Ampmaster 3000 for closed loop in my 200

[TerryA]

Does anyone know if Dolphin has fixed previous leakage/seal problems with this pump and has anyone purchased one of these pumps within the last 2 months?

I am thinking of purchasing one of these but very wary of its history. Also does anyone know if this pump is fan cooled?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
TerryA

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

This pump has an unfortunate property of leaking at the seals. It is not a design defect, rather, it is inherit in the design and the seals need to be replaced in a timely fashion. As the seals get older, they will eventually leak.

I would probably stay away from these types of pumps unless you are good at servicing water pumps or you are alright with the seal replacement strategy. As an alternative, two Mak4s will do the job and they cost almost the same.

- Victor.

[TerryA]

Hi Victor,

Thanks for the feedback and advice! My only concerns with going with 2 Mak 4's is that the combined flow rate of both is 2380GPH @ 0 head, not to mention the increase in amps (if any). I already have a Dolphin 3600 ( not an Ampmaster), Iwaki MD-100RLT and a MAG 1800 on the tank.

The MAG 1800 runs my current closed loop attached to a sea swirl. I am trying to elimainate the MAG 1800 and replace it with a fan cooled pump with an output of approx 3600GPH so I can share this output by adding another sea swirl to the close loop. I could go with another MAG but I think these pumps add excess heat to the tank (even when plumbed externally) and I am trying to eliminate that all together as well as keeping the amp usage down.

Do you know of any other low amp/ high output pump out there that would be more reliable? Also do you know how long the seals usually last and if they are difficult to change on the Ampmaster?

Thanks again!

TerryA

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

It turns out the regular water pumps (i.e. seperate pump and motor) tend to be more efficient that magnetic drive pumps (the Mags, Eheim, powerheads and etc). The seals are not really hard to replace, but it does take a bit of patience to get them in there.

Mak4s are almost as good as they get (I think they are 90ish watts each) for these types of pumps. There is the iron might pump that is more or less a dolphin. I know of only two people who are using this pump, but both of them are LFS owners so they seem to like them. Iron might are available at spa/pool places in Canada.

Other alternatives...there is the propeller powerhead. It is suppose to do 10000 GPH with 30 or 40 W. And then there is the Wave2k...suppose to work pretty good except for some minor problems (poor belts). Both are more efficient than any pump for its given application.

Say, what kind of a system do you have ? That's an impressive set of pumps for a tank.

- Victor.

[TerryA]

Thanks for the info Victor. I just heard about the wave 2k but not sure if this type of application will work for my tank as it is built in a wall and is only accesseible from the back. The back of my tank has no room for anything but th sea swirls. Every inch of space is taken up by some large heads of sps that can't be moved.

My system consists of a berlin style 200gal (48 x 31 x 32) show tank with 310gals of refugium and a 90 gal sump behind it. Total water volume is approx 600gals. Its 4 years old and sps dominated. I'm running an HSA 1000 and a 5ft Claes skimmer, K2R Calcium reactor, DIY Kalwasser reactor used as auto watertop off, 3 SeaSwirls, 40w UV. I will try to send you some pictures if you like.

How about yourself, what type of set up are you running?

Thanks

Terry
Thanks

Terry

[Doug]

I am going to use Mak4 pumps on my returns and closed loop. I was looking into the Ampmaster and even more so, into, Sequence pumps. They are both energy efficient, direct drive pumps, but as you guys mentioned, they have rubber seals. Unless changed on a regular basis, they will at some time, fail.

If your interested in Sequence pumps, contact Jayson at www.saltwaterconnection.com

He uses them on his 500 gal. grow-out tanks.

[TerryA]

Hi Doug,

I was talking to J&L and they said that the problems with the seals on the Ampmaster had been rectified as of April/02 by implementig a new design. Also mentioned that as long as you didn't get sand into the pump you shouldn't have a leakage problem. Since my use is for a closed loop with the intake only 5" from the surface I shouldn't have a problem with sand damaging or wearing out the seal. However I'm still skeptical about how long the seal will last even without sand intake. I'm thinking that encrustation which occurs over time will eventually wear the seal out anyway.

Was this your deciding factor on going with the Mak 4? What pumps are you currently using if any?

[StirCrazy]

TerryA, try send a PM to DJ88, I think his was one of the rectafied ones that still started leaking after a month I think.

Steve

[Doug]

Hi Terry,
I just did not want a leak at sometime when I was not home. Thats the main reason. Plus as mentioned by Victor, the Mak,s are good pumps.

My current tank uses only powerheads and a large scrubber. I have used in the past, small Iwakis, Little Giant 3MD and 4MD.

Another reason I choose the Mak, is because its fan cooled, like a 3MD. I dislike the casings getting so hot on non cooled models. So much so, that I use a fan to cool them.

[TerryA]

Hi Doug,

Thanks for the feedback. I share the same concern about a leak while not at home! Having said that, as well as finding out the Ampmaster is not fan cooled which will undoubtedly raise my water temp, I think I will go for the MAK 5 or the Sequence. I'm waiting for some info on the Sequence before I choose.

Thanks to you and everyone else for the advice.

Terry

[Troy F]

I have the pump in question and am not thrilled with it but man does it give some great flow. Part of the problem Darren had with his was the size of the tank it was used on. Due to all the flow it had a lot of suspended sand. Any sand at all is murder on these guys according to what I've read. If I had it to do over, I'd go with a Mak 5 or one of those Jacuzzi brand pumps.

[TerryA]

Hi Troy,

Thanks for the input! Fortunately with a 31" deep tank I don't have to worry about suspended sand. Also, my application would allow the Ampmaster to run at 0 head pressure if I were to use it. I have quite a few colonies that range from 8 to 11 inches in diameter that would love the increase in flow this pump would provide. The question is, is it worth taking the risk. The jaccuzi would do the job, however I'm triying to minimize an increase in amp usuage and I think the jacuuzi brands are power hogs..need to confirm that though, they can be very noisy as well.

How long have you had your Ampmaster and what don't you like about it? Do you use it for a closed loop or return, and does it affect your water temp?

[Delphinus]

I thought the whole problem with jacuzzi pumps was the fact that they were usually somewhere at 5amps and UP. Man, you'd almost need a dedicated breaker at the box for that kind of pump. Otherwise generally quite inexpensive though (I looked at a used 1/2 HP jacuzzi pump once, it was less than $100! But man it would have cost that much per month just to run it. Ouch...) Pardon my random rambings, just my $0.02.

Those Sequence pumps look nice too. Although ... I sure do like the Mak pumps. I'm trying to find some right now actually. Hardly ever see them come up used though, you gotta be quick at places like RC when they show up..

[Troy F]

Here's another thing to consider; Darren did tests on power consumption on the Ampmaster and both he and I called Dolphin to confirm, these pumps draw double claimed on the website (the fellow at Dolphin agreed and gave a long winded explanation).

Terry, my comments on the suspended sand was more of possible reason for the quick demise on Darren's pump. I have a 24" deep tank and have had no problem (I've taken it apart to be sure). The design of the pump is, as mentioned by Victor, questionable and I think it will be a problem down the road. The same sand that go in the Dolphin pump also got into the Gen X pump in Darren's system and caused no problem there.

I don't know if you caught it or not but I mentioned Gen X's Mak 5 as a possible substitute. It's pricey but if the quality is anything like the Mak 4 it may be worth it. I think (off the top of my head) it runs at around 2000gph and can handle head pressure.

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

I think of Maks as being quiet and lower power versions of the Iwakis. :) The Mak5 is pretty close to a 70RLT and a Mak4 is pretty close to a 55RLT.

The Apr/02 fix was to relieve pressure on the seals so that the rotor can spin more freely. The original problem causes the motor to work hard and grind the seals even faster. I guess they were hoping that they can make the seals last longer by relieving the pressure. However, it does not fix the fact that seals always grind against each other in normal operation. Eventually, the seals with grind away and start to leak...as it is suppose to.

When you have time, do you think you could post a picture of your tank ?

- Victor.

[Troy F]

When you have time, do you think you could post a picture of your tank ?

- Victor.

I don't know if you were referring to me but I don't think I can. I don't have a camera or a website and nobody likes me enough to help me :? <---hard to imagine I know :roll: :)

[StirCrazy]

I don't know if you were referring to me but I don't think I can. I don't have a camera or a website and nobody likes me enough to help me :? <---hard to imagine I know :roll: :)

I would help ya Troy.. tell ya what you pay for the Ferry and I will come take pics :D

Steve

[TerryA]

Based on the very helpful feed back, its's going to be a Mak 5 or Sequence. I am waiting for specs on the Sequence line from Flavio at Oakville Reef Gallery before I decide. He's also had some bad experiences with the Ampmaster and won't touch em. It's too bad the Ampmaster has this problem because the flow is phenominal! As Troy revealed, it's also good to know that the power consumption is double what the MFR claims it to be. ThereforeI wouldn't be any further ahead buying a pump that has the potentail to leak at some point in time and comsumes the same amount on power as a MAK 5. The trade off for losing 1200GPH for reliability is probably wise.

[Troy F]

Just a couple of other points. The Ampmaster is silent; a very good thing. I've never seen the Mak 5 but Allen at J&L Aquatics said they are very big and noisy. There are always trade offs. Good luck.

[TerryA]

Hi Troy,

Thanks for the info. This makes things more complicated because what I didn't want is a noisy pump. This may take a little longer than I thought. I've heard the MAK 4 and the noise level is not too bad, but the flow is not near what I need. The MAK 5 is 1800GPH and although I would prefer higher flow, if it sounds like a tractor (LOL) I wouldn't want it. Hopefully the Sequence will have most of the specs I'm looking for.

Thanks