55” x 19” x 19” begins!

[Josh24]

55” x 19” x 19” begins!

Well the planning anyway. I have sat down and thought through the process of how I want the tank to perform and look. The tank will be created to provide healthy homes for mainly LPS corals but still be able to host a small sampling of SPS.

Below I have provided a detailed tank graphic & the equipment I expect to use. Many of the pieces I have selected due to the energy efficiency.

http://www.canreef.com/photopost/data/500/medium/Untitled-1.jpg

Please feel free to comment on my equipment selections, as I would definitely like your feedback! I really only want to do this once, please help me make sure I do it right the first time.

Tank: 86 gallons - 55” x 19” x 19” – (located on main floor)
1 – 2” return to sump
1 – 2” return to closed loop pump
1 – 1 ½ ” from sump to tank
4 – ¾” from closed loop to tank
Sump: 50 gallon tank – (located in basement)
Pump (return): Sequence Reef-Flo External Water Pump - Dart (3600GPH)
After 10 ft. climb to main floor 2107 GPH
Does anyone know how many watts these things burn an hour?
Pump ( loop): Sequence Reef-Flo External Water Pump - Dart (3600GPH)
After 6 ft. climb & 4 exits 920 GPH
Heater: Ebo-Jagar 250 watt heater in sump
Lighting: Still a question mark? Either of these two
60” Hamilton Technology Deluxe MH Fixture
2 – 250 20,000 Bulbs & 2 x 96 watt PC.
OR
T5 – watts & number TBD – suggestions required
Skimmer: Suggestions required
Fish: Yellow Tang, Hippo Tang, Royal Gramma, Percula Clowns x 2, Orchid
Dottyback, Purple Firefish x 2 & Scooter Blenny = Total of 9 fish
Corals: Hammer Corals, Frogspawn, Zoos, Red Brain, Plate Coral, Candy Cane, Bubble Coral, Acropora, Devils Hand & Leathers.

Summary: Please feel free to provide feedback on equipment and more importantly the way I have setup plumbing & flow lines. All and any feedback is appreciated. I will update as I make purchases and setup the tank.

Thanks again

[Josh24]

Bump.
Just looking for some feedback from those more experienced then I.

Thanks

[Johnny Reefer]

I'm no expert, but one thing that jumps out to me is your sump feed and return are right next to each other. Personally, I would provide some separation of those so as to avoid the sump return water being taken in by the sump feed line before it gets a chance to circulate in the display tank. JMO.

Skimmer: Euro Reef. At least a RS 100 but a RS 135 would rock.

Cheers,

[Josh24]

Thanks Mark ill check out the skimmers you recomended & make some modifications to the plumbing as you mentioned.

Do you think the pumps I have outlined will provide enough flow given the size of plumbing and locations?

[Johnny Reefer]

Do you think the pumps I have outlined will provide enough flow given the size of plumbing and locations?
Well the total flow of 3,027 GPH seems adequate. That'd give you ~35x turnover per hour. The positioning looks good to me otherwise, but again, I'm no expert and have no experience with closed loops or external water pumps. Maybe some else can chime in on that. (I use a big honkin' powerhead for my sump return).

The only other thing that comes to mind is to make sure your linear overflow length is adequate to handle the 2,107 GPH sump return. There is a calculator for this on Reef Central...if your not already familiar with it.

Cheers,

[Josh24]

Thanks Mark.

I don't intend to use a traditional over flow but rather 2 - 2" 90 degree PVC pipes. 1 will feed the sump the other will feed the closed loop. Does anyone see this as being a problem?

This is what Reef Central calculator provided for the Sump Return
Using the following input parameters
Gallons per Hour = 2100

Drain and Overflow sizes are calculated as
Recommended minimum drain pipe diameter = 1.89 inches
Recommended minimum linear overflow size = 32 inches

This is what the Reef Central calculator provided for the Closed Loop Return
Using the following input parameters
Gallons per Hour = 920

Drain and Overflow sizes are calculated as
Recommended minimum drain pipe diameter = 1.25 inches
Recommended minimum linear overflow size = 14 inches

This seems werid as Im using the same type of pump for both the closed loop & the sump return and the GPH is extremely different. Can anyone explain why that is?

[mark]

Couple of things.

I've got a Dart and had the impression they are a hi volume but low head pump. Good for CL, but not return, might want to recheck the curves.
http://www.mdminc.com/Dart.htm 50g isn't that big of a sump, specially considering it won't be filled to the top, sure you would want that much flow anyway through it?

For the CL intake could have it lower to help move the water a bit more. Also the flow seems very low.

If the CL intake is below the water line (for it to be a CL) make sure you don't have any vertical head in the calculator.

Pump curves:
http://www.reefs.org/library/pumps/

[Johnny Reefer]

I don't intend to use a traditional over flow .....
Yes, of course. My bad.:redface: Time to go to bed :smile:

Cheers,

[Josh24]

Mark,

QUOTE:
For the CL intake could have it lower to help move the water a bit more. Also the flow seems very low.

Thats what I thought but thats what the calculator kicked out! The pump will be located 6' below the tank but Im suprised the the GPH is that low.

QUOTE:
I've got a Dart and had the impression they are a hi volume but low head pump. Good for CL, but not return, might want to recheck the curves.
http://www.mdminc.com/Dart.htm 50g isn't that big of a sump, specially considering it won't be filled to the top, sure you would want that much flow anyway through it?

I checked the link provided and the return pump is listed at 2000 GPH with 10 ft. of head. Should I be concerned about the sump only being 50 gallons considering the main tank is only about 86 gallons? What would be the downside to having that much flow through the sump?

[mark]

The RC calculator might have a short coming handling a CL with multiple outlets and I think I see what you did. Entering 3/4" for pipe size, calculator restricts the pump outlet to 3/4" where as more likely you'll come of 1.5" then go to a manifold to split.

I looked at the curve also and for 10' head get 1200gph. Take a look at a pressure pump something like an Iwaki RLT series from the reefs.org.

The sump size in itself isn't a problem just having a really high flow could lead to microbubbles and having the lower flow helps detritus settle.

My system is similiar to what you're planning. I have a 145g/75g sump, Dart on CL, inlet 2", connected through a OM 4way going to 4-1" outlets. I'm feeding my basement sump through 2-2" drains (conventional overflows with Dursos) and returning with an Iwaki 70RLT and 1". Off the Iwaki probably getting 1000gph and pump runs a little over 2amp. My thoughts for flow was to rely on the CL for circulation, the flow to the sump really is only to feed the skimmer, heaters and some mechanical filtration.

[Joe Reefer]

My thoughts for flow was to rely on the CL for circulation, the flow to the sump really is only to feed the skimmer, heaters and some mechanical filtration.

I second that. Flow through sumps should be kept to a minimum so you don't end up with a micro bubble problems later. That being said you may be able to reduce the size of your overflow pipe. I can't find it now but there was a thread on RC of a similar tank to what your planning.

[LostMind]

Are you planning on drilling the bottom of your tank? I've seen at least 1 tank break due to that. Just a heads up.

[Josh24]

Thanks for the responses.

Mark:
My caculations using the RC Head Calculator show 2100 GPH but I see you point. I should look to try and get 1000 GPH from my sump return pump and possibly 3000 GPH through the CL. The question then is how do I determine whether I get 3000 GPH through the CL when the calculator dosn't take into consideration the things you mentioned in your post.

When calculating the head loss on the CL I added 6 ft. as the pump will located just below the main floor to reduce sound. Should I not have done this?

Lost Mind:
My plans are to order a custom aquarium complete with holes in the rear panel of glass. No holes in the bottom. Thanks for the heads up though.

[Josh24]

What do you think of using these pumps:

Closed Loop:
Sequence 4000SEQ19 / 4000 GPH at 0 head & 3000 GPH at 10 ft of head.
That should be plenty for 4 - 3/4" outlets.
The question is, is a 2" outlet enought to feed it?

Sump Return:
Velocity T4 / S4 1446 GPH at 0 head & 1000 GPH at 10 ft of head.
This should work well for a basement sump?

[mark]

Just saying you don't need a huge flow through your sump if you plan the majority of the your displays flow from your CL. Your return pump can be smaller saving cost, power and reduced noise.

Not sure the proper way to figure CL flow from the RC calculator. Guessing probably something to do with area of outlets (4-3/4" outlets is about the same as 1-1.5") but if you have a CL you have zero vertical head. Suggest a post there (RC).

Might also find some help here, at the very least, lot of pictures.
http://www.oceansmotions.com/forum/

[mark]

Some info on pumps for your sump return: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_3/cav3i2/External_Pumps/External_Pumps.htm
and more links at bottom of article.

Not to steer you away from CL but have you thought about something like Tunze Streams?

[Josh24]

Thanks Mark,

I have thought about Tunze Streams but would prefer to keep the display tank as equipment free as possible.

What kind of flow should I be considering for the sump - return to tank. Is 1000 GPH to much?

[niloc16]

i'm not raining on your parade but i felt the exact same in planning my tank, i did not want equipment in the display tank so i went with a barracuda for a CL. the tank has been running for a month and i just ordered 2 tunzes 6100 and bought 2 wavy seas to mount them because the CL is so loud and annoying you cant enjoy the tank so i'm getting rid of the CL. it would have saved me time, money and a lot work to have just gone with tunze setup. but i'm not saying a CL is bad, maybe it will be good for you. just my thought

[mark]

Sort of the same feeling here, for looks go CL. Had a 75g with three MJ1200, didn't want the same on my new tank. Just mentioned the Streams as you seem concerned about efficiency and flow. Since it sounds like you are placing the CL pump below the floor rather than in the stand you'll be cutting down on noise.

My CL pump is a Dart and it's below the tank. I still notice it when the house is quiet (can hear it humming now) even after the tank setup for months but if the TVs on or just talking it disappears. I considered having it in the floor/ceiling joists space directly below the tank but then it would have been where the HT is going, wouldn't of last there.

I have 75g sump and about 1000gph, seems totally fine. With my old pump could have 2000gph but restricted the pump back mostly because discharging that much back into the tank through a 1" pipe I was getting splashing and placing stuff was difficult. Going slower definitely found I had more crap settling in the sump.

[Josh24]

Thanks guys

niloc16:
As Mark mentioned the CL pump will be below the main floor so I don't expect much noise. Fingers crossed.

Mark:
I think Im going to shoot for 1000 GPH from my sump return pump & 3000 GPH from CL. I may go a little larger and just hold them back a little with a valve.

As mentioned below I think ill go with ...
Closed Loop
Sequence 4000SEQ19 / 4000 GPH at 0 head & 3000 GPH at 10 ft of head
Sump Return Pump
Velocity T4 / S4 1446 GPH at 0 head & 1000 GPH at 10 ft of head.

What do you think of these pump brands?

[niloc16]

i didnt want to sound like i was discouraging you or attacking your plan. its sounds like its going to be an awesome setup. any pictures lately?

[Josh24]

I'm not discouraged.
Sorry no pictures but when I get some ill post them.
Im actually just trying to figure out exactly what I need and want prior to purchasing anything. That way I can put some stuff on the old Christmas list.

Once Im into the new house ill begin the setup but that may not be until April. We'll see how construction moves along!

[Josh24]

Mark,

On that reef.org referal sheet that outlines all the pumps, are those wattage ratings per day or per hour?

[mark]

Mark,

On that reef.org referal sheet that outlines all the pumps, are those wattage ratings per day or per hour?

A watt is a measure of energy (volt x amps) think of it as an instantaneous value. To relate it to consumption you multiple by time eg.kilowatt-hour.

[Josh24]

Thanks for the clarification