Slightly Discouraged!

[Der_Iron_Chef]

Having put a lot of time and energy into researching methodologies and technicalities of beginning and maintaining a saltwater aquarium, I find myself slightly discouraged early on.

I read that the equipment I have is probably a bit of a waste, that I actually need more than I anticipated, that my current payroll cannot support it (!), etc. I'm sure these are feelings some fellow aquarists have experienced.

I guess I'd like to know, straight up...what do I NEED to have (equipment, food(s), additives, etc.) if I'm maintaining a 50 gallon tank with fifty pounds of live rock, 6-8 fish, and a host of LPS corals? Everyone has opinions (which are valid) on what is the best for this or that, but what is essential?

Would appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks!

[RicePaddy]

I have only been in the salt water game for about three months. I purchased a 72 gal tank and have about 90 lbs of live rock, devil damsel, two clowns, yellow tank and a bubble tip. The costs have been enormous, however I am lucky enough to be able to support my hobby. Over the last three months I have learned alot from trial and error, reading, and posting on this very forum. Knowing what I know now, by set up would be alot different.

My suggestion for someone starting out is to start with a nano. This way you can get your feet wet and will be able to gauge the cost, do your research and still enjoy the sault water experience. Once our out grow the nano, you can transfer you new friends into a larger set up and use the old tank as a quarantine set.

I love the complexities of this hobby and the life that I am responsible for. They way the fish and inverts interact. And the "Wow what is that" expression when I find something new, good or bad.

This is just my opinion and is what I would have done if I was to do it all over again. However I am sure I would not have even listened to my advise. I mean, everyone wants a BIGGER tank. Must be a male thing.

Will

[Ruth]

This hobby can be very expensive and within that "very expensive" realm there is definately a lot of variance. You can go with all the bells, whistles and gadgets or you can go relatively low tech.
I do not agree with going with a smaller system. They can be very discouraging for someone starting out in the hobby as they are more difficult to maintain and things can and do go wrong in a hurry. A larger tank is a lot more forgiving than a smaller one.
You would do well to look at the type of system that Beverly has set up. It is labour intensive but also low tech. I am sure that she would give you some pointers. You should also research the types of corals/fish that you keep. If your goal is to keep corals and such that require pristine water quality you are probably going to be discouraged because it is difficult to do without proper skimming, lighting, flow etc.
If you go slowly and introduce the animals that are appropriate to your system you should be able to keep your costs down significantly.
As mentioned look at Bev's system (past and present), go slowly, and do a lot of research.

[mark]

Definitely don't need it all right away, going DIY and ghetto, keeping and eye on the boards for used equipment can save a lot. Doing what you are doing now, research, so money is focused on what is required. Think of what you get now and how it might be incorporated into an expanded system later.

-good salt mix and with frequent water changes no other additives needed
-lights, fish don't need them, LPS generally moderate light requirement so probably can get away without have having those big MHs, look into PC
-simple timer for lights
-not sure if you have a sump, but a couple of power heads in a 50g can get things moving
-heater, and not running the big MHs, skip the chiller and get a muffin fan
-6-8 fish in a 50g, hope small ones, but can have tank without skimmer again water changes. A foam sock over a powerhead inlet can provide some mechanical filtering, cheap HOB filter also works
-food for fish depend on type but nori's cheap, lots of LPS like the mysis then there's the homemade blends by buying bulk frozen shrimp etc from Safeway

For me though, gadgets, bells and whistles are part of it. Just did a recir and feed mod to my skimmer, watched that thing foam away longer than I looked at my tank last night

[SuperFudge]

About 3/4lb of rock per gallon will be plenty.
Save your money for the lights and the skimmer....do not chince in these areas...the rest has some play.

Regardless of coral type, i would invest in halides....they ALL love it.

As for the skimmer, a recirculating needle wheel or the like are the most stable and consistant skimmers out there. ASM,Euroreef.....or make your own.

Time.....Something that anyones pocket book can handle. :)

Marc.

[Keana]

Hi, I would have to agree with an earlier posting on this thread that small is not always better for starter tanks. My tank is only 27gal Tall and I have to watch it all the time. Things like ph, kh, calcium all change much quicker in a small tank than in a larger one. Also a small problem can become a really big one in a hurry where as in a larger tank you get more of a grace period. That said.... I can also afford to do water changes a lot more frequently and some things like lighting were a lot cheeper. So I guess theres ups and downs on both sides. There is also lots of ways of getting what you need for less than regular retail. Lots of great used equipment, books, etc., gets sold on canreef all the time.

Bye, Keana

[Beverly]

If you are going to keep 6 to 8 fish in a 50g...

- make sure they are fish that stay small
- do not overfeed, but do feed the fish properly so they do not suffer
- get a good skimmer and keep it well maintained
- go BB and siphon out the crud when do weekly water changes

Personally, I wouldn't keep that many fish in a 50g, not matter if you have a skimmer, sump and refugium. They are going to make way too much waste material and you're going to have an nuisance algae problem in no time.

I totally agree with the statements about getting the best lighting you can for the tank if it is going to have corals in it. MHs are great, but VHOs can be a pretty good alternative and you can still have sps corals, ime, with them.

Here's my page on our BB 120g (http://www.lostmymarblz.com/120galreef.htm) that is sumpless, skimmerless. The highest tech equipment we have are a pH probe contected to a digital readout and a refractometer. Oh, I almost forget -- the turkey baster :biggrin: Water chemistry test kits are also high on my list of must-haves -- alkalinity, calcium and magnesium kits are critical for optimum coral health and growth.

Here's our page on maintaing BB tanks (http://www.lostmymarblz.com/reeftips-maintainbarebottomtanks.htm), in case you're interested.

[Reefer Rob]

You need a tank, a sump, 1 to 1.5 lbs of live rock (or DIY rock) per gal, heater, pumps for at least 20 times per hour turn over of your water, lights for the type of corals you will be keeping (I like T5s), and a skimmer rated for twice your tank size. All the rest are add-ons to make your life easier, they can come later. (JMO) :mrgreen:

[RicePaddy]

This is all fantastic advise. And as you said, everyone has their own opinion. I think the one thing that we can all agree on is take your time. It is very very hard to do but it is important to reseach every move you make. Consider every option and how it would effect future plans and the life of your little eco system. That to me is the greatest thing about this hobby. I still remember watching my tank when the only thing in it was rock and sand. And even then seeing life grow and little creatures reacting under the moonlights.

A happy reefer,
Will

[GMGQ]

Whatever your budget is, the reality will be doubled.

There's only so much you can plan, but once you get into it, things happen, or you change your mind, or you find a 'once in a life time' deal on a higher end skimmer that you CAN'T pass up, etc.

Once you get your foot in the door, you'll end up doing more research on new toys, and you'll realize that you'll WANT the better stuff. You'll find yourself telling your significant other "Aw honey, it's only $50 more, but you get almost TWICE as much GPH! I've got too many elbows, I'm gonna need the extra GPH..." Or "I could get a cheap MH ballast, or I could get an icecap which will save me money in the long run, and be easier on the bulbs so that they may last longer as well! Plus everyone wants the best for their pets, so when push comes to shove, are you really gonna cheap out on a piece of equipment? You're only gonna spend MORE money when the cheap one breaks down, or when you find out it sucks. So you'll wanna get the better stuff, so that it lasts longer. Then you think, I might as well get the biggest one, so that I can use it on my next tank when I upgrade -- think of it as an 'investment.'

All that stuff is only human nature, and the list goes on and on. One thing that you CAN control is patience. You can start your tank up, get the rocks and stuff, but have MINIMAL inhabitants. But again, once you start making fish shop runs, it will be VERY hard to resist adding 'just one more...'

I totally agree with others that you should start with a decent sized tank, so that parameter changes are minimal when they do occur. (psssst... bigger tank = more fish = bigger skimmer? :P)

Bottom line is, you WILL find excuses to justify getting the nicer stuff. After saying all that, having a nice tank is very rewarding. Dont get discouraged! Just take your time and practice patience.

[Johnny Reefer]

.... Whatever your budget is, the reality will be doubled. ....
Ain't that the truth! :lol: My upgrades budget has doubled, plus a tad more. :redface:

Cheers,

[andsoitgoes]

Ain't that the truth! :lol: My upgrades budget has doubled, plus a tad more. :redface:

Cheers,


lol - more like tripled, quadrupled, and more! Oy, all I have to say is I'm glad my wife knows very little about half the expenditures. "No honey, that's BEEN there all along, you must not have noticed it!"

[niloc16]

good advice, dont ever add up what you spent. lol. i guarantee it will hurt if you figure that out

[Ruth]

No wonder you guys get busted so often. Here is how it works:
-only the stuff you can see counts
-only the stuff you that lives more than 3 months counts
-only the stuff you are currently using counts (none of the pile in the basement of past "junk" and stuff you have upgraded)
-it is only worth current prices and not what you paid for it
-you get to subtract all the money you saved by buying second hand or on sale
-you get to subtract any $ amount for stuff you have actually sold (even if you actually lost $ on it - see #1 above)
-anything bought with Christmas bonus money doesn't count
I could go on but you get the picture. You guys have to get more creative to justify the hobby!:mrgreen:

[phillybean]

I planned to get a 75 gallon for 1500 dollars. I decided to slow it down a bit and start doing things right, I would say do the same. I bought my take 6 months ago and only have the stand, canopy the tank for the sump and refuguim and the lights (2 175 Watt M.H.). Do what IM doing, it's better to build a tank over a year or more, and spend a few grand, as opposed too rush into it with a cheap or incomplete set up. Save up, do it right and plan on something each month. This month my tank gets drilled and I build my overflow. Next month I build my sump and plumb everything. Janurary comes the skimmer. Feb comes the closed loop. March comes the odds and ends (salt mix, tubs for mixing salt, pumps for water changes/mixing salt etc. and in April I get the Live Rock and start cycling. Everything will be done right, slowly, step by step and with the best I can afford. Whenever I think I need to look at some fish, I go to my LFS and chill out for a hour.

[Reefer Rob]

Wow! Thats patience! My 180 comes home this week, I've already got the skimmer (H&S), lights (T5s of course) I'll have before the end of the month. A couple of months to piece it all together, and I hope to have water in it in January.

All bought with my wifes blessing- she knows how much I love this hobby!

PS: You really have to work on your hang-dog look. :mrgreen:

[Der_Iron_Chef]

lol...thanks for all the advice. yeah, I recently sold some shares to fund this...growing obsession *nervous laughter*

I don't have a wife, so I only have to convince myself that it's a good idea...which I'm able to do quite easily :mrgreen:

[GMGQ]

RUTH!! Will you do my taxes for me??? ;)


No wonder you guys get busted so often. Here is how it works:
-only the stuff you can see counts
-only the stuff you that lives more than 3 months counts
-only the stuff you are currently using counts (none of the pile in the basement of past "junk" and stuff you have upgraded)
-it is only worth current prices and not what you paid for it
-you get to subtract all the money you saved by buying second hand or on sale
-you get to subtract any $ amount for stuff you have actually sold (even if you actually lost $ on it - see #1 above)
-anything bought with Christmas bonus money doesn't count
I could go on but you get the picture. You guys have to get more creative to justify the hobby!:mrgreen:

[Dave C]

lol...thanks for all the advice. yeah, I recently sold some shares to fund this...growing obsession *nervous laughter*

I don't have a wife, so I only have to convince myself that it's a good idea...which I'm able to do quite easily :mrgreen:

Thank God I'm married. That's the only thing limiting my spending. I sold some books to pay for my two tanks. Should have enough left to stock them both if all goes well.

[Tarolisol]

It really doesnt have to cost that much.
You dont need a sump but they can be handy.
you dont need a skimmer but they can be helpful.
I just set up a 75g cube tank, and I did it for cheap.
100 bucks for power heads
90lbs live rock 200
T5 lights 380 (ok this wasnt to cheap but you need lights for corals.

so $680 for a 75g tank. If you do lots of water changes you dont need a skimmer. But i could still add a skimmer to the tank and the price will still be reasonable.

[OCDP]

It really doesnt have to cost that much.
You dont need a sump but they can be handy.
you dont need a skimmer but they can be helpful.
I just set up a 75g cube tank, and I did it for cheap.
100 bucks for power heads
90lbs live rock 200
T5 lights 380 (ok this wasnt to cheap but you need lights for corals.

so $680 for a 75g tank. If you do lots of water changes you dont need a skimmer. But i could still add a skimmer to the tank and the price will still be reasonable.

That's really reasonable...

I think to have a system so reasonably priced, you needed to do a lot of DIY stuff though, correct?

[Pan]

where'd you get everything from?

[ron101]

If I had to set up a 50 gal (assuming 36" width) lps reef on the cheap (without being ghetto) this is what I would start with:

- 50 gal tank with no center brace and stand
- single 150-250 watt MH pendant, fluorescents ok but dont look as good IMO
- heater
- 2 MJ 600's or 900's
- 25-50 lbs live rock
- thermometer
- timer
- hydrometer (personally, I would get a refractometer)
- salt
- calcium and carbonate test kits
- calcium and carbonate additives (turbo calcium, reef builder, kalkwasser or bulk equivalents)

Go bare bottom tank. Save up or tell friends/family that you want aquarium gift certificates for BDay/Xmas and get a good hang on skimmer down the road. I might be missing some incidentals but that's about what I would consider minimum.

[Johnny Reefer]

90lbs live rock 200

:surprise:! Now that is a steal of a deal!

[Tarolisol]

That's really reasonable...

I think to have a system so reasonably priced, you needed to do a lot of DIY stuff though, correct?


Well, i didnt include the price of the tank, which was a little costly since i had to have the glass cut. But tanks of normal sizes are quite easy to find cheap.

Its basicly a glass box with live rock in it. Thats all you need really.
But i guess if you start adding other things like salt, refractometer and the various other little thing, it would add up a bit more.

For a more expensive but still rather cheap my 235g tank cost about $3000, thats, a 200g starfire front tank
3x400mh set ups with bulbs
reeflo dart
ocean motions 4way
2 vortechs
marinetech calc reactor
33g refugium
coralife skimmer(but i do want a new more expensive one)
plumbing parts