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[Dale]

I decided to go with two themes on this project:

to house a temperate, west coast tidal zone reef
to use recycled, DIY, cheap, low or no tech equipment.

I wanted to house the system in my garage (to make use of the colder temps) but be able to view it from the house, so the first step was to create a porthole in the wall.

I waited till my wife went out of town and...

Here's the entryway

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_2223.jpg

and the garage side

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_2220.jpg

tearing off the drywall

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_2449.jpg

framing in the porthole

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_2450.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_2451.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_2454.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_2453.jpg
________
GS500F (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Suzuki_GS500F)

[Dale]

Finished garage side

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_2466.jpg

and entryway side

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_2464.jpg
________
medical marijuana (http://mmjp.org)

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Sounds very interesting. Hopefully it won't overheat in the summer.

BTW, when my wife went out of town to Malaysia for a month, I upgraded a whole buncha stuff in my tanks too. :wink: Gotta love those trips.:biggrin:

Anthony

[WWWD]

Don't garages get really hot in the summer? Mine always did, are you going to run a chiller? Also is your tank going to be double pained?

[EmilyB]

You probably don't have to park vehicles in garages in your neck of the woods :lol:

[Chaloupa]

Way too cool! Neat idea too....interesting one to follow along on!

[Dale]

While the cats away... My wife always likes the results but not the process.

I've tracked the garage temps for a year now. Mid 40's in the winter to mid 60's in the summer. I had hoped to avoid a chiller if possible but will add one if I need it. Unlike true coldwater tanks that run around 55F constant, this is going to be a tidal zone system where temps naturally vary more. I've already figured out the temp issues, stocking, lighting etc... and will include them as the thread develops.
Some people suggest double paned, thick glass or acryllic to avoid condensation but that is because they are running 55F temps in heated areas. My tank will be keeping (close to) ambient garage room temps so the condensation will not be that great an issue. The one area of concern is the pane that faces the porthole as it will interact with the entryway temps. The entryway is the coldest part of the house and there hasn't been an issue so far but I have planned a small fan mod to blow on the glass if it arises down the road.

I also lived in Calgary for 6 years and no, we don't need to plug in our cars around here either :biggrin:

Here's a schematic of the fishroom.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/fishroomfinal.jpg

The tank is 6' wide but the porthole is only 4' wide. The studs in the wall made going wider rather complicated and in the end the effect is quite nice. The "wings" hide my overflows, returnlines and you don't get that side pane reflection look.

So far I have done all the construction, electrical and plumbing work so the cheapskate theme is on!
________
vaporizer affiliates (http://vaporizeraffiliateprogram.com)

[fishface]

i always enjoy you thoughtful projects and resourcefulness Dale. keep up the good work!

[kari]

You probably don't have to park vehicles in garages in your neck of the woods :lol:

What, people park their cars in garages? I thought that was only if you had two or more garages.

You may have already planned for this but I think(guessing) the building code requires the opening in the garage/house wall needs to be somewhat sealed to prevent gases entering living space. Since framing a tight fit against the tank is not a good idea you will need some kind of flexible filler for the gap.

[Dale]

Yes, there is a 1/4" or so gap caused by the top and bottom black plastic molding on the tank. I first filled the gap with weatherstripping and then silicone after that.

Here's the display tank. A 135G. I bought used for $50. It needed a good cleaning and resiliconing. Dig that 'ol school' corner overflow box!

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_1714.jpg

Here's the sump. It's a 50G. breeder that was cracked on one end. I picked it, and two other tanks, up for power raking a freinds lawn.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_1607.jpg

and here's a link to a thread that describes how I resiliconed it: http://www.aquahobby.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=35335

and here's the happy couple.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_2489.jpg

Here's one of two corner overflows

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_2671.jpg

and a top view

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_2669.jpg

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Psst. Dale, you'll have to flip your display tank. Holds water better that way:lol:

But seriously, it sounds like you've already put in a lot of time & planning into this (ie. temp. measurements for a year) so that bodes well for the success of this project.

Like the others, I will be following this thread with great interest.

When do you want to go specimen collecting (ie. beachcombing)? That's one thing Irene & I love to do.

Anthony

[Dale]

Hey, I'm ready!

Actually, that is one of the motivators for the system. My wife, the kids and I also love poking around in tidal pools and I figure this is one way to create the whole "learning" experience with them.
That, and the fact I can stock my tank for free :mrgreen:

oh, and thanks for the tip. You should have heard me swearing when I discovered that someone had drilled holes in the bottom of the tank. What were they thinking??? Now I'm gonna have to plug them up with big rubber bathtub plugs :(

[Delphinus]

Psst. Dale, you'll have to flip your display tank. Holds water better that way:lol:


Does he really have to flip it? Wouldn't it be easier to remove the top panel and attach a panel onto the bottom? :lol: (Teeheehee.)

Anyhow, nifty project. Can't wait to see more! :cool:

[Dale]

I like the way you think Tony :mrgreen:

After having fixed a few grow ops in my time, I knew I wanted to vent my fishroom. A $20 bathroom fan and some 3" PVC did the trick. I've wired the fan to a plug (not hard wired) so that I could use a timer and because it was easier overall.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_2659.jpg

Yes, the wiring is exposed! Like a lot of this project I am roughing things in and then going back to finish and refine. I want to get it up and running so I can start cycling the tank. I plan to build a housing around the fan to cover the wiring and to add some rigid cable guard to cover the wiring to the outlet. The fan is controlled by a $5 timer I bought at IKEA and it is set to turn on for 5 minutes every hour. Here's a blurry pic

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_2660.jpg

Most of the flora and fauna I'm interested in keeping is non photosynthetic (not light dependant) so lighting is not as important as in a tropical reef. The main purpose of lighting in a coldwater tank is for viewing and effect.
With this in mind I went all out and installed a cheap IKEA pendant and a Coralife 50/50 screw in CF. (the PVC is a temporary return line for a pump I'm switching out).

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_2664.jpg

One plant that is photosynthetic is eel grass, which I plan to incorporate into the system. For this I will use better lighting but I haven't decided whether I'm planting it in the main display or a plumbed in auxiliary tank so I've left more lighting out for now.
I know that someone, somewhere is probably laughing right now but the measuring stick I am using for this project is not the cost, but the effect. Here's a video of the lighting (the video is pretty rough and doesn't totally capture the shimmer effect. I'll try to take a better one later).

http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/m274/fisherder/?action=view&current=100_2625.flv

[Manny]

cool project. keep up the good work.

[Dale]

I wanted to give the tank a west coast look so using the usual coral based substrate was out. Here's what I did.

Experiment #1:
I thought I'd try washed and screened playsand from H.D. (ha ha). I rinsed and rinsed for an hour and figured that had to be good enough so into the tank it went... oops!
The water turned into a solid chocolate cloud. I mixed in some salt with hopes that the skimmer would take out the silt and I hoped it would settle. Three days later it was a little less cloudy but my wife pointed out that as soon as a future fish stirred the bottom it would cloud up again. Dang.
I wound up siphoning the tank and removing all the playsand. Experiment #1 = disaster.
I then thought "the hell with it" and decided to go with plain old white silica sand. Lordco was out so they offered to ship some in from another store. When I returned they had shipped the wrong stuff. It turned out to be a Target product called Blue diamond 20-50 grit and I took it anyways.

Experiment #2:
Washed the 20-50 grit and only a little dust came out. In the tank it went. No cloudiness and the bottom closely resembles the ocean floor off our coast. Yahoo.

Experiment #3:
I must have been working a little too much with the PVC cement because I decided that I needed to run some carbon on my new set up. That wasn't so bad but I decided to utilize the flow from my display drainline. I loaded a sock with carbon and secured it to the drainpipe... oops!
The flow pulverized the carbon and my tank was back to a smoky cloud again.
This time the fix was less drastic than draining the tank. I ran an AC500 with some filter floss for a couple of days and the water cleared up.

No more experiments for me.:redface:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_2662.jpg

[Ruth]

Very "cool" (gag on the pun) thread and I look forward to tagging along. I remember reading about this on the Steve Weast site when he set up his coldwater tank and it was so interesting. I also think someone else on this board tried it a year or more ago and may have some interesting information to share.

[niloc16]

this is turning out really cool. good job so far

[Pan]

what do you put in a coldwater tank btw?

[Gujustud]

very very cool. keep up the great work!

[reefsurfer]

I too will be tagging along. I lived in tofino for a few years and spent alot of time in the tide pools, where I would colect water for my tropical system. There are alot of tank worthy specimens in those pools which hopefully I will get to see in your thread soon:)

OH, and of course, love the cheap aproach your taking. Man, people spend WAYYYYYY too much money on this hobby! Do it up!!

[Dale]

Thanks all.
Temperate water tanks can be split into two sub sections I think:

Cold water. These tanks house flora and fauna found at depth in the ocean and require stable, cool temps. Steve Weast of "Oregonreef" keeps such a tank and maintains a constant 55*F.

Tidal or transitional zone tanks. This is what I'm after. These tanks house flora and fauna found on the margins of the ocean (tidal pools, mud flats etc...). While the overall temperatures are much cooler than tropical systems they do vary from season to season and from tide to tide. Some examples of these species are: Sculpins, Tubesnouts, Gunnels, various crabs and snails, Barnicles, Limpets, various shellfish, Pacific anemones, Starfish, various seaweeds and macro algaes etc...
Few people keep coldwater tanks and fewer, tidal zone tanks so this really is a bit of an experiment. My plans are modest for this tank; a few rocks with macro algae, some eel grass and some wildlife. I mainly want to see how all the mechanical components work together and gain an understanding of climate and feeding requirements while I construct a larger tank to replace the 135G.

Here is a sketch of the current plan

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/135schematic.jpg

and the tank after cycling for two weeks

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_2709.jpg

Here's the backside (no surge tanks yet). I've removed the workbench for more room. I also need (choke choke gasp gasp) about three more gallons of bio balls!

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_2712.jpg

Here's a close up of the current sump

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_2714.jpg

Notice how it sits on the 2X4's. In my quest to lower the tank temps passively I've decided that the sump should sit directly on the concrete to make use of its (the concrete) natural cooling effect. This sump won't fit between the 2X4's so I've put out my request to the hobo gods and soon expect a 55G. long to magically appear. When it does I will get rid of the temporary submersible return pump as it is adding heat to the system. The permanent return pump will be in line, not submersible. I will also do away with the small skimmer feed pump as it too is adding heat to the system. It will be fed by a line tee'd off of the main return line. Actually, everything will be driven off of one main pump with no additional powerheads etc... I want to reduce my heat input as much as possible to either avoid a chiller or, if neccisary, to use the smallest HP possible.

[Manny]

That pic. of the tank from the front is awsome. I really like how the tank is longer than the hole in the wall, it looks like it goes on forever. I also like the lighting you have as long as your not going to keep light dependant creatures.
What is your temp. running at so far?

[kari]

Will the capacity of the sump work with surge tanks?

[reefsurfer]

Dale, just to give you a heads up. Certain types of pacific anemones have zooxanthela which feed the anemone through photosinthesis especialy the ones found in the shalow tide pools. Surely they can tolerate many less sunny days than their tropical relatives but might require the same intensity of light just not as often. I would think your different types of algea will require the same intensity of light, again, perhaps not 8 hours a day year round but SOME intence light.

I like your skimmer. thinking about building one like it. How is it woking for you?

I cant wait to see the surge tanks and how all of that functions. Ive always dreamed of doing something like that.

Keep up the good work.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Dale,

I will be selling my 50g sump tank in a week or two. It's 48" long by 12" wide by 20" tall. PM me if you're interested, since you were asking for one in one of your posts.

BTW, what size is your current sump tank? Maybe we can just do a straight swap. Mine has single baffle installed already.

Anthony

[Dale]

Well, my substrate experiment just keeps getting better (not).
Apparently the "green diamond" grit isn't a granitic based substrate at all but Nickel slag!!! Argghhh. A quick check on the www.targetproducts.com website (which I should have done if it hadn't flown under the radar on me) tells me I have a metal based substrate with low to moderate toxicity to fish. It took me by surprise as I never thought that slag would look like that.
So... don't buy that stuff :rolleyes:

[Delphinus]

Bummer.. it looked so good. :( Oh well, on the bright side, at least you found out now and not the hard way!!

I've got to ask though .. why not just use the real thing? Couldn't you just go to a beach somewhere and dig up a couple buckets worth? Or is there a reason that won't work? (Has to be probably the most economical thing though??)

[Dale]

Well, that took a little while (June 2006 - May 2008)

Here's a shot of the tank now

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_3839.jpg

Hum... It's no longer a 135G. tank. That tank was moved to the rear of the fishroom and now houses my school of freshwater sunfish. In its place I've installed a 75G. display serviced by a 100G. sump.

Here's a schematic of the sump set up:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100Gsumpschematic.jpg

The one change is #12 listed as a closed loop feed. The surge from the CSD was a little too much so I had to plumb that line as an additional drain into the sump.

and a shot inside the fishroom:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_3837.jpg

Everything is a little rough right now. As I decide that each system is working as wanted I will tidy things up (even though, as a hobo reef, the decor could be called "shabby chic"

Here's a shot of my return pump; a modified AC 110 powerfilter. Two of my goals were to reduce power consumption as a whole and to reduce heat inputs into the system (mainly removing submersible pumps that heat the surrounding water). By mounting the sump 10" lower that the display I could use the AC 110 filter as a return. It runs on 14 watts and the pump is external.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_3731.jpg

[Dale]

Here's the CSD (Carleson surge device). It's basically a three gallon bucket with three bulkheads. One for the surge line, one for the feed line and one for an emergency drain line.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_3832.jpg

It, the chiller and eventually the skimmer (not the current skimmer) are fed by this externally mounted pump (Pondmaster 250)

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_3838.jpg

Here's a shot of the refugium portion of the sump. It is lit by a Coralife CF unit sitting on the wide center brace. Some additional flow is provided by a small Hydor powerhead with a rotating head. The refugium currently houses three Pacific green burrowing anenomes and a tuft of Macroalgae. There is about 150 lb's of LR in the sump and display and I have used some pieces to make a bridge in and out of the refugium for hermits and other dentrifores. The blue bottle is just being used to trap out some rock pricklebacks that have been attacking the anenomes.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_3831.jpg

Here's what a prickleback looks like:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_3717.jpg

They are amazingly curious fish that can last 17 -23 Hr's out of water but they are savages. I originally trapped them out of the display (and put them in the sump) after they began attacking my sun star and now I must trap them out of the sump as well. It's back to the quarentine tank for them!

Here's a shot of a burrowing anenome

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_3649.jpg

and what it looks like when it's had enough

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_3799.jpg

[mark]

Great for the update.

For your CSD, how's it for putting bubbles in the display?

[Dale]

Hi Mark,
Not so bad, I'd say. It drains at the surface so I think that helps. I tried putting the outflow lower in the tank but the back pressure wouldn't allow for a complete syphon break. I'll add a video of it down the road.

Here are some more Fauna shots (sorry, I'm a lousy photographer)

This is a Staghorn sculpin

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_3796.jpg

and some Three spine sticklebacks

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_3828.jpg


An Aggregating anenome

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_3653.jpg

and this is my sun star. Keeping one of these was the inspiration for this whole set up. I'm afraid he is raiding the cookie (mussel) jar.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_3826.jpg

So far all of the Fauna has taken readily to frozen mysis, bloodworms and clam meat as well as phytoplankton, rotifers and cyclopeez for the barnacles and mussels.

[Whatigot]

awesome...
can you post some more pics of the whole set up?
I'd also love to see a video or more pics of your sunstar.
really cool and original set up man.
props.

[Dale]

Thanks Whatigot.
Rather than reposting pics, here is the link to our thread on RC (the pics should start on the last page):
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=890751&perpage=25&pagenumber=13

[Eyford01]

amazing tank! i'm actually looking to do something similar although not quite as big since i don't have the room, but i'm thinking of a 30-40g with a diy mini fridge chiller, but what is there for bio filtration? i'm sure live rock wouldn't do at all in those temperatures, i think i would have to theme mine around a few abalone to match the 9 holes in my reef, love those guys!! but any tips at all would be awesome its hard to find too much info... i was thinking on my next trip to the coast i could just scoop a couple buckets of sand and a few rocks