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View Full Version : Nano size and other stuff


StirCrazy
10-22-2002, 05:15 AM
who decided 15 gal was the max for a nano? I have a 25 gal that I concider a Nano tank, and what other rules are there? like can you have a sump on your Nano? and if so can the sump be bigger than the Nano?

Oh and what kind of a Tang can you put in a Nano if you plan on putting it in abigger tank later?

Steve

Delphinus
10-22-2002, 05:55 AM
A baby tang maybe? Man, there are some of the most ADORABLE little baby sailfins here at a LFS not much bigger than a toonie. I just about picked one up, but, I've decided to wait because they're Z. veliferum (as gorgeous as that fish is), but what I really want is a Z. desjardinii, and I know I can't do both.

I don't know if the 15g is a universally accepted threshold. It's just a subjective thing. "Nano" seems to imply "very small". I consider my 20g reef a "small" setup but not a "very small" setup. So I dunno ... I guess that doesn't qualify me as a "nano keeper" by my own definition but here I am posting anyways. :D Whatever terminology works for you.

BTW, I have a sump on my 20g. And if I ever set up my 5g as a reef, I was thinking of putting a whomping big sump on that thing. Why not? A sump to me is the essence of simplicity. Hide my heater, hide my skimmer (if I choose to use one), and best of all (everything else is secondary, really, to me anyways) WATER TOP UP!! The system can withstand a little evaporation and the water level in the main display doesn't fluctuate. (Float valve!! Heh heh ... is there really any greater labour saving device for reefing?) Not that it's necessary, but that's really why I like sumps right there. I'd put a sump on my freshwater tank if I was to ever take it down and set it up again.

Anyways just my two pennies worth ...

reefburnaby
10-22-2002, 06:37 AM
Steve,

The definition of a Nano isn't to clear. The way I used to see Nanos was that 20 gallon tank was the minimum size tank for any aquarium. At least, an aquarium that is large enough to be stable and can keep reasonable size fish. However, it is not hard to keep tanks smaller than 20 gallon, it just means less stability and less room for error.

For a while, people had a tough time keep corals in any tank, so tanks with smaller volumes were considered a bad choice. Today, technology and improved knowledge have changed that. It is possible to keep a successful reef (such as a 2.5 gallon) without too much difficulty.

But, keeping a 2.5 gallon reef is much more interesting than keeping a 25 gallon reef. You can still use conventional hardware for 25 gallon, but 2.5 gallon is a lot different. Skimmers, reactors, mega pumps are useless in a 2.5 gallon. However, a weekly 1 gallon water change is all that is needed to keep the 2.5 G happy.

- Victor.

AJ_77
10-22-2002, 03:58 PM
Oh and what kind of a Tang can you put in a Nano if you plan on putting it in abigger tank later?

Steve
Good point, there has been heated debate as to the "correctness" of putting a small tang into a small tank, given that at some point the tang will have to be moved to larger quarters. Is this irresponsible husbandry, keeping a fish for only the first portion of its life?

Heck, isn't this what we do with kids??

Alan

Bob I
10-22-2002, 10:27 PM
When I first asked for the nanoboard to be set up, I came up with the 15 gallon idea because I had read that other people considered 20g a "mini reef". So I just threw in 15 g as an idea. If you want to call your 25g a nano it is up to you, but some folks would argue, but then folks argue anyway...RIGHT? And you want to put a 50 gallon sump on it ? Sure, why not? It is your tank. And personally I would not put ANY Tang in a nano. WHY?....They just look too nervous for me. :oops: I am sure the first poster who asked about the tangs did it as a joke though. 8)

naesco
10-23-2002, 12:46 AM
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Hey you guys!
Stircrazy was obviously just joking about the tang thing.

Nice try but no prize Stir!!!

AJ_77
10-23-2002, 01:27 AM
We know him well enough not to take him seriously. :lol: :D :lol: But perhaps there is a point here, even if it came from him just wanting to "stir" the pot a bit:

What about buying a fish with the intention of keeping it only until it outgrows your tank? I know this has produced flames in the past, but how is this evil? I'm not playing devil's advocate here ( :twisted: ) but I am curious...

I'm thinking it is probably a bad idea in most cases, but... Those of you with highly-developed ethics, what do you say?

Aj :?

Bob I
10-23-2002, 01:38 AM
Well then again, a person can buy a fish without knowing how it is going to act down the line. I myself bought a baby Regal Tang once. I was able to keep it for more than a year. It then started to look nervous, which I find a lot of tangs do. I then took it back to the LFS where I originally bought it. They put it into their 1500 gallon show tank where it looked a lot less nervous. So in the end I feel this :roll: was kinder to the fish than keeping it.

naesco
10-23-2002, 02:28 AM
The problem with purchasing a tiny fish with the intent that you get rid of it is twofold.
First, who do you get rid of it to.
Second, if you are talking tangs here who could possibly get rid on one of these fish. You simply get too attached to them. I think there would be a tendancy to keep them longer than you should to the detriment of the tang and the other fish in the tank.

Example
Who would take Emilys clown tang. I would think that it would be too aggressive and too large for most tanks.
Having said that I would love to be one of the very very few who could keep a clown tang alive. :)

StirCrazy
10-23-2002, 02:37 AM
We know him well enough not to take him seriously. :lol: :D :lol: But perhaps there is a point here, even if it came from him just wanting to "stir" the pot a bit:
Aj :?

Hmm you asume to much my young friend :) seriously though.. in my case I have what I would call a Nano or mini (25 gal size what it is called isn't to important,) but it is a secondary "Show Tank" being that you can see it along with my main tank. the water volume in my system is just over 150 gal. So if I refrase this question a little and ask "is there a Tang that I could get and keep in the 25 gal untill it grew to big for that one... then I would move it to the 92 gal tank (and if things go good eventualy to the 135 gal tank, if my wife doesent kill me first :) )..

so as you can see I was not nessasarly trying to "Stir" the pot but rather asking a hypotyhetical question. The reason I call it hypothetical is because I cannot actualy do this as I have a tang in the 92 all ready, (and just for the record, it was our local Tang Police chief "Naesco" that aproved the addition of a tang to my 92, so I have royal grace. ) But if I didn't have one in the 92 I can see this as a cool way to put a nice fish in the smaller tank for a while.

I guess the main question is what kinds of Tangs are nice and helthy when they are real small?

***this is a serious question with no battle intended.. so if you are against something like theis let your stance be knowen but please no flames, if you want to make your point knowen that is cool, but explain your position don't just come across and say "tangs shouldent be in tanks under 500 gal" that doesent get anyone anywhare.

you may wonder whare this question has arose from.. I see more and more people setting up smaller tanks 33gal and less and buying little tangs for them. We know people are going to do it if they want but lets get some ideas about it going.. maby I should start another thread in the general area but this deals with Nanos also.

One of the things I was wondering last night is if Juvinial tangs exhibit behaviour like other fisgh.. that is they school and stay in a small teratory untill they reach sexual maturity, then they go therer own ways and become more nomadic. if this IS true then it might be perfectly OK to keep a small Tang in a small tank for a while then move him into a bigger one when he reached sexual maturity, but I have no comfermation of this so I cannot say.

Steve

naesco
10-23-2002, 03:12 AM
You raise some really good points Steve.
As I said many times the really big problem is parting with a tang when it does grow and you cannot afford the money or space for a larger tank.

The problem with the tiny tangs is that they are difficult to keep alive. Most of the tiny Naso and regal tangs we often see are so scrawny from the travel that they dont make it. I would be interested in knowing if any do.
Reefers buy them though because they fit.

The whole tang size issue is to bring an awareness of the preferred requirements of these beautiful fish. Before they were simply sold to us newbies as a fish which could survive in our first tanks which was typically a 33 or so.
I think reefers are light years ahead in their knowledge today more than every before. Those that do try to keep tangs in smaller tanks do so with the idea that they will invest in a larger tank in the future or allow for the fish in other ways ie rock placement that allows the tang to swim, very low fish load and passive tank mates

EmilyB
10-23-2002, 04:51 AM
Who would take Emilys clown tang


Ah..no one actually, as he belongs to me....Stripey Pants is just fine where he is :P

I was joking naesco :lol:

AJ_77
10-23-2002, 05:04 AM
Hmm you asume to much my young friend
Sorry there Steve, I thought the comment you made in chat last night referred to some pot-stirring (doh!).

Naesco is right, you raise some excellent points. I'm real curious because I have a 33 and I have to explain almost daily to my wife and son why we cannot have a Purple Tang... :roll:

I'm just afraid they aren't taking me seriously, and on Christmas Eve they'll surprise me with a "family gift" that comes in a wet plastic bag. :? It could happen.

Aj

Delphinus
10-23-2002, 03:08 PM
I guess one point I forgot to mention in my first reply way up above, when I suggested baby tangs, was that I was coming from the point of view that baby tangs (i.e., "toonie" sized tangs) may have a harder time in larger tanks when they are so small. Until they are a little bit stronger, is it not easier on them to live in an enviroment a little gentler. One example that comes to mind, Doug mentioned that he put a small tang in his large reef, he found it stuck to his overflow. Another example that comes to mind is another tank I saw recently, where there is a closed loop run by a ampmaster 3000 with a single intake. I can only imagine the amount of suction through that strainer. The fish I saw and to whom it was I referring, it would only take one time of straying too close to such an input and it would be bad news. So yeah I do temper my original comments with "so long as you have the intention of investing into the proper environment down the road." I agree with Naesco that it is probably a lot harder to give up a tang to someone else, espescially when you've seen that tang grow from something coin-sized to something several inches long. Plus you never know if the environment they go into is really any better for them. Is it not still on one's conscience in such a case?

naesco
10-24-2002, 02:03 AM
Tony I agree.
The tiny blue regal is a perfect example. Let's say a reefer buys a tiny one (not recommended because most under two inches don't survive) for his 20 gallon tank.
He nurtures it and it grows. Think for a moment how we get attached to certain coral. How in heavens name can anyone part with his/her baby blue tang which is now four inches. IME it is impossible unless you have a family member or friend that you trust 100% to give it to. You will not return it to a LFS or even another reefer. You keep it.
It is better not to buy it in the first place IMO.

BCOrchidGuy
12-16-2002, 09:32 PM
Tangs in Nanos, big debate on another board I frequent and it has resulted in nothing but a total melt down to flaming.

I have a 20 gallon Nano, I have a 33 that I was thinking of using as my Nano but for now it is the 20. I bought a 2 1/2 inch sailfin tang to house in my 20 until my 72 was cycled but the tang passed away in the hospital tank so it never made it into the nano but I feel it would have been fine, lots of stuff to graze on... it would have been the only fish in there.... a few peppermint shrimp and some nice coral and lots of live rock.

Bob I
12-16-2002, 09:47 PM
I myself have never had a Sailfin, and the subject is moot anyway. I have had a Regal in a smaller tank, but when it grew, I had to give it back to my LFS. I just find Tangs have too nervous a nature for the smaller tanks. My dentist's office once had a faily big sailfin, a Regal, and a Yellow in a Hex. They did not act too nervous in there, but they died. They were rental fish. :shock:

BCOrchidGuy
12-16-2002, 10:07 PM
Odd I'm always the MOST nervous when I'm at the dentist.

christyf5
12-16-2002, 10:50 PM
Funny, BCOrchidGuy, same here :)

This forum is great! While I could never have a nano because I would want to cram too much stuff in there :roll: (although I have the big tank for that :idea: ), I love reading about this stuff. Keep it coming!!

Christy :)


PS does anyone have a 5G nano up and running??? Tell me all!!! ;)

kgb
12-16-2002, 11:48 PM
hehe ok back when i started to intrested in saltwater tanks some of my friends told me about nano tank that they are easy and all that so this is what i stufied to make my fish saltwater tank.
my friends have 2.5 gal tank for 3 years now and it has neer crashed or nothing same with his 1 gal and 5 gal. when i come back from mexico on the 8th of january i am setting up my 5 gal nano. i think they are pretty sweet becase all you need is 1 or 2 corals you like and a power head and heater and you are set. no exspensive skimmers or nothing .
and 1 think i have seen they do very nicely is display zoo's . very nice nano zoo tanks

hey some what related to zoos but des any one know the rules about bringing corals from the usa to canada ?

Delphinus
12-17-2002, 04:59 AM
hey some what related to zoos but des any one know the rules about bringing corals from the usa to canada ?

The short answer is "don't." Most corals are on the CITES list (Convention on International Trade of Endangered Species), which means you cannot import them without the proper CITES permits (expensive). Without these permits, and if you are determined to be carrying endangered species, or any products made from endangered species, or by-products of endangered species, (e.g., boots made from alligator skin, or anything made of ivory, or, seeds of a plant, cuttings of a plant, corals, cuttings of a coral, live rock [live rock used to be coral], live sand, ... etc. you get the idea] .... you risk having your goods seized and destroyed, plus risk having severe fines, and possibly face even jail time. :shock:

It's not worth the risk!! Support the Canadian companies who do go through the hassle of importing legally, they need our support to make their efforts worthwhile.

For more info see www.cites.org

Bob I
12-18-2002, 02:40 AM
hey some what related to zoos but des any one know the rules about bringing corals from the usa to canada ?

What the H is a zoo????

StirCrazy
12-18-2002, 02:58 AM
What the H is a zoo????


and I would have expected you to know that.. being the speller you are... tisk, tisk


Steve

Samw
01-05-2003, 09:12 PM
Hmm you asume to much my young friend
Sorry there Steve, I thought the comment you made in chat last night referred to some pot-stirring (doh!).

Naesco is right, you raise some excellent points. I'm real curious because I have a 33 and I have to explain almost daily to my wife and son why we cannot have a Purple Tang... :roll:

I'm just afraid they aren't taking me seriously, and on Christmas Eve they'll surprise me with a "family gift" that comes in a wet plastic bag. :? It could happen.

Aj


How about a Scopas tang? Greg Schiemer has one in a 38G along with 6 other smaller fish.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/Fish.htm

http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=22958&highlight=scopas

AJ_77
01-05-2003, 10:20 PM
Thanks Sam, don't mind if I do! Seriously, I 'had' a Scopas that didn't fare well through my 90g Green Tank episode, and he went to EmilyB. Nice fish, but was definitely on the way out when he was adopted. He is now fit and trim, as expected.

I got a CBB instead. :D :D :D
http://members.shaw.ca/reefs/AJ_77/33gal/index.html

Alan

Canadian Man
01-05-2003, 10:42 PM
Nice Changes on the site Alan! Thanks!
The CBB pics work out very well. 8)

EmilyB
01-05-2003, 11:07 PM
Nice BFly Alan ! :D

AJ_77
01-05-2003, 11:30 PM
Hey thanks - we're very happy! (I like meat-eaters...) :D

Put the Banggai in with him and the clowns today. More batteries for the camera.

:D

Tau2301
01-06-2003, 10:23 PM
Very impressive page there Alan.