Seahorse - Pouch Evac? Meds?

[bulletsworld]

I have a male Kuda Seahorse that keeps doing this. He will swim up side down with his tail curbed around and down also. Like a horse shoe shape pointing down. It almost seems like he trys to go right side up but his body wont let him, like a buoyancy problem. Could air have got into his sack perhaps?

After about 10mins or so, he almost floats around, then it seems he gets the strength to bend up right while hanging onto something. Is this just a fun behavioural thing the male will do? Or is this a bubble that got trapped in his pouch, since he likes to ride the powerhead current? Seems odd to me. Anyone seen this before?


I will see if I can catch a picture of this & post it back.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but...

It does have an air bubble trapped, either in his pouch or under his skin. Unfortunately, it's an all too common problem with seahorses, & males seem especially suseptible to it. You should check on seahorse.org to see about a cure. I've tried using syringes to suck out the air & that helps temporarily, but it doesn't seem to be a long-term solution. Good luck.

Anthony

[bulletsworld]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but...
It does have an air bubble trapped, either in his pouch or under his skin. Unfortunately, it's an all too common problem with seahorses, & males seem especially suseptible to it. You should check on seahorse.org to see about a cure. I've tried using syringes to suck out the air & that helps temporarily, but it doesn't seem to be a long-term solution. Good luck.
Anthony

Hi Anthony, I was hoping you would reply to this post. Thank you.

I KNEW IT! Just my luck too with taking over this setup with the pair of horsies and it being my first run at it. IMO it was the worst setup for them. I briefly read about a while back about the Bubble (Gas) disease amoung these guys, I think thats what rose my suspicions about this males behaviour. I just needed the opinion of someone with hands on experienced to confirm. Thank you.

I will definitely check out seahorse.org. Thanks for the web address. A few questions for you though... You used a needle syringe to suck out the air? I noticed at lunch that there now appears to be a bubble on the males tail. Every couple of days I also notice his pouch gets inflated but usually goes down over a few days, with the false hope that he might have been pregnant. Also it may also explains why he would change color darker then the female. Him being ill with a bubble?

Do you know if its true that the female will die shortly after the male dies? Just out of being alone? Or is it a must (if this male dies) that I run out and try to find her a male right away?

Thanks for all you advice.

[howdy20012002]

from the sounds of it with the description of the bubble under the skin, he definitely has GBD.
Seahorse.org is definitely the place to go.
They have some extremely knowledgable people there that respond with great advice very quickly with most questions
Good luck

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

It's difficult but possible to suck the air bubble from the tail. Puncturing the skin is a bit tough. Whether or not the female will also waste away after the male dies is hard to say. I had my two oldest ones (over 2 years in my 33g) pass away within a couple of weeks of each other. I've had others that didn't seem too phased by it, but they were in a tank with other seahorses as well. But for sure, check out seahorse.org for more pony info.

Anthony

[bulletsworld]

Thanks for the replys guys!

I'm going to check out seahorse.org. wish me luck. :(


thanks again guys,

[bulletsworld]

Well after reading like crazy on Seahorse.org. The unfortuate thing since I just signed up they dont allow me to post in the Emergency Forum until you 10 days after you signed up. :(

Today Male Seahorse is in rough shape. Floating up side down. Now he's not able to curve back right side up. Damn.

Read about performing a Pouch Evac.. Much debates with a catheral and others did a massage? Curious has any here had to do this method? What method did you used?

Also problem with using Seahorse.org is they list drugs to help this condition but since they are in the states I'm having problems finding these meds here.
(tetracyclin and diamox) Any ideas?

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

For a pouch evac, I used the plastic tip of a Joe's Juice injector, gently nudged that into the pouch & then massaged the pouch to get the air out. All of this has to be done with the seahorse still in the water, of course.

Good luck. Tetracycline should be available at pharmacies or the LFS or at least it used to be. It's one of the old time broadspectrum anti-biotics.

Anthony

[bulletsworld]

For a pouch evac, I used the plastic tip of a Joe's Juice injector, gently nudged that into the pouch & then massaged the pouch to get the air out. All of this has to be done with the seahorse still in the water, of course.

Good luck. Tetracycline should be available at pharmacies or the LFS or at least it used to be. It's one of the old time broadspectrum anti-biotics.

The tip of the Joe's juice injector..PERFECT idea! Thanks for clarifying the seahorse stays under water. So you use the injector under water as well and suck out air in pouch? Have you used your fingers to gently massage pouch?

I'm gonna check out a pharmacies for Tetracyline, as LFS here dont seem to carry. Does the stuff even work though? Any personal experience with it yourself? Any new product you tried?

Thanks a bunch, Anthony.

[marie]

The tip of the Joe's juice injector..PERFECT idea! Thanks for clarifying the seahorse stays under water. So you use the injector under water as well and suck out air in pouch? Have you used your fingers to gently massage pouch?

I'm gonna check out a pharmacies for Tetracyline, as LFS here dont seem to carry. Does the stuff even work though? Any personal experience with it yourself? Any new product you tried?

Thanks a bunch, Anthony.

Farm stores may carry tetracycline, I believe it's fed to turkey poulets

[Beverly]

Have you used your fingers to gently massage pouch?

When massaging the pouch, do not rub the skin as it will come off. To do a proper pouch massage, you put the outside of your thumb at the base of the pouch and let the thumb roll up to the top of the pouch. Sort of like if you are doing a total finger print of your thumb, is the best way to describe it. You should also see if you can get the pouch open a bit at the top, so when the air is pushed to the upper part of the pouch, it can escape.

I have lost males to air in the pouch, but have saved a few too. Good luck. Phone me if you need some encouragement, Lee.

[Dale]

Unfortunately, I have treated my male erectus many times for GBD. Sometimes it is a simple microbubble issue and sometimes it is a bacterial infection creating gasses.

To evacuate I used a bobby pin (plastic tip left on).
If you choose this method:

Hold the horse underwater so that your thumb rests on the base of the pouch in a way that gentle pressure forces air up to the opening. Let him rap his tail around your finger.

While exerting mild pressure, gently tease the opening of the pouch open with the bobby pin. This takes some practice with gentle side to side and downward pressure. You are really trying to ease the two sides of the pouch open just a little.

The horse will clamp but with patience you will break the "seal" of the pouch opening enough to force the bubbles out.

The key is gentle but firm - never forcing.

My male had this as a recurring problem and I got to the point of being able to express the bubbles in moments. It really ****es off the horse though!
The members on Seahorse.org will recommend Diamox, a prescription commonly used for HACE (high altitude cerebral edema) and list sellers etc... The problem is they can't ship to Canada. I actually got a Pharmacist to prescribe some for me after explaining the problem. The meds are administered as a pouch flush and should clear the problem up.


Good luck with the horse.
________
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[bulletsworld]

When massaging the pouch, do not rub the skin as it will come off. To do a proper pouch massage, you put the outside of your thumb at the base of the pouch and let the thumb roll up to the top of the pouch. Sort of like if you are doing a total finger print of your thumb, is the best way to describe it. You should also see if you can get the pouch open a bit at the top, so when the air is pushed to the upper part of the pouch, it can escape.

I have lost males to air in the pouch, but have saved a few too. Good luck. Phone me if you need some encouragement, Lee.


UPDATE:

Thanks for all the tips guys. I did indeed try your method Bev on Friday when I first tried this. What a stressful procedure. So hard to do this all with one person and nerve rakin. The Seahorse was not happy. I got lots of air bubbles out and was so proud of myself, thinking for sure this odda do the trick. The pouch had sunk alot. I put the male seahorse back in the tank and after a few minutes he was swimming back to normal with the exception of having a bubble on his tail. He still wouldn't eat though. :(

THEN... next morning this male Kuda was floating upside down again!!! DAMN IT! Tried again to release more bubble with no luck. Worried I'm injuring his pouch with pressure. 20 mins later I put him back tank to rest and hope for change. Nothing and he still wouldn't eat. :(

(Sunday) This morning... He's still floating. This is the 5th day with not eating. I am going to try pouch evac again, using the bobby pin method (Dales advice..thanks Dale) to better keep the pouch open while trying to get more air bubbles out. Thinking the bubble in his tail is what is keeping him a float. Not sure if anything can be done about that bubble. Thinking this Seahorse is already dead. I dont think I can help him, I'm exhausted and thinking I'm doing more damage then any good.

Any one wanna try? Any advice?

Besides his conditon, with out him eating, how long can a seahorse really live without food? Any humane way to euthanize a seahorse. Just rips me apart to think that he's suffering and starving to death. :(

[Beverly]

I have euthanized SHs that were beyond my ability to help them by putting them in a glass of tankwater and putting the glass and SH into the freezer :cry: I was heartbroken having to do that :sad: :cry: :cry:

[bulletsworld]

I have euthanized SHs that were beyond my ability to help them by putting them in a glass of tankwater and putting the glass and SH into the freezer :cry: I was heartbroken having to do that :sad: :cry: :cry:

Aww..thats sad. I would be heartbroken too. But its really hard to see them waste away. I tried another pouch evac with little luck. I see though that his bubble in his tail is turning more white. I'm thinking its an infection thats spreading. I'm exhausted with trying to save him as I think my efforts are doing more damage. He's starving to death and in the corner of the tank up side down. So sad. :(