Irrigation valves reefsafe?

[Chin_Lee]

Does anybody use these or know of somebody who use these to control their water flow from pumps in a saltwater setup?
http://www.rainbird.com/landscape/products/valves/index.htm

I'm looking to DIY a cheaper version of OM with these valves if they are safe for saltwater.

[Bryan]

Hmm, interesting. Have you sourced out the price for the valves. I guess the only ones suitable would be the plastic ones, as long as there as no internal parts that are metal exposed to the saltwater. From looking at the PDF files I couldn't determine. I note they have a rating of 10 p.s.i min. Is this because it needs some water pressure to help in the activation of the valves. If so then unsuitable as you won't find many hobby pumps that can put out that pressure.

I guess the main concern is can they handle the continous on and off cycling and do they make any noise when the solenoid is actuated.

One thing I note is replacement parts are available, which is a definite plus.

[StirCrazy]

well simple answer is they can be, but not the way they are sold. The have a steel screw inside them and a spring. so if you were to find a suitable stainless or plastic replacment for the spring and screw then they would be fine. I was looking at another brand that is 100% plastic construction, I will see if I can find out what they were called again.

Steve

[Quinster]

There was a thread on RC where a person was using something similar to this on his CL system, he ended up replacing it with an OM system after a few complications. If I can ever get the search option to work I will see if I can dig it up again. If you are adventurous it was doing a search in the Large Reef Tank forum looking at Closed Loop results.

[Delphinus]

I once bought one of the controllable irrigation valves from Rona or HD because I just had to find out the answer. I found out basically what Steve just said (only this was 4 or 5 years ago so nobody knew the answer). There's a metal screw and a spring that I thought would not hold up over time. I'm sure the parts would be replaceable with ones that would hold up with a little ingenuity, but I decided against it.

There are motor controllable valves used in industrial applications that are rated for semi-corrosive environments (which is what our SW tanks would be considered), but the problem is it's difficult to buy these in small quantities. I bought a 3 way ball valve from Chemline Plastics, I wanted to get the valve for a proof of concept so I ordered the valve without the motor (as it was a $100 difference). I had to go through the whole sales process with the guys, a sales guy from the Edmonton office came and paid me a visit at my office when he was down to Calgary for the day anyhow, and I bought the valve for $80. Kind of a ridiculous process and I never really got back to seeing about getting the motor mount, but I guess it was an educational experience. Now I have all kinds of sales material/documentation on things like flow meters, foot valves, needle valves, gate valves, flanges blah blah blah blah etc. etc. the list goes on and on so I guess I ever wanted to make skimmers for a living or something like that, I'd be set. Too bad that I don't (want to make skimmers for a living..). :lol:

[Bryan]

What about the min psi rating of the inlet, has anybdy determiend if this would be a issue, or perhaps a typo in the mfg specs.

[StirCrazy]

I found out basically what Steve just said (only this was 4 or 5 years ago so nobody knew the answer).

I think there were a bunch of us looking around that same time.

Steve

[Dale]

Why not email the manufacturer and ask about S.W. applc.'s?

I have serviced these valves in the greenhouse industry for many years and can say that they do stand up to repetitive use. They are used for fertigation cycles and in the summer can o/c up to 50 times a day.
________
smoke kills (http://smokekills.net)

[Delphinus]

I was thinking more along the lines of what would happen to the metal bits in SW over time, thinking they'd corrode eventually. Also there was something else .. can't remember what part it was, but it was a white plastic with these little tiny holes (sorry can't really describe it). I totally saw it getting encrusted with stuff and not sealing properly. I felt a ball valve would serve a closed loop better but unfortunately an actuated valve seems to be big $$$.

[Chin_Lee]

I sent an email to RainBird about using their valves for saltwater use and this is their reply:


Dear Chin,
Thank you for your e-mail and your use of Rain Bird products.

Rain Bird does not recommend the use of our valves with any
salt water application as it will surely clog up the system.

Again thank you for choosing Rain Bird. If we can be of any
further assistance, please reply to this e-mail or call us at
1-800-RAIN-BIRD (1-800-724-6247) 5 AM-6 PM MST Monday-Friday or 7AM-4PM
Saturday.
-RBTS Tech



So I think that puts this idea under the rug. Time to keep thinking of ideas.

[niloc16]

thanks for the research though chin

[soriano]

I was thinking about buying a couple of valves and a controller, so i went to Rona to check them out. I took 1 appart and found that there are only 2 metal parts. There is a metal rod that guides the diaphram, and the second metal part is the spring that is on top of the diaphram.

from what I could determine, only the metal rod comes into contact with water. the spring is on top of the diaphram, so i can't see it coming in contact.

HAving said that, if we could find a plastic replacement for the metal guide, then the valves would be useable...

hmmm... i wonder if it's worth the try...

[StirCrazy]

yup, its been done befor. either plastic or stainless (good quality)

Steve

[smellsfishy]

i've used my design for about 10-12 months now with no problems, basically 3 valves and a wavemaker powerbar, other than a clean out every 4 months or so and usually it only takes about 5 min per or just a clearing of the hole that plugs and releases the blatter inside. The 1" valve seliniods (shaft and spring) i have are stainless steel so rust is not an issue. The only unique thing i did was to put in a 1/2" (valved half open) bypass on the center of 3 valve just in that off chance all the power is lost to the valves and the pump remains running, as the valves are "normally off" the mod prevents a pump damage possability. Also i cut of the pad on the flow adjustment to allow max flow through as i have the 3 valves (2 working at any time, mostly) on a sequence hammerhead (6000gph or so). note the model valve i have come with 24volt or 120 volt A/C seliniods, i use the 24 volt with a 24volt step down transformer i picked up 3 from value village the seliniods are about $20 each to replace if they ever wear out, but mine have been switching on/off every 20seconds for 10-12 months 24/7. only drawback is the click niose they make but mine are in the fish room/basement so no worries for me.

[mark]

Wish Rain-birds reply was a little more descriptive than just clog up the system.

Are they thinking salt creep into the solenoid mechanism, calcium build up within the valve, what?

[smellsfishy]

there are likely just covering there but, I doubt they even know what salt creep is.
The way they (the ones i have at least) work is a small hole in the water stream allows water into a blater which fillsup, preasurizing it, which then closes the opening that allows the main water stream through. This is where the preasure comes in, if there is not enough preasure to fill the blater then it will not stop the water. they are originally designed for use on your house water supply wich is always preasurized.
When you want the water to flow the seliniod (power on engages seliniod shaft up against the spring preasure) releases the spring engaged shaft/stopper which is plugging the hole on the other end of the blatter thus allowing water to flow out of the blater which then allows the main water flow to push the blatter out of the way and flow through freely. It takes about 2 seconds to drain the blatter and 2 more to fill. In the valves i use the "in" hole of the blatter is smaller than the out/release hole so it hardly ever gets plugged.
Note if the "in" hole gets plugged which is probably what rain bird is worried about, the valve will just stay open because the blatter will never fill. If it did this on your watering system the water would never shut of obviously bad for an irrigation system.
I actually believe that these valves are better designed for our application than irrigation, then again i'm biased.