Surge tank experience?

[danny zubot]

I've been thinking of using an old 5 gallon tank to try my hand at a scaled down model of the Waikiki surge tank design. Has anyone ever built one of these? How do they work for you?

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f343/3214dannyzubot/surge1.jpg

[Pescador]

I haven't tried one myself, and I realize your looking for hands on experience. but...
You probably have already done a search for the Carlson surge device.

Here's one link http://petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/surge_device.html

The Dana Riddle version uses a 5 gallon tank.
http://http://www.breedersregistry.org/Reprints/MFM/v11_aug96/simple_surge.htm

There's some info (8 pages) in The Reef Aquarium Vol.3. If you want to see it let me know.

[Delphinus]

Haven't tried the Carlson surge, did try a toilet flapper surge a few years back and it worked well for while. I eventually stopped it though because the float kept getting jammed in the bucket I was using.

There's no getting away from bubbles with surge devices (you can minimize them though, of course, but not really eliminate them) so there is some increased salt spray on your glass and so on.

But they're a great method to shake things up in a tank .. I keep wanting to go back to having a surge tank or two on a tank.

The nice thing about the Carlson surges are no moving parts, so as long as you can get it tuned right it should work awesome.

[honkey sauce]

ive got one and dont use it anymore.You shouldnt waste your time and money one when you could buy a tunze powerhead with controller,way better.more water movement and more random

[Dale]

Hey Danny,

I'm going to try one of the toilet flappers (two actually) on my temperate reef. Let's compare notes down the road.

[danny zubot]

I can see how these designs would create bubbles. I think the size of bubbles could be adjusted by using a larger sized air line. (#3 above) This would make larger bubbles and thus rise out of the water faster.

I thought about trying a flapper style surge, but mechanical parts = more room for malfunction. The design used at Waikiki soesn't use any moving parts, so if I can get it working it should stay working.

[Joe Reefer]

so if I can get it working it should stay working.

Those are some famous last words.:mrgreen:

Has anyone seen the georgia aquarium surge device in their reef display? Its like a couple of dump trucks unloading all at once. Very cool looking but not feasilbe in anything less than a 10000 or so gallon system.

[Delphinus]

Yeah that is amazing to see.. :cool:

There used to be a commercially available "turf scrubber" that worked on the same "dump tank" principle. Haven't seen one in years though.

[WWWD]

Rikko used to run a flapper style on on his tank, I think he said it worked pretty well but was noisy.

OA back in the day also used to run a fairly sizable surge device on one of their 4x8 holding tanks, Im not sure what method they used but it was a pain in the ass when you were looking at a coral to buy and every 60 seconds a wash a bubbles clouded out the tank and you had to wait for it to clear.

[Pescador]

I can see how these designs would create bubbles. I think the size of bubbles could be adjusted by using a larger sized air line. (#3 above) This would make larger bubbles and thus rise out of the water faster.

Here's some info from Delbeek in RA3

First he talks about extending the air line (8) down so it ended just above the inlet to the main siphon.

"Solving bubble generation
To solve this problem the air evacuation line (3) was moved into the CSD and placed at the very top of the inside elbow (8) instead of near the bottom of the outlet pipe in the tank. This should be the point where suction is the greatest and introducing air at this point, should cause the siphon to break rapidly. Another mod was to cut the end of the siphon pipe (2) with two 45 degree angles to look like an arrowhead. A side benefit has been a significant decrease in noise due to elimination of slurping at the end of the cycle."

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y126/Pescador58/Misc/image-1.jpg

Hope this helps.

[danny zubot]

That design would solve the problem of the air bubbles. But the down fall would be that you loose the siphon "actuator" and thus run the risk of a slow drain instead of a sudden flush. Its a bit of a trade off I guess.

Noise might not be an issue because I debating putting the tank in the basement of the new house. If I decide to keep it upstairs I won't want a noisey setup. Will a lid dampen the noise significantly on these things?

[Pescador]

Yeah I guess it would be like a toilet lid. :smile:

Speaking of lids he talks about a forced CSD where the top is sealed with an air vent with a check valve to build up pressure so you can use a bigger output pipe. But it's on a 100g reservoir with 4" pipe.

[danny zubot]

I was thinking of trying at least 1.5" to 2" for mine for maximum flush velocity. I hope that size will work.

Also, I was thinking of using a Maxijet 1200 to fill it up to the 3.5 gallon point. (approx 45 seconds)

[Pescador]

As long as it doesn't fill so quick that the siphon doesn't break at the end of the cycle. Then it just goes up and down without completely emptying or filling.

Again I have no experience with these, I'm just passing on the info.

[SuperFudge]

Ive built and used a few of them over the years,almost all were carlson type.

The last one Jamie and i put together, wich consisted of 2-5 gal buckets, plumbed together at the base, for almost a 10 gal surge on a frag tank.

That one in particular worked a little too well, i was trying to keep 200 frags from piling up at one end...

These buckets bases were about 40" up from the 1.5" output...the resulting surge was enouph to push the length of pipe sideways 2" during discharge.

I have also built a four stage one for a wholesale distributer for use on their SPS holding system, using a 100g arylic tank divided into 4 sections, each of these delivering a huge 25 gal surge...at the end of each cycle you actually FELT the siphon break.
I bet this could easily be done with a smaller tank delivering consistant but smaller surges.

I have noticed they are Very reliable, i dont think ive ever seen one stop working or fail to restart...something i cant say for flapper methods.

Bubbles and noise are their downfall, and ive tried the airline, aswell as angled siphon end....they work to a degree OR for a length of time before becoming clogged.
On the 5 gal buckets, lids were used to help, but still very loud at the end of a surge.

Like mentioned, probably better off to save for a tunze, but you still will never beat a surge like that while only using a small powehead to run it.

I kinda miss watching it actually....wheres those old pics. :)

Cheers, Marc.