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OCDP
08-07-2006, 11:48 PM
Hmm, where to begin.. so dissappointing. I went away camping from Friday and got back today.. had a friend watch the tank. Unfortunately my lights got stuck on yesterday from 2pm to 5am or sometime after (could have been til noon) .. and I lost every piece of SPS, all LPS and almost lost my zoos.

So sad.. I have algae everywhere and the house just stinks like rotten garbage. I don't know where I am going from here.. I may sell my tank off or I may let things settle and go with an anemone/clown species only tank. There is just so much gunk everywhere... hair algae is starting to grow like mad..

My only question is... is the death of all the SPS and the LPS (just a frogspawn really) able to cloud my water? I have done an 8g water change (almost 50%) and it's still very cloudy.. not horrible, but not clear by any means.

I don't want to do anything more to the tank, I will let it sit and I have obviously removed all the dead corals and have a fan going in the room

So sad... heats a killer, and I know that SPS are not the right coral for me anymore. I know the LPS don't stand a chance in heat either, but SPS are just too finicky.

Having said that, my trust old red mille colony is still alive! Has some potential .. it will recover.

Anywhoo, just "venting" I couldn't imagine if I would have lost a bigger tank full of SPS.. I'd cry.

shotzee
08-08-2006, 12:01 AM
Damn man, that has to be one of the most disappointing that can happen. It is always so fustrating ever time you leave and come back to see your tank not in the exact condition you left it in. It would be terrible to come back and see it completely ruined.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do with the setup.

Ruth
08-08-2006, 12:10 AM
Scott I feel your pain. I lost all my SPS this summer due to heat and a skimmer break down. It is so disappointing and frustrating. Don't give up though - you'll get it back.
If it was me I would be doing some more water changes - can't hurt and will get that nasty smell out of there sooner. You may also want to rinse your live rock in some fresh water as well.
I tore down my 44g cube yesterday and put all my livestock in rubbermaid trash cans - today my favorite fish from that tank (niger trigger) was floating belly up.
I know that I can replace him but this fish had a great personality and I really liked him.
So sorry for you tank - but keep you chin up and rebuild. An anemone/clown zoo tank would look great as well.

Tangman
08-08-2006, 12:11 AM
So very sorry to here about the fate of your tank, I had the same thing happen to my old 120 gallon before I got a chiller.
So do you still think that a 20 gallon is too small for a chiller ?

revgeoff
08-08-2006, 03:39 AM
Sorry to hear/read about your tank.
I know what it feels like to have to start from scratch, it can be very demoralising. When my heater broke in two and fried all my fish, coral and inversts (except, as I found out two weeks later, my 6 line and lawnmower blenny) I decided to quit the hoby. Luckily my wife convinced me keep going.

Beverly
08-08-2006, 03:53 AM
Hang in there, Scott. I know you feel really lousy right now, but in a month or so, you'll be back in the saddle again. Now might be a good time to consider "cooking" your rock to get rid of the algae. Don't mean anything punny with that statement BTW, but "cooking" may give you a break from your tank and give your rock a renewed look.

Sorry to hear about your huge loss :cry:

Flusher
08-08-2006, 05:25 AM
Ouch. That's a lousy way to end a weekend... :sad:

My nano reef hasn't gone much higher than 84*F this summer (it usually stays under 82*F, thankfully), but my smaller mantis shrimp tank hits 86*F fairly frequently (no corals, just aipstasia in this tank). I haven't had any problems, though the mantis is far more active at cooler temperatures.

Do you know how hot your tank was? (I guess this question goes out to anyone who's lost livestock to heat issues.)

So do you still think that a 20 gallon is too small for a chiller ?

Do they make them small enough for 20 gallon tanks and under? I don't know much about chillers, except that they're expensive. :redface:

Kabong
08-08-2006, 06:43 AM
Theres the iceprobe
http://www.marinedepot.com/IMD/ch_iceprobe_1.jpg

Around $100, Should do a 20Gal.
Theres even a version you can get thats built right into a HOB filter.
http://www.marinedepot.com/IMD/ch_ia_microchiller.jpg

reeferaddict
08-08-2006, 10:27 AM
My condolences for your loss, it would be discouraging to anyone.

It seems that all of us in this hobby must go through our individual growing pains to arrive at a comfort zone. My 90 had developed into a soup a couple of years back, and I too was at the point where I just wanted to get rid of it and get out of the hobby. It was taking too much time and money, and it just seemed that I was killing everything I bought...

To the rescue came my girlfriend... she asked some very good questions that I was forced to answer, and let me know that it was allright to really attempt this with the right approach, both timewise and financially. Though she has virtually nothing to do with the tank, her acceptance when I come home with thousands of dollars worth of gear DOES allow me to pursue this in a free manner, because no matter what you WILL pay... especially if keeping delicate species like SPS is in your sights. I thank her for her encouragement, and I take pride in my attempts to make all of this work.

With this hobby, failures create challenges, and sometimes the simplest successes give us the most incredible feeling of accomplishment. Don't give up, we have all been humbled. Those that say they haven't are liars. Our best hope is to learn as much as we can from the failures we encounter, our own or others - thank you for sharing with us and I wish you the best of luck down the road.

OCDP
08-08-2006, 03:49 PM
Wow, thanks for all the kind words everyone. Really appreciate it.

Just a small update, but the tank is still quite cloudy and still has quite a stink to it. Is it all the dead tissues that is causing this foul smell? (i have removed all the dead corals) . I did 8g water change yesterday and things were looking alright. I think I'll do another 8g or so tonight . I am skimming heavy as well at the moment.

Ruth - So sorry to hear about all the recent troubles (and losses) Hope everything is back to normal soon. I think I will definitely do more water changes this evening. I also think I'll stick around for a while, I just need the stench and cloudiness gone and I am back in business. The rest is all algae which can be beaten.

revgeoff - Glad your sticking around in the hobby! Sorry to hear about the heater troubles... such a crappy way for a tank to die off, basically melting like mine was and boiling the fish. :(

Bev - Your right.. in a month I'll be back at it, it's just overwhelming (or was overwhelming) when I came home to that... now I know I just need to get the stench and cloudiness gone and it shouldn't be too , too bad. I think adding some snails (seeing how I lost 90% of mine) will help my case. Cooking the rock is an option as well.

Flusher - I couldn't tell ya how hot the tank got... definitely above 86 though. The tank was warm, even after being cooled.

Kabong - I've never seen anything like that before, that's neat... any links with info on those guys??

reeferaddict - Thanks a bunch for the post.. and I agree that everyone must go through something like this to get to a certain comfort zone. I still don't quite know what I am doing with the tank next, but I'll figure it out soon enough.

I am hoping a few more good water changes and things should stabalize. I'll keep the thread updated as well.

Thanks again everyone.

christyf5
08-08-2006, 05:09 PM
If I were you I'd do water change after water change, you need to get all that gunk out of the water before the tank can return to "normal". You don't want any of it settling out and rotting on the sandbed, possibly suffocating it. I'd do at least 4-5 water changes (or more) and then leave the tank just to recouperate for a couple weeks before you make any major additions. Chances are not only the corals croaked in that tank, some of the sandbed probably died due to less oxygen in the water from the die off/increased temperature. Oh and run some carbon if you have it handy.:biggrin:

OCDP
08-08-2006, 05:15 PM
If I were you I'd do water change after water change, you need to get all that gunk out of the water before the tank can return to "normal". You don't want any of it settling out and rotting on the sandbed, possibly suffocating it. I'd do at least 4-5 water changes (or more) and then leave the tank just to recouperate for a couple weeks before you make any major additions. Chances are not only the corals croaked in that tank, some of the sandbed probably died due to less oxygen in the water from the die off/increased temperature. Oh and run some carbon if you have it handy.:biggrin:

Yeah.. as I said I am going to do more water changes once I'm home from work. I only had time for 2 yesterday, I just got back from camping and had a lot of things to get done last night. Is it just me , and it probably is but doesn't it seem wrong to change out 2g, replace it, then take another 2g out and replace it? Wouldn't the "correct" way of doing this be to just change out the whole amount (whatever that may be, probably another 8g in my case) and replace it all? Seems like this would be more effective?

I have nothing in there that it can further harm really (coral wise) . I don't have any carbon unfortunately.. I'll turn on my AC500 and stick the foam insert in for a bit though . I'll try to get some carbon today .

I also will turkey baste all the rocks and sand... hell, I may even remove my sand bed ... it's just full of crap and it's not doing my tank any good these days.

muck
08-08-2006, 05:19 PM
I like Bev's idea about cooking your rock now while you have the chance.
Might as well get rid of the nuisance algae and start fresh. :wink:

Delphinus
08-08-2006, 05:25 PM
What a bummer..

OCDP
08-08-2006, 05:25 PM
I like Bev's idea about cooking your rock now while you have the chance.
Might as well get rid of the nuisance algae and start fresh. :wink:

Hmm.. how long does rock cooking take? I read a few articles about it a few months back but can't really remember all that much.

I could do that, but then my fish have no rocks. Also, I have a few remaining zoanthid colonies alive.

christyf5
08-08-2006, 05:28 PM
Yeah.. as I said I am going to do more water changes once I'm home from work. I only had time for 2 yesterday, I just got back from camping and had a lot of things to get done last night. Is it just me , and it probably is but doesn't it seem wrong to change out 2g, replace it, then take another 2g out and replace it? Wouldn't the "correct" way of doing this be to just change out the whole amount (whatever that may be, probably another 8g in my case) and replace it all? Seems like this would be more effective?

I have nothing in there that it can further harm really (coral wise) . I don't have any carbon unfortunately.. I'll turn on my AC500 and stick the foam insert in for a bit though . I'll try to get some carbon today .

I also will turkey baste all the rocks and sand... hell, I may even remove my sand bed ... it's just full of crap and it's not doing my tank any good these days.

Yeah, doing 2 gallon water changes won't really get you far. Imagine having pitcher full of koolaid, take out a glassful and add a glassful of water, its still got tons of koolaid in it right (and tastes like it too :razz:)? Larger water changes are really warranted here. As well you have some (albeit small) mixing of water that is infused into your rock and sandbed, so you'd want to still maintain the larger water changes to get that out as well.

I don't really know what the foam insert will do for your tank unless there are large particulates you need to get out of the water, besides it will just trap gunk which will break down even further causing more problems for your tank. Definitely try to get some carbon in there to help break down and remove some of the water impurities.

I agree with Bev and Muck, definitely a good time to be cooking that rock. You don't want that crap leaching out later causing you all sort of problems down the line.

OCDP
08-08-2006, 05:38 PM
Yeah, doing 2 gallon water changes won't really get you far. Imagine having pitcher full of koolaid, take out a glassful and add a glassful of water, its still got tons of koolaid in it right (and tastes like it too :razz:)? Larger water changes are really warranted here. As well you have some (albeit small) mixing of water that is infused into your rock and sandbed, so you'd want to still maintain the larger water changes to get that out as well.

I don't really know what the foam insert will do for your tank unless there are large particulates you need to get out of the water, besides it will just trap gunk which will break down even further causing more problems for your tank. Definitely try to get some carbon in there to help break down and remove some of the water impurities.

I agree with Bev and Muck, definitely a good time to be cooking that rock. You don't want that crap leaching out later causing you all sort of problems down the line.

I am doing 8g water changes, not 2g . I do 4g at a time (I only have 2 - 2g buckets) Just so that's cleared up :)

I fully understand that I need to be doing larger water changes right now, as I am.. 8g at a time is a decent amount on a 20g . I plan on doing at least 10g tonight.

I guess the foam insert would be used when I baste my rocks and sand, all the gunk comes up and is collected in the foam. I never run the foam for more than a day. Then it's rinsed and stored away. I know they collect crap easily. Carbon would help me out quite a bit right now so I'll definitely try to get some. '

So again, how is rock cooking done and exactly how long does it take? I still have fish alive, and a few good corals alive as well.. so I dunno what I'd do about them, or the fish anyhow.

christyf5
08-08-2006, 05:43 PM
Yeah I knew you were doing the 8g water changes, I was just agreeing with you that a 2G would be a waste of time unless it were a really small tank.

So rock cooking is easy and doesn't involve any actual "cooking"
.
Basically you'd remove the rock from the tank, scrub it and rinse it in saltwater, then place it in a rubbermaid container with new saltwater, a heater and a powerhead and put the lid on. Then every once in awhile (say weekly/biweekly) siphon out all the crud from the bottom and whatever has settled on the rock. Swish the rocks around in the water (and scrub if needed), remove the rocks, dump out the water and add new saltwater with the rocks. This continues on for a few months. I only cooked mine for about a few weeks but man I couldn't believe the amount of crap that came off my rock.

OCDP
08-08-2006, 05:54 PM
Yeah I knew you were doing the 8g water changes, I was just agreeing with you that a 2G would be a waste of time unless it were a really small tank.

So rock cooking is easy and doesn't involve any actual "cooking"
.
Basically you'd remove the rock from the tank, scrub it and rinse it in saltwater, then place it in a rubbermaid container with new saltwater, a heater and a powerhead and put the lid on. Then every once in awhile (say weekly/biweekly) siphon out all the crud from the bottom and whatever has settled on the rock. Swish the rocks around in the water (and scrub if needed), remove the rocks, dump out the water and add new saltwater with the rocks. This continues on for a few months. I only cooked mine for about a few weeks but man I couldn't believe the amount of crap that came off my rock.

Ahh okay gotcha.

I guess the rock cooking idea doesn't sound too bad.. does the algae slowly start to diminsh on it's own after a couple weeks? Seems easy and simple enough... but a few months is a little too long for my liking. Can it be done successfully for a shorter period of time?? I don't have that much rock, would that make a difference?

Ahh.. at the same time, getting new rock sounds just as easy :razz: But I can't really afford that.. I will cook the rock if the algae is definitely going to go away. Otherwise, I mine as well save future headaches and try new rock or something.

What do you use to scrub your rocks with ??

christyf5
08-08-2006, 06:00 PM
Basically you're letting the algae run out of nutrients as well as giving them no light to thrive. Its mostly the no light thing that gets rid of it, I found putting a handful of hermits in there as well got the job done as they had nothing else to eat but the algae.

Yeah it is a pain in the arse doing it for more than couple of months, I found that it depends on how much algae you have and the type of algae, browns seem to die off more quickly than say, green hair algae. For GHA it took a minimum of 6-8 weeks (this was on another batch of rock I "cooked" mostly I just didn't want to use it and was going to take it back to the store but never got around to it. It lived in a rubbermaid tote for about 8 months). At the time I cooked my rock I really really hated my tank and never spent more than a few minutes topping up the FW and feeding the fish. So really not looking so critically at the tank helped in my case :wink:

It certainly can't hurt just doing it short term although you won't see the full benefits. If nothing else it will at least leach out any gack into a different water source other than your tank. I doubt the algae will diminish much though, it can live for quite awhile without any light before it finally kicks off.

OCDP
08-08-2006, 06:13 PM
Basically you're letting the algae run out of nutrients as well as giving them no light to thrive. Its mostly the no light thing that gets rid of it, I found putting a handful of hermits in there as well got the job done as they had nothing else to eat but the algae.

Yeah it is a pain in the arse doing it for more than couple of months, I found that it depends on how much algae you have and the type of algae, browns seem to die off more quickly than say, green hair algae. For GHA it took a minimum of 6-8 weeks (this was on another batch of rock I "cooked" mostly I just didn't want to use it and was going to take it back to the store but never got around to it. It lived in a rubbermaid tote for about 8 months). At the time I cooked my rock I really really hated my tank and never spent more than a few minutes topping up the FW and feeding the fish. So really not looking so critically at the tank helped in my case :wink:

It certainly can't hurt just doing it short term although you won't see the full benefits. If nothing else it will at least leach out any gack into a different water source other than your tank. I doubt the algae will diminish much though, it can live for quite awhile without any light before it finally kicks off.

Well that all makes sense. I don't have a full blown algae outbreak though, but there's a bit of hair algae that's driving me mad. I was just going to add some snails to take care of it... and perhaps a sea hare. It doesn't even cover all my rocks, just a few of them and there's only a few patches per rock, so I am debating as to whether or not it's worth cooking, or just giving the rocks to someone for super cheap or for free, and just replacing them myself.

I think they do need a good rinse after all this though, so I'll take some of the smaller pieces and rinse them out tonight.

I guess I need to decide if I want to shut the tank down for a couple months (seeing as I do have fish and a few corals alive), and cook the rock.. or if I suck it up, rinse and scrub the rocks, get rid of the worst pieces , get some snails and a sea hare, and start over that way.

I was about to upgrade my tank as well, so if I were to do that.. I could remove my sand bed which would get rid of quite a bit of nutrients, rinse and scrub my rock, and so on...

I dunno what to do ??? Upgrading and scrubbing/rinsing the rocks and removing the bad pieces and replacing them sounds best.. and with the addition of some snails and a sea hare, things might clear up pretty well.

Whatever I decide on I want to act as fast as possible. Upgrading would give me the motivation to clean the rocks up and get a couple new pieces, remove the bad ones.. I'll also be able to get rid of that damn sandbed.

Jaws
08-08-2006, 06:17 PM
Sorry to hear about that Scott. This happens to be one of my biggest beefs. I've listened to peoples experiences and it absolutely floors me when I hear about someone loosing all their livestock because of an equipment malfunction. When I started this hobby I decided that I would spend the money and buy the best stuff recommended for the tank size I have. You would think that when you spend that kind of money that the things you buy should stand up but that's hardly the case. I've had a problem with almost every piece of my equipment. In my opinion, when you spend $1000 on something, you shouldn't have to worry about it failing in the first six months. When it's something like a chiller or a heater too, either of these can have catastrophic consequences on your tank. Eventhough it's just a timer that malfunctioned it ended up costing you a fortune and is just another example of bad equipment. I think I'm going to start a thread on this and hear other people's experiences too. Good luck with your tank. I have no doubts you'll be able to turn everything around.

christyf5
08-08-2006, 06:33 PM
Well that all makes sense. I don't have a full blown algae outbreak though, but there's a bit of hair algae that's driving me mad. I was just going to add some snails to take care of it... and perhaps a sea hare. It doesn't even cover all my rocks, just a few of them and there's only a few patches per rock, so I am debating as to whether or not it's worth cooking, or just giving the rocks to someone for super cheap or for free, and just replacing them myself.

I think they do need a good rinse after all this though, so I'll take some of the smaller pieces and rinse them out tonight.

I guess I need to decide if I want to shut the tank down for a couple months (seeing as I do have fish and a few corals alive), and cook the rock.. or if I suck it up, rinse and scrub the rocks, get rid of the worst pieces , get some snails and a sea hare, and start over that way.

I was about to upgrade my tank as well, so if I were to do that.. I could remove my sand bed which would get rid of quite a bit of nutrients, rinse and scrub my rock, and so on...

I dunno what to do ??? Upgrading and scrubbing/rinsing the rocks and removing the bad pieces and replacing them sounds best.. and with the addition of some snails and a sea hare, things might clear up pretty well.

Whatever I decide on I want to act as fast as possible. Upgrading would give me the motivation to clean the rocks up and get a couple new pieces, remove the bad ones.. I'll also be able to get rid of that damn sandbed.

Ultimately its up to you about what you want to do, but personally, I would get the rock out of the tank, scrubbed (I use a toothbrush or a "dish" brush, something with fairly stiff bristles) and cooking while you decide. Do your larger water changes and then take a step back and decide where you want to go with this tank. Putting some snails or hermits in with the rock while it cooks might speed up the process as they'll eat what they get and in this case its only the algae on the rock :biggrin:

OCDP
08-08-2006, 06:36 PM
Ultimately its up to you about what you want to do, but personally, I would get the rock out of the tank, scrubbed (I use a toothbrush or a "dish" brush, something with fairly stiff bristles) and cooking while you decide. Do your larger water changes and then take a step back and decide where you want to go with this tank. Putting some snails or hermits in with the rock while it cooks might speed up the process as they'll eat what they get and in this case its only the algae on the rock :biggrin:

Yeah, good call.. thanks Christy.. I'll let you all know what happens with the tank. My friend that babysat the tank said he would help me out with replacing stuff, so maybe he'll just help replace the rock, that would be a huge help and would save a lot of hassle. Then I can move on with my upgrade and be DONE with all this... and decide what I want to do with the tank. I think a clown/anemone/zoo tank sounds sweet, with a couple nice sps peices.. but that's baout it.

Anywhoo, I'll update later. Thanks again all :)

christyf5
08-08-2006, 06:38 PM
Yeah, good call.. thanks Christy.. I'll let you all know what happens with the tank. My friend that babysat the tank said he would help me out with replacing stuff, so maybe he'll just help replace the rock, that would be a huge help and would save a lot of hassle. Then I can move on with my upgrade and be DONE with all this... and decide what I want to do with the tank. I think a clown/anemone/zoo tank sounds sweet, with a couple nice sps peices.. but that's baout it.

Anywhoo, I'll update later. Thanks again all :)

Perhaps fit a better timer and chiller into your budget :wink:

OCDP
08-08-2006, 06:42 PM
Perhaps fit a better timer and chiller into your budget :wink:

No no, my timer is fine. It was my friend that made the mistake!

My timer was set to come on at 5am - 2pm (to avoid too much heat during midday) He came AFTER 2pm (lights off) and I told him how to turn the lights on to feed the fish, and told him to turn them off afterward. Somehow, someway, he forgot to turn the lights off. I don't quite know how they were stuck on for as long as they were, but they were. So, had he would have turned the lights off, I would have been fine.

The sad thing is, I probably didnt even need him to come over on Sunday , I was only gone 3 days.

He felt pretty horrible, as did I, but oh well, what's done is done I guess. He did say he owuld help replace stuff, so I may take him up on that offer.. I never realized how much more problems this would cause unfortunately.

The chiller, yes.. I'll have to consider one of those guys now. :rolleyes:

Kabong
08-08-2006, 07:33 PM
Heres some links for the mini chiller's.
I havent seen them on any canadian sites,
But I've seen a few guys with them so I presume there is a source.
For the Ice-Probe
http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_chillers_coolworks_iceprobe.asp?CartId=
For the Micro-Chiller
http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_chillers_coolworks_microchiller.asp?CartI d=

OCDP
08-08-2006, 08:47 PM
Heres some links for the mini chiller's.
I havent seen them on any canadian sites,
But I've seen a few guys with them so I presume there is a source.
For the Ice-Probe
http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_chillers_coolworks_iceprobe.asp?CartId=
For the Micro-Chiller
http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_chillers_coolworks_microchiller.asp?CartI d=

Man those things are cool, thanks for posting Tim. I am going to look into these for next summer . I never even knew these existed... guess I should do a little more research huh :neutral:

OCDP
08-08-2006, 08:49 PM
Oh yeah, a little update: I just spoke with my friend and, being the good friend he is.. he has agreed to help pay for some new live rock. I will then use the old rock and cook it, then it can be re-used in my new setup.

I think it's a pretty nice deal... I get to rid my tank of the worst pieces of LR and replace them with new ones... I think when I replace them, I am going to vacuum out the sandbed. No more sand for me... too much of a pain these days.

reeferaddict
08-08-2006, 08:50 PM
Hey Scott - just one final word. I just had someone look after my tank for the first time a couple of weeks back, a local LFS owner who knows his stuff. He did a great job, (only had to stop by once to fill the Auto Top Off in a week), but I had told myself before I left that even if I came home to a fresh seafood broth that I couldn't hold him responsible.

While your friend has made you an honourable gesture by offering to replace the rock, I'm sure it was an honest mistake and he was as horrified as you were - otherwise I doubt he would have made the offer. IMHO I would let it go, and in fact he would be the best candidate to watch it if you left again - he certainly would be a lot more wary of problems that may arise. Like I said in my earlier post - everyone can learn from this, but that's just my opinion....

OCDP
08-08-2006, 09:04 PM
Hey Scott - just one final word. I just had someone look after my tank for the first time a couple of weeks back, a local LFS owner who knows his stuff. He did a great job, (only had to stop by once to fill the Auto Top Off in a week), but I had told myself before I left that even if I came home to a fresh seafood broth that I couldn't hold him responsible.

While your friend has made you an honourable gesture by offering to replace the rock, I'm sure it was an honest mistake and he was as horrified as you were - otherwise I doubt he would have made the offer. IMHO I would let it go, and in fact he would be the best candidate to watch it if you left again - he certainly would be a lot more wary of problems that may arise. Like I said in my earlier post - everyone can learn from this, but that's just my opinion....

Yeah, see.. I know he was scared shitless, I would be too. I was very calm about the entire thing, didn't really bother me a whole lot that I lost the corals, more so the following problems and work it creates (he thanked me very much for being so calm and understanding with him about the whole thing). Anyhow, he said he'd replace everything (I would have said the same as well) I told him not to worry about anything, everything was fine. He insisted on replacing things or helping me pay for things. (he just setup his own first ever SW tank) anywhoo, I told him no it's okay... I don't need you to replace anything, we're cool. It didn't seem to matter, he just said okay on Tuesday we'll go to the LFS and I'll get you anything you may need...once again I said it's fine, but he said we'll go... anywhoo....

This morning I was trying to think of how to make this work for him and not only myself (because he just setup his first tank) I told him he can take some of my rock, some bad pieces, some good... and he can have those, and if he'd like to buy me a couple new bigger pieces, then I'd be okay with that ( so at least he gets something out of this deal, and isnt buying a bunch of stuff for me.. I figured I would try to help him out here as well) He still insists he buys me some rock when he goes to the LFS.

It's kind of one of those situations where you have to just go ok ok fine :lol: . Don't worry, it's been in my head the entire time, I can't take stuff from him as I know it was a complete honest mistake. I would feel like a douche bag taking stuff from him. He insists though... just one of those guys in one of those situations I guess? If I do end up getting rock, I will be making sure he doesn't break the bank .. there's no need for any of this, he's just being very polite I guess.

I'm in a pickle!

reeferaddict
08-08-2006, 09:21 PM
Ya I know where you're at Scott... I would have been the same way as your friend. If it makes him feel better even though you have declined then that's a different story... good luck!

OCDP
08-08-2006, 09:25 PM
Ya I know where you're at Scott... I would have been the same way as your friend. If it makes him feel better even though you have declined then that's a different story... good luck!

Yeah, oh I've declined... once, twice, three times, four , five... hahaha... Ahh well, I'll keep the thread updated.

midgetwaiter
08-08-2006, 10:23 PM
One thing to think about when you are setting your tank back up.

If you are in a situation where a simple failure like leaving your lights on overnight will kill off the tank then IMO your system is broken. There will always be something that can go wrong but little things like someone making a really simple mistake should not put the whole system at risk.

To address this specific problem, a temperature controller costing less than $100 could have saved you. I know hindsight is 20/20 etc but this is how you learn things like this. Any time you are building a system you have to consider possible failures and have a plan for them.

OCDP
08-09-2006, 01:37 AM
One thing to think about when you are setting your tank back up.

If you are in a situation where a simple failure like leaving your lights on overnight will kill off the tank then IMO your system is broken. There will always be something that can go wrong but little things like someone making a really simple mistake should not put the whole system at risk.

To address this specific problem, a temperature controller costing less than $100 could have saved you. I know hindsight is 20/20 etc but this is how you learn things like this. Any time you are building a system you have to consider possible failures and have a plan for them.

You are right.. no denying that, such a small mistake cost me too much time and money.

Another update: I just did another big water change, and things are clearing up nicely, and the smell is going away slowly. Things are looking up . The fish look fine, and even better since the water change. My buddy and I are off to the LFS tonight for some more rock, I have the old SW I am going to put the old rocks in, I will decide what to do with them when the time comes (most likely cook them)

I am going to most likely get rid of my sandbed and vaccum it all out, I am also going to buy some carbon for my AC500, and a couple new chunks of live rock. Things are slowly looking up...

Beverly
08-09-2006, 01:45 AM
Scott,

How deep is your sandbed? If it's deep enough to have an anaerobic layer, I would remove the fish from the tank and have water on hand for a large water change before removing it.

OCDP
08-09-2006, 04:53 AM
Well, did another water change and I bought some carbon, and a vacuum. Cleaned the sand fairly well, too hard to siphon in such a small tank. But, got 90% of my sand clean... all I can say is WOW :eek: disgusting.. I had 3 pails full of dark brown water. Glad it's gone.

Now I just need to work on getting the rocks clean.

Flusher
08-09-2006, 05:11 AM
I've never cooked rock, but I think this might work:

If you were to find a temporary new home for your surviving corals and maybe your fish, couldn't you just keep the tank more or less intact and cook the rock right where it is? Leave everything running (heater, skimmer, powerheads) except for the lights. That might be the easiest way to do it. Maybe throw in more cleaners (crabs, sea hare), too?

Just a thought. You might even be able to keep the fish in there; I don't think they need much light (probably not enough light to grow algae, anyway). You'd basically have a dimly-lit FOWLR tank for awhile.

GrimReefer
08-09-2006, 05:19 AM
sorry to hear about your losses. i don't know how i would feel if i lost my whole tank. threads like these really discourage me from SPS and metal halides...

reeferaddict
08-09-2006, 05:44 AM
sorry to hear about your losses. i don't know how i would feel if i lost my whole tank. threads like these really discourage me from SPS and metal halides...

Don't let it scare you off... just pay close attention and plan accordingly if you DO decide to try SPS...

Matt
08-09-2006, 06:26 AM
IMHO I would let it go, and in fact he would be the best candidate to watch it if you left again - he certainly would be a lot more wary of problems that may arise. Like I said in my earlier post - everyone can learn from this, but that's just my opinion....OT, reminds me of a business "case study" once related to me. Abbreviated, it goes: young line manager at Ford; accidentally sets the line using yesterday's shift orders; overproduces the wrong things for a full shift, and none of the needed-for-today stuff; line stops, millions lost. Manager tries to resign; Director refuses, saying: "I just spent 3M training you."

In other words, NOTHING teaches like experience.

On topic, Scott, you have my sympathy to go with all the others... I crashed my tank a while ago, and also lost a lot of my corals. Soldier on... Keeping a slice of a tropical reef in the middle of the bald prairie is not for the faint-of-heart, but we few (the bold, foolish ones...) we get to watch something special in our living rooms.

OCDP
08-09-2006, 03:46 PM
Yeah that might work Flusher, but I also may just go with new rock, a fresh start that way. I may not replace all the rock, but a few big pieces at least.

Genix, definitely don't let these stories hold you back from going with SPS and halides... it's worth it. And like reeferaddict said, plan around it.. I could have done things to prevent this... even if I would have had a fan to keep the room cooler.. things may not have been so bad. So plan things carefully I guess and everything should work out ..

GrimReefer
08-09-2006, 10:15 PM
Genix, definitely don't let these stories hold you back from going with SPS and halides... it's worth it.
is it really, though? i like the way soft corals sway in the current and i'm pretty satisfied with them. i like the colors and shapes of some SPS but the added expense and risk hardly seems worth it. it's too demoralizing to lose livestock for me to attempt SPS just for the challenge.

reeferaddict
08-09-2006, 11:45 PM
It IS worth it IMO... and it seems to be a part of the addiction too... :mrgreen:

I am keeping a "mixed reef"... probably more challenging than any other style out there, especially given my fish load... when you get results, I can't describe the satisfaction, and you can't beat the colours and shapes of SPS... I still keep a couple of soft corals too... I like the waving and such, but even at that I've been able to get that effect from LPS corals.

I'm not saying SPS is for everyone, just not to be daunted by stories like this, it can happen to a softie tank too...

OCDP
08-10-2006, 03:26 PM
is it really, though? i like the way soft corals sway in the current and i'm pretty satisfied with them. i like the colors and shapes of some SPS but the added expense and risk hardly seems worth it. it's too demoralizing to lose livestock for me to attempt SPS just for the challenge.

Who is to say you will lose all your livestock though? Even so, as reeferaddict stated, if you had a tank full of LPS or softies, and tank temps get out of control, too much light, etc... you'll still lose all your corals. So really, with all proper planning for unexpected heat and anything else you can easily avoid this from happening. If I would have had a temp controller or even a fan blowing at the water surface, things may not have been so bad. Anyways, moral of the story is, it can happen to any tank, no matter what corals your keeping, anyone can suffer a tank "crash" perse... just plan around it. I need to start adding things to my tank like temp controllers and fans, especially for summer, well... only for summer really.

Another update:

I did yet another water change, the tank is clear and stench free. I vacuumed that sand on Tuesday and it worked like a charm. One more vacuum and the sand should be really clean.

I took all my rocks out yesterday after work and rinsed them thoroughly and gave them all a quick scrub. I also rinsed them in FW for a bit as suggested. They look a bit better, I just have tons of detritus sticking to the tank walls and rocks, and it makes my entire tank look like ass. I have been basting it off and using the AC500 with the foam insert to help get rid of some of the large particles.

I also bought a digital thermometer (was using a stick-on previously) I have to admit, they both work well... the stick on is pretty accurate, as well as the digital obviously.

Another thing I forgot to tell you all, was that my Royal Gramma I purchased that I thought jumped never jumped. I must have found (and I am ashamed to admit this) a really old dried up fish of some sort under my sstand. You have to udnerstand though that my tank stand has barely any clearance on the bottom to look under, so I had nooo clue about this (the only reason I looked there is because my female clown made her way under there when she jumped) I got home Monday and he was unfortunately gasping for breath. I have NO idea where this little bugger was hiding, but he did a good job of it. The heat and tank crash must have pushed him over the edge and he never made it :( I just thought it was bizarre, I got home and seen this bright purple and yellow... "Hey! He's ALIVE!!" ... sadly he was stuck on a Seio intake :(. RIP little buddy.

After a few days of working on the tank, I must say I am more pleased with the empty look, although I do miss some of my fav. SPS pieces ... but the tank looks much more "open" . I'll snap some pics... I think my tank would be perfect for a host anemone ... right dead center in the tank where my clam is. I am able to get a free purple H. Crispa from a friend, and I will put him in sometime next week or next weekend. Things seem to be stable now and I have changed out at LEAST 25g of water since Monday. Carbon is being used and I am skimming heavy, cleaning the cup daily.

christyf5
08-10-2006, 06:13 PM
Man this thread is like a car crash, you know you shouldn't look but you can't help it :rolleyes:

Delphinus
08-10-2006, 06:17 PM
Anyone seen any good movies lately?

Joe Reefer
08-10-2006, 06:38 PM
Anyone seen any good movies lately?

Pirates was good.:mrgreen:

SeaHorse_Fanatic
08-10-2006, 06:43 PM
OCDP,

Are you sure a hard-to-keep anemone is the best thing to put into the tank at this time?

OCDP
08-10-2006, 07:03 PM
Alright, well that's it for this thread.

I think I just won't even bother updating anything with my tank anymore... people just seem to have a bad view on me it seems. As if I haven't been keeping an eye on paramaters, you think I would honestly add one in if everything is all out of wack??

Thanks for the posts, maybe I read them wrong, but I found them pretty rude. I'm not sure what to make of them? I haven't done anything wrong here.

At this point I won't bother posting any updates on my tank.

I would never add the anemone with tank paramaters being out of line. As of now, I have no detectable ammonia, nitrite and nitrates appear to be lowered a bit since vacuuming my sand and cleaning my rocks.

Sorry if I have wasted all of your time, but you chose to read the thread. Thanks to those who have offered me help and given me advice, I appreaciate it.

christyf5
08-10-2006, 07:17 PM
You know Scott, seriously, we are all trying to help but it seems so futile. Its like you're not really listening. Perhaps if we're a bit more blunt we'll get our point across??

Your tank JUST CRASHED!!!!!!! That means you're pretty much starting all over again. Doing a few 8 gallon water changes does not a fixed tank make!

Yes you've changed out 25 gallons but really, you've only diluted the problem. Your tanks ecosystem has had a major event and all you've done is masked the problem with a few water changes, a sandbed siphon and now you want to put an anemone in there??

You know that ammonia/nitrite/nitrate aren't the only tank parameters that cause problems. Who knows what was released into the water when your tank crashed. For all you know you could still have toxins from the corals or something in there.

I think part of the problem with your posts is that you come here looking for help, people offer it and then you just go along and do your own thing anyway. Why bother to look for help if you don't feel like listening to it. People are taking time out of their day to respond to your posts and then you just carry on as usual. If you're looking for a group hug, perhaps you should go to ReefCentral.

People have told you repeatedly to let the tank settle before you start adding any livestock and then you tell us that you are thinking about adding an anemone! Cripes, people wait months, almost a year before adding something like that.

Perhaps you should work on your respect for livestock. You don't seem to have much happening in that department.

OCDP
08-10-2006, 08:22 PM
I am not goign to even bother to start arguing. I will simply say this... when I started this thread I wasn't looking for help at all. I was "venting" , I was overwhelmed. "Tank Crash" May have not been the best term to use... I only lost my corals, everything else in the tank is still fine. I didnt' lose "all" my corals either, I still have all my zoanthids left. Basically the SPS and LPS didn't make it.

You gave me advice and suggestions, and, I think I have done just about every single thing recommended other than adding a chiller and cooking my rock. I have been working hard on getting the tank, rock and the sand clean.

I guess I figured that if the water paramaters are good, everything is looking good and testing good and things are stabalizing, then I should be good. Sorry if I don't know what else to be testing for other than the usual. This is what I am used to and this is how I have been doing it since day 1.

You told me to do large water changes, I did... 8-10g every day since Monday evening. I cleaned the rocks, I cleaned the sand.. removing all the gunk from my tank and cleaning the equipment. I followed all of your suggestions other than rock cooking.

My tank hasn't gone back to square one... I have just lost most of my corals.

Anyways, I am sorry I come across as a person who has no care for livestock.. sheesh, I wonder how I managed to keep , grow and have SPS thrive in my 20g all this time, as well as a crocea clam (which is still alive).

I am a bit confused as to why you say I come here looking for help , and do my own thing. I started this thread to vent like most people do when stuff like this happens, I asked one question in regards to water clarity. Do my own thing?? I am doing everything you told me to do and have been watching my water paramaters daily. I had intentions of receiving the H. Crispa when I got back, because it's in a fellow reefers tank and she cannot meet the requirements for him. I told her I would take him, and she was cool with that.

I am sorry. I figured that if paramaters are in check and are STABLE then things are fine (it's my understanding that stability is the key here)... I don't understand how I could still have toxins (if I did, there can't be much...) from corals as I have new, fresh water, cleaned rocks , sand, equipment. I am not saying it's not a possibility.. I just don't understand how that works, sorry. I didn't think that my tank would need to sit for long if everything went back to "normal"

When you say let the tank settle, I wasn't given a time frame, and maybe I should know this.. but I don't ! Again, I figured if tank paramaters are good, and stable... then why must it sit? What is this going to do? My tank is established.. it's not new... I did wait before adding any of my first anemones. Would I ever add in an anemone to a tank where it will not survive? No. I wouldn't add it if I didn't know I had a damn good chance of it's survival.

Maybe I will take my posts to Reef Central from now on. I feel I am just annoying you all (yet you still keep posting.. ?) And I feel I am being viewed as a bad reef keeper... this is not the case.

Again, my apologies to everyone, maybe my ways of reef keeping (whether they be "right" or "wrong") just aren't nearly the same as yours.

All's I can say is I do care and have plenty of respect for my livestock, yes I have made a few foolish purchases (but who hasn't) I do my best to keep everything happy and thriving (and I feel I have done a great job thus far)

Take care. And again, my apologies if I have wasted all of your time. But if I may make a suggestion, if I make posts that you shake your head at for whatever reasons, please.. don't reply or post rude comments. Save yourself time and save me the time.... and please don't take this offensively, just a simple way to keep me out of your hair is all.
Scott

Matt
08-10-2006, 10:51 PM
lock it up, mods.