MH bulbs

[howdy20012002]

I have a question...
For MH bulbs, do u wait to change them once they burn out?
Or do they lose their wattage as they get older like PC?
If yes, how often should u change them...my 90 came with the used MH bulbs and I am not sure how old they are.
As well, is there really that much of a difference in the different brands of bulbs?
Thanks for the info
Neal

[fortheloveofcrabs]

Hey,

MH bulbs can burn for many, many, many, many years... Well, maby not that long, but for a good while any-hoo. You should change them "every 12 - 18 months" because their spectrum starts to shift down. IE they become more yellow. As far as brand goes, yes there does seem to be a difference in my experience. I've used Hamilton, Sun Aquatics, XM and Radium. From what I've seen, you pay for what you get. The Radiums held their color for longer, and burnt brighter. Sun Aquatics bulbs are great - for a sump. Hamilton and XM seem to be a good middle of the road bulb - XM (I feel anyway) is the better of the two brands though. Keep in mind though, you need a pulse ballast to run Radiums.

Hope this helps!

*This is all just my opinion - so please don't pick on me!

[Quinster]

Sun Aquatics bulbs are great - for a sump

Tell that to the SPS Clams Anemones LPS and all the other contents in my 2 tanks...LOL

[OCDP]

Different results for different people sometimes..

What are we talking about here? Mogul based? Or Double Ended (HQI) Metal Halide bulbs?

[Delphinus]

The rule of thumb for changing them out at regular intervals doesn't really matter if it's SE or DE. In general though I've found that the higher the kelvin the sooner the shift.

As for the question of whether brand matters... I'm afraid that's really a question you need to answer for yourself with some experimentation over time. In general though, you get what you pay for. Having said that, there are a number of new bulbs on the market these days that are "economical" in comparisons to others and they seem to be just fine.

The one thing that I recommend though is trying to match bulbs to ballasts. This can help narrow down the choices when trying to decide what to try next. I.e., a manufacturer may put in their specs that a lamp should be run on a pulse-start or a probe-start ballast. Not that vice-versa can't work but sometimes you get sub-optimal results. I.e., if you try to fire an Ushio on a probe start ballast it may take up to 30 minutes after powering on for that lamp to actually light and stay lit. (After a while it gets better.. I ran Ushio's on probe starts for many years but if I could go back and do it again I'd have bought pulse-start ballasts... I bought the ballasts before understanding any of this kind of stuff.) Now that Iwasaki has a 175W 14000K lamp I'll probably never use an Ushio on my one remaining probe start 175W ballast -- I sold off the others. Great lamp, awesome colour, super bright, and intended to be run on M57 (probe start) ballasts. Unfortunately a bit pricey but with the 6500K Iwasaki's tending to be good for up to 24 months I'm hoping some of that Iwasaki quality spills over into this new line as well.

BTW Iwasaki's (6500k's) tend to have the best bang for the buck as far as PAR (photosynthetically active radiation) is concerned. If you want wicked coral growth these lamps are hard to beat. But a lot of people find them aesthetically unpleasingly yellow requiring a lot of actinic to balance out and make white. I generally wasn't unhappy with the colours after using them for a while (in fact that was the only period I really had nice SPS was when I used those lamps, but I shouldn't really mention that as there were other factors involved..) I switched to 10k's last year as I wanted to try a bluer look to see how I would like it. Also generally speaking the bluer the bulb the more colour you get out of corals.

Also one last thought, electronic ballasts (a third option over probe-start and pulse-start). Generally speaking if you have electronic ballasts then you don't need to concern yourself about lamp selection since they will usually fire any kind of lamp (of the correct wattage). Only thing is, they tend to underdrive the lamps slightly. Some people claim to notice the lights are less bright (I can't say for myself, I've never tried electronic ballasts .. I did try one, but I broke it before I ever got to use it.. $150 paperweight.. more on this later). But it does result in longer lamp life, which is a good thing. It also probably means your power bill is few cents less than it would be otherwise. And they say there's less heat from the ballast. The only drawbacks I see to electronic ballasts are 1) the cost, they're more expensive and 2) depending on the brand, if you break them (i.e., there's a short in the wiring somewhere), they're dead. Icecap ballasts can supposedly be sent in to the factory and get repaired, but other companies don't do such things. The one electronic ballast I tried was a circuit board encased in epoxy. There's no way to fix such a beast, so I had to trash can it. What happened was I was trying to DIY a DE fixture, and accidentally contacted one of my lamp leads to ground (I thought I was being cautious by grounding the fixture.. I read afterwards the warning "Do not contact lamp leads to ground". So much for that.)

Anyhow hope some of this info helps.

PS/Edit. One last thought (I realize I said "one last thought" already so this is "and yet another one last thought"), there are also "HQI" ballasts but that's a whole other discussion (they are still considered pulse-starts generally). 150W and 250W HQI ballasts exist which tend to overdrive the lamps slightly, giving a brighter look overall. Despite what you may read, there's no such thing as a 400W HQI. PFO markets a ballast labelled as such, but it is a really a 430W SonAgro ballast (actually intended for Sodium lamps, not Metal Halide -- but will run pulse-start MH lamps just fine -- just overdriven slightly).

[howdy20012002]

I personally have coralvue electronic 400 W ballasts
thanks everyone for the info...greatly appreciated.
I am going to try a couple of bulbs off Ebay and see how they work.
thanks again,
Neal

[danny zubot]

Sorry to Hi-jack.

I need to replcae my MH bulb soon too. I have a plain old magnetic 400 watt balast, and I want the bluest bulb I can get for it. Any suggestions?

[Delphinus]

Hey Danny, just thought I'd throw in some more two bits.. "magnetic" actually doesn't tell you whether it's pulse-start or probe-start, as both are still the "transformer and capacitor" style (or "magnetic" if you prefer). Basically the way to tell them apart is what their ANSI code is (e.g., M59 or M135 or whatever) but failing that the other way to tell them apart is count the components: probe-starts are just the transformer and capacitor; pulse-starts are transformer, capacitor, and ignitor.

As for your question though, have you looked into a Radium?

[TheReefGeek]

If you have pulse starts, the Radiums would be nice

If you have probe start, XM 20Ks are nice, especially for their price.

[reeferaddict]

If you have pulse starts, the Radiums would be nice

If you have probe start, XM 20Ks are nice, especially for their price.

I'm running the XM 15K's and they're quite nice too... again for the price... I've also liked the Ushio 20K's and they fire on a non pulse ballast, but are more expensive... I've seen a lot of people having success with the Radiums though, and heard that they hold their PAR/spectrum far longer...

[reeferaddict]

Sorry to Hi-jack.

I need to replcae my MH bulb soon too. I have a plain old magnetic 400 watt balast, and I want the bluest bulb I can get for it. Any suggestions?

Ushio 20K I believe....

[fortheloveofcrabs]

An XM 20k should also be fine.

[danny zubot]

I don't really feel like taking the balast apart to see if it is pulse or probe. I also don't feel like paying for Radiums, though they are the best 20K I think.

If XM 20K's are good bulbs I think I'll try one, after all they are very reasonably priced, as said before.

[Delphinus]

There's no markings on the outside to indicate what ANSI rating the ballast is?

My guess is, you'd probably know if it was a pulse-start, they tend to be a tiny bit more cost-wise, so if it wasn't advertised as such when you bought it, it's probably a probe start.

Seems to me that every so often there's a sale on Radiums, that's basically the time to pick them up. I haven't really followed the prices of 400W lamps in the last few years since I haven't been using them. In the meantime try the XM's maybe. I *was* just about to suggest looking into the Venture bulbs, but never mind - I see they're about the same price as the Radiums nowadays (what the heck is up with that? There was a time they were *way* less expensive than the other lamps! I tried some Venture 250's last year coming off my Iwasaki's but coming off the Iwasaki's they were *way* too blue .. it like a discotheque in the basement kind of blue so to avoid culture shock I asked to exchange them for some XM's 10's instead).

[OCDP]

Ushio 20k's are super blue.. a good blue though. Brings out tons of colour in your corals.

Mind you, I only used the 150w HQI bulb...

[Aquattro]

I just replaced my 400w radiums with XM 10k, so far the look is nice. We'll see how they burn in and affect the corals, I'll post a bit down the road with an update.
The 9 month old radiums are going to the curb, but if anyone local wants them for testing and demonstration purposes, let me know...

[danny zubot]

Any chance you have before and after pics Brad?

[Aquattro]

Any chance you have before and after pics Brad?

I have before pics, so I can take a new shot and post it once I've run them for a week

[StirCrazy]

one thing to note, if you are talking probe and pulse start a probe ballast will not start a pulse bulb, but a pulse ballast will start either.

also a thing to not usaly a pulse start ballast is only 15 bucks or so more than a probe type, by spending the extra money one a pulse start ballastt you will extend your usefull bulb life as it is kinder to the bulb with this method of starting.

so spend the extra couple bucks and get a pulse start. (Oh and for thoes that might wonder an HQI ballast is a pulse start type also. a little more bucks again but the best bang for your tank out of the 3)

Steve

[reeferaddict]

one thing to note, if you are talking probe and pulse start a probe ballast will not start a pulse bulb, but a pulse ballast will start either.

also a thing to not usaly a pulse start ballast is only 15 bucks or so more than a probe type, by spending the extra money one a pulse start ballastt you will extend your usefull bulb life as it is kinder to the bulb with this method of starting.

so spend the extra couple bucks and get a pulse start. (Oh and for thoes that might wonder an HQI ballast is a pulse start type also. a little more bucks again but the best bang for your tank out of the 3)

Steve

Yup... you can run anything on an HQI ballast...

[Samw]

Here's some info for this old thread. I came across this article as I was Googling for Phoenix bulbs. It claims that the MH bulb that is being tested lost around 20% of its output by month 6. By month 12, it has lost 25%. By month 18, it has lost 30% of its output. By month 24, it has lost 34%. By month 27, it has lost 37%.

Light Output of the Phoenix 14,000K DE MH Bulb Over Time

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/ac/index.php

"The light output of the six Phoenix bulbs shows an initial decline over the first three to four months and then levels off at about 75% of their initial output. From these data I raise the question: “If a bulb is not replaced at six months, when it has lost 20% of its output, then why would we replace it at 12 months when its output has fallen only another 6%?” It may be more cost effective to plan the lamp number and placement based on 70-75% of the bulbs' initial output levels. "

"this bulb would appear to still maintain 70% of its output at 18 months, 66% at 24 months and 63% at 27 months of use. "


I have a question...
For MH bulbs, do u wait to change them once they burn out?
Or do they lose their wattage as they get older like PC?
If yes, how often should u change them...my 90 came with the used MH bulbs and I am not sure how old they are.
As well, is there really that much of a difference in the different brands of bulbs?
Thanks for the info
Neal

[Skimmerking]

I have a question...
For MH bulbs, do u wait to change them once they burn out?
Or do they lose their wattage as they get older like PC?
If yes, how often should u change them...my 90 came with the used MH bulbs and I am not sure how old they are.
As well, is there really that much of a difference in the different brands of bulbs?
Thanks for the info
Neal


Neal If you ahvea ots of really nice corals then I would switch them out and ensure that you are having the lighting period shorten or have some type of cover like screen to put over the tank with the stronger bulb will bleach some of the tissue in the corals like SPS. I know if you are going to a higher Kelvin bulb then you need to dull the light some how like using screen like I have already stated. If you are going from a lower kelvin bulbs liek 10,000k to a 14,000 or even a 20K then its not as important...

HTH

but I think that others have posted the same answer or better ones then mine....:wink:

[midgetwaiter]

Light Output of the Phoenix 14,000K DE MH Bulb Over Time

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/ac/index.php

"The light output of the six Phoenix bulbs shows an initial decline over the first three to four months and then levels off at about 75% of their initial output. From these data I raise the question: “If a bulb is not replaced at six months, when it has lost 20% of its output, then why would we replace it at 12 months when its output has fallen only another 6%?” It may be more cost effective to plan the lamp number and placement based on 70-75% of the bulbs' initial output levels. "

"this bulb would appear to still maintain 70% of its output at 18 months, 66% at 24 months and 63% at 27 months of use. "

I hate this article sooooo much. It's a nice bit of work but people are completely ignoring why the author managed to get the numbers he did and IMO are going to big in for a big surprise when they try and duplicate the results.

He's using Ice Cap ballasts, this makes for a substantial difference in the bulb's useful life. You may be able to get close to this kind of life with other electronic ballasts but you sure aren't going to get anywhere near it with an HQI. 6 to 9 months with a Pheonix or Aquaconnect on an HQI and it's hosed.

They really need to make this point in the article.

[StirCrazy]

with an HQI. 6 to 9 months with a Pheonix or Aquaconnect on an HQI and it's hosed.



What are you basing this off of?

Steve

[X-Treme]

So.......I'm running a Giessmann 250W DE fixture with an Icecap ballast and 13K Giessmann bulb and would like it a BIT bluer. I am coming up on the one year mark for the bulbs and am wondering if going to the Giessmann 14.5K is gonna be any noticeable difference or should I go to thier 20K or a different brand completely. I am just kinda scared that the 20K might be TOO blue. There are also 4 actinic T5s in the fixture.

[midgetwaiter]

What are you basing this off of?

Steve

Personal observation, you wouldn't have to look very far to find people that would agree with me though. I would love to do a test with the same bulb and different ballasts but I don't have the gear. Based on the published data for single test output on HQI vs electronic you can see that HQI ballasts drive the bulbs harder so it makes sense.