View Full Version : Tridacna Crocea
Unbelievable deal on these 4-5 inchers right now from our fav LFS.
http://www.hyperdream.com/~samw/reef/200210/122-2226_IMG.jpg
EmilyB
10-20-2002, 07:07 AM
Do they all come with a copywrite in the middle....? :lol:
Good luck with the crocea - they are very cool. I had one for about four months or so under PC's (of course it went brown) but was doing well until it got moved to another tank.
It was one of the few clams that really attached itself - in fact, I had advice about cutting the threads to remove it.
Should have left it, brown or not, maybe.... :roll:
How's the clam after it got moved to your new tank? Any pics?
pocilipora
10-20-2002, 07:46 AM
I just had one die. Had it over a year almost 2. Not realy sure either why it died. Good luck sam they are one of the hardest of all the clams to keep alive.
EmilyB
10-20-2002, 08:17 AM
Oh, it died shortly after. I actually have a whole pic library of the fading and removal, but my infamous Kole kept it from attaching in the new tank, I suspect (given more recent history) and the clam just got knocked about too much and died.
I will try and dig up those pics.
EmilyB
10-20-2002, 08:34 AM
First pic:
http://members.shaw.ca/bhadford1/urchinclam.jpg
Months later:
http://members.shaw.ca/bhadford1/CroceaNow.JPG
Brief residence in MH:
http://members.shaw.ca/bhadford1/CroceaMH.JPG
Sorry to hear that your clams didn't last longer for you both. Hm, did either of you add phytoplankton to your tanks?
I'm a believer that Giant clams need something other than light to thrive. I like to believe that adding Phytoplankton to the tank and having nutrients in the tank in addition to good lighting will be very beneficial.
EmilyB
10-20-2002, 08:50 AM
No, I didn't Sam. However, there were fish, being fed regularily. Nutrients/nitrates....?
terryp01
10-20-2002, 12:36 PM
You should also regularly check the clams for the small white snails that hide under the mantals and will kill the clams if they go unchecked. I had up to 13 clams in my tank at one time and checked for them twice a month.
I agree the croceas are one of the most difficult to keep. No matter what I did, the clams would not last over 2 to 2.5 years.
pocilipora
10-20-2002, 06:44 PM
I do use spray dried phytoplankton, and I did use Tahetian algae paste until it expiered. They are still hard to keep. Derasas Ive had good luck with.
I do use spray dried phytoplankton, and I did use Tahetian algae paste until it expiered. They are still hard to keep. Derasas Ive had good luck with.
Yeah, I'll agree they are hard to keep from everything that I've read. I admit the reason I decided to try one was because of the great price on this one.
I read this interesting article about phytoplankton being a necessity for clams from Dr. Shimek.
http://www.dtplankton.com/Clams.htm
In the summary at the end, it states that dead phytoplankton (such as Tahaitian blend I think) are not consumed by the clam but live phytoplankton (such as DT's) are.
This is why I'm hoping to get group/power buys on DT's every 4-6 months or somehow get access to some home grown cultures.
Troy F
10-20-2002, 07:24 PM
Metal Halide lighting is a must, more important than feeding IMO.
pocilipora
10-26-2002, 06:24 PM
Hey Sam, how bout an update on the clam!
Hi Pocilipora.
Not much to say other than its alive :) I can't really tell if the clam's happy or not. It looks about the same at this point.
Aquattro
10-26-2002, 08:08 PM
I also got one of those croceas. It's doing fine. Clams do need additional feeding though.
StirCrazy
10-26-2002, 08:24 PM
I also got one of those croceas. It's doing fine. Clams do need additional feeding though.
when are we going to see some pictures of your tank Brad?
Steve
Aquattro
10-26-2002, 08:50 PM
When you take them Steve....
Well I don't know if clams in general need extra feeding. I beleive as long as good lighting is provided and ammonia is being released in the system clams will do well. I have two clams that are over 5 years old. I don't feed anything more then fish food. That being said mine are maxima's and I have never owned crocea's.
http://members.shaw.ca/jcross1/bluemax.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/jcross1/purplemax.jpg
Aquattro
10-26-2002, 10:44 PM
Jamie, I guess what I meant was they eat stuff other than light. So if you have a good supply of plankton in your tank, that may well be enough. I understand size also matters (in clams)...the smaller they are, the more supplemental feeding the require.
Brad,
I would say ammonia is the key. I don't know if they need plankton.
Aquattro
10-27-2002, 02:20 AM
Jamie, I agree that a nitrogen source is essential, but for the phytoplankton, I have to go with Knop's recomendation that they need phyto. Since I haven't done any side by side comparisons, I can't speak from experience. I had a clam for a year that grew well without additional feeding, but it did really well after starting with DTs. Of course that was about the time I hooked up my Ca reactor, so who knows. Popular opinion in the clam forum of RC is that they unarguably need feeding. I feed DTs anyway, so better safe than sorry.
smokinreefer
10-27-2002, 03:13 AM
while i agree that feeding items such as phyto may be beneficial...i do not necessarily believe it is a necessity for keeping clams.
case in point, jamie's clams...though they may be getting food present in his system, he is not adding any supplemental food for the clams.
yeah, i have noticed phytos is pushed heavily on RC, but i also realize one of the biggest advocates for it is someone who sells clams...though you can take it as him having lots of experience with the husbandy of clams, you can also take it as someone who has a vested interest in the sale of the product as well.
though i must say...feeding phyto is something i may try in the near future.
Brad,
I'm sure Daniel Knop would be a wise person to follow as far as clam advise goes. I don't know much about what clams consume for sure other then what I read and well I geuss just cause I read it doesn't make it true. :wink: What I do know is I don't feed Zoo or Phytoplankton in my system. I geuss I was more disagreeing with your statement that clams need additional feeding. Also I do notice when I feed more fish food that the clams also do better. Wether thats do to the increase in dissolved solid,extra ammonia or the additional growth of phytoplankton(eg. more algae on glass) would be a tough one to answer.
Aquattro
10-27-2002, 03:44 AM
Jamie, I guess you have me there. I don't KNOW they need anything extra and tend to follow the masses on husbandry technique. I figure so many people advocating something, the something must hold some merit. Again, I'm told by the 'experts' that to get a tank like yours, foods like DTs needs to be added. You (and your corals/clams) obviously didn't talk to the same experts :P (anyone that's seen Jamie's tank knows he's an expert in his own right :D )
In thinking about your comments, I'm actually surprised you don't add "coral food". I would have guessed you did.
Shao, you make a good point regarding sellers advocating this. Is it experience or sales speaking.
Since I have DTs and golden pearls, I'll feed it to the tank. One observation about food...I've sat for a long time and tried to see a coral polyp actually extract something from the water column, and never have.
Maybe this opens up a new thread on feeding filter/polyp feeders.
Brad,
Well I do know one thing. I'm no expert. I have expermented with algae pastes,dt's and spray dried. The most I noticed with these different foods were increases in algae growth and pod life. I feel I can do this with fish food for cheaper and my fish like it too. :D
I should add I'm not saying these are bad products. Their is no question that many animals we keep consume and need zoo and/or phytoplankton. But from my experience with plankton additives in my system, the results did not justify the costs.
Aquattro
10-27-2002, 05:00 AM
Jamie, do you think your sump supplies a lot of food? I recall it looked like a good place to breed pods, etc. In other words, would you advocate a refugium style setup over food additives?
Brad,
For sure the sump/refugium has a great deal of life. I would imagine it supplies a good deal of zooplankton and I suppose some phyto to the main system. In order for these life forms to thrive, I do feel food is needed, but I think fish food will work as the food supply.
Aquattro
10-27-2002, 05:22 AM
Jamie, what do you mean by fish food? Frozen Formula series, flakes, pellets, something else?
Just what ever you feed your fish. I don't mean target feeding the plankton. All I mean is by having a healthy feeding plan your fish are healthy with a good metabilism. Their for they excrete urine and fecal matter at a higher rate equaling ammonia and dissolved organic matter which in turn feeds your ammonia loving animals and your plankton community. With this we can't forget the beloved water change. Now don't go trying this at home I don't want to be responsable. :wink:
EmilyB
10-27-2002, 05:39 AM
Hey ! I can relate to that ! 8) They eat lots and crap lots :lol:
Yup, If they eat everybody eats. :D
pocilipora
10-27-2002, 10:13 PM
Just thought this may be of some use to clam owners. http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/d_potts_081797.html
ruck'n'reefer
10-28-2002, 02:43 AM
Where did you get the clam Sam?
pocilipora
10-28-2002, 02:51 AM
They have them at J&L $40, not much to chose from now though.
Where did you get the clam Sam?
Hi Ruck'n.
Yes, J&L had 'em for $40. I think their reg prices is about $70 and probably other places are over $80-$100. The best ones were probably gone by the time I got there but what I was able to get wasn't too bad at all.
Delphinus
10-28-2002, 05:10 AM
Jamie, wow, nice clams (hmmmm, things that sound rude, but aren't. :D ). How big were they when you got them, would you say?
Hey Tony thanks. But now you made me dig through some old pics. Though I did get a few laughs. :P I hesitate to post this pic but what the heck. It's a whole tank shot from about 3 1/2 - 4 years ago. Not the best for clam sizeing but I can't remember how big they were. It's sure neat looking at old shots. On the far left is a squamosa, maxima and derasa. Since traded off the squamosa and derasa. Then closer to the bottom center is the other maxima. Also notice the little christmas wrasse in the center shot. He's a monster now same with the yellow tang if you can see it. Remember it's only funny when the owner laughs at old shots. :oops:
http://members.shaw.ca/jcross1/4yearstank.jpg
Delphinus
10-28-2002, 04:33 PM
Thanks for the picture. It seems fair to say then that that the clams have grown significantly in last few years! :) It's hard to guage by a picture but I'm guessing that the clams must have been closer to the 2" - maybe 2 - 1/2 " range for starters.
The reason I ask, is, I've gone on the DT's diet and in six months I've lost $300. :( And it doesn't seem to guarantee that the baby clams will have any better luck succeeding into adulthood.
Sooo .... I think I'm through with ordering small clams. Next one (if there ever is a next one) it will be a larger specimen ... one that relies on photosynthesis more than feeding, rather than the other way around. Too much trouble, and too much expense to be constantly dumping in DT's at any daily amounts significant to sustain the clams. Maybe if a person grew their own Nannochloropsis spp. it would be somewhat more economical.
FishGeek
10-29-2002, 07:02 AM
Hey Tony! Go to Wai's on 16 ave. He has very nice Maximas and they are a fair size. I bought mine from him and it is doing very well. Well it is finally doing well after I was able to catch my emperor angel and stick him in the refuge! I thought I was going to loose the clam for a bit there!
Simon
Aquattro
10-29-2002, 07:35 AM
Remember it's only funny when the owner laughs at old shots. :oops: [/img]
I'm not laughing :lol:
Delphinus
10-29-2002, 03:47 PM
Thanks for the tip, Simon. I do know about Wai's. I visit his store every week, he has some nice candy for sure. But I have to caution you about Wai's and clams. He sells some good stuff, but, sometimes, well .... I don't really want to get into it, but let's just say "caveat emptor." His clams don't necessarily fare any better than from any others. He'll happily charge you $150 or more for clams with, that upon inspection of the clam when you get it home, has evident damage to their byssal gland. I unfortunately speak from experience. As I'm sure with many LFS, you have to trust your own instinct about how much risk is associated with a certain purchase. Some things are fine ... some things may not be, despite appearances.
Unfortunately with clams, it's very hard to guage what that risk is, because, they tend to look "100% healthy" up until the point that they die. Look fine one day, boom, next day they're gone. I'm not exaggerating. It takes a very keen eye to spot trouble early on (usually the easy way to tell is to look at the byssal gland .... not many LFS will let you do this in their store, however).
To be fair, I know of several T. derasa clams that have come from this store that have fared well over time. T. maxima and T. crocea have horrible survival rates in my opinion, doesn't matter where they come from. The smaller they are, the worse it is. The problem I had was with baby clams (2" and smaller -- some as small as 1"). I knew that the odds were not good going in (this is why they tend to be cheap too), and despite my efforts, the odds were correct this time around. I fed copious amounts of DT's ($50 per month ... I was not kidding when I said "I joined the DT's diet and in six months I lost $300." The end result is the same: I have about $200 worth of shells now, and about $300 worth of empty DT's bottles. :(
From here on, I'm staying away from baby clams. If there is a "next one" for me, it will be some 3" - 4" monster. And if it comes pre-attached to a rock, so much the better.
while i agree that feeding items such as phyto may be beneficial...i do not necessarily believe it is a necessity for keeping clams.
case in point, jamie's clams...though they may be getting food present in his system, he is not adding any supplemental food for the clams.
yeah, i have noticed phytos is pushed heavily on RC, but i also realize one of the biggest advocates for it is someone who sells clams...though you can take it as him having lots of experience with the husbandy of clams, you can also take it as someone who has a vested interest in the sale of the product as well.
though i must say...feeding phyto is something i may try in the near future.
Clam vendors like Barry and Jim Norris aren't selling DT's as far as I know. They don't get anything out of promoting DT's unless the product works. If the product works, then more people will buy clams because they'll be able to keep them alive. If the product doesn't work and clams die, then people will be discouraged from buying clams from them. It is in their best interest to give people good information on how to keep clams alive. I don't see how they would benefit by telling people to use DT's if there is no benefit to using it. IE. I don't see their vested interest in the sale of DT's.
If it was the other way around, then I would understand. IE. The more clams are sold, the more DTs will be sold. So, DT vendors would have a vested interested in selling more clams.
Its like dog kennels and Dog Chow. Let's assume Dog Chow helps keep dogs healthy and happy. Dog kennels won't benefit by pushing Dog Chow. However, pushing dog sales will benefit companies that sell Dog Chow. The more dogs that are sold (and produced) means that more Dog chow will be sold.
smokinreefer
02-24-2003, 03:05 AM
first off, why the f@#$ am i getting a topic reply notification, to a post that is a couple of months old???
anyhow...
Clam vendors like Barry and Jim Norris aren't selling DT's
since they were mentioned...
Barry does sell DTs, not sure if Jim did before, but he now sells some other clam/coral food.
They don't get anything out of promoting DT's unless the product works.
how so? are you telling me, that if i set up a clam tank, stock it full of nice clams, feed the clams DT all the time, and whenever someone asks me about keeping clams i tell them it is important to feed DTs. then i start offering nice clams to the public, you don't think people will follow my example and purchase some Dts from me as well? if you promote a product, whether it works or not, or even if it is a placebo, if it sells, bottom line is, you make money. that is marketing, you make money from it period.
They don't get anything out of promoting DT's unless the product works.
how so? are you telling me, that if i set up a clam tank, stock it full of nice clams, feed the clams DT all the time, and whenever someone asks me about keeping clams i tell them it is important to feed DTs. then i start offering nice clams to the public, you don't think people will follow my example and purchase some Dts from me as well? if you promote a product, whether it works or not, or even if it is a placebo, if it sells, bottom line is, you make money. that is marketing, you make money from it period.
My argument assumed that those clam vendors didn't sell DT's. At the time I posted, I didn't see DT's on Barry's website. Maybe it was there and I missed it. I see that he sells DT's now.
The benefits of phytoplankton are widely published. Clam vendors aren't the only people pushing DT's. Many researchers are too and they don't have any financial stake in it that I know of. They might not be essential for raising adult clams in tanks with super MH lighting. But it could be very beneficial for those with questionable lighting and nutrients in the water.
Rob Toonen http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/r_toonen_102500.html
"Despite the fact that phytoplankton form the basis of marine food webs in general, and are an essential component of the diet for many reef creatures (such as fan worms, sea apples, giant clams, gorgonians and tunicates, to name a few), they are probably the least common element included in feeding an aquarium."
"Everyone realizes that to keep fish healthy in an aquarium, they need to be fed something, but many people are misled into thinking that feeding their corals, clams or other animals with photosynthetic symbionts (such as zooxanthellae) is somehow going to be bad for them. It is true that animals with photosynthetic symbionts have forged a relationship that makes it easier for them to survive in the nutrient-poor tropical waters that support most coral reefs, but it is untrue that these animals do not require any nutrition other than that provided by their symbionts. The fact that no organism on a coral reef can obtain 100% of their nutritional requirements from the release of photosynthate by algal symbionts is viewed as support for the importance of additional feeding by many, "
"Live phytoplankton is obviously the best option in terms of nutritional value and low risk of over-feeding. Live cultures are the standard by which all other products are judged, and the others can be "as good as live" but no one has ever discovered a phytoplankton supplement that performs better than live. "
Dr. Ron http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13998&highlight=phytoplankton+AND+clam
Q. you say clams will not live on zanthellae alone. other then phytoplankton, could you tell me what else to use.
"A. First, the references about clam nutrition follow, should you care to examine them. The information about clam nutrition is not mine, rather it comes from researchers in the field.
Phytoplankton is really the only source. Live phytoplankton is best. Cryogenically preserved phytoplankton is next best. Liquid invert "foods" are unlikely to feed any clam directly they simply will not eat the stuff. Such foods may stimulate the growth of bacteria which the clams will eat. Personally, I wouldn't waste my time or money on any of the liquid "foods." "
If the clam vendors who sell phytoplankton were the only ones pushing it while all the research shows that phytoplankton was useless, then yes, I would agree that it is nothing but a marketing scheme designed to increase phytoplankton sales. But there is too much literature out there for me to believe that it is just marketing.
.
StirCrazy
02-24-2003, 01:39 PM
Just to play devils avocate, there are now a few bigger people sayign that you don't need to feed clams and that the reason small ones die is because they have a high mortality rate, and there is no proof that DT's or others actualy help..
this is not nessasarly my opinion, but I like to read both sides of the fence.
Steve
Hi Steve. That's interesting. I would like to learn more about those claims. Any links? Thanks.
smokinreefer
02-24-2003, 11:15 PM
i know what you are saying sam...i think.
and i am not arguing that there isnt a possible benefit to clams and corals to feed DTs.
what i am saying is...DT may not be as necessary as some claim for the health of the animals in our care.
point being, many people are able to keep these animals, and have kept them with out the addition of products such as DTs.
i am all for change and improvment in the husbandry of animals under our care. i just don't feel there is enough info out there to sway me into believing DTs is necessary for the healthy survival of a clam.
it is also my opinion that smaller clams 1-2" have a higher mortality rate. and that may be due to them needing foods stuffs as a food source, as oppossed to larger clams who are thought of as being able to sustain themselves through light. if this is the case, i simply choose to pass on the small specimen and get a larger one that wont require me dosing DTs in order for it to even have a decent chance at surviving in my tank.
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