot enuf :shock: :lol:


As Delphinus stated I touched on it because I didn't want to start a pro vs con argument for gounding probes here, but I will not use them.. I feel they hide the problem as aposed to letting you know. about it. also they are designed to work in a NON GFI circut, other wise you will be resetting your breaker allthe time, so as Delphinus stated if you have it in a NON GFI circut you will never know you have a problem with one of your pumps. I do tests with a multi meter once a week to see if there is stray voltage in y tanks.

Steve

[canadawest]

J&L sells a RID-VOLT grounding probe made from Titanium for only $19.99, so I don't get what this DIY discussion is about?

I'd be surprised if you could buy a titanium bike spoke, wire and ground plug and put it all together for substantially less than that.

[Canadian Man]

Well, Canadawest is correct.

I Manage a bicycle shop and DT makes Titanium spokes but for a shop to get some it they have to purchase 72 of them at a time.

Each DT Titanium spoke retails for aprox $4.00.
So you may be able to make one for a few dollars less but just purchase the one from J&L if you are going to use one on your tank.[/quote]

[FishGeek]

All the problems have been solved! We were able to find a used quiet one pump so the beckett is no longer in use. The reason we were gonna build a ground probe is because we needed it asap and did not what to pay $35 for it from a LFS. I would have costed $5 from Revy to build with a SS rod and wire. My friend is gonna take the beckett back to where he purchased it from and get a mag drive instead. And for who was wondering, the becketts cost about $160.

Simon

[TANGOMAN]

I must have went to the same bike shop...I now have to travel to Edmonton to get my bike repaired... "I feel so ashamed" You should see the guys at Home Depot when I walk into the plumbing isle. You'd think I was carrying the plague...