Thinking of setting up my first salt tank

[Ephraim]

Well i think it's time to make the jump from freshwater to a saltwater setup. I've kept several planted tanks in the past and I'd like to try something a little different. I want to give soft corals and inverts a try. I would like to limit the amount of equipment that I have to buy and I just want to know what kind of species i can support with my current lighting. I currently have 2 Coral Life fixtures, one is a 48" 2x65 Watt compact flourecent 50/50, the other is a 24" 65 Watt compact flourecent 50/50.

The tank I will be using is 72" long x 24" tall x 12" wide and has mirrors on the back and sides to reflect light back into the tank from the lights(works well with plants). For filtration i have a Fluval 404 and a 304. What kind of HOB skimmer would you reccomend, i was thinking of a Remora. I like the slim profile since i need to put the skimmer on the side of the tank. The tank needs to be bolted to the wall since it is so top heavey

Thanks for any input!

[Joe Reefer]

Hi and welcome to the board. :lol:

In all honesty, with a tank at that depth and the lights your planning on using you probably will have trouble keeping even the lowest light demanding coral, unless they are placed at the very top of your rockscape. I would also recomend using a few powerheads for additional flow and maybe just one fluval to run carbon in.

[Ephraim]

I've heard that mushrooms will survive in lower light conditions. Are these a coral or techincally something else? How about anemones, are there any "friendly" ones that do well in low light? I've also heard that colt coral is good in low light. If I add another 48" 65x2 would that make a big difference? I've found that most halide fixtures are too wide for this thin tank.

I've got a bunch of extra powerheads i can add for more current. Is just one fluval and a skimmer really going to be enough for filtration?

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Not going to work unfortunately. I had a Remora Pro on a 110g & it was underskimming. Unless you go metal halide & at that depth you should really be looking at 250w, your 65w PCs won't penetrate very well & your corals will suffer. Minimum I would recommend for a six feet long two feet deep tank would be 3 @ 150w or 175w, but that would limit you to med. to low light species, except near the very top. So many of us went through the same thought processes & tried to save money by underbuying. It cost us more because we ended up upgrading, to bigger skimmers & better, more powerful MH lights. Yes it is possible to have a minimalist system, but you're probably never going to be quite happy with it, especially when you want anemones & none of the hosting species will do well under your proposed lighting. 65w PC just aren't bright enough & they lose their intensity sooner than most people replace them. If you don't want to spend the money now on lights, go with a fish only tank with a few very hardy corals because otherwise you're probably looking at upgrading your lights, now or later.

I have used NO, PC 65w, & PC 96w and now all my reefs are lit by MH. I do know some reefers who have had good luck with VHOm, but 65w over a 24" tank is just too little over too deep.

JMO & JME,

Anthony

[Ephraim]

What kind of skimmer would you reccomend? Keep in mind the space that i have available is 12"x 5", rather cramped. When you say 3x150w, is that on it's own or in conjunction with the PCs? Do you have any brands you would reccomend for this, I'd like the fixture to be no more than 7" wide so I can still reach into the tank with the light on.

I have no experience using MH lights, do they generate alot of heat? Can i sit the directly on the glass top safely. I was wanting the tank in my living room, and i'd prefer to not have it raised up and light the entire room. I could build a wood top if need be, but i'm lazy :)

[Midknight]

Where are you located?
lots of people are good with hands on help but we need to know how long are arms need to be.:lol:

[Pan]

What kind of skimmer would you reccomend? Keep in mind the space that i have available is 12"x 5", rather cramped. When you say 3x150w, is that on it's own or in conjunction with the PCs? Do you have any brands you would reccomend for this, I'd like the fixture to be no more than 7" wide so I can still reach into the tank with the light on.

I have no experience using MH lights, do they generate alot of heat? Can i sit the directly on the glass top safely. I was wanting the tank in my living room, and i'd prefer to not have it raised up and light the entire room. I could build a wood top if need be, but i'm lazy :)
yes the generate a lot of heat, as in melting crispy skin if you touched them after they were running, i don't thinkanyone would recomend sitting them on the top of anything... :) Euroreefs are a nice little skimmer...

[Ephraim]

I'm located in Calgary Alberta. Would it still be ok to leave the glass top on there and lift the lights, say 1.5"-2" off the glass. The air is so dry here that w/o a top evap is a huge problem. With 150w bulbs, will small fans be needed/helpful? What's the useful lifespan on a MH?

I'll look up some specs on Euroreef, thanks.

*sigh* ...i'm gonna make myself broke on this one, aren't I? I've got about $900 to burn from selling all my freshwater fish before I moved.

[Joe Reefer]

IIRC euroreef doesn't make HOB skimmers. And you can kiss that 900 bux good-bye.:mrgreen:

[Ephraim]

yeah I couldn't seem to find any HOB specs, that might be why. What about Bak Paks, are these a good product?

[Joe Reefer]

You could try a coralife superskimmer, I have no experience with them. Some people dont use skimmers, Bev for example is an advocate of simple systems. I think you have to be very dilagent with maintainence though.

[Buddyboy]

It's tricky to find a HOB skimmer for a tank that size. A Deltec MCE600 might do the trick though. Not cheap, but up to the job in a tank your size that has a moderate bioload. Another consideration would be a TUNZE DOC skimmer. They can be mounted in sump or inside the display tank itself. They should be able to handle your tank size as well. The Deltec skimmer might skim more aggresively though. Good luck!

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

For that size tank, I don't think there are any "relatively inexpensive" HOB skimmers that will really do a good job skimming that volume. I heard Deltecs are great but $$$$$$. Might want to consider a recirculating skimmer that sits on the floor instead (since you have no sump). Yeah, a tank that size will also need approx. 100lbs of Live Rock, so that $900 isn't going to stretch to cover just the LR, better lights, and good skimmer. Really think about this decision because it will make your $$ disappear much faster than a freshwater setup.

Anthony

[Ephraim]

This is probably a dumb question, but what exactly does a skimmer do for the tank that a canister filter won't?

When it comes to maintenance, I am very religous on getting water changes done weekly without question. Been doing water changes on Sundays for years, hell, friends and family even know not to call me on Sundays because of it.

[Buddyboy]

You might want to do a bit of reading first before you jump into this. Alot of the hardware and processes involved are much different than freshwater. And the crud that builds up in saltwater is alot different than freshwater crud. More oily and protieny and these can only be removed with the use of a good skimmer. I guess waterchanges would help but why not make your life easier??? If you want to go super cheap on the skimmer, you could try a Coralife Superskimmer, but you get what you pay for.

Greg

[Ephraim]

Yeah I still need to alot of reading on this. I realize it's going to be a long project, I'm not going to have a super fantastic looking tank overnight. But it's nice getting some practicle, first hand advice from all of you, thanks.

Any brand reccomendations for a recirculating skimmer?

Next question, will all my old lava rock work as a base for the live rock? Is there any problems with this stuff in salt aquaria?

[Buddyboy]

Deltec, Euroreef and H&S all make good recirculating skimmers. Maybe you should bite the bullet and get your tank drilled and get a sump??? I started with an undrilled tank and HOB skimmer and I really regret it. Already looking to upgrade!!! You need to try doing things right the first time in this hobby (and not necessarily cheaply), or you'll regret it and pay DOUBLE! :( :) haha

Greg

[Joe Reefer]

Next question, will all my old lava rock work as a base for the live rock? Is there any problems with this stuff in salt aquaria?

I wouldn't.

[Ephraim]

I'd prefer not to drill, I don't mind doing a little extra work for maintenance. I enjoy messing around in my tanks, that's half the fun.

I don't plan on keeping any fish in here so that should reduce my filtering requirements, correct? Basically all I want to have is snails and hermits to keep the tank clean and have a few type of soft corals growing on the rocks, more of a "still life" that's why I like planted tanks.

[Ephraim]

what's wrong with using lava rock?

[fkshiu]

I'd prefer not to drill, I don't mind doing a little extra work for maintenance. I enjoy messing around in my tanks, that's half the fun.

I don't plan on keeping any fish in here so that should reduce my filtering requirements, correct? Basically all I want to have is snails and hermits to keep the tank clean and have a few type of soft corals growing on the rocks, more of a "still life" that's why I like planted tanks.

I've seen a few fishless reef tanks, but a low fishload is probably more beneficial to corals than no fishload. This is because fish are a natural part of a reef ecosystem. In fact, most corals actually eat fish poo. Think of the fish in a planted tank providing their natural fertilizer to the plants.

[Joe Reefer]

what's wrong with using lava rock?

This is my opinion and other people believe it is ok to use. I dont. Lava rock can have traces of copper, silver, zinc, iron and all sorts of other metallic things that will kill or at least harm your reef tank. Your best bet is live rock and in your case to cut costs some base rock.

[Ephraim]

Good point, i never even thought of the metallic content. Would Tufa have the same problem? I have a ton of that lying around to that I'm probably not going to use anytime soon.

If the fish will benefit the corals, then I'll look at keeping a few fish as well, maybe some blennies or gobies. I can keep a blacktip reef shark in this size tank right? (j/k) :)

[woodcarver]

Hi Ephraim , I too will be soon making the plunge after keeping freshwater for many years and dabbling in saltwater many many years ago.
Just reading the thread and understanding that your pockets are not deep ,it may be a good idea to rethink the size of your proposed system.That is one pretty large tank and as the guys say will soon bust your budget.( you will need more and bigger sizes of everything )
The cost of a tank is only a small percentage of the cost of the whole system so why not go a little smaller ?
There are some amazing medium size set -ups on this site .
I am going to start with a 30 gallon cube that I picked up from a member for $60.00.
FISH ,( chad)Has a cube currently being set up and is giving us a blow by blow account:) :) of his progress. Don't be confused by the motorbikes at the beginning :)
............................ Dave.

[Ephraim]

I'm willing to spend alot more money if it's needed, I just want to keep it to what is nessesary. I'm a "go big or go home" type, ya know all or nothing. Plus all my other tanks have I plans for after i move. This is the only one awaiting inspiration. And i don't have enough wall space for another tank...literally, i doubt i have enough plugs in the house too :)

[woodcarver]

Way to go Ephraim ,I admire your chutzpah.Maybe I have got timid in my dotage !! Hope things go well and you show us what the journey is like .
.............Dave

[kwirky]

Welcome to canreef and welcome to the addiction :D

If you want to keep it simple, I'd say focus on these important things:

your lighting
good skimmer
sufficient liverock
a sump
either the dedication to dose your calcium/alkalinity daily, or a system to do it for you
a sump

or you can run a sumpless and skimmerless system if you feel daring enough.

those are the most imporant things and you can keep those simple as well.

Lighting your tank, because of it's long and narrow dimensions, would be best with T5 lighting. I'd recommend a sunlight supply fixture. If you're planning on softies and LPS (like my own tank), I'd recommend a 4 bulb fixture (four 72" lengths of bulbs). Make sure they're High Output (HO) driven and have individual reflectors for each bulb (so in other words, NOT the coralife fixtures heh). The PCs you have now are not enough, and if you were to add more, I'd just recommend a new fixture. The 6' length would make finding a proper length fixture hard. You COULD run two 250W metal halide bulbs if they're up high enough with a good reflector (a PFO parallel or something). They should be good for most softies. It would be cheaper to DIY. Some stuff would have difficulties in the far bottom corners though, and the middle bottom.

Next to your liverock, your skimmer is your most important means of filtration. Do your research and don't skimp on it. Go for something a little bigger than what you need too. I recommended the sump, because it opens up your choice of good skimmers drastically. Be careful, some brands are truthfull in their rated values, while some are enourmously overzelous in their skimming capabilities. (unless you go with a skimmerless system, explained later)

I'd recommend getting in touch with reefers in your area, or maybe keeping an eye on any local buy&sell papers for people selling liverock, or selling entire systems. You can get liverock for much cheaper than the store from a fellow reefer (or ex-reefer if they're selling or piecing their system out). If you can find some of good quality though (not overgrown with macro algae, covered in undesireable polyps, etc).

Like I said, a sump is VERY beneficial for a reef tank. You can put a skimmer in it. It keeps the display tank's water level even. It just makes everything so much more simpler. Plumb it off the back, instead of the bottom. You can keep it even simpler by drilling for your drain, instead of an overflow.

As for dosing, you'll have to maintain your calcium. You can go cheap, and mix kalk or two part mixture every day. I hated the daily chore of top-off, so I made a ghetto style DIY air driven top-off that doses kalkwasser mix for me. Plenty enough calcium for soft corals and LPS. You can spend the moolah on a litermeter to do it for you if you want, too. Just keep in mind it gets tedious to do it every single day, and if somone misses their dosing the animals feel it. If you're looking at something automatic, dosing pumps are the simplest to run, and for the same price as a high end calcium reactor, you get something MUCH easier to setup, and very easy to adjust down the road as your calcium demand changes. (no dosing required in a skimmerless system. more later)

And a sump. Did I mention a sump? lol

(i know some of you run sumpless and go you; i just know there's so many others that swear by their sumps. unless you have a skimmerless system. more later lol)

Whatever you do, you'll wish you had done some things different 6 months after you set it up :)

The gung ho attitude is great :)

You probably have an RO system if you have a planted tank, unless you have soft water in the first place. If you do have the RO, add a deionizer on a valve you can turn on for your saltwater, and turn off for your freshwater.

Oh!

Oh yeah! skimmerless systems! If you want to go REAL simple, you can do some research on skimmerless systems. They do weekly water changes, and it's quite doable if your bioload is kept way down (fewer fish, more inverts). You'll go through a lot more RO/DI water, and a lot more salt, but you'll have a more natural system, and dosing would be almost unimportant because your salt mix will maintain everything. Weekly 10-20% changes are usually sufficient to run skimmerless. Your liverock will take a lot longer to cycle though if it's not cured in any way in the first place.

[Renegade]

hey I've been in this hobby for almost 2 years now. And its not until the last couple weeks that i have been truly happy with my tank. I to "budgeted” to ensure that I only bought the essentials. And that turned out to be ALL the wrong things. Like you I just wanted to dabble in it, get my feet what keep just a few corals. But my set up did nothing but kill things over time and made me spend way more money then doing it right the first time.

Oh BTW My first tank was a 44g corner tank 2ft tall as well with some corallife PC 50/50 to light it with a hang-on skimmer. As well I ran a XP1 for filtration.

Mistake 1: XP1, let your live rock filter your tank, this caused nothing but problems for me and I could never keep up with maintaining it b/c it was so much work cleaning it, once a week just never seemed enough.

Mistake 2 Hang-on Skimmer: b/c your tank is constituently change level’s you can never really dial in the skimmer to properly skim, so you must have some kind of top off IMO to truly make a HOS work.

Mistake 3: lights tank is too deep. There nothing else to say really buy the write on the first time b/c otherwise every time I bought a coral it would just die not write away but in time it would slowly wither away.

So what I’ve done now and in 2 weeks and I’m not even kidding my tank is a whole new tank I have never seen it this way before. I added a overflow, put in a sump, took off my hang-on skimmer, bought a decent in-sump and in the process of buying 250w MH.

One of the biggest things with salt I’ve notice and this is just my opinion but some of the nicest tanks out there, water changes are done once to every 3 months the maintenance on salt is a whole different kind. Remember you are creating a sum-what self-sustaining ecosystem. Mechanical filtration just creates dumping grounds for waste.

Anyways do it write the first time to the best of you ability go to local stores or fellow reefers houses and check out there systems ask about filtration, check out what the use filter canisters for if at all, (some people empty them and fill them with crushed coral) honestly I wish someone just told me this is what I needed and there was no other way b/c even though skimmer less systems are possible, as someone new to this if you look at the people that run skimmer less systems that are truly remarkable have a lot of experience in my opinion and know exactly what there doing

but honestly GO SLOW and save your money nothing says you have to build it overnight, as you mentioned you have lots of tanks, so what if this one takes you 6 months to set b/c you buying the quality system that you’ll be happy with in the end

Kyle

anyways Good luck keep us posted

[Manny]

You should check out the pictures area of this board (top left of the home page) and have a look at some of the systems on there so you get an idea of what things look like in astablished tanks.

The best advise I can give you is do your reasurch, and buy the right equipment that is to the right specs. for your tank. Don't cut corners, this will only give you more trouble than it is worth and you will have trouble keeping things alive or healthy. Also TAKE YOUR TIME... Don't rush things.

If done properly this is a very rewarding hobby. Good luck :)

[Manny]

I use a Coral Life Super Skimmer that is rated up to 200gal on my 65gal tank. Thay can be used as hang on or in sump. I am very happy with it but the skimmer is rated for a tank that is almost 4 times larger than the one I am using it on, so keep that in mind.

[Ephraim]

Well i've decided that i will drop the money on some MH. I'm interested in the Coral Life hang on tank mounts w/ 150W 20K. What's better 20K or 14K?

http://www.esuweb.com/cardfile.asp?ItemNumber=53601&IDProductRelationship=332

Anyone have experience with these? I ws thinking of maybe 3 spaced down the length of the tank. Also i was thinking of the fixtures that Marcingo mentions in the product review forum. I realize these will need a little bit more work on my part, is it worth it to save a few bucks?

Back to skimmers...The hole in the wall where i am putting the tank has a clearance of 3.5" on each side. So i would have the room for putting a slim skimmer on each end. Would this suffice?

On the topic of the sump, does anyone know anyone in the Calgary area that could drill holes for me(not Bow Valley)? Any idea on cost?

Do anyone have some good links for DIY dosing systems. I'm fine with daily dosing maually(i do it with my plant tanks), but I'd like to explore my options.

I'm so amazed at how helpful you all are! This forum rocks!

[Der_Iron_Chef]

Hey! I started into this hobby a few months ago, and it's definitely a huge learning curve. This website will teach you more than any book or LFS ever will!

One thing: I spent $400 on live rock, and since that time, I've seen members online here selling theirs for a fraction of the price! Already cured! *sigh* I think you should be patient in acquiring the live rock, because you will then have more money to spend on better lighting and a better skimmer (as everyone has advised already).

Two things I feel I want to add:

1) If you don't go with a sump, think about some auto top-off system. You're right about the crazy evaporation here in Calgary. Check out this site (http://www.melevsreef.com/plumbing/auto_topoff.html) for a seemingly easy DIY system.
2) Factor in the costs of things like: calcium, iodine, strontium, micro-plankton, etc.

Good luck! And remember...everyone has their own way of doing things, and you'll hear 10 different versions of the "best way"! Figure out what works for you and go with it. And let us know how it goes :smile:

[kwirky]

way to go on deciding on the sump :D

most glass shops can do it. call the glass guild up, they're pretty good people.

As for the coralife light, 150w MH would be a little dim for your tank. I have a 150W HQI bulb that I've hung over my 24" deep 120 gallon to see how it would look, for curiousity's sake, and it doesn't look bright enough to me. And that's a geisseman 13000k bulb. those coralife bulbs are not that great, I've heard. Albert at Gold's Aquariums has before and after pictures of when he took all the coralife bulbs out of the fixture on his main reef show tank. It's like night and day.

This is an excellent site for MH bulb research (requires Internet Explorer)
http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/

If you really want MH lighting, with the depth of your tank, I'd recommend 250W mh though. Like I said earlier however, your long and narrow tank would be much better lit with T5's compared to MH's. MH reflectors are tuned for 2'x2'ish areas, otherwise you'll be wasting 50% of your light in most cases. You would need 3 metal halides to light it, or 4 six foot bulbs of T5. Replacing the T5 bulbs would work out cheaper in the long run, even if you account for their 9 month life (compared to MH's lasting 12 months when run on electronic ballasts). Not to mention the power savings. 150W of T5 versus 750W of MH for similar light outputs :D.

check these out:

http://www.marinedepot.com/IMD/150/SL2413.jpg
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=SL2413
you can get 4 of these. I'm sure Albert at Gold's can order them, because he deals in sunlight supply. It would cost you about $460 for the light system, and about $200 or less for the bulbs, i'm guestimating.

Your light spread would be MUCH better over your tank. Much better light output than three of those coralife fixtures for sure. just make sure you protect your frags initially with window screen on top of egg crate on the top of the tank to prevent them from bleaching. I bleached some of my own softy frags at the BOTTOM of the tank with my own T5 fixture.

Oh and if you properly ventilate your hood, you can get crazy PAR outputs from T5's. I'm probably going to be carving up my own T5 fixture this weekend to put in some computer fans. Read you get like 75% more output just from cooling it!

Hey! I started into this hobby a few months ago, and it's definitely a huge learning curve. This website will teach you more than any book or LFS ever will!

One thing: I spent $400 on live rock, and since that time, I've seen members online here selling theirs for a fraction of the price! Already cured! *sigh* I think you should be patient in acquiring the live rock, because you will then have more money to spend on better lighting and a better skimmer (as everyone has advised already).

agreed... I've spent way too much on my rock heh. I'm looking to get the last of my rock through the bargain finder or the buy/sell forum on here. I read of a dude who set up a 400 gallon tank and only paid like $1000 for all his rock because he got it bit by bit "used"

[Ephraim]

interesting, are you saying that a T5 has a higher/better out put that PCs? I didn't know that MHs only last 12 months, someone once told me they have an unlimited lifespan. I thought T5's were only good for 6 months, 9 months does make them more ecconmical. How about power consumption, how do t5's compare to MH? How about temp, i realize that T5 need to be cooled, but compared to MH how is it? Also, what would be the reccomended suspension height above the water for the T5's. And these T5's would be suitable for what corals (low/mid/high)?

Also what does PAR mean? I'm learning the abbrev. slowly but never seen that one yet...

[kwirky]

ok...

T5's need to be HO driven with a reflector for each bulb to make them worth while.

A T5 setup where you have 4 bulbs for every foot of tank (front to back) is VERY close to a setup where you have a 250W MH light for every 2'x2' area and much better than PC lighting.

For your tank, T5's would be a very economical choice because your tank is only 1 foot from front to back, thus requiring only 4 T5 bulbs. You'll have the fun task of sourcing out 7 foot T5 bulbs though haha. This would only draw 150W. MH lighting with a similar, or slightly higher output, would require 3 250W bulbs for a similar output.

Here's about bulb life:

MH bulbs don't last forever. HQI driven bulbs can sometimes last only 9 months because the bulbs are overdriven. magnetic (standard) ballasts or electronic ballasts allow the bulbs to last for 12 months. Remember, most of the reef tank MH bulbs emit is blue, and our eyes are most sensitive to red; our eyes can't notice the drastic drop in performance when a bulb reaches 12 months because we can't see the blue spectrum that well.

T5 bulbs when overdriven, or if you're keeping high demand SPS at 18" in the water or lower will require the T5 bulbs to be changed every 6 months. Otherwise you get 9 months out of them.

Now consider the bulb costs. 9 months for $200-250 in T5 bulbs. 9-12 months for $180-380 in MH bulbs (depending on brand you choose. economical XM or pricey geisseman). They can work out PRETTY close if you're using economical MH bulbs. Oh, IF you can get 7' T5 bulbs and a fixture/retro kit for them, it'll be VERY economical, since the price difference between 2, 3, 4 and 6 foot bulbs is very small.

Now for power costs. In your tank, T5's would benefit. Lighting the surface area of your tank would only require 150W of T5 lighting, while MH lighting would be around 750W! (3x250W, and even MORE if you're using HQI lighting). So if you were to compare the cost of replacing T5 bulbs to replacing economical (yet still quite good) XM metal halide bulbs, the power savings would make T5's the same in cost, if not better.

Also, the 150W power requirement makes a lighter load on your breaker, virtually eliminating the chance of having to beef up the power rail supplying your fish tank. It would suck to have to reset the breaker every time somone's vacuuming.

as for temperature, I think they're both the same. If the ambient (room) temperature isn't higher than what you'll be running the tank, a good fan or two can deal with any temperature problems. If you can find one, those 6" clip on fans work well. I couldn't find one, so I'm using a 110cfm (very high output) fan from radioscrap that's AC powered (no transformer needed).

What I was talking about, is there's a thread on reefcentral.com where Grim Reefer is reviewing an ATI branded T5 fixture which is JUST arriving to north america. It has INSANE light outputs because of it's superior reflectors, and it's properly cooled bulbs. The sunlight supply fixture uses 'passive" (or 'no') cooling.

The sunlight supply fixture had an output 160 or something (close to 250W mh lighting).
the ATI fixture had like 330!
somone put 3 computer fans on the top of their sunlight supply fixture, and it increased it's output to 250, making it much more intense than 250W lighting (the mod I'm going to try this weekend. I'm just slightly nervous because it'll void my warranty).

If you decide on T5's though, you'll probably have to retrofit them because of your tank length, and that means you get better control of your cooling.

hope that helped. You can swing in to Gold's aquariums when Albert's in. He knows a ton of info, and I usually turn to him for advice, and he can tell you what can and can't be ordered in Canada.

here are some links to reflectors and ballasts n stuff:
http://www.sunlightsupply.com/product.cfm?sid=F7CACC1EE0815D55348B9707A59CCBCD&p=975&cs=products%2Ecfm%3Fsid%3DF7CACC1EE0815D55348B9707 A59CCBCD%26c%3D3%26kys%3D%26pgi%3D3

http://www.sunlightsupply.com/product.cfm?sid=F7CACC1EE0815D55348B9707A59CCBCD&p=976&cs=products%2Ecfm%3Fsid%3DF7CACC1EE0815D55348B9707 A59CCBCD%26c%3D3%26kys%3D%26pgi%3D3

http://www.sunlightsupply.com/product.cfm?sid=F7CACC1EE0815D55348B9707A59CCBCD&p=980&cs=products%2Ecfm%3Fsid%3DF7CACC1EE0815D55348B9707 A59CCBCD%26c%3D3%26kys%3D%26pgi%3D3

http://www.sunlightsupply.com/product.cfm?sid=F7CACC1EE0815D55348B9707A59CCBCD&p=973&cs=products%2Ecfm%3Fsid%3DF7CACC1EE0815D55348B9707 A59CCBCD%26c%3D14%26kys%3D%26pgi%3D1
look at the price difference between the 5' and the 2' bulbs, above. that's why T5's can be economical on your system

[Ephraim]

wow, well you sold me on the T5 for sure. the power savings will really make it worth it. Now do the reflectors reflect alot of heat down making it safe to mount the reflector on wood, or would this be a fire hazard? And what would the minimum mounting height be? Would 4" be safe?

[kwirky]

I don't think they'll be a fire hazard. My own tank heated up because of the light hitting the rocks, causing the water to warm. MH lights can be a fire hazard because the bulbs burn so hot. I think the heat from T5's affecting a tank is from the intense light warming the rocks.

But if the reflectors are separate, they clip onto the bulb. It's the sockets that get mounted to your hood if it's not a retrofit system.

4" should be fine if you have good fans circulating the air in the hood. I run my own 6" away from the water, hung from the ceiling so I can get my arms under easily to do maintenance. I have the believe if daily maintenance is a bother, it won't be done daily ;)

[Joe Reefer]

I have only saw one tank lit with t5s', I have used PC in the past. All I can say is you can't go wrong with good'ol metal halide, and if you buy e-ballasts your bulb choices are endless.....

[Dave C]

For your tank, T5's would be a very economical choice because your tank is only 1 foot from front to back, thus requiring only 4 T5 bulbs. You'll have the fun task of sourcing out 7 foot T5 bulbs though haha.

Did I miss something? I thought it was a 6' tank.

[Ephraim]

mustof been a typo on kwirky's part. It is a 6' tank, so 2 x 4 36" bulbs

[Ephraim]

Another question... sand. People always seem to use white sand. Is there any practical reason for this. I'm really keen on back sand and would like to use it.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

White aragonite sand helps buffer the water & add calcium to the system as it slowly dissolves. The black "Taihitian" sand (I think its called) may or may not add calcium to the same degree. You'd have to check that out.

Of course, there are a lot of reefers now who swear by the bare bottom method.

Anthony

[Ephraim]

That would explain why the white sand is so common. But without it, I would just have to compensate in some way, either by adding calcium suppliments or would a canister full of crushed coral do the trick?

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

You're thinking of a calcium reactor, which is basically a container filled with aragonite media that has CO2 slowly pumped in to lower the pH to dissolve the Calcium. Crushed coral will not do nearly as good a job of increasing Ca levels as aragonite sand or media.

Anthony

[Reefhawk1]

I would go with MH lighting. The appearance with corals is amazing especially when the light penetrates through a rippling current at the tank surface.

I have recently set up a 110 gallon system. This is my 6th system and the most expensive yet. I am running a coralife 150 watt HQI system with 120 lbs of live rock. I recently purchased a Asm g3 skimmer and have had it running for two days. It is amazing what a good quality skimmer can do in such a short period of time.

A drilled tank is the best way to go in my opinion. You can hide all filtration below the tank including a refugium to help with nutrient export. I also use aragonite sand in all of my past and current setups. It helps with PH levels and gives fish and inverts a place to hide. IMO a bare bottom tank looks terrible but if it floats your boat more power to ya :mrgreen: .

The best thing for a newbie to do is research and ask questions. Save up and buy proper equipment new or used. I learned the hard way and have spent way too much $$$. Good luck with your setup.

[ron101]

First off, welcome to the hobby. Secondly, there is more than one way to run a reef tank so different opinions are often equally valid. One thing that is for sure is that starting off in the right direction in the first place does save time and money down the road.

I would seriously consider using a different tank. Not only does a 72Lx24Hx12W tank require a lot lighting relative to the volume but the short width will be a PITA for stacking rock and because of the higher density of saltwater, it will look about 9" wide from the front. So while that configuration gives max viewing for a FW planted tank it may not be so suitable for you for SW.

The T5 vs MH is an ongoing debate. Personally I have not seen any numbers that declare one decidedly superior to the other. MH run 'hotter' partially due to them being a 'point source' whereas with fluorescents the heat is distributed over several feet. I suggest you compare pricing AND appearance and see which you prefer.

FWIW I successfully kept softies, lps, lower-light sps, and bubble tip anemones in a 24" tall tank under 10000K 175W MH for years. If you want to go with 'bluer' 20000K lamps factor in that as color temp goes up, usable output and lamp life goes down.

As for the sand issue, if you like black sand use it. Sand will have limited buffering ability in seawater since the water already has a higher pH and carbonate hardness. Unless you run it in a calcium reactor setup, your carbonate and calcium replacement will have to come through additives such as kalkwasser, calcium chloride, and sodium carbonate/bicarbonate.

I have had a few pieces of tuffa in my system for years. It's all encrusted now and difficult to differentiate from reef rock. So I would day use some (as long as it is relatively pure) if you want to save some money. Since it is so soft you could even drill some rough channels through them to make passages.

HTH

[kwirky]

I would seriously consider using a different tank. Not only does a 72Lx24Hx12W tank require a lot lighting relative to the volume but the short width will be a PITA for stacking rock and because of the higher density of saltwater, it will look about 9" wide from the front.

agreed...

that's actually been itching at me... I was promoting T5 lighting, because it would suit your own tank, with it's surface being 6'x1'. I had a 33 long nano, that was only a foot from front to back and 18" tall, and aquascaping that was quite difficult, to get the rock to stack in a good way. It was hard for me to keep it from looking like a wall of rock in the tank. Your tank's 24" tall, which may make it even more difficult to aquascape.

And like joe reefer said, there's nothing like good ol' metal halide.

Using a different tank is another option to consider all together (to make it even more confusing, too! :D), and I think in some cases, spending the money on another, more suitable, tank might work out much better in the long run. If you're worried about wasting anything, you can sell the old tank in a bargain finder or something. And spending $600 on a new tank and stand isn't much if your gear and rock to go with it may cost double that.

And like joe reefer said, there's nothing like good ol' metal halide. You could use a tank that opens up more options to you, so you don't HAVE to pick something because it appears to be the only thing that will work well on your tank.

I can say from being kinda new to the hobby (4 months experience), I had experienced the "should have done it different the first time" problem, and like many more people on here, would like to see you be satisfied with your choices from the get go :)