Question 2, water flow and designs for reef tanks

[StirCrazy]

Sorry its been so long.. summer and all, but time for question 2

This should be a good question to bring up some discussion, lets hear everyones thoughts and work through it to see how we end up. This is a little simpler than question 1 and I feel that we might get more participation if we start off at the basics and work to the advanced topics.

So lets hear your views, reasons, and ideas. Don't be scared to ask questions or to post different opinions of others, at the worst you might be asked to back up your ideas with some simple reasoning :mrgreen:

Steve

[albert_dao]

More = better? Heh, I just go crazy with the main tank flow using powerheads and whatnot. I lean towards PH's over closed loop because the newer ones put out a LOT of movement and consume less electricity. No plumbing to consider into the initial planning either.

[DanG]

More flow is good, but if it should be balanced. There's little point in having 5000gph through the middle of the tank and a bunch of dead spots that allow nusiance algae to grow. From that point, a closed loop running 6 or 7 outlets would be a good choice because you would be able to direct some of the flow.
Newer powerheads are a good choice for smaller or non drilled tanks because they can produce a lot of flow (tunze nanostream) with very low power.

[littlesilvermax]

I use a 6000gph pump through an OM 4-way. Love it.

As the corals grow I find I keep having to adjust the flow. Now that some of the corals are as big as a football I am noticing the odd dead spot.

[Reefer Rob]

I'm in the simple is best phase of my reefkeepng, (who knows whats next):smile: Two MJ mods at either end of my 72 pointed at each other gives me lots of random flow.

[Aquattro]

I'm using 2 Tunze streams in my 75, each at opposite back corners point diagnally across the tank. This give me oe dead spot which is a bare patch of bottom, so when I do water changes, I siphon the crud from this one spot.
I also have about 600gph from my return in a sea swirl, but that much flow from a 1" pipe is amost nothing.
One thing I notice is that the corals that are closer to the direct stream of flow tend to grow faster than others with less flow.
It also gives the fish some exercise when swimming around mid tank.

[rickjames]

I also run two tunze streams in my 150, a 6100 and a 6080. Now that the corals are growing in I could see myself adding some more flow.

I also backed off my return pump from 750gph to probably only 400gph and I have noticed my skimmer has been taking out more gunk, since it ends up recirculating a lot of the water in the 75G sump.

Tunze streams are probably still the best way to go IMO.

[kwirky]

I'm running a seio 1500 on one end of my 4' 120g, and i have ~500gph coming back from my sump flowing across the tank.

I would like to down the road get more powerheads to distribute my waterflow.

Advanced aquarist found that bleached corals have a higher chance of recovering when kept in higher water flow, and that they grow faster in too high of flow than too low of flow.
link here: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/8/aafeature

I have to vouch for that. I accidentally bleached two toadstool frags (Albert was right lol :redface:), and when I moved them to very high flow areas, they returned almost overnight.

Learn as you go...

[reeferaddict]

I have 2 Tunze 6100'sfor main tank flow, 2 separate closed loops on SQWD's for surface agitation, and between 5 and 600 gph on my return on a Sea Swirl, and 2 Seio 1100's blowing the back side of the reef... Somehow the sand doesn't blow all over the water column, but the flow patterns and the Engineer Goby make for some interesting shifts in the "dunes" at times... As things are beginning to grow in and take hold I know I will be adding more though. I'm looking at those 6055 Nanostreams to put on my 7095 controller with the 6100's.

[Jason McK]

I believe that volume of water can be improved if power heads are not fighting each other. Try and promote flow that is not impeded by another flow pattern. This allows you to use less gph and essentially get the same results.

I Run a OM 4-way powered by a Sequence Hammerhead pump. I'm not sure I have enough flow

J

[Ruth]

Ya know I have thought about this quite a bit. On my 190g I have a closed loop that is powered by a sequence hammerhead and then through an OM 4 way. I also have 2 X Tunze 6200 on a controller and then of course my return pump for another 900 or so gph.
On my 230 I have a closed loop run with a Mag 24, 2 X Tunze 6100 on a controller and again my return pump for another 900 or so gph.
I don't think I have enough flow in the 230g for SPS but it is mostly softies anyway.
On the 190 - if I were to do it again I would skip the closed loop and just have my return and 4 X Tunze 6200's for flow. The flow of the Tunze - particularly run off of a controller IMO just can't be beat. I might even add a couple of tunze waveboxes to this setup to get the rolling water movement.
If and when I ever set up my 300g cube I am not going to do a closed loop. Just 4 or maybe 6 Tunze's.
I am probably going to re-do my 230g this winter and am going to suck out the DSB and put another couple of Tunze 6100's in there and may add a wavebox as well and turn this into a SPS tank. My green carpet anemone has snacked on all of my gobies so I just have to probably find a new home for my black cucumber and watch the 2 mandarins to make sure they are getting enough to eat.

[hawk]

I believe that volume of water can be improved if power heads are not fighting each other. Try and promote flow that is not impeded by another flow pattern. This allows you to use less gph and essentially get the same results.

J

This is a good point. All too often it seems we are overly concerned about gph , adding ph after ph trying to get rid of dead spots. If the ph's are pointed towards each other you'll end up with a swirling type flow, although somewhat random it dies out quickly, The flow from the ph's essentially cancelling each other out. The newer ph's on controllers avoid this if set up to do so. After talking with Paul at Oceansmotions about my closed loop I decided to have my sump return(Dart) over the top split into 4-3/4" returns aimed down the back towards the bottom. Then 4 cl openings on the back wall near the bottom shooting water towards the front. 3 cl openings on the bottom about a third from the front shooting water towards the top front glass. This water bounces off the top eurobrace, back toward the rear of the tank and into the overflows. One more cl opening on one end. This one I'm still experimenting whether to have it aimed directly towards the opposite end or towards the top front rebounding toward the back. Almost all the rock is on pvc racks enabling the flow from the closed loop on the back to shoot under the rocks towards the front. The cl is on a Oceansmotions 4-way and Barracuda. So far I like this set-up. There are no areas that are blasting 24/7 but rather large amounts of water moving in concert with each other in alternating patterns. It takes about a week before there is any noticeable collection of detritus on the BB and then only in a few spots, which is easily vacummed out. The tank is 375g 8'x30"x30"

[vanreefer]

I have read multiple times from respected marine biologist types (Calfo et al.)that flow is second only to water quality in importance in a closed system. It makes sense really that in order to deliver nutrients etc that are in the water collumn you have to have good flow... I currently run a Dart on a CL with 4 outs 2 on the bottom pane of glass directed at the front of the rockwork and 2 on the back pane blowing behind the rockwork (soon to install the PVC rock rack)... return from the sump at about 900 Gph after head blowing at the surface for aggitation and finally a Tunze 6100 on a single controller... I notice way better polyp extention than I had ever seen when these corals were in my old 75 with way less flow (2 months ago)... furthermore I have the Tunze pointing toward one end of the tank and the polyp extention is greater on that side of the tank, which makes me believe that the corals are happier over there... time to ask the wife if I'm allowed to buy another 6100... oh and then a multicontroller... oh and then...and then... I wonder why i'm always in trouble?? :wink:

[Johnny Reefer]

I have 2 Tunze 6100'sfor main tank flow, ....... I'm looking at those 6055 Nanostreams to put on my 7095 controller with the 6100's.
Regarding those 6100's......I take it they have to be run off a controller to take advantage of their variable speed control feature?

Thanx much,

[Ruth]

Yes the 6100's have to be run of a controller - it is whether you go to a single controller or a multi (up to 4 powerhead) controller. I have only used the multi controller and have never really investigated the single controllers.

[Johnny Reefer]

Yes the 6100's have to be run of a controller - it is whether you go to a single controller or a multi (up to 4 powerhead) controller. I have only used the multi controller and have never really investigated the single controllers.
So how the heck does that work? A controller varies the amount of juice going to the 6100?
(I don't mean to get off topic, but I don't get the whole controller thing. :redface:. Seems that they monitor parameters, but do all this other stuff too? Like a fancy powerbar, and more? All very confusing:confused:.)

Thanx much,

[Ruth]

Oh man now you are going to get me confused:scatter: There is a specific controller that you get for the Tunze streams - it just depends on if you want to only control one powerhead (single controller) or more than one (multi controller) They basically can be set to control the amount of juice (flow) that the powerhead has as well as have it turn off and on at preset times intervals.
These controller only control the Tunze powerheads and not all that other fancy smantzy stuff. Those controllers I know absolutely nothing about.
Here is a link to a 6100 with a single controller.
http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/details/pumps.php?product_ID=tz-ts6110k

[Dale]

For a totally different perspective.
I use a closed loop that attempts to deliver laminar flow to the entire length of my rock walls. I created the system for seahorses as they don't do well in the focused blast of powerheads. Bear in mind that it is a softie oriented reef and I don't keep SPS. The idea is an adaptation of the UGJ's used in big cichlid tanks.

I run 2 M.J. 1000's in line connected to about 16' of 1/2" PVC. This is laid out beneath the substrate along the front and back of my rock walls and drilled every inch with 1/8th holes. When I tested the system I had surface agitation across the entire surface of my tank (straight up from the bottom) and it has worked well so far. The "mini jets" are constantly kicking detritus up into the water column to be siphoned off by the horizontal overflow.
I don't run any power heads and the only other flow is moderate surface flow from my returnline.
I'll try to post a pic or two.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_0907.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_0948.jpg

and a year later (I am slowly siphoning the substrate out to create a B.B.)

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/fishherder/100_2200.jpg
________
Suzuki RV125 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Suzuki_RV125)

[Johnny Reefer]

...... They basically can be set to control the amount of juice (flow) that the powerhead has as well as have it turn off and on at preset times intervals. ..... Thanx for the reply. Inevitably, I’m still a tad unclear on how these work (or more accurately....what they do, in this case).

So, I took the term “Variable Speed Control” to mean that if this PH (6100) is plugged into the controller, and that controller is programmed, that the PH’s flow rate would fluctuate throughout the day (and night) independent of any further fiddling from the aquarist. Now I’m thinking this assumption is incorrect. Am I now correct to assume that the controller is not programmable, so to speak, and that if I were to want to change the rate of flow of the PH that I would have to adjust the controller each and every time?

Also, other than during feeding times....what is the advantage to having the PH turn off?

I’m wondering if I can justify the cost of a 6100 PH and a 7091 controller when that combo costs just as much as two 6080’s.

Thanx much,

[AndyL]

Calfo manifolds are among the best if you can fit them...

http://www.canreef.com/photopost/data/500/medium/FragtankTop.jpg
Normally one would use locline to get some nice random flow, but in my case, decided since I had 4 Hydor Flo's kicking around, they'd do just fine (they clip nicely into a 1/2" FPT fitting).

[Johnny Reefer]

So, I took the term “Variable Speed Control” to mean that if this PH (6100) is plugged into the controller, and that controller is programmed, that the PH’s flow rate would fluctuate throughout the day (and night) independent of any further fiddling from the aquarist. Now I’m thinking this assumption is incorrect. Am I now correct to assume that the controller is not programmable, so to speak, and that if I were to want to change the rate of flow of the PH that I would have to adjust the controller each and every time?

Also, other than during feeding times....what is the advantage to having the PH turn off?
Anyone?

Thanx,

[vanreefer]

Anyone?

Thanx,

maximum and minimum outputs are adjustable, as well as the time between Example
min-->max-->max-->min, or
min----->max----->min----->max... or anything in between.
This changing in output make more "wavelike" current