Total Newbie with an empty tank

[BullDog]

As stated in the title, I'm a total newbie to pretty much any fish in general, so you may assume I know nothing :mrgreen:

Anyhow, I find my self with an empty tank, and I'm sure a lot of you know how that feels like an itch you just need to scratch.
After thoughts of filling it with some "pretty" fish, my twisted mind took me down the road of something more interesting. The term 'piranha' popped into my head. I've done a wee bit of research, and found they're not really for a beginner fish-keeper, and can become expensive to feed.
I'm curious though, if anyone knows about piranhas, what sort of tank do you have them in, and what is your average feeding cost (per month, or whatever)?

I've got a 30 gallon tank with all the accessories (filter, heater, etc.) and would love to hear ideas on what to fill it with!
Just to note, I'm looking for something that isn't to expensive, is easilly available, not too expensive on the food side, and is a good fish for a beginner. I was thinking either several smaller fish or one or two large fish.
Suggestions? :D

[Tarolisol]

Ive had piranhas before, and they grow BIG fast. a thirty gallon is way to small for them. I had some in a 55g when they were large and one smashed into the side of the tank and cracked it. I feed mine pellets so it didnt cost me much, but i here its hard to get them to eat pellets. I eventully had to give them away since they were to big.

[Matt]

I've kept piranha - some red-bellies - in an in-store 180g show tank, back in the late '70s. They got biggish, ~8", before we lost them due to some bad additives (blackwater was contaminated). We had wholesale feeders, so we never counted the cost, and they were a constant fascination to the shoppers. Incidentally, they were probably illegal at the time...


They are not a beginner's fish, IMO, and grow much, much too large for your current tank (although they're cute when small). I didn't find them too aggressive, and deduced that we may have had too small a school at 8 individuals to promote "frenzy" when we fed. They never bothered a hand in the tank, and sometimes were quite lazy about getting around to their goldfish. Maybe we overfed them?

Matt

[Canadbis]

You could come on over to my house and take some of these Julidochromis transcriptus off of my hands, I will give you the breeding parents for $15.
They dont grow very big and are a great little shell dweller

[BullDog]

Thanks for the information all!

Piranhas definatly sound like something I'd like to have one day! Unfortunatly, it sounds like I don't have a proper habitat for them right now. I'll definatly look into them more if I ever upgrade my tank!

Canadbis - I'd love to have some of those, they're neat looking fish! Unfortunatly, I'm in BC, but if I'm ever in Calgary, I'll look you up :D

I was also suggested FW/brackish puffers, or cichlids. Puffers I would imagine are a bit more demanding on the care side, but how are cichlids? (How do you pronounce cichlids, anyhow? :redface:)

[Johnny Reefer]

sick-lids.

[Tarolisol]

Cichlids are pretty basic, the can eat alot, but are pretty easy. Just cant keep them with many other things besides other cichlids. Brakish puffers arnt to bad, but you have to have the water correct. And make sure you get them from somewhere that already has them in brackish not FW. They as well should only be kept with themselves, but they are really cool fish.

[Cap'n]

Cichlids are pretty basic, the can eat alot, but are pretty easy. Just cant keep them with many other things besides other cichlids.

Not true.

Incredible diversity within the cichlid family, from 1" shell dwellers to 3' tank busters; convicts that will survive and breed in a muddy bucket to discus that require weekly water changes and specific water parameters. And most can be kept with non-cichlid fish with the proper selection.

Cichlids are a good starting point for a new tank, great centre-piece fish. Check out cichlidforum.com in the cookie-cutter tank section, will give you a good idea of what is available for your tank. Lots of choices. Pick something you like and build your community around it.

PS
piranha are boring

[ron101]

I will also add that you should really decide on what water conditions you are prepared to maintain. Fresh water can be soft or hard, and there is brackish.

As Cap'n mentioned there are different types of cichlids. South American cichlids like Angelfish and Discus prefer soft water while Africans usually prefer hard conditions. So even though they are similar species, you can't really maintain them in the same tank.

Water conditions in the BC lower mainland are predominantly soft (rain water). Hard water usually comes from well sources; it disolves and absorbs minerals. The good news is that it is quite easy to make softwater hard, whereas it is tedious to make large volumes of softwater from hard water.

BTW have you read up on cycling the tank?

It's a good idea to do as much homework ahead of time so to minimize headaches down the road. One last caveat: be very wary of information that you get at the pet store. Many stores that sell FW fish also sell other pets and may not know what they are talking about but will act like they do and steer you in very wrong directions.

[BullDog]

I will also add that you should really decide on what water conditions you are prepared to maintain. Fresh water can be soft or hard, and there is brackish.

As Cap'n mentioned there are different types of cichlids. South American cichlids like Angelfish and Discus prefer soft water while Africans usually prefer hard conditions. So even though they are similar species, you can't really maintain them in the same tank.

Water conditions in the BC lower mainland are predominantly soft (rain water). Hard water usually comes from well sources; it disolves and absorbs minerals. The good news is that it is quite easy to make softwater hard, whereas it is tedious to make large volumes of softwater from hard water.

BTW have you read up on cycling the tank?

It's a good idea to do as much homework ahead of time so to minimize headaches down the road. One last caveat: be very wary of information that you get at the pet store. Many stores that sell FW fish also sell other pets and may not know what they are talking about but will act like they do and steer you in very wrong directions.

Oh yes, I'm quite aware of the misinformation given by petstores. I've found some are fairly knowledgeable and some, not so much...

About cycling - I googled it, and most of what I found was your standard formulas and such, the exact reason why I dropped out of Organic Chem :P...
From what I found, if you seed your filter media (I have some bio-media currently set up), it reduces the cycling time and loss of fish. Is this correct?
I guess the basic idea is testing for ammonia, and doing partial water changes, correct?

[ron101]

The basic idea is that a tank that is not 'cycled' will not support any but a small stocking level. 'Cycling' is the establishment of the beneficial bacteria that detoxify fish waste. To accomplish this your tank needs a steady supply of ammonia.

The classic cycling method involves a small quantity of fish (relative to tank size) and a lot of patience. If you put too many fish in, ammonia and nitrite levels will become toxic and fish will die. If you perform a lot of water changes it will be easier on the fish but the cycle can take longer.

I prefer to use fishless cycling. It's cheaper, more ethical, and arguably faster than cycling with fish. Here's a link: http://malawicichlids.com/mw01017.htm but you can google it and find many others.

What is this bio media that you have set up?