Need Actinic Suggestions

[midgetwaiter]

I have a home made 150w DE pendant over my 20 gal with a Ushio 10000k bulb in it. I'm very happy with this setup so far aside from the colour I get out of it. The bulb has become much more white now that I am getting close to 100 hours on it but my zoas and my lionfish both look pretty bleh under it. I'm going to put a crocea in this tank so I'm thinking that moving to a 14000k or higher bulb would not be terribly smart unless I track down a radium or something and build different fixture. Most of the other bulbs sacrifice too much PAR.

This leads me to thinking about actinics but I can't figure out a way to do it. The pendant is rectangular about 10" by 8" suspended right over the center. I tried to find a way to get a T5 strip across the back but it was getting too hot because of the MH. I am now thinking about putting a couple of PC strips running front to back on either side of the pendant. I only have a 1' to work with so I can probably only fit 13w bulbs there. I can't decide if this is worth trying or if I am not going to have enough blue coming from them to matter.

So does anyone have some ideas or am I going to have to go back to Albert and get an Aquaconnect bulb? I don't want to see his I told you so dance again :(

[albert_dao]

Lol!

[midgetwaiter]

Lol!

Thank you for your constructive suggestion. Do you have those bulbs in stock yet?

[albert_dao]

Anytime man, ahha.

1" on either side is pretty slim pickings. Why NOT just get a new bulb?

But yeah, I don't have them yet. Still expecting...

[midgetwaiter]

1" on either side is pretty slim pickings. Why NOT just get a new bulb?



I've reconciled myself to spending considerable amounts of money on this hobby but spending it twice because I made a bad call the first time annoys me. I was wondering if maybe there was something like a problem with my ballast that was giving me such a yellow output so I went and did some research to find out what would be a good comparison. I pulled a spectral plot off of Sanjay Joshi's site so I could get a rough idea what the Ushio 10000k should look like compared to a Hamilton SE 10000k I happen to have around. Turns out that the CCT he measured for the Ushio bulb was more like 6500k and if I compare it against some 6500k CFs I have it's pretty much the same. Great.

I'll admit to not knowing much about MH systems but this came as a bit of a surprise, from looking at Sanjay's site nobody is really offering a true 10000k bulb but at least most of them get closer than Ushio.

[WWWD]

Stop wasting your cash on ghetto lighting.

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PFO-175PP55K&Category_Code=PFOp

[albert_dao]

Stop wasting your cash on ghetto lighting.

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PFO-175PP55K&Category_Code=PFOp


Heh, there's better units than that for the money (Sunlight Supply LumenMax 3, LumenArc Mini's, etc). And besides, the reflector has nothing to do with his inquiry.

BTW, not that I've referrenced it, but Iwaki bulbs are suppose to have some of the best Color Index numbers.

Anyway, PM me Aaron.

[WWWD]

It wasnt the reflector I was showing it was a small pendant unit that has built in actinic mini builbs. Dude it's up to you, a retailer can probably talk you into anything they have to sell but in the end if you still don't have what you want then you wasted a lot of money.

[albert_dao]

There's a few issues I have with a unit like that though:

- The heat from the halides will skewer the performance and lifespan of the PC's.
- PC actinic lighting is garbage compared to T5 or VHO T12.
- Because of the PC's being fit in the same reflector as the halide, you're losing a lot of light to poor design and that's not even account for the flashthrough.

As far as AquaConnects and other good 14k bulbs go, you'll find a lot of people run these just fine without actinic supplementation.

But whatever, I'm just a retailer trying to scam another customer.

[Delphinus]

I don't know much about the Aquaconnect bulb. Are you married to the DE idea? Because I recently tried out the Iwasaki 14k bulb (175W mogul) and man let me tell you I wish I hadn't sold my other 175w ballasts because it puts many other bulbs in the 250w size to shame. It's not blue though like what you would expect of a 14k label, to me the colour is "what a good 10k should look like." I guess it goes to show though that don't get hung up on labels because they mean next to nothing. The only problem with the Iwasaki 14k is that it's hard to find and it's not the cheapest bulb out on the market by any stretch.

But anyhow. The issue here is that a 20g is a small footprint to work with.

I did shoehorn some VHO actinics into my 20g canopy, and I had a 150W small floodlight style pendent in there. It can be done but it sure was tight.

If I were to do it all again, I'd probably just go with a good 150W lamp, a decent reflector, and probably not even bother with a canopy.

[WWWD]

But whatever, I'm just a retailer trying to scam another customer.

Sorry Albert if there are suggestions other than yours. He is looking for more options than he has already tried. You are far from a innocent 3rd party making suggestions, he is one of your customers and you are trying to sell him more equipment.

[albert_dao]

Meh, for some reason, I suspect that a perfectly functional $100ish 14k bulb upgrade has a lot more appeal than a poorly engineered $500+ pendant.

In anycase, it's pretty rare that Aaron picks up anything from me since he has other means to acquire equipment. My suggestions were made using the same problem solving I'd use if it were my own scenario.

[midgetwaiter]

If I were to do it all again, I'd probably just go with a good 150W lamp, a decent reflector, and probably not even bother with a canopy.

This is exactly what I was trying to do, while I knew that the "10000k " Ushio would be more yellow than I really wanted I thought I could live with the comprimise of something with that CCT so I would have better PAR for the clam. I was really disapointed to find out the 10000k label was worthless but I suppose I really shouldn't have been surprised.

The Iwasaki 14k is an interesting idea, I do have a M57.


It wasnt the reflector I was showing it was a small pendant unit that has built in actinic mini builbs. Dude it's up to you, a retailer can probably talk you into anything they have to sell but in the end if you still don't have what you want then you wasted a lot of money.


The PFO pendant is a good suggestion but early on I decided not to buy something like that because of the issues Albert pointed out above. I should have mentioned that. Also, if you ever find yourself looking at similar systems take a look at the Aqua Medic stuff, much nicer IMO and a little bit cheaper.

I also appreciate you trying to keep from getting taken by a retailer but there are a couple things you don't know. I do occasionally buy a few things from the store Albert works in but I actually work for one of his competitors part time. He's offering his advice even though he knows it's only a 50/50 that he would end up selling any item to me, he's a good guy.

Anyway, back to the original issue I actually found something that makes a huge difference, I pulled the glass top off the tank. I knew that no matter how much I cleaned it I would loose some light to the glass but I never figured it would shift the colour that much. I suppose it makes sense, if it's going to block anything it will be the shorter wavelengths of the blue light. I better get off my arse and build that ATO system. I still have the glass cover on the pendant.

So new question: Have other people noticed a significant colour shift with / without a glass top? I made the top out of a chunk of scrap we had kicking around at the store, I don't think there is anything unusual about it. Maybe I will have to make one out of Starfire or acrylic if I decide I need it.

Oh and one other thing I should add, I am in no way annoyed with the guy that sold me the bulb, it is exactly what he said it was and it's my fault for not making sure it is exactly what I wanted in the first place.

[Delphinus]

I'm surprised the Ushio 150k is disappointing, I've used their 175's before and been happy with them. I'm running an Ushio 14k in the 250W/DE size over my ritteri tank, it's not too bad either. If you're ever in the deep south come pay me a visit if you like and check out what the Iwasaki 14k (and the Ushio 14k-250W/DE) looks like in person.

I did post some pics of the Iwasaki here: http://canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=25588
not the greatest pics for seeing the overall effect but they kinda show that it's a whitish colour.
I really am a fan of this bulb so I hope that Iwasaki smartens up soon and 1) makes it easier to buy their product and 2) introduces that lamp in other wattages.

[midgetwaiter]

Now that I've been away from the tank for a while and come back removing the galss top really made the difference. I had a buddy over and we sat there for a few minutes playing top on / top off and it really is the galss. I'll take some pics of it.

I'll be damned.

If I get a chance I'll take you up on that Tony.

[WWWD]

Dosent HQI lighting need the glass over fixture to block UV?

[midgetwaiter]

Dosent HQI lighting need the glass over fixture to block UV?

Yeah I left that alone, I had a glass top on the tank as well. Screwing around with UVC is an interesting way to commit suicide.